Largest Sandpaper Test EVER Done - Top 19 brands Tested using Robots for Unbiased Data

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2 жыл бұрын

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How do you design the largest, with 19 Brands and the most fair sandpaper test ever done? You do it with Industrial Robots, capable of delivering the exact same pressure for 4 days straight and ATI’s pneumatic random orbital sanding head. We tested 19 Brands and a newcomer WHOOPED everyone. We got some unbelievable results. The test results can be downloaded for free from my website. Let me know what you’d like to see next. Thanks for watching! Please like, comment and subscribe. Cheers!
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@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

*Download the Results for FREE and Support What We Do at The Katz-Moses Store* lddy.no/stih *Winner (back in stock fyi but better hurry)* 3M Xtract: shop.kmtools.com/3mXtract *Cubitron II Page* shop.kmtools.com/3mXtract Thank you to ATI Industrial Automation for Hosting us. Check them out, they make really insane things. instagram.com/ati_automation/ www.ati-ia.com/ A much better data table public.tableau.com/app/profile/k.sloan/viz/SandPaperTestResults/SandingResults

@Justanormalguy191 2 жыл бұрын

I hope your test results are good. Just used your link to buy 100 pack of all available grits.

@etbman7 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for doing this amazing project, @Jonathan Katz-Moses, but could you please provide the data in your original format (Excel or CSV maybe)? I'd like to show some other visualizations of it (that's my specialty), but it's a real pain to pull from PDF. Please and thank you!

@daZache04 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, just wow! Amazing test and findings!! This could really influence the market. Maybe you can show the real world application of your favorites in another video and compare different grids. Thank you for doing these test and on such a high scientific level!

@christopherkelley6014 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for doing this test and thank you for giving a free download for the results. Mad skills in the shop....Mad Science in the brain. Thanks for ALL your education brother.

@DavidMcCabe 2 жыл бұрын

Is it my mobile browser or does tay tools always have an invalid https cert?

@izzyswan 2 жыл бұрын

just dropped 300 bucks on the 3M xtract for the production shop! Thank you for doing these videos! RESPECT!

@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

IZZY! That's awesome brother! You'll absolutely love it!

@bobd. 2 жыл бұрын

I didn't even wait till the end of the video. I was listening to the vid and ordering 4 different grits at the same time. Should be here in a couple days and just in time for a project I am getting into the finishing stages of. Thanks for this timely test Jonathan. I think I'll be giving away or selling all my Festool paper soon. But I have to move fast before everyone finds out it's worthless. :-)

@JamesWilliams-en3os 2 жыл бұрын

@@bobd. I did exactly the same thing. When I saw that the 3 brands of sandpaper I have been buying locally and have on hand in my shop are basically crap, I paused the video, went to TT’s website and bought a metric shit-ton of Cubitron Mesh!

@AlAmantea 2 жыл бұрын

Right there with you, Izzy! Wish they had it in 3.5" for the RO90 and delta pads, too!

@bobd. 2 жыл бұрын

I predict 3M will be working some OT to keep up. They have Jonathan to blame. 😁

@OakandOtter 2 жыл бұрын

Damn. Companies gonna be butt hurt. Appreciate you being a straight shooter Jonathan!

@kentowakai1234 2 жыл бұрын

If I were Makita, this would be a turning point. When Toyota's Previa had the worst crash test results, they turned around with that new goal and made the Sienna, the highest rated minivan of the period. Results like these can often spawn excellence (we hope).

@kingblondie7075 2 жыл бұрын

You should have tried some of the toilet paper I bought during the covid toilet paper scare. I still use some of that in my shop.

@jaymzx0 2 жыл бұрын

Ah yes. The ol' 'John Wayne TP'.

@brienb1770 2 жыл бұрын

aka Kirkland brand (Costco)

@wilwrk4tls Жыл бұрын

I'm sure the material removal would be great, but the cost per gram would throw it out of contention

@BL-yj2wp Жыл бұрын

Well, even the most luxurious 4-ply would beat the Makita …

@dannybouchard5520 Жыл бұрын

What brand? My mother in law is coming to visit!

