James Elliott That wouldn’t have been the media that the ATF was wanting. The ATF was wanting a big show to try & make them look good in the eyes of the public after what had happened at Ruby Ridge.

They wanted a show for money.

They don't call the ATF "F-Troop" for nothing.

The ATF was putting on a show. Law enforcement divisions seem to operate under this idea that if you give them a badge and a gun, they’re free to do whatever they please.

Because they wanted to kill all of them and make an example of them.

@Cynthia Baker but they "won" because they made it out alive

@Cynthia Baker I was saying that the ATF "won"

@Cynthia Baker that's why I put it in quotations, considering how many of the Davidians were murdered by these agents. They got their asses handed to them for sure, but it was their story that got told and not the Davidians, so in the end they "won" with their version of history

@@davidbrunner4413 they made it out alive waling away in surrender ....if david was as bad as that liar said he was.....they would not have made it out of the trailor.....facts

A sad truth of history.

Not defending cults here. But they didn’t break any laws. The ATF came in guns blazing for no reason. They didn’t have to raid anything. To make matters worse, no one had to die. David Koresh went to the hardware store every weak. They could’ve just arrested him there. But no, expensive government organizations must justify their cost through killing.

@@marcoglara2012 if there are no internal enemies to fight there'd be no need for highly militarized law agencies here at home, and we can't have that now can we. They'll always find an excuse.

When you say, get him, what does that mean? They were there to serve a search warrant of the premises. Literally, they were there to search inside the compound. How the fuck would anything OUTSIDE the compound be helpful to that cause?

@@rodneyjamesedgar8873 You are half right... and half wrong. They had a warrant to search the premises and an arrest warrant for David Koresh, who they had met with merely 9 days before the raid. Two ATF agents came over and went shooting with him, filing a report which was released via FOIA. But their goal was not to search the premises, it was to create a made-for-TV raid, one that would make the agency look like America's Greatest Heroes just in time for their Congressional budget hearings, scheduled the following week. That's why they had notified the media that a story was breaking later that day, and put at least three video cameras up to film the event. (Which all managed to malfunction, so they testified.) According to a memo the FBI San Antonio office wrote, learned of by attorney David Koppel, ATF was still without any justifiable probably cause just 5 days before the raid, but was intending to go ahead anyway. So they had to dummy up a worthless affidavit and went to a newly minted, inexperienced magistrate (not a real judge) to get their warrants rubber stamped, literally just a day or two before the raid. (Read the Aguilera affidavit. It's garbage, lacking any actual evidence of violations.) No charges were ever filed on illegal firearms, because of a complete lack of evidence. No machine guns were ever introduced as evidence in either the criminal or civil trials.

@Robin Banks That would be a valid point if it were, in fact, the case. But in actuality, many weapons were recovered from the ruins of the building. Yes, most had fire damage, but we are talking steel and aluminum, so much survived that was in sufficient condition to examine. Examples of the firearms were presented in both the criminal and civil (wrongful death) trials. But none were ever introduced as evidence that they were fully automatic. Had the prosecution done so, they would have been required to allow defense experts- or plaintiff's experts in civil- to scientifically examine the firearms. Instead, the only agency that has ever had that opportunity was the FBI lab, which at the time was rife with its own scandals and whistleblowers. FBI does claim that there were a number of converted guns. Easy to say, when no one gets to cross examine you, examine the evidence, or have an outside expert do so. But FBI never introduced affidavits or TESTIMONY of machine guns. There is no reason to believe the FBI when they consistently refused to allow ANY examination outside of FBI personnel. In 1995, during the Congressional hearings, a well known firm called Failure Analysis Associates was hired to examine these firearms. When FBI learned of the kind of detailed tests- including X-ray and other imaging technologies- that Failure Analysis was going to do, they refused access. In the trials, so long as they don't introduce them into evidence as converted machine guns, they do not have to allow the other side to examine them. They were introduced merely as evidence that firearms were in the building, which was not a matter of dispute. I attended a good portion of the civil trial. I saw the evidence in the courtroom, which included one example of each type of firearm found, and the left side of the metal, double front door to the building. (Note that the right hand door, which somehow disappeared under control of the FBI HRT on April 19th, is the one that had critical ballistic evidence from the Feb 28 raid.) The one AR15 rifle was handled in testimony and showed to the Texas Ranger who was in charge of collecting evidence in, as I recall, the concrete vault. Many of the guns were found in there. The rear locking pin was either missing or retracted, so the upper and lower receivers were swinging open on the front pin. The Ranger was asked, by the Plaintiff's attorney if he could tell, by looking, whether or not the gun was converted to fully automatic. The Ranger replied that he could not tell, by which he meant he did not have the knowledge to make the distinction. During a break, I told both that Ranger and one of the U.S. Attorneys that I could tell them with a glance at the internals. The distinction is easily recognizable, if you know what the parts look like. I was ignored by the U.S. Attorney, not surprisingly. To add to this point, most all of the Feb 28 raid was captured on audio tape from two sources. One is the 911 calls from Mt. Carmel, where the residents were pleading with the County Sheriff to call of the raid as bullets were flying through their home. The other is the ATF radio van, which captured the whole event via the radio communications with the agents in the field. What is remarkable about hearing the gun shots, interspersed with periods of silence, over roughly two hours, is that it is all semi automatic fire, with the exception of one 2 second burst. It took place about 12 minutes after the raid began, and is so distinct from the rest of the shooting that both the Sheriff's Deputy on the 911 recording, and an ATF agent on the radio, express shock and surprise. Seconds later, an agent says they "got" the shooter, and it never came up after that day. Contrast this with ATF agent claims- which they did not make initially- that they were under fire from "machine guns" from the start of the action. That claim only came after leadership stopped allowing individual 302 agent interviews and they got their stories coordinated. (The U.S. Attorney ordered an end to agent interviews because- and this document was entered into evidence at the Congressional hearings- they were "creating Brady material.") With the AR15s of that time, it is possible that one gun briefly malfunctioned, giving off a short burst. That was common enough that commercial AR15s were eventually required by ATF to use redesigned commercial trigger group and bolt carriers that made such malfunctions much more rare, though not impossible.

