This might be a little embarrassing to admit, but my first introduction to classical latin was Fallout: New Vegas.

Whenever I explain how spelling mistakes are phonetic representations of a word, I use "school". Like... you go to school, but some people think they're too "kool for skool." So in 1500 years archeolinguists will know that "sch-" has a hard "K" sound. Being English, I'm slightly afraid people are gonna think we said "Keers".

Metatron, I trust your pronunciation. You obviously have the background and honest interest in Linguistics. I love your in depth content and discussion.

12:43 This is the internet, we do not do that here.

Pronounce it the way the author would have. That way it gives the context by sound and keeps rhymes working

For us Arabic speakers, the classical Latin pronunciation is generally the same as the Arabic pronunciation of Caesar, I always found the English pronunciation odd.

This ai -> ae change is really interesting because, as a Portuguese native speaker, when I speak Latin with the classical pronunciation I normally tend to pronounce ae as ai simply because it's much more natural for a me to diminish the e vowel into an i when it's weakened. Perhaps this intuition comes from Latin itself.

So does the german word kaiser come from latin caesar?

True Roman pronunciation for true Romans.

Why would one prefer Classical Latin over Ecclesiastical Latin or other way around? I mean, the Romans of Old spoke the Classical version, but Latin existed as a language long after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and people used Ecclesiastical Latin for a thousand years, so it's not incorrect aswell. You just use the form of Latin that was used in the period. For example, if you are reenacting Republican period, you use Classical Latin, but when you're doing the Medieval and Reneissance you use Ecclesiastical. Just as you would Old English when reenacting Anglo-Saxon period and Early Modern English when playing "Romeo and Juliet". As for actually reading Latin text, I think it's up to each person individualy. What you personally prefer. I, for one prefer Ecclesiastical Latin for my pronunciation, but it doesn't mean that it's correct or not. It's just that that it's easier for me to use that form of Latin. Of course if I had to reenact a scene or read Classical writing to the public, I would use Classiccal pronunciation.

The one thing that's always been interesting to me is that even though I studied Latin for four years, and all those years I was only learning the classical pronunciation, I can still pretty easily understand someone who's speaking ecclesiastical Latin. It's kinda like listening to it in a different accent to me.

Italian pronunciation of Caesar sounds like cheese commercial. Latin pronunciation of Caesar sounds like a conqueror.

You impresse me with how many videos you put out so fast :D

I think that both pronunciations are valid. I have chosen to learn and teach Ecclesiastical with the high school students in my class. The reason for this is that most of these students will not be going on to read Caesar or Roman poetry. Most of these students will go on to study a modern language. Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation is much closer to modern Romance languages. In addition, any music they hear in Latin will be Ecclesiastical. Any spoken Latin they may hear will be Ecclesiastical. If they choose to read Ancient Roman writers, they will generally be read silently- not spoken, unless it is in a teaching situation. The pronunciation does not hinder the understanding of the text. Students learning Ecclesiastical pronunciation should be taught that it is not the way the Romans spoke and as such if they read any Roman poetry it should be read in a Classical pronunciation in order to hear it correctly. If students only learn Classical pronunciation their understanding will be hindered when they hear someone sing any traditional Latin musical work. To me it seems that if you only have time to learn one pronunciation, it should be Ecclesiastical because you get more "bang for your buck". BUT, if your goal for learning Latin is to read the Ancient Romans then I would focus on Classical pronunciation. The choice depends on your educational destination.

Language is fascinating, the way we humans express our thoughts through words.

I have almost no exposure to Latin. Listening to you, I would have to go with classical.

My preference is Classical Latin. I just found your channel today and your work is awesome! Thanks a lot!

Metatron, love your distinction in ecclesiastical and classic Latin. As an amateur linguist, myself, (I've studied Koine Greek from Dr. Patricia Berkram) I've seen the differences between Attica Greek and Koine Greek and the accidence of the two languages. Most of the Latin I've seen was ecclesiastical being born to the Catholic church. Later I studied Latin mottoes alongside Emblazon in the Society for Creative Anachronism. Percussus Resurgo

Excellent. I do love the way you provide such a detailed and descriptive way of proving your points. I do not understand why someone would criticize your comments or the way you pronounce words. You are a scholar and (even though you are still doing research) know what you are talking about. But, there will always be those who feel they know best even though they do not have the knowledge to back up their negative comments. Continue on providing the knowledge you have learned. It helps those of us who love history and all things historical. Speech is about as historical as you can get. The development of languages has come a long way. The English I learned to speak as a child in the Southern United States is very different than what you learned as when you lived in England. Yet with the advent of modern television and now with KZfaq and other internet videos, it is evolving into a much more readily understandable language world wide. Thank you, and have a great day.

Mi dispiace che ti abbiano attaccato, sai l'ignorante è convintissimo di avere ragione. Continua così stai facendo un ottimo lavoro.

This video was quite interesting, particularly the method of reconstructing a dormant language. I had kind of assumed that the Caesar of Rome would have been pronounced as Kaisar due to the Holy Roman Empire using that pronounciation for the German equivalent. I was actually quite surprised in an earlier video where you brought up Ecclesiastical Latin and it's equivalent pronounciation as I wasn't aware of Ecclesiastical Latin before then.

Classical every time. Loving your channel

Ave, Metatron! Grazie per un altro video splendido. An Italian raised in an Anglophone country, I prefer the classical pronunciation of Latin as long as the "r" is rolled.

Thx for sharing you knowledge, learned alot from your videos ! Kind regards.

How do you manage to keep up with the upload regime is beyond me, still i get excited whenever i see that you have a new video :D

thanks for that explains much to me i am 70 but never too old to learn new/ historical things thanks for the info an Italian telling me things about the English language i never knew.

Come al solito mi dai motivazione per i miei studi classici, anzi mi permetti di approfondirli senza che siano pesanti. .

Your videos are great.

I really enjoyed your video. You are a natural born teacher!

In Portuguese high schools we teach the classical pronunciation, also called 'restored pronunciation' :) Thank you for you videos!

Thank you for an interesting video.

Enjoyed this video and learned ALOT. As a transplanted Catholic of Italian ancestry, I have new appreciation for thinking about classical and ecclesiastical latin. This is why I love youtube and your channel - learning is eternal

Ciao Metatron! Ti ho scoperto per caso qualche giorno fa per caso e volevo dirti che il tuo canale è fantastico! Continua così. Probabilmente hai un pubblico molto internazionale e sei poco conosciuto presso gli italiani.

I really enjoyed this video. It made me reflect on how I pronounce things in different languages. Please make more content on reconstruction/changes. However, I got one little problem with the reconstructions: For instance if someone speaks German and writes it accordingly like this: _Isz nix drunter_ it does by no means indicate that the majority pronounced things like that. On the other hand writing it _es ist nichts darunter_ doesn't prove that the majority pronounces every syllable correctly. A much better indication are puns and rhymes. E.g. when someone rhymes _mood_ with _blood_.

Your content is just awesome!

I needed this refresher

Brilliant, enjoyed very much

Nice video :) I personally prefer the pronuntia restituta, IMHO it sounds way better especially with the classical works. Nice new place where you record too :)!

I am a classical singer, so I sing in Ecclesiastical Latin, and Italian, a lot. I do also sing in German. I am also a spiritual healer and I am interested in how a sound feels, how the pronunciation of a word changes its feeling or impact. (Although maybe it is ultimately down to how we say it, the emotion behind it, rather than pronunciation). So my mind is blown