@mtelewicz 2 жыл бұрын

I get why it can be frustrating that people nitpick the test results because we all know the companies that complained were full of it. However, that's also the beauty of the scientific process. Look at what you did in response to that criticism! You made an EVEN BETTER test and got even more accurate and less debatable results thus giving everybody more certainty. Assuming this causes a significant dip in subpar sandpaper sales this will force other companies to compete and spur innovation. It'll never stop being frustrating, but we're all better served by it. Thank you so much for being committed to good science and customer service.

@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

One. Hundred. Percent. 👏👏👏👏👏

@etbman7 2 жыл бұрын

I really appreciate what JKM did here, but let's be a little careful - it's science-adjacent. The main issue is that to make sure the results are robust, they need to be performed on several samples. This type of problem occurs in every experiment, which is why scientists always do multiple trials. It is part of controlling for variables that could affect the results. For example, the test is done on organic material, i.e., every board is different. Even if it's the same board but they keep going deeper into it, the ability of the sandpaper to remove material is not uniform (grain at different angles, pores, etc.). The risk is basically that one sandpaper could get a lucky board and that would make it look much better than it is. There are many other variables to control - manufacturing differences in a batch of sandpaper, how the surface was left by the paper used before it, and so on. These can be controlled by carefully setting up multiple samples. This is not nitpicking, btw. It would be much more complicated and prohibitively expensive to do this to a scientific standard. I believe JKM did an excellent job.

@TimGallant 2 жыл бұрын

@@etbman7 Yeah, the difference between individual boards is one of the first things I thought of when he said the tests were exactly the same for each sandpaper. That may be true in terms of the sander, but it's not true in terms of the wood, by the nature of the case.

@mtelewicz 2 жыл бұрын

@@etbman7 I agree with what you're saying except for one point - I don't think flaws in your study make it "not science." Every study has limitations and flaws, but that doesn't stop them from being scientific. Humanity made amazing scientific discoveries with less rigor than this in the past. I think we shouldn't send the message that science requires a multi-million dollar lab at a University. Science fairs are a thing for reason, to show that science is accessible to everyone.

@blueblur6447 2 жыл бұрын

@@etbman7 I don't care what the heck armchair youtube science professionals want to call it... This was a great test on sandpaper, and will guide many in this journey. We aren't trying to decode DNA or split a atom. We literally are just sanding wood.

@chasewilcoxon7076 2 жыл бұрын

Your metric of grams removed per cost was very interesting. Great way to look at value of the disc's. By they way, I'm a quality Engineer for Norton Abrasives so I found this data very interesting. Love your videos! Keep'em coming!

@alexandersangster7137 Жыл бұрын

Can I get a discount please

@APatchworkCanvas 5 ай бұрын

They ruined their meshpower and redheat discs.

@peterbilelis1794 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan - really appreciate all your videos. In terms of hook and loop sand paper testing, I believe there is one absolutely key aspect to the longevity / cost-benefit analysis that never gets tested: the disc's ability to stick to the sander after multiple on/offs. As an example, I purchased the Cubitron multipacks months ago and agree they were the best in terms of removal. But, its common to switch between discs (e.g. 80, 120, 220) throughout the sanding process. I found that the Cubitron discs would just fly off even my 2 new sanders after 5-10 "attach/remove/reattach" cycles. Didn't matter how long each disc was used. Have never experienced this with any other disc. All tests I've seen simply leave the disc attached throughout the testing process to determine grams removed. I think in a real world scenario where pads are removed and reattached, the cost of the Cubitron sky-rockets as the sanding side remains great but the disc is unusable because the backing will no longer stick to the sander. Due to this, I would not buy another 3M disc until this issue is addressed. From a cost-benefit perspective, this issue renders the Cubitron no better than the ones that remove the least material- unless you keep the 3M disc on your sander and never remove it. As such, I think testing this fundamental aspect of any disc is every bit as important in any cost-benefit test - and make that suggestion for your next such event. Many thanks for another great video.

@Ryan-dj5ku Жыл бұрын

Great comment. That is my big problem, sandpaper not sticking. I would also like to know how long each piece lasts before it's not useable. These tests didn't seem to figure out how many total minutes of sanding each brand lasts for.

@markolmstead4709 7 ай бұрын

Use a backing pad protector and you won’t have that problem anymore. The problem with the mesh paper is the hook and loop from the sanding pad are exposed to the wood surface and get ground down due to friction and heat, which decreases their ability to hold the paper.

@chashint1 2 жыл бұрын

Every DIY shop needs one of those robots to do the sanding.

