Brilliant review. Really appreciate how you covered where it sits in the context of it's updates/competitors.

Excellent, thoughtful video which confirms my purchase decision. My P64 with the Mizen burrs arrives in late July, and I can hardly wait. I was drawn to it based on reviews, including yours, as well as the quality, consistency, and burr selection.

Thanks! Mine is on order (based on you earlier review and others). Looking forward to it.

I’ve had a P100 for 7 months. It’s been a perfect experience and consider it my end game grinder.

Finally received our P64 a few days ago after waiting a year - totally worth the wait! We love the build quality, the quiet grind and the Mizen burrs. So glad to hear you're still happy with your P64 after a year - it's a little scary to spend that much money for a grinder, especially without trying it first! Thank you for your in-depth reviews of coffee equipment and helping us make up our minds. :)

Thanks for a really informative video. Great work.

Great video thank you!

Good stuff man. Thank you.

Thanks for posting an update. Glad to hear it’s still your grinder of choice. I still plan to get one as well. Would be cool if they started offering it in white. Would match your other equipment as well

Watched this video and the initial a bunch of times. The ones about the df family too. Decided to pull the trigger on the P64. Life changing grinder. This is the end of the line for me. Very happy with it, thank you for the follow up video

greetings. so happy when friday rolls around and we get a new video from you! really, really, really appreciate it. home baristas have such little to go on in terms of bouncing ideas off folks (not many understand the pursuit) so it's great to have such thoughtful videos to help navigate this journey. i have been thinking about upgrading my mahlkonig k30 vario (i did put in SSP HU burrs 18 months ago and love them) but my only real issue is grind retention and wondering if i'm missing something due to its age. since i make my wife her coffee first, that gives me fairly "new" grinds to work with. however, it is 7 yrs old and so i just often wonder. i have checked the alignment and it is almost perfect. i drink tim wendelboe coffees exclusively and only drink straight shots. i need a mix of body and clarity. i own a lagon mini for travel and love it. the shots on it are not as complex as the mahlkonig but they are cool in their own way. so the lagom p64 is at the top of the list as for as upgrades. the EG-1 is too but the cost is hard to swallow. my issue is that i absolutely love the shots i am making already and have no way of knowing if i could really gain that much with a new grinder. just wondering if you have any recs, sorry for long comment.

Good update. I’m glad you still give it high praise. I’m in the market and still deciding - the P64 is the current front runner. Thanks for your update.

I was getting curious if we were going to receive a P64 update video soon and here we are! I know in this video you said the P64 is the last grinder you’ll ever buy (hopefully) but I have to ask if you have an itch for the P100.

Thank you for the video.

Can’t wait for the P64 vs Zerno comparisons

Thank you my friend.

I also have a one year old p64 with MPs and Mizen, OO did fix the issue, and they started shipping the Mizen with very well made and easy to install shims (rings). For me this fixed the issue and i can easily choke my Decent even with blooming profiles and still not too close to chirp

This very closely tracks with how feel about my P64 (minus having constantly changing loaners in my kitchen). In summary still real happy with the purchase one year later.

A cool future video would be to go back to the Niche Zero and LM Mini for a week or so and share the experience. One benefit is that you have tons of old b-roll! Of course, the video could feature reminiscing. The big question is if going back is easy and comfortable, or do you give up too much. Should you have upgraded much sooner, or do you question if a less coffee obsessed person should have upgraded at all? FWIW, I’m still running a Zero/Mini combo. I might like a cleaner, flat burr grinder, but I don’t know that I would do a GS3.

New owner of the P64 the latest version with versa cup and the safety zero position and SSP MP, love its workflow and getting great cup consistency with my pour-overs. Best of all, the grind settings stay true and never loosens up

I have a p64. That’s pretty much a spot on assessment

This video finally pushed me over the edge and I’m currently waiting on my P64 with HU burrs. I’ve never been super interested in single dosing, but that seems to be where all the investment and development has been in the home market. I think the build quality and reliability, without any needing for modding finally sold me.

