All About Canoe Trim. Why I add an extra seat.

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Күн бұрын

All about canoe trim. I explain why I add an extra seat to my canoe to improve the canoe's trim.
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Any opinions expressed in this video are mine and mine alone and are not related to my employer or any other organization or individual. I have not been paid to make this video or to endorse a product. If I am ever paid for an endorsement or provided other compensation, I will state it clearly in the video. Any advice or demonstration I provide is just advice. The viewer should take responsibility for their own actions, follow any manufacturers warnings and directions and act safely and responsibly when travelling in the backcountry.

Пікірлер: 90

@mflacke 3 ай бұрын

Fun Canoe geekout stuff is too rare on KZfaq. Even my favorite Canadian canoe youtubers don't talk a lot of gear geek speak. I love larger tandems for there capacity and shallow river abilities for solo. My solo boats draw more water and drag more frequently. I always have put my third seat in by replacing the stern thwart and install the seat as close to the center as I can. In a few cases even removed the yoke and added another thwart, a 60L Barrel width behind the bow seat. This would open the center for walking around while poling. Like Swift does there Combis. But, I see an advantage in loading your canoe with gear by having the stern seat further away and installing the seat where you did. I might consider trying this. A 2 piece 280cm double blade always in my boat for the long stretch's or sprints to camp. Great video!

@KevinOutdoors 3 ай бұрын

Thanks so much. I do like to nerd out on gear and thought I would share what works for me. Hopefully others find it useful.

@raymondcava4669 Ай бұрын

Great idea Kevin , I like the seat platform it’s wide enough you can sit right next to the gunnels for ease of paddling over long distances. I love paddling along the shore checking out the bottom for anything I can see. Would there be enough space to have oversize wingnuts on the bottom side of the bolts that hold the seat in place. Big wing Nutz for maximum leverage in order to take out either of the bow seats, in order to better fit packs on trips.And you wouldn’t have to have tools. Happy paddling🎉

@mikeodonovan7325 11 ай бұрын

everything you said is 100 per cent true specially i cant kneel bit to save my life makes perfect sense again sir i am indebted to you slick video and a rock of knowledge thanks for sharing it will help a tonne of canoers

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks so much Mike. Yes, kneeling isn't the answer for everyone. I am only embarrassed it took me this long to figure this out :)

@mikeodonovan7325 11 ай бұрын

same here kevin first time ive ever heard anyone admit it salute sir classssssssssssss

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks, I think this is what KZfaq is for :)@@mikeodonovan7325

@dwrivers47 10 ай бұрын

This is a brilliant idea, makes so much sense. Thanks Kevin 😊

@KevinOutdoors 10 ай бұрын

Thanks so much, I hope it helps people.

@EmB-ix9tt 4 ай бұрын

Another consideration - my husband has difficulty kneel-paddling solo from the bow seat reversed due to having size 13 feet! His footwear won’t fit under the seat very well and don’t tuck under body neatly. Nice work modifying your boats to something that works for you!

@KevinOutdoors 4 ай бұрын

Absolutely, I had a buddy who had small feet but did a lot of white water in his tripping boat and was concerned his feet might get trapped under the seat if he dumped. I think he raised the seat to accomodate.

@p.istaker8862 Ай бұрын

I prefer to use a kneeling thwart. Takes up less space. Luckily don't have any issues with kneeling.

@KevinOutdoors Ай бұрын

Kneeling thwarts work great.

@ktownc936 11 ай бұрын

Ok nice, i understand it gives you a little better center on the boat. A tip my dad came up with while we were brain storming a couple years back on what to use solo as counter weight if A) pack wasn't heavy enough or B) you wanted to day trip without your barrel/pack is to use a coleman 5 gallon water bag in the bow solo. Old timers said rocks, i used a dry bag filled with water but pops nailed it. Just a tip thats helped me out. Cheers.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

The issue I found was that even on longer trips with heavy packs I still wasn't getting proper trim. And the bigger the bag the harder it is to load it more forward. :) A water bag or other ballast is something I have done before and it works on a day trip.

@gordthompson4664 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to explain. Nice graphics, too! I thought that it might be weight distribution, or maybe extra seat surface to let you adjust your seating position during a long day of paddling. But then, why not just go full Red Green and put a recliner in there. 😂 All the best!