@barrettready1713 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing test and love all the double checking and clear expectations. Love seeing other youtubers in the same field showing you the love goes to show the respect they have for you.

@artswri 2 жыл бұрын

Extremely impressive job! When you go at something, you always give it full attention and full throttle, love that about your vids! Thanks so much for the honesty, details, completeness, depth,...!

@PapaFlammy69 2 жыл бұрын

What a comprehensive overview, well done Jonathan! =)

@Anglo-EgyptianMan 2 жыл бұрын

Damn dude, didn't expect to see you here.

@Gravy_Master 2 жыл бұрын

@@Anglo-EgyptianMan Seriously? A generic comment from someone with a check mark next to their name, trying to farm channel views - and this surprises you?

@Anglo-EgyptianMan 2 жыл бұрын

@@Gravy_Master Yea, why would a maths channel be into sandpaper comparisons?

@samp-w7439 2 жыл бұрын

@@Anglo-EgyptianMan Well it's because papa Flammy recently started Flammy's Woodworking, so he's likely more into the woodworking KZfaq game these days.

@RockHardWoodDaddy 2 жыл бұрын

@@Gravy_Master I am a wood worker myself lol Please make sure to double check before accusing them of weird shit

@rockinkcreations127 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan, Thanks for taking the time and sharing the details of this comprehensive test. Very MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

@drewgraham7877 2 жыл бұрын

This is/was an amazing video! Thank you so much! Tons of respect for all you do.

@simong-uk 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Jonathan !! Very well executed test methodology and analysis . . . and some very useful info. Stay safe :-)

@DeleRT83TV 2 жыл бұрын

I really love these kind of videos. You are doing a service to woodworkers. Keep up the good work and thank you!

@JasonWilliamsPlus 2 жыл бұрын

I love all of your videos, but content like this is what sets you above all the rest. Please keep up the amazing work.

@durnik1573 2 жыл бұрын

This is fantastic. Thanks for doing this and all you do for the woodworking industry!

@MakeSomething 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, this was well thought out and executed. Well done and thanks!

@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you my friend!

@KingsFineWoodworking 2 жыл бұрын

I love the new Cubitron II, I just spent over $500 on 30 boxes of it. Great test! I love when a scientific approach is taken to testing.

@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks James! Cheers my friend!

@etbman7 2 жыл бұрын

I don't know if you saw the conversation above, but I love you way you put this, @Kings Fine Woodworking - "scientific approach", and I regret my wording. I think we all know your science/engineering credentials. You once gave a very detailed response to me on a chemistry question over in your FB forum about the the effect of environmental exposure on plasticizer leeching in exterior PVC usage (garden beds).

@KingsFineWoodworking 2 жыл бұрын

@@etbman7, hi! I think I remember the conversation. 👍🏻😊

@etbman7 2 жыл бұрын

@@KingsFineWoodworking 😊

@Sunnbuzz 2 жыл бұрын

I got 6 boxes for free as Amazon were selling "not for resale" packs which is illegal where I live. When I saw they sent me 2 packs of nfr I complained so they sent me another 2 go figure lol, I then complained they were still sample packs illegal to sell and they refunded me. 3 months later I ordered the finer grits packs and again they arrived as sample packs, got those refunded too. Total 6 packs for free lol

@jeffrotondo4731 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. This is why I keep coming back to your channel. Unbiased test. Also love your stop block. Got one as a gift. Absolutely amazing.

@jbn0613 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for taking the time (and expense) of doing these tests. It does us all a great service. 👍🏼👍🏼

@brianbarney1885 2 жыл бұрын

As a retired production supervisor and purchaser in a large custom cabinet shop I applaud your test and methodology. We tested many of the brands that you tested and while our tests were more by ‘feel’ (very subjective😄) the results were much the same. At the time ceramics were not available and Mirka was the only mesh on the market so we were limited to psa paper discs and Mirka which far outperformed all the paper brands. The downside to the Mirka was that the mesh unraveled when it hit an inside corner and that caused massive scratching. Does the 3M product also self destruct in a corner? To alleviate the problem with paper discs our sanders would gently cup the paper discs over the edge of the pad when the disc was applied. We also put about a 1/8” radius on the outer edge of the pad.