I would add two other quirks or hang ups I have w/ the P64, both of which I think you have previously mentioned. While the retention is low, I find myself having to smack my hand on the top of the grinder to create a bellow effect to get all of the coffee grinds out. Secondly, I find it almost impossible to use the P64 for a dark roast because it will easily clog up entirely. It's best suited for medium to light roasts. However, coming from the Niche, the overall consistency of the P64 is significantly better and getting back to a setting after cleaning or switching settings is also way more consistent than the Niche.

I have a p64 with ssp cast installed. Thinking about a 2nd 64mm grinder to pair with it. Df64v or sculptor 64s you reckon? I will either put the HU or MP in the other one. Or maybe ode brew burr..

I'm a owner of a June 2022 batch P64 (new design). The grinder oozes quality and has an amazing finish. Working with it is a real joy. The Chinese knock-off 64mm grinders may deliver the same grind quality but i just can't bother anymore with all the downsides those grinders come with. I found the little dosing cup cute, but it doesn't really distribute the droplets properly when shaking up the beans. Switched to a bigger (plastic) dosing cup and hardly have any beans sticking to the popcorn

Your burr tic point might have changed from putting it back together after cleaning if it wasn't cleaned out perfectly a fragment might have thrown off the alignment, but also, I found rotating the upper burr carrier in a different orientation (I think there's 2 ways it can fit?) gave me a worse tic noise to burr lock point (indicating potentially worse alignment) I swapped it back to the original orientation (easy enough to do!) and then it was only 20 microns or 2 tic marks to go from tic noise to burr lock! which is pretty good!

I have narrowed down my 'last' grinder purchase down to the P64, Zerno Z1 or the Niche Duo. I am leaning towards a 64 mm grinder because I already have 4 sets of 64 mm burrs. And 64 mm seems to be that sweet spot for price and performance. I don't know if I want to spend the money on 83 mm burrs. I prefer the Zerno because it supports blind burrs out of the box, but I like the way the P64 looks. And I have a soft spot for Niche cause I had a good run with the Zero.

When you have to grasp for "negatives" like 1-2 beans sometimes get stuck on the hopper that you have to push down, you know it's as close as practicable to the perfect grinder. The P64 for me 1+ years out is still a beautiful design aesthetically and functionally. I love the look, the feel, and how smoothly and quietly it operates. My only doubt about whether this is truly the perfect grinder is I don't know how the taste in cup compares with the handful of even higher-end flat burr grinders with significantly larger burrs.

Great video! Seems like a very good grinder if your'e willing to put up with the price.

I thought they quickly realized the early / first batches of the Mizen burrs were too short for the older model of P64, I got an email asking me to confirm how I wanted to handle the issue. They offered a Refund, A precise metal shim you install under the burrs to give it a bit more height, OR the option of waiting for the next batch of Mizen burrs once they increased the height. I ended up getting both the Shimmed and updated version, and BOTH worked very nicely and had the same 20 micron alignment in my rudimentary testing. It's funny SSP with their similar Cast burrs also had a similar issue with the first batch. I much prefer the Mizen burrs over the SSP cast burrs in 64mm. For me Mizens are higher clarity, nicely balanced all purpose burrs, I'm not finding tons of body, but I do notice a sweetness with them, and a very clean aftertaste. SSP cast I thought didn't have enough clarity and were kinda bitter like an cheap conical burr profile, but others seem to like them a lot. I had TWO SSP cast burr sets in two different grinders as well! Yes for some reason I buy two of everything :D

I've had mine since shortly after their release, and like you, it's my end-game grinder. For me, it's close to perfect. The only gripe I have is the portafilter forks, which are angled such that they allow some PF handles to vibrate free from the grinder, resulting in a big mess of grinds on the counter. If the PF handle is lower than the basket (horizontally), it will vibrate to messy freedom. But otherwise, I love this grinder to bits. Such a well made, quality item.