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

LOL, yeah there are some pretty elaborate (Red Green style) seat designs these days. Full back, etc. I still prefer a simple flat seat with bootlace or webbing. Take care.

@mattvaandering 11 ай бұрын

this was a great conversation for us paddling nerds. it's worth mentioning that many canoe manufacturers mount the seats to the hull instead of hanging them from the gunnels so its not a souris river thing. I believe that Nova Craft also rivets some of their seats as well. They are riveted to the gunnels instead of the hull, but still they would be extremely difficult to adjust. I think hanging seats are the best design for customizing the seating arrangements...even if it slightly compromises the overall rigidity of the boat.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Great comments, thanks!

@ripplesandleaves 10 ай бұрын

Great video! I have the same Novacraft 16' prospector, and similar discomfort kneeling, so this really resonated with me. I was having the same challenges with wind, and also found that when trimmed well, the boat was great in many conditions, although maybe not the speediest, but that's OK. I love your approach! I have had some success with knee pads, and sitting on a stuff sack. I am still experimenting what to put in the stuff sack so it would be light, but hold it's shape to help support my butt. I had thought about a saddle, but many folks helped me understand why that's not really what I want. I was considering a kneeling thwart, and I may still go that direction. (I'm Andrea Ross)

@KevinOutdoors 10 ай бұрын

Nice to see your comments here Andrea. I figure you just gotta do what you gotta do. If knee pain or even discomfort is a thing then a kneeling thwart or an extra seat like I did is the way to go.

@lyngrahamedaniel9917 11 ай бұрын

Great solution I will give it a crack. I used your dehydrated recipes on the Overland Track in Tasmania, the Lasagne was brilliant. We used the Reflextix pouch method. 👍👍

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback on the recipes. I love getting those comments from different places around the world! All the best!

@twobehappy67 11 ай бұрын

So well explained!!! Thanks!!

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks, that's my goal :)

@CanoehoundAdventures 11 ай бұрын

Makes 100% sense!!!.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Dennis.

@Winter8R1 11 ай бұрын

Well explained solution Kevin! Thanks for sharing

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

You bet, thanks!

@allanthompson9856 11 ай бұрын

Great graphics, much appreciated.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks. Glad you like them!

@PinetreeLine 11 ай бұрын

Great information and makes a lot of sense Kevin. Thanks a lot!

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

You are welcome. Thanks for watching.

@brianj9635 11 ай бұрын

makes good sense and explained with reason and clarity - thank yee

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Much appreciated!

@sinfonianbarelytone9191 11 ай бұрын

Great idea! Just finished a week of paddling with the scouts. The senior scouts outweighed the juniors by 100 pounds. Gear only helped so much. We managed.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Those are tough situations to trim a canoe. I trust they had fun anyway. I was in scouts for many years and also a cub scout leader.

@backwaterwoods 11 ай бұрын

Great solution Kevin, I might do that with mine!

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks. If you have issues with the boat getting off track in wind gusts, this will solve your issues. Good luck!

@backwaterwoods 11 ай бұрын

@@KevinOutdoors thanks!

@kevinharding2099 11 ай бұрын

Excellent video: clear, concise, sensible, and smart. I like your solution. For years I had a solo wooden canoe that was designed for tripping (that I no longer do) so the seat was not in the center. I dealt with the trim problem by using a 40 lb sash weight in the bow - not an ideal solution. A long time ago Mad River Canoe manufactured an asymmetrical canoe designed for husband and wife that helped with the common difference in weight - it worked, but the boat didn’t sell well. It certainly makes sense to customize your canoe for your own use.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comments. I think this is a more common problem than I thought. I also used to carry a water bag for ballast, it is simple but takes time if you are doing a lot of portages.

@matte-d349 10 ай бұрын

Another advantage of the rear-facing yoke on boats with a thwart between the stern seat and the yoke, it gives you the thwart to grab/hold during portages instead of just the gunwales. Anything that allows you to change up your position subtly during long portages is a good thing in my book!

@KevinOutdoors 10 ай бұрын

It certainly does.

@chriss.4258 11 ай бұрын

Excellent video love it I’ve been contemplating a solo boat for a couple of years. I’ve tried out a few different brands just don’t paddle enough to really justify the cost. I currently own a Souris River Quantico 17 and absolutely love it. I’ve done the remove the crossbar things and sit in the bow backwards, but really hate doing that. I might just look and see if this is something I could do to my beauty.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Paddling a 17' canoe solo will be a bit of a challenge but if that is what you have then adding another seat in the right place is likely your best option.