@J.A.Smith2397 2 жыл бұрын

Loved the festool joke at the end lol," how they keep the cost down" 😆

@mudtosser 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome stuff! Thank you for the hard work and sharing the results with us!!!

@delgoldthorpe4005 2 жыл бұрын

Fantastic...no nonsense, just facts and totally impartial....4 days well spent mate, brilliant info...thank you :)

@BYOTools 2 жыл бұрын

The moment I saw this video I went out and bought some of that 3M sand paper. Thanks so much for the info man. Very well done and loved how you tested the products.

@731Woodworks 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing test! Great job!

@gabesmith6475 2 жыл бұрын

You guys need to do a collaboration soon

@731Woodworks 2 жыл бұрын

@@gabesmith6475 👊

@CalfastYYC 2 жыл бұрын

This video is really comprehensive - thanks for taking the time to test and share your data. Well done!

@yannpenhas9280 Жыл бұрын

Very impressed with the methodology and results !! Even the format of the video is great ! No long speeches, straight to the point. Great job guys ! Now I know what to buy !!

@liveoakwoodworx3967 2 жыл бұрын

I've been using the 3M Cubitron for a few months and I was honestly blown away by how many times I can use one disc. I KNEW it would be in the top three!

@Lincolnstww 2 жыл бұрын

That was absolutely fantastic. So true with "you need to value your time" This video is not stop VALUE VALUE VALUE. Bravo!

@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

Cheers brother! Loving the channel.

@samspade4634 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. Something of value provided by your hard work. This is something that every woodworker can use! Great job.

@festival3rocker Жыл бұрын

mad respect for the scientific process behind this - love your content, honest reviews, and real data and evaluation behind comparative testing. Thank you for doing it how you do

@chm1701 2 жыл бұрын

4 days of testing. Wow! That’s incredible. I’m quite shocked at how poor the main power tool companies performed. I really do take my hat off to you, Jonathan. You’re more of a woodworking geek than I thought 👍

@thomasroach4791 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, I knew the Cubitron was the best discs I had used so far but, it's nice to see I was right 😁. Now I have to get my hands on some of the 3M mesh!! Very comprehensive testing, thank you for your work on this one.

@oxcart19 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, this is great information. The charts are also excellent for helping us visualize the differences between product performance. Thank you, Jonathan! I'll be switching sandpapers :)

@Mookd0g1 2 жыл бұрын

Nice work! Great to have this info. Appreciatinya!

@ryanbecker6584 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve been using Gator for a while simply because that’s what my local Lowe’s sells. I can’t thank you enough for doing this test. I just wish you had done it a couple months ago before I resurfaced an old table 😀 I will be happily giving away all of the Gator and switch to the 3M. I’m shocked that the most efficient is also the most cost effective!

@joshcraigrainey 2 жыл бұрын

KZfaq is out here busting myths of woodworking left and right lately. As a scientist by day, I am so proud to see these videos. I don't have to rely on what my grandpappy's grandpappy told him. Awesome video. Awesome channel. Awesome everything! Keep it up!!!!

@ryanmccrae9491 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing job. Thanks for saving everyone so much time sanding.

@BinleyClan 2 жыл бұрын

Brilliant test!! Thank you for all the work put into this.

@christophergoodrich4120 2 жыл бұрын

Love this analysis! Personally, I rank time per gram removed up there above cost, but they're both worthwhile metrics. Thank you for putting in this effort!

@marcmchale8426 2 жыл бұрын

Either way the winner is still the winner as they were all tested under the same pressure and time. Fair play if you want to get stuff done quickly. Ranking them with time as metric would be a bit more challenging, as there were 4 tests done. The friability graph would be the one to look at as that is time based. So the rank with cost per gram removed would be easy to adapt with the cost of your time. The results table would be easy to adapt to cost of time.

@baraksinz2937 2 жыл бұрын

Wait, did he say that Festool keeps the cost of their tools down? 😳 Where are you buying Festool, Mr. Katz-Moses? 😁 Great video, sir!

@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha I meant they'd be a lot higher if they didn't also sell the consumables

@JamesWilliams-en3os 2 жыл бұрын

😂😂

@donmartinfamily 2 жыл бұрын

In had the same thought.