I’ve had my P64 since last April and I agree with everything. I haven’t checked my zero point as I stay in the same adjustment for espresso, it’s so easy to jump to a pour over and cold brew size then back to espresso love it. The beans do get stuck on top with rdt but honestly doesn’t bother me, I’ve only cleaned it twice and the amount of grinds in the burr chamber was laughable. Love this thing, also.. new price is $1500 wow, got mine for $1800😮‍💨

I cant emphasize enough the build quality from option-o. i have had a mini for almost 2 years now and it looks just as good as it did when I pulled it out of the box!

Hi there, To all p64 owners, do you guys align your burrs with shims? The reason for this i cant choke my machine with the ssp lab sweet, even when the burrs nearly touching. Any recommendations?

I own one of the titan grinders that doesn't have any of the issues you mention in the vid. That said, it's ridiculously big, heavy, expensive and currently no longer on sale. So regardless I think the P64 is still a great choice consider the points you made.

Pro tip for anyone with sticky beans after rdt. I've had them stick both on the anti popcorn lid, and on the internal sloped side. When on the sloped side it's an even bigger problem, as you can't see them or nudge them even if you do. I just took an allen key and removed the anti popcorn lid. Now they never really stick anywhere, and I can just check to see if any are there, and push them if I need to. Nothing really popcorns out, but after I pour in my beans, I just leave the cup in the chute to block anything just in case

I recently got myself DF83 v2 (italmil burrs), and after using it for 4 months I am really quite happy with it. Don't see myself upgrading from it for a long while, tbh. :) Great video as always

Hey there. A friend of mine has gotten his P64 about a week ago and has since struggled with espresso that always have bitterness. He used two separat beans to test (both light-medium roast) and even the shot time is on the faster side. Side by side with his old grinder, the previous one gave a much more acidic and balanced cup despite being a fraction of the price. He uses filtered water and the same setup as before. The grinder is not really seasoned yet but still. It should be to extract some good espresso from the getgo. Any tips or ideas on what could cause that?

I have one and share same experience. On this burrs zero point, i notice mine could change slightly after cleaning the burrs. In one case, issue was some fines around the bearing. Other than that: love the grinder and dont want to change

Have you used or plan to use a Zerno Z1? Really curious to get your thoughts on that one!

I believe they addressed those mizzer burr issues, they started selling them with easy install shims but then they came out with a 2nd gen burr set. I don’t know when the 2nd gen came out so I am curious if maybe you just had the first and that’s why you had those shimming issues?

the bottle line for taste and best grinder on the market to day is the ek`43 hands down

In regards to SSP MP, in pour overs, if you think you’ll get low body and texture with medium to dark roasts, I assure you you won’t after you just decrease the water to bean ratio. The strength will be highlighted with the body being full after increasing the coffee amount by a small amount In light roast, definitely prefer high clarity and longer coffee to water ratios

i own lagom p64 previous version without versa cup almost 2 years. I have HU burrs and it is doing very well for espresso even for filter. I am just thinking about buying mp or brew burrs for better filter cups. i dont think there is other grinder out there in this price to do both espresso and filter very well. You cant go wrong with lagom p64...

It's crazy how yesterday I thought it would be about time there came a year after update 😂 at some point I might get this grinder if there's no new(er) shiny released by that time

Is it hard to recalibrate if you change beans?

Could you give a more detailed review (maybe it’s own video) of the Mizen burrs?

what's the difference between p64 and p100? Does the bigger flat burrs make a difference?

Did you get the burr version that required the shim? The first run were too thin. I have the second version of the p64 and order the Mizen back in November and have yet to receive them. I held off for the correct size but its getting a bit annoying. Hopefully it’s worth the wait.

I might be wrong, but they've been pretty upfront about tons of quality issues with mizen burr. I'm still waiting for my set lol. I wouldn't be shocked if that has something to do with your issue but that would annoy the crap out of me. I own a p64 in part for its stellar alignment and having to shim with my mizen will not be cool.

