And yet people somehow Is confident he said when he explained wandavision was the first show to link directly with movies lol

There's a chunk of Agents of SHIELD (which begins roughly around season 5 and seems to end in the series finale) that - canonically within the show itself - diverges from the main timeline, but even at the end of that chunk, they return to the "original timeline", which is vague enough (after further divergence in season 7) that Marvel Studios can interpret it however they want going forward. As for how the snap fits into it, I see a couple of possibilities. Either it happens after the events of season 6, or it didn't seem to happen in that timeline, which means the divergence (circa season 5) happened before Doctor Strange made the prediction of there only being one way to win (out of the timelines he observed), and Thanos was somehow prevented from snapping his fingers. Seasons 1-4, I think can safely be regarded as MCU-616 canon until proven otherwise (and the redesign of a magic shapeshifting book that turned out to have been a copy is not strong evidence, neither is the fact that Laura Barton used to be Agent 19 at some point before Bobbi Morse was Mockingbird). 5-7 are divergent timelines, but the ending is ambiguous and the characters (except for Deke) could all be back. And anyone who died during the divergent chunk could still be alive. Which means there could be two Fitzes walking around. And Crusher Creel. And Ruby, I guess? Not that I think we'll ever see that.

Morse was never even referred to as Mockingbird, or as Agent 19. She went by the callsign "Bird" during one episode, but never "Mockingbird". Laura Barton was also not called Mockingbird, nor was she called Morse. So there isn't even overlap, let alone contradiction. Talbot is another character who could potentially be brought back if they resolve the divergent timeline. This would all make great fodder for the Loki series. I really want non-LMD Coulson to return and meet Loki again.

@@Swenglish here's the way I see it, with AOS you can just cop out and use the multiverse and/or branched timelines and it still exists within the MCU multiverse. Yea maybe the last couple of seasons didn't exactly line up with 616 MCU, but they were in a branched timeline. In the finale though when Fitz comes back he confirms that the timeline was restored and they were brought back to the sacred timeline.

@@cassianandor4103 That's kind of what I'm saying. Sort of. The branching timelines of seasons 5 and 7 are established clearly within the show. That's what those stories are about. When they're trying to prevent the world from cracking apart like in Robin's drawing, what they're trying to do is break a causality loop and create a branching timeline where it doesn't happen (or make sure the branch they're on is one where it doesn't). The complicated part is whether the timeline branched *before* that to set up the causality loop in the first place, which it very well could have, because of the whole sequence of events. I think it was in Loki that it was established that timelines branch from a sequence of events and not from a single point. That provides some inherent wiggle room where you don't have to pinpoint it. There's the drawing, the stuff going on with Hale, the stuff going on with Fitz, the stuff going on with Yo-Yo, with Quake, with Talbot, the stuff going on in the movies, etc., all that stuff could have contributed, and there doesn't need to be one singular point in time where it happened. It's just sort of vaguely around season 5. And then season 7 has them going back in time and explicitly creating a branching timeline, and as we've both stated, ends with Fitz bringing everyone (except for Deke) back to the original timeline, but given that there have been multiple branchings off at that point, it's not made explicit which timeline that refers to, and that means that Marvel Studios can interpret it however they want.

This demonstrates that the one-way nature of the references between the films and shows was not a result of a canon policy, but actual practical barriers. Barriers that no longer exist, since everything is now under one roof and being planned together.

They just don't want to accept it. I hope Kevin Feige reconfirms them again, but sadly I don't think it will happen.

But if they're canon, why isn't it on the timeline like Agent Carter? And the events of the series were also not mentioned in the MCU timeline book

​@@DragunovWayneBecause those things were never intended to be complete canon guides.

@@PenneySoundsAlso just logistically it'd be hard to put them in the D+ timeline order because of how closely AOS follows the movies (at least in the first handful of seasons). For instance, 1x01-1x16 take place before Winter Soldier, then 1x17-1x22 afterwards - how do you put partial seasons in the timeline? And while the movies don't have super explicit references to the show, there are some, like how the Mousehole Fury uses in Winter Soldier was a Fitz invention, or how the helicarriers in Age of Ultron were SHIELD's doing, to say nothing of the two-way tie-ins AOS has to the Netflix shows. There's also the director of Wandavision who said that while they didn't use the same design for the Darkhold as AOS because he didn't realize AOS had already used the Darkhold, it's the same book. It'd be nice if we could get AOS characters into the movies, but I hate how people keep acting like AOS isn't canon when it clearly is. Especially when they claim that it contradicts the canon of the wider MCU, when it never does.

@@laurelf.2057 Yeah, to go in the timeline, AOS would nearly have to be episode-by-episode, or at least broken into blocks. It's bad enough that the Defenders shows, and now Loki and What If, have to be broken up into seasons to go on the list.