@ericw9655 2 жыл бұрын

I died at that part too! Just imagine how expensive they’d be without the razor/razor blade model! $10,000 domino tool anyone? 😂

@drmkiwi 2 жыл бұрын

@@katzmosestools Haha, thanks for explaining that. I really thought you were being sarcastic and able to maintain an absolute deadpan face. (I think I preferred your comment without the explanation!) Great video though, thanks. Cheers, David

@jasrasr 2 жыл бұрын

I love these in depth detail videos and comparisons! Keep it up! I loved the dust video too and the finishing video!

@billsedutto8824 2 жыл бұрын

Mind blowing! Awesome testing and great video. Thanks!

@jasonhemmerlin6139 2 жыл бұрын

And 3M exacts are all calling each other asking why they’re charging so little for the Extract discs.

@0ctopusRex 2 жыл бұрын

Incredible experiment! It would have been fantastic to know how the different papers stacked up in regards to dust collection. If you ever do this again, it'd be interesting to weigh the dust extracted in each sanding interval as well.

@KevinMalliaTheMaker 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan this was the best information KZfaq video I have watched in 2021. I loved the content and that data was good. Keep up with the amazing videos 👍🏽

@BrianD3468 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for doing this video on sand paper. It was so helpful to see the results of these brands.

@JakeCharlson 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, between you and Project Farm, I can't begin to calculate how much I've spent on the products you guys test. I'm an Xtract man now, ditching Abranet, the numbers are just insane. I hate sanding. This will cut down time spent by like 2/3, and that's worth some real $$$. Really appreciate this kind of comprehensive testing. Just put in a ~$150 order for Xtract, haha.

@adamcoe Жыл бұрын

1 year later comment: how did you like Xtract? I'm still sort of figuring things out so I bought a multipack of the other "regular" Cubitron 2 discs but I'd be interested to compare them to Xtract as I believe the Xtract can be rinsed out and re-used to a certain extent, whereas the other Cubitron discs are not as far as i know.

@woodworkingandepoxy643 Жыл бұрын

@@adamcoe not sure about him but I bought a 50 pack almost 6 months ago of 80, 120, 160, 220 and 400, I think 400 don't feel like going out to the garage to double check and after daily builds and hours upon hours of sanding I've used 4 or 5 discs from each pack. With life still left in them but eventually I'll change out older paper and use for hand sanding and replace with a new piece. Oh and these were on 5 inch random orbit if that makes any difference to you

@atticusmccoy6701 Жыл бұрын

@@woodworkingandepoxy643 Hello. Thank you for responding with your remarks. Do you have a link to the 50 pack?

@MichaelAlm 2 жыл бұрын

This is super handy thanks for putting in the work JKM!! I'm curious about the durability of the Cubitron. I've been using Abrarnet for a couple years, and my big issue is if you're sanding non flat surfaces the disk will rip off a corner or sometimes clean in half. Then it's basically useless.

@katzmosestools 2 жыл бұрын

I think all mesh-es (sp?) would be less durable than solid discs if you're sanding sharp things. If you look at the pattern we sanded with the robot we always went off the edge by about 25%. Those edges were so sharp I cut myself a few times. The xtract didn't seem to have any issues after 25 minutes with the same disc.

@chubbichicken 2 жыл бұрын

Michael Alm in the house! If you try it, let us know how it holds up to the patterned plywood test :)

@jmwoodcraft7842 2 жыл бұрын

^same issue here

@francoisbarnard2619 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Jonathan. Really appreciate the work on these tests.

@awesomearizona-dino 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome Test, long overdue, Thanks Jonathan.

@simonmurray2002 2 жыл бұрын

Well planned and executed test, I can see this one rattling a few corporate cages but this is what the world needs. I would be very interested to see if the trend carried across all grits or does it pay to have an 80 in one brand a 120 in another and so on.