I'd love to hear your thoughts compared to the P100

Phew! I was a bit hesitant to watch this as I’ve recently placed an order for a P64 (fingers crossed for July delivery). I think hearing about the solid build quality, it’s ability to grind for pour over / espresso and lastly the adjustable RPM (with no reports on stalling) are the reasons that drew me to the grinder.. granted it’s expensive but I’m justifying it as the end game grinder :) thanks again for the update!!

Has anyone found a dosing cup alternative or an alternative portafilter fork for the P64 -- so other dosing cups can fit? It is the one thing that I dislike the most about the P64 -- the dosing cup feels clunky and heavy, yet fragile (dents easily) at the same time. There are 3D printed adapter covers for the portafilter forks, but it's not aesthetically pleasing... Any other solutions out there?

There is always that Kafatek upgrade though…. ;) Ever going to try it?

Nowhere near enough content covering long term impressions of coffee gear! Always have loved the look/workflow of the P64

I have a P100 and I have tried RDT with it a few times, but it works better without it. With the knocker this is almost no retention without RDT.

I’d been wanting to get a P64 for >1 yr now but it’s seemingly never available, pre-order only up to six months out. That’s ridiculous. So have instead been saving up towards, perhaps, a Weber EG-1 and continuing with the trusty C40 in meantime. Maybe won’t ultimately bother buying a powered grinder.

I chose the P64 because similar to the Niche, it was always the standard. Every other grinder wants to be the P64. Coming from the newer version of the DF64 the Lagom is better. Is it 4-5x worth the cost? No, but i'm one of those people who are willing to pay the premium.

My P64 arrived a week ago with mizen burrs installed. What ive noticed is whenever i grind coffee beans and i move my grind in finer settings i hear that light sound like burrs touching but few people from the community of P64 told me that it is because of the coffee and not the burrs touching,

I sentenced I learned never to say ever again 😂 First I thought the Major was the last grinder I ever buy, but then I tried the coffee from the K30 so I had to replaced it with that, but then I wanted to SD so replaced it with a K10PB, but I was not satisfied with the cup and all the hype with EK43 started to see the light so I got that instead. Then after some time SD grinders started to appear on the market well you probably catch my drift by now. So Now I’m getting the Niche Duo that will be equipped with SSP MP… The P64 is a very nice grinder, but with Zerno out, if I ever wanted to spend that much on a grinder again that would be where my money would go as I’m a sucker for vertical mounting of burrs, blind burr also makes changing and cleaning so much more enjoyable and all the design went into it is fantastic. But even that will have the ongoing changes we already seen that in its short lifespan I just think that’s the nature of what these products are always striving to be as good as possible.

you should do a Lagom P64 vs DF64 Gen 2 video

I find the concern with knowing the RPM you're grinding at interesting. Do you care so that you can communicate to others (like in a community-contribution setting)? Otherwise, isn't not knowing the RPM just like not knowing the vertical distance between burrs? It doesn't prevent you from dialing in or returning to the same setting, right?

people tend to over do their RDT. 1 spray is enough, not 2. you only really need a micro amount of water to prevent static. so half spray is more than enough but theirs no half spray on spray bottles. just to give you context on how little water you need. 1 drop is more than enough.