The fact that the shows were cancelled by the time Endgame came out illustrates why those cameos were impossible. Endgame had been filming for a year by the time Iron Fist was cancelled, and was almost ready for release by the time the last season of Jessica Jones released. There was just no way to film a cameo in 2017 to release in 2019, because they'd have no way of knowing where the shows would be at in another 2 years. Characters could have died in that time, or become enemies with each other, or been recast, or the shows could have been cancelled, which is what ended up happening. The shows and movies were produced on far too different of a timescale to make things like that feasible.

The title is being sarcastic to mock the people who do say that

Whenever someone puts uppercase and lowercase letters like that it's sarcasm font. The title is sarcastic bro.

​@@schizofredericcompositionsDon't post lies on my channel

@@schizofredericcompositions It may be "common knowledge" among people who get their information from clickbait websites and don't know how to fact check, but it's not true. The shows were canon since they started and that has never changed. Don't post misinformation on my channel, or you won't be posting on my channel at all. Final warning.

Multiverse of Madness states that the Darkhold is a copy of the writings in a temple. If there can be one copy, why not many?

You know that thing where you mock what someone says by repeating it in a silly voice? Well on the internet we do that by typing it in alternating upper and lower case. "kEvIn FeIgE sAyS mArVeL tElEvIsIoN iSn'T cAnOn! Herp derpy derp!"

Right, because the previous shows are canon, and the new shows are portraying the same characters later on in their lives.

Untrue. Completely made up clickbait conspiracy theories.

@@PenneySounds It isn’t a conspiracy. The divide between TV and Movies is what lead to Inhumans being made into a TV show. Ike Perlmutter took the property with him when he left

Feige decided he didn't want an Inhumans film so Loeb made a series. Same thing happened to Runaways. These things happen. They only just recently decided to make Armor Wars a film instead of a series. You're putting significance on it that isn't there.

@@PenneySounds The studios were made separate. That’s a fact. I’m not plucking it out of my arse. That’s why when Marvel Studios got control of the TV stuff again they cancelled everything from the Netflix shows to The Runaways

The studios were always separate divisions of Marvel. Now Marvel Studios owns all the Marvel Television material, so they're not separate anymore.

It is canon

@@PenneySounds I rather pretend it's not.

That's going to get harder as more and more of their characters return

@@PenneySounds I’ll just quit marvel. It’s a ruined franchise.

Ok bye

It makes perfect sense that they are canon, because they are. Repeating a wrong thing doesn't make it stop being wrong. all the shows are canon. You are literally commenting on a video of Feige saying they are. Get over it.

@@PenneySounds I really want them to be canon in the Mcu 616 and it hurts me a lot that they are not since I cannot ignore the continuity errors that these series have in the Mcu 616, such as Marvel's Runaways They contradict the time travel of the Mcu 616 .

They ARE MCU 616. They ARE canon.

@@PenneySounds Nop.

You are not a higher authority on canon than Kevin Feige. Just because you perceive there to be some small contradiction doesn't mean it's not canon. One-off contradictions in a broadly consistent universe do not make things non-canon. Otherwise Homecoming wouldn't be canon either.

You just blocked me on Facebook for pointing out the facts there. You're not going to do any better here. If you want to claim there was a change to the canonicity of these shows, the burden of proof is on YOU to provide official statements that the policy has changed, not on me to provide more statements reiterating what was already said. You have no evidence. The shows are canon until Marvel says they're not.

John Love here is Feige himself directly saying AoS is MCU canon, so Idk what context was removed that you're referring to lol. And has he ever since walked back on these statements? He has not, it's as simple as that. Show comes out, Feige recognizes show as canon, and has since never said the show is no longer canon.

These people don't get that once it's established as canon, it's canon until proved otherwise. They seem to think the canon status must be continually reiterated or else it will... expire I guess? Very bizarre reasoning.

Nope. THIS is the context you need to understand why they're canon. The dissolving of Marvel TV means nothing to the canon. To the date Kevin Feige has never said otherwise. Official statements remains official until otherwise stated. No one ever "confirmed" that Agents of SHIELD it always was another timeline. Dude, even in 'The Wakanda Files' is acknowledged Coulson's resurrection. The actors' interviews doesn't really matter compared to Kevin Feige (some of them think they're canon, others that they're not, and other that they don't know). Yes, Kevin Feige hasn't re-acknowledged the shows recently, but that doesn't mean that they're no longer canon. SHIELD back in public, as depicted in AoS, has been actually acknowledged in Marvel Studios' productions (Far From Home+The Falcon and The Winter Soldier+Ms. Marvel). But the acknowledgements on films has never been a rule to be canon anyway.

I don't know what more acknowledgement the shows need than having characters like Daredevil and Kingpin returning.