@thepewplace1370 Жыл бұрын

I got a sample pack of the 3M cubitron mesh featured here and it drastically outperforms my go-to Diablo in every grit I got it in (120, 220, 320 if I remember right). I think youd be safe in going all in on the 3M mesh

@FixitFingers 2 жыл бұрын

G'day Jonathan, first up great job. I did Australia's most extensive sandpaper testing with 13 brands last year and I was aware of your previous video but purposefully didn't watch it until after I'd completed my own as not to colour the results. While I noted there were a few things I'd do (and did) differently it was very interesting stuff. Many of the brands available in the US (sadly including 3M) are not easily sourceable Downunder, but it's good to see that those we did have overlap on like the Abranet exhibited similar results. You touched on friability and the ability of mesh to clean itself to stay cool here and I think you nailed these as the most important factors when it comes to sanding performance. Two things I learnt through my testing you may want to investigate further if you ever repeat this experiment again relate to those issues... and neither actually have to do (directly) with the actual sandpaper. They depend on the setup you use, and what you are sanding. The short version is Red Oak was a great middle choice, but there can be a massive difference in how each disc performs based on the hardness of the timber you are sanding. Traditional Aluminium Oxide discs with low friability tend to perform much better on pine and softwood (having about 1/2 the Janka rating of Red Oak), while ceramic-based based products that rely on constant wear to generate new cutting edges tend to prefer harder wood (I used Red Gum... a cheeky little 2,700 Janka species we have here twice as hard as Red Oak). The second factor is what sander you are using. HIgh-end machines like a Rotex or Derros (or industrial robot!) with the power and dust extraction seem to be able to get the most out of these more advanced and expensive ceramic discs as they keep them clean and have the grunt to activate their friable nature. Home workshops running lower-powered, cheaper and/or battery sanders on shop vacs may not see a massive advantage in the ceramic discs as they don't have the guts or extraction to use them as intended. As you said at the start, there as SO many variables it would be impossible to cover all circumstances and I applaud your efforts here to improve your old testing and indeed deliver the least biased and most consistent sandpaper testing I've seen. I don't doubt the Xtract is clearly the best on market at the moment and I can't wait to get my hands on some if and when they release it in Australia to see how it tackles my old railway sleeper. Top job mate, a super valuable resource for the community you have here. 👍 - James

@RayStarbirdHome 2 жыл бұрын

James, thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail. Excellent points about the type of wood and the sander quality factoring into the results, too. Many woodworkers will take an “if this wood, then this sandpaper” approach, but weekend warriors (like me!) will appreciate the general superiority and significant time savings of the 3M products. It’s so helpful to learn from the experiences of those in different regions with different wood types, tools, and material availability. Stay safe!

@FixitFingers 2 жыл бұрын

@@RayStarbirdHome Cheers Ray! After my years I went with the standard non-ceramic Abranet precisely because I run an 18V 5' system mostly on softer woods. I am also however very jealous 3M haven't released their abrasives in Australia yet 😅 Sticking with one type is fine for most folks I'm sure, I'm just a hobbyist too. I love JKM was able to take this investigation to the next level with robots! 😂

@protonmike 2 жыл бұрын

It begs the question, why isn't 3M selling Xtract into the Australian market? I bet its to do with the American obsession with technology export.

@psptube415 2 жыл бұрын

Hey mate just wanted to let you know I bought three boxes (50 pack) of the 3m extract from rs components in sydney. They are awesome 👌

@FixitFingers 2 жыл бұрын

@@psptube415 cheers mate! Im fully stocked up with Abranets but when they run out I might give these a crack.

@thomasalison6188 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome test, the information is very valuable to anyone who has a business. Thanks so much for putting this together!

@shane5657 2 жыл бұрын

Top tier video. Gotta appreciate all the work that went into this.

@varsitynoodle 2 жыл бұрын

I made the change to 3M Cubitron after the previous video and haven't regretted it. I refinished 1300sqft of oak flooring and only went through 10 discs of 80 grit and 4 discs of 120 and 150. In day to day woodworking use its still a great product. Might need to try the new #1 based upon the results

@javierreyes786 17 күн бұрын

damn I was just about to sand a deck down but hesistant to start since i'd need a million sheets and swapping pads, sounds like 3M is that way to go

@chriskalnasy7116 2 жыл бұрын

What I'm curious about, even though it is 100% subjective, is the quality of the finish that they provided. Awesome results regardless, might be trying some of that 3m out.

@BillJBrasky 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah obviously this test could be cheated if one brand's 80-grit is more like 50-grit. Ideally you would compare topography of the discs as well as the finished oak. But that's getting pretty deep.

@samuelfarber6904 2 жыл бұрын

I really would like to know is some the cheaper papers were more prone to pig tails. Maybe he can do a future test sanding up through the grits on epoxy with maybe the best 5 mesh nets. I think it may come down to the dust extraction, at least when using all high quality products.