I got the updated version a few months ago. It comes aligned now, so 0 is the touching point, just the way it should’ve been from the start 😅 I’ve also been annoyed by wet beans, that needed a little push. At the moment I’m not using RDT anymore, retention after cleaning the grinder is around 0,3g, and from then on more or less zero (with a few taps though). I really like the new Versacup, I think it’s really satisfying to use and it does a great job. A few times I had an annoying issue with coffee grounds getting stuck, I put my dose of 18g in and hardly anything came out, and I really couldn’t figure out why it happened. Will contact the customer support the next time, since they’ve really been quite helpful with any questions I’ve had so far. In case it’s helpful to any EU customers: price for me was 2005$ with shipping, tax etc…. 🙈

I got my P64 about a month ago. At the time I placed my order, it seemed like Option-O wasn't selling them direct in the US and you had to go through a local vendor, but it looks like that may have changed. I've been really happy with it. Like you, I had a Niche, but I mostly make filter coffee, but I wanted something that would produce fewer fines and the P64 with the unimodal burrs has been great for that. I must have a newer model - the access to the burr set is different on mine, the zero point is at zero (and stays there), and the holder for the grounds cup is longer so the new dosing cup doesn't hit the grinder at all. I don’t know if there would be a problem with installing different burrs as I’m very happy with the unimodals.

Need a Zerno comparison please

Lucky you!

I also love my p64 ❤

What do you think of P64 compared to DF83V?

It’s a beautiful grinder but with the price and common, small burr size, it seems like a poor value proposition. I was especially surprised to hear about the drift issue with no way to re-zero the markings, as well as the fitment issues.

Mizen (think it’s maybe “Maizen”) have shims for older grinders like yours and have been recreated and rereleased thicker than the originals. Hit OO and ask for shims or a replacement.

What about the P100?

How long does it take your P64 to get through a grind? I love the grinder, but mine takes 50s + and while it’s super quiet, I get frustrated with the workflow.

"......Hopefully" haha. Lets see if this is still your endgame grinder in 2 years time ;) .

☕☕☕ Love Is Important 💓

They claim the alignment is permanent. Did you have to align your grinder after swapping the burr set?

- it's sad they don't inform the customers about the different carrier heights. A shim for older versions would have solved the issues - I don't like that there's no update to set zero on the grinder's scale. It makes my life harder + overall a very good grinder

We want to see the cat witness

The reason your zero point seems to be moving coarser is nothing to do with mechanical float. It's caused by an invisible buildup of oil residue from the beans which creates the chirping sound when the burrs get closer and the oil layers come into contact. Each dash on the adjustment dial moves the burrs just 10 microns, so you basically have an oil layer about 20 microns thick on each burr, accounting for 4 dashes (40 microns) of "float" to a coarser zero point. This residue is the so-called "seasoning" on the burrs and is considered desirable for proper grinder performance. I've owned the P64 for almost 4 years and in my opinion it is absolutely flawless. I have never had a single complaint about this equipment and it is pure joy to use it every day. I'd be curious to hear what you think of the Mizen burrs. I have the SSP multipurpose and high uniformity, but I find there are tradeoffs between the two.

Zerno takes the crown of grinder for coffee nerds made by coffee nerds. Option-O have lost touch and sold out, their new models (released just after yours) are riddled with QC issues.

Where did you get the shims?

That change to the burr height carrier without proper documentation is pretty bad practice. The updated version should have some identifying mark on it and any accessories they sell should have notes about compatibility with each version

Been interested in the P64 for the longest time! The holdup has always been the price point 😵 With the Zerno now on the block, the P64 doesn't hold my exclusive interest. I know that's a comparison that I would be very interested in!

Sounds way too complicated.... putting in shims to grind espresso. I'm not mechanically inclined and just want something that works out of the box for espresso. Can you recommend one for our small cafe? I can spend $2k on a grinder. Is there a motorized grinder that *just works out of the box* for espresso? Thank you.

I was surprised that you weren’t initially enamoured by the look. That was the first of many ‘hooks’ that saw me purchase this thing of beauty. One thing I would like is somewhere on the grinder to store grinds catcher ring.

4:42 -- am I being petty by saying that it's annoying how the touch point isn't at, and can't be reset to, "0" on the adjustment?

Хороший вариант.

When P100?

For the touch point moving over time, it’s been my experience that the noise is just grounds stuck and it needs cleaning. After a good cleaning the touch point was where it was initially.