@@rodneyjamesedgar8873 they were invited alot of times to come and check it without the need of a warrant....and the warrant they had.....was not a no knock warrant....

The door was also metal and disapeared from the ATF evidence locker...

LOL. "Research." Googling shit doesn't mean research.

@@rodneyjamesedgar8873 How about actually studying the evidence, Rodney? As in, the trial testimony by federal agents that not a single .50 caliber fired casing was found in the rubble of the building? Is that good enough for you? San Antonio criminal trials, 1994. And no, there were no M2 .50 caliber machine guns found, which is essentially what the allegation was for years. Actually, there were no machine guns shown to be in evidence. Ever. To this day. It was a long time after that they admitted that the .50 was a Barrett, not an M2. Still, no evidence it was ever fired. No casings. Their sworn testimony. The Feb 28 was virtually all on audio recording from two sources: the 9/11 calls and the ATF radio van recordings. It's a whole lot of semi auto fire. Gotta love the line that the Barrett is designed to "shoot down airplanes." That's rich. A single shot .50 anti-aircraft gun. Only someone as ignorant as an ATF agent could come up with that. The Barrett is built for long range shooting, specifically military snipers. Some police departments use them. Civilians use them also for long range competition. Willis was not shot by a .50 cal, that's absurd. Get this clown under oath and watch him squirm on that point. I personally saw his buddy Ballesteros, squirm on the stand when confronted with his perjury. His 302 and his testimony in San Antonio, a year later were not only inconsistent, they were not even the same story. Civil trial, Waco, 2000, he tried to dance when confronted.

@@rodneyjamesedgar8873 if it has credible sources than, yes, that is research. If your reading whatever any website tells you there is opportunity of misinformation. But the internet is a means to vast information, valid and not valid

@@rickroth2188 no matter how much evidence has been provided.......your brain is not strong enough to get beyond the propoganda narrative

@@crustybuster2992 wow, you must not have understood what I said, made some assumptions and then decided to be a dick and make a derogatory response.... So your just an A-hole and an idiot. Are you a liberal?

They don't have a conscience. They are programmed to kill without remorse. They are all guilty of murder. Every damn one of them that took part in this attack on the Branch Davidians. This was a deliberate effort to wipe out Koresh and his followers. I hope the dead haunts them for the rest of their lives.

Funny thing how he lied about that. ATF agents wear military style dog tags with blood types on the tag.

I did that in Iraq except to write it on your boots. This is what a murderer looks like

“Including children and animals!”

Yeah, instead, believe the other side of the story - from David Thibs - who thought Koresh was the Messiah, despite being a sexual predator and convicted criminal who was sitting on an arsenal of weapons and explosives. Did I mention he was banging 12 year olds... and everyone's wife? Yeah, no thanks.

Yes don’t believe the crazy cultists! God Bless the ATF!

@@rodneyjamesedgar8873 you understand you can disagree with both? They were cultists but that doesn't mean we have to gas them.

@@alexbeerune is this the best an atf troll can do??? still as pathedic as the negotiators ......

This guy stated they wrote their blood types on their necks. (This way if an agent was shot and was losing blood fast, they knew what blood type he would need ASAP) Obviously they were going in there knowing they were going to have a gun fight.They knew their plan. He told on himself right then and there.

that was not the national guard either....that was delta force...which means the president had to have agreed to let them work.....it is his personal assault team

​​@@crustybuster2992 that is ridiculous. I served in a unit from 87 to 94 that knew any unit that was there. Delta was not in Texas during the 51 day seige.

It was messed up. Best thing to do is watch WACO it's a 6 part series, you can buy it on Amazon prime tv for 15 dollars. That bitch Janet Reno basically said we killed children to save them. That was our attorney General of the US. The ATF wanted a big show to get Congressional money remember this was months after the Ruby Ridge fiasco. They killed children and women in that attack as well. The ATF is jack booted thugs all they need are black uniforms and swastika armbands.

It was fucked up. They wanted to put on a show for the tv stations instead of letting the sheriff at the time talk to David Koresh and explain to him why he was a person of interest. There were questionable things going on inside the compound, but the ATF and the FBI take greater pride in tear gassing children than actually resolving a situation.

Yer times coming, trust me.

Markus Brunner they believed that the 7 seals of the book of the revelations were going to be broken and that the end times were about to commence. The gathered guns to defend themselves and there families.

@Patrick Martin but why would a church gathering illegal firearms and tons of ammunition for what ? . AND they know the ATF is coming but still regardless doing it , shooting at Government agent so why would a church gathering guns and shooting at ppl , bombing at building ? Still got some idiot to believe in . Lol

Markus - They were a domesday cult who believed the end was near and that the government would come to kill them so they gathered arms. It sounds like a crazy prophecy but on 2/28/93 the ATF shows up heavily armed and fulfills the crazy prophecy. There were two crazy cults working that day and the other was the ATF. Sheriff Harwell said that he could’ve handled the whole thing without a shot fired. He was of a generation of law enforcement agents who prided themselves on never unholstering their weapons.

its called to make money selling them at gun shows...with yellow sheets....which is one of the main reasons they had to burn it to the ground......paper is not fireproof.......its called destroying evidence