@budfahnestock2418 2 жыл бұрын

i was trying to find a nice way to ask this, there's more to a sanding than how much you can remove, otherwise why use anything but 60 grit?

@nikrulz44 2 жыл бұрын

Being a floor sander I use a multitude of these kinds of discs.. for the past year I've been using the cubitrons (although I can't get them through any flooring supplier as 3M wont sell them to them) The cubitron easily leaves the best finish cuts further and cuts harder and is cheaper. The top of the line is normally the Norton "red heat" Putting them next to each other I used two different grits aswell as double the discs of norton to get an inferior result It has blown my mind. I also think the cubitron 80 is more like other brands 100 or 120 in terms of scratching left behind

@markgado8782 Жыл бұрын

Great point.

@ElizabethFranquiEsq 2 жыл бұрын

This is amazing work. The new 3M product's performance is astonishing. Thanks so much for the research and analysis that went into this study!

@moderntouchfurniture 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan I didn't think you could top the video you did on sandpaper last year, but man you did it again! Love the Cost per Gram comparison, an eye opener! Thank you sir.

@AJNicholls 2 жыл бұрын

Just fantastic results. Watched the journey on IG, great to see it come together. So for woodturning, most of the time we're not using a sander with built in dust extraction; either by hand, a drill, or inertia sander with a DC running next to the sanding area. Obviously this leads to more loading, more heat that using a RO sander. I would be curious to see what this does to the friability of the top performers, if it may equalize things out, or flip results, etc.

@mlrodenburg1990 2 жыл бұрын

Really wondering how the winning 3M compares to the Abranet Ace (with ceramic abrasive). Maybe another shootout with hardwood endgrain sanding, only using net papers with ceramic abrasive? Would be useful for all cutting board makers here!

@tree_carcass_mangler 2 жыл бұрын

Good testing! Thumbs up and thanks for posting.

@bhoola123 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing. You saved a ton of money and time of your followers. Thumbs up.

@davidpalmer5166 2 жыл бұрын

You know good and well that some clown is going to find fault with something. Thank you for all the effort you are putting into your channel. Always look forward to your videos.

@johnvolker6781 2 жыл бұрын

Best review I’ve seen: keep the consumables tests coming!

@wiseoldfool 2 жыл бұрын

Great review Jon, plus some great camera work as usual.

@jamesmoreno4155 2 жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to get a temp reading of the discs after each 5 minute interval to see if het really does build up more on the film backed paper

@richs5422 2 жыл бұрын

Good idea, but it must be done at the same time interval after sanding. The robot should be programmed to present the disc to an IR camera, and the camera should be triggered by the robot controller. That way, roughly the same amount of cooling would happen to each disc. The pictures would have more data than just one temperature reading, as they would show hot spots (if any existed). Comparing pictures taken after each 5 minute run might also show how hot spots build up (or that they don't).

@hunnyhh 2 жыл бұрын

@@richs5422 High temperature is the major cause for short abrasive life. In wood it causes natural oils and resins to plastify and clog the abrasive. 3M XTRACT discs sharply cut and are designed to immediately extract the dust from the process so it cannot rub on the sanding interface which generates heat. No heat = no loading/clogging = long life+high level of sustained cut and finish according to the selected grade.

@jamesbruce3105 2 жыл бұрын

What about quality of finish and scratch pattern? Grams removed is al well and good but this test is worthless without considering quality of the finish.

@concretealchemist Жыл бұрын

Well done. Your setup was excellent, and the presentation was great. Thanks for sharing.

@jwalker1429 2 жыл бұрын

Commenting to boost video stats. And to say this video was awesome and very helpful, thank you!

@haxney 2 жыл бұрын

That's fascinating! It's also good to see the 3M cubitron at the top of this test as it was in the Project Farm sandpaper test. If two different people with different methodologies are getting the same result, that builds confidence. One nit-pick: I would think that total grams removed would be more important than cost per gram removed. The most expensive factor in sanding will always be your time, so if you bought one of the super cheap sandpapers, you would save cents on sandpaper but waste dollars of time. Luckily, it looked like the most cost-effective discs were also the fastest at removing material, so we don't have to make that tradeoff.

@MustPassTruck 2 жыл бұрын

KZfaq needs to be decentralized so that more information like this isn't at risk of being censored for hurting some billionaire boards bottom line.