Basically the most unthinkable thing happened to me this month: somehow in this timeline I was able to get a second hand P64! Never did I imagine to actually own this dreamy grinder one day let alone this soon, and here I was just a month ago scrambling in a frenzy to find the best relevant contenders for my eventual purchase. I'm elated, to put it mildly. So, the grinder: - It's from 2021 but fortunately for me the numbers correspond correctly to grind size (the bigger the coarser & vice versa) - The grind is so uniform that I no longer deal with soupy broken pucks or even mould in the knock box (SSP burrs) - The motor's sound doesn't drone consistently especially at low RPM, not sure if that's normal but it grinds to set speed like asked nevertheless... on that note, one of the walls inside the grinder has lines of visible scratches from the revolving carriers, it's like they've brushed up against the sides somehow scraping into the aluminium coating - Nice tools but the WDT has the old design of looped ends instead of actual needles, just moving grounds around instead of fluffing them which leaves a lot to be desired - I have yet to taste the notes that I was itching for but then again the beans are over 2 months old (channelling af) and they're medium... can't wait to give this a proper try soon - Grinding at the lowest RPM to the coarsest setting possible stalls the grinder for a second before the rest is chewed out but then it squeals as if the burrs are touching and the adjustment ring gets hard, until I actually pop the top off and brush off all the coffee fragments from the burrs then it's perfectly fine again - I have to be careful not to rapid press the spray bottle otherwise the thing inside detaches which deflates the button and I have to unscrew the top to re-fit the pipe mechanism and the small ring around it back in place - Careful when cleaning the chute - there's a thin (almost flimsy) metal de-clumper "hanging" right at the entry of the slide Not exactly complaints, just observations so far. The Lagom P64 is a thing of beauty. Oh my god could I have spent money on anything better this year. The thing is like a Rolls Royce on the counter and it sounds like one too! Good times will be had with this grinder, and I'm still in disbelief that I have one of my own. Almost a pay check but what the hell. Gotta live a little sometimes, right?

Couldn't you have filed down the carrier instead of shimming up the burr?

I have discovered the specialty coffee world about a year ago, I own a comandante hand grinder but I've binge watched dozens of grinders reviews and my humble opinion any grinder that can be called "good" or "solid" is an end game grinder. I've tasted coffee comin from many grinders in the past year: manuals, commercial, home prosumer and... I'll stick to my comandante for now, maybe I'll get a flat burr manual if a proper one comes out, but I doubt I'll ever even venture into an electric. The concept of "end game" is so subjective and ephemeral that is to tiring to pursue in my opinion: can you mostly get the taste notes? Have some clarity? Do you enjoy your cup? Then you already have an endgame grinder 😊

I own P64 and I agree with the part regarding the price. For that price, it should have been a 83mm burr grinder and P100 should have been a 120 mm burr grinder instead. P64 is insanely well-built premium grinder like a tank but its overall quality is kinda overkill (way too good) for a 64mm grinder tbh. It could have been few hundred bucks cheaper with cheaper materials and add P83 in their line-up or sth.

Okay, but what about the zerno?

Stay caffeinated pony boy!!

Zerno

never thought i’d be one of those guys but, first

I think it was a little unfair to give the new Versa cup a negative point for espresso because in the quick start manual they specifically call it out as “to use used in non 58mm portafilter applications”

Hard to justify the $1000 difference between P64 and DF64V.

I have a KafaTek Monolith Flat MAX at home I use for espresso and pour over. It's pretty expensive and took me 2 years to get. For my office pour over grinder I could not justify another Monolith. I tried a Fellow Ode, I even upgraded the burrs. A Balmundi Natural tasted of strawberry and tobacco on the Monolith, and of damp earth and hessian on the Ode, same coffee. Brewler showed why, Ode alignment not up to it. Replaced the Ode with P64, acceptable. Still no comparison, for your end game grinder set your sights on KafaTek Monolith Flat MAX. Don't be fooled by sexey but stepped and under powered Eg-1.