@keironspence1197 10 ай бұрын

Hi Kevin, thanks for putting up this video. I will be installing a third seat in my Quetico 16 as well. I looked at the London Paddle website - you chose the Center webbed seat? Do you remember what hanging kit you used? Thanks.

@KevinOutdoors 10 ай бұрын

I don't think I actually have the center seat in my Souris river but I did get it in my Nova Craft. I would recommend the center seat it is a little wider and allows you to sit closer to the gunwale. I used Kit A with 3&1/4" and 3&5/8" spacers. This is the lowest hanging option to keep the center of gravity low and it came out pretty level in my boat. You can always trim the spacers if you need to. Good luck!

@cretan911 5 ай бұрын

Neat

@KevinOutdoors 5 ай бұрын

👍

@leojoseph9090 7 ай бұрын

Love your videos. Question, why not just replace the thwart in front of the stern seat with another seat? I was considering this for my esquif 16 prospector. Also, instead of installing a seat behind the bow seat, what are your thoughts on using a drop in canoe seat?

@KevinOutdoors 6 ай бұрын

I could do that and it would probably work just fine but hanging seats don't provide the stability that a thwart does. A drop in seat would also work but I find those to be less comfortable and they often force you to sit in the middle (there are different models) when I rather sit to the side I am paddling on. I am not saying this is how everyone should do it, I am sure there are other options but this works for me.

@Evan_Le5 11 ай бұрын

Hey Kevin, not sure if I missed it but why not just add a sliding seat? I have to say it seems a tad funny, I would be curious to see a better view of the trim once you’re loaded up. I’ve also heard yoke direction is a regional thing, Quebec seems to always face the stern

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

I have never seen a sliding seat that would accomplish this. The seats tend to be for moving the bow paddler forward (I think they presume a smaller bow paddler), I need to move the weight in the other direction, usually there is a brace or something behind the seat preventing you from sitting in the other direction. Interesting, Esquif does seem to mount their yokes facing the stern.

@Evan_Le5 11 ай бұрын

@@KevinOutdoors just gotta set the sliding seat up so that when it’s moved towards the bow its set for tandem and when you slide it back it’s set for solo. You can also adjust the angle of the seat so it works well both ways. We have a Vertige X that this works especially well for. Alternatively you can just pack weight further to the stern when solo to adjust the trim. If you’re really having trouble fill a bag with water to add more weight(a Paul Mason trick, he also has some neat illustrations on trim setup). Also picking the right model when purchasing canoes can help avoid the problem you mentioned of having thwarts in the way. For example if I know I would paddle solo and tandem I(as an Esquif lover) would aim for a Prospecteur vs a Canyon which has a thwart in the way.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

If there are any after market sliding seats out there they certainly are rare. This solves the issue with a $100 kit 4 holes and bolts. :)

@Evan_Le5 11 ай бұрын

@@KevinOutdoors most I’ve seen are DIY since they’re not too tricky to build and saves you weight, space, and maybe some funny looks;) regardless whatever craft gets you out there is always the best!

@NikonF5user 11 ай бұрын

A sliding seat would cost more and likely weigh more than having another fixed seat...

@darrinwhite1820 11 ай бұрын

Great video Kevin. Did you find the little extra weight changed the balance for your yoke? Do you have to do anything to counteract that?

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

I think it did a little, still with ropes tied to both the bow and stern during portages it was only slightly noticeable.

@jwpercy 12 күн бұрын

Does this change the balance point appreciably in terms of the yoke and portaging with the extra weight of the third seat as well as its relative position? I love the idea of being closer to centre when solo.

@KevinOutdoors 12 күн бұрын

I don't really notice a change in where the balance point is. It must change but not enough to really make a difference.

@jwpercy 12 күн бұрын

@@KevinOutdoors Thanks Kevin!

@foryrs 11 ай бұрын

This seems like an excellent solution to a common problem. I am curious to know if you find any issues paddling in a slightly wider part of the boat? Have you tried paddling more to the center of the boat with a double blade and if so, was that problematic? Thanks for yet another informative video as always.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

I've had no issues at all paddling in the new position. I ordered a 'center seat' that is wider and allows me to sit close to the gunwales. I do have a kayak paddle but haven't yet tried it with any of my canoes. In the distant past I have taken kayaking courses and was pretty proficient with a kayak. I intend to do some testing to see how fast I paddle with either but I never seem to get around to it. But I am currently of the mindset that I probably go just as fast on long trips with a canoe paddle as I would with a double blade. A solid cruising speed that I can maintain (for hours) with no wind is ~6km/hr as measured with my GPS. I know many have gone to the double blade and that's probably fine for the new 'pack boats which are narrower. But I feel they would problematic to paddle a wide canoe. Someday I'll try and do some measured testing and that will probably make an interesting video.

@foryrs 11 ай бұрын

It would make an interesting video as my perception has always been that I’m much faster with a double blade. I normally bring a double blade as a backup paddle and use it when doing large crossing or even just lake travel, based on my mindset that it is a faster method. My favorite thing about your channel is that you challenge assumptions with actual data so I would certainly be interested in the comparison. If there is no, or little difference in speed I would probably just stick with a canoe paddle.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

It is something I am considering for sure. I need to figure out the best way to apply the same effort to both methods, that's the tricky part.@@foryrs

@WaterWalker16 11 ай бұрын

Hey Kevin I couldn't tell in the video but did you attached the third seat in your Souris River to the gunwale using the Nova Craft method of attachment?

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

I did. The Souris River gunwales are a little more narrow than the Nova Craft but it worked fine. I avoided a tech explanation of how I did this but I have had a surprising amount of questions about how I did this. Let me know if you think a video would be beneficial.

@WaterWalker16 11 ай бұрын

@@KevinOutdoors I'd be a fan of that. Actually have both canoes. A Nova Craft prospector that I bought back in 1988 made of Kevlar Cap and a Souris River prospector that I picked up in Atikokan back a few years ago. I use the kneeling thwart in my Nova Craft. It moves you ahead about 6 inches closer to centre. I tried it in my Souris River by exchanging it in with their bowed aluminum thwart but found it sits too low and makes loading a pack or food barrel difficult to try and get under it. It just tightens the room you have available. But yeah I think it would be of benefit for those of use interested. Thanks.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

Awesome, thanks for the comments.@@WaterWalker16

@misterlusk 11 ай бұрын

Did you get the 3rd seat for the Quetico direct from Souris River? I have the same boat and was hoping to put a 3rd seat in.

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

No, they don't sell hanging seats at all anymore. I contacted them but they were reluctant to help. It is actually a Nova Craft seat, they sell both a webbed version and a bootlace version. I believe I ordered from London Paddles. You need to order the seat and the drop kit seperately.

@misterlusk 11 ай бұрын

@@KevinOutdoors Awesome. Thanks.

@KA-pq3yz 11 ай бұрын

😂 now I know why

@KevinOutdoors 11 ай бұрын

You do 😉

@josephluptak299 3 ай бұрын

Why not get a dedicated solo canoe (seat in the middle)?

@KevinOutdoors 3 ай бұрын

Good question and I recognize there is a new trend for solo boats happening. I tend to do long trips ~2 weeks in length and often on big water. I really prefer the size of a regular 16' boat for the capacity and the stability it offers. Plus a 16' boat can easily be used tandem style.

@josephluptak299 3 ай бұрын

I tend to like long canoes. I actually just reserved a Quetico 18.5 with plans to use it as a solo too (even though it is large). I have a dedicated solo (Wenonah Encounter), which I love, but it doesn’t help me out when I go with a partner(s).

@josephluptak299 3 ай бұрын

And I would have never thought to reverse the yoke to optimize in/out of portages… Good advice Kevin

@KevinOutdoors 3 ай бұрын

@@josephluptak299 We have a Quetico 18.5. We used it for many years taking our kids on trips. I would only recommend paddling it tandem and with a lot of gear. That boat is a real pig in the water but stable and is OK when you get it up to speed. They are so buoyant that they are extremely difficult to paddle unloaded even in a light breeze. It was very difficult to manage in situations where we made camp and wanted to go out fishing without gear in the boat, even a slight breeze blows you all over the lake. I don't think it is a reasonable boat to paddle solo. Just some friendly advice.

@josephluptak299 3 ай бұрын

I get your point about using a Quetico 18.5 as a solo canoe, but a pig… oh my… is there a different 3 seater you prefer? I was going to trade in my Encounter to help cover the cost the Quetico, but I’ll need to figure something else out.