@justinbaird_ 2 жыл бұрын

For beginner wood workers like myself, this knowledge is so valuable so I can determine where my funds should go. Thank you for your hard work and passion!

@richragan4810 2 жыл бұрын

Jonathan I have learned so much from this test and I just want to thank you! I never knew anything about the "Cutting" aspect of sandpaper and always wondered when It was time to change papers. Now I know thanks to you! I apprecite all you do for us and fantastic learning from your videos!

@greenestreetjoinery1457 2 жыл бұрын

Does 3M require an interface pad for the Xtract like Mirka does with the Abranet? That was a total dealbreaker for me with Abranet.

@Johnniewilliams20 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, you can use it without an interface pad. But as with any net product, you should use a hook saver so you aren't replacing backer pads every week.

@tphicks44 2 жыл бұрын

As a 3M Regional Abrasive Specialist for 22 years, these Xtract disc do not require an interface pad. I’m not a big fan of them. I would rather switch backup pads to our Xtract Hookit Clean Sanding Backup Pad Low Profile Finishing(which is almost twice the thickness of the Low Profile backup pad) that comes on our 3M Elite Sanders, if you need some conformability or have rounded parts or have new workers where you want to prevent any type of over sanding or flat spots. Don’t get me wrong, you can use interface pads, buy in my experience many operators end up taking them off. Good luck and thanks for testing our new Xtract Clean Sanding discs.

@greenestreetjoinery1457 2 жыл бұрын

@@tphicks44 Thanks for the response! I HATE interface pads for the exact reason you state. They make the sanding surface too soft. We use Festool sanders...do we have any options?

@garronsteele5143 2 жыл бұрын

The sanding robot was a collaboration between ATI and 3M to be optimized for 3M paper. See statement on 3M website. “The sander is optimized with the included 3M sanding discs and backup pads for maximum performance, consistent cut and long life - qualities of an efficient robotic cell.”

@paulwood2210 2 жыл бұрын

It was optimized for the #2 sandpaper. Not sure why youtube keeps deleting my link to the site. I don't comment much so it may be a policy, but just Google ATI and 3M.

@pigeonmanof180 2 жыл бұрын

Super important information for guys in the business. Thanks. Well done!

@reforzar 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Thanks so much for doing this!

@billqqq 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent work. Thanks for doing this!

@wabio Жыл бұрын

This is the most comprehensive test I've seen to date. 👍👍👍

@icommaDK 2 жыл бұрын

What a great video - Thank you for taking the time and effort for this. I'm excited to get through all the disks I already have and get some ceramic!

@primosanchez6604 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for all the info. Loved this video!

@flamabl1 2 жыл бұрын

Dude you put in that much work to get the truth out there. Sooooo awesome!!! Thank you sir. Damn right I subscribed!

@johnvaldez6710 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing work! I love the methodology used in this test.

@SuperOxygenTV 2 жыл бұрын

Keep these scientific studies coming. What I love about your channel is your original content. Huge.

@partsdave8943 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your time, effort, and report!

@SpencleyDesignCo 2 жыл бұрын

Well done Jonathan! Thank you for doing this!

@godyvdb 2 жыл бұрын

Very nice, thanks for the extensive testing.

@JaredRandal 2 жыл бұрын

Just went to Taylor Tools to restock my sandpaper supply with this! Can’t wait to use it. Great video!!

@nathansgearllc8900 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing this important experience. Great job done!

@larscw74 2 жыл бұрын

I really like this video, thank you very much for putting in the time.

@nicholasvillani5951 2 жыл бұрын

J Katz, This was so helpful! Thank you

@ajourneysustainable913 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. Thanks for all the work to test in such a detailed manner.

@eatdrinkwineguy 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for taking the time. Looks like getting the mesh here in Aus yet. Will be keeping an eye out!

@stonee1968 2 жыл бұрын

Great comparison! Thank you for sharing.

@brucemartin5510 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Thank you, Jonathan!

@hurricanedaveful 2 жыл бұрын

This is some grade A content, you've saved me so much time trying to research which is the brand to buy. I love it!

@ryderscustomcreations3665 2 жыл бұрын

JKM educating the masses again! Thanks for all you do in these videos. I’ve loved cubitron since your first review. The only other discs I’d use were the abranets.. I’m Gonna stock up on some of the cubitron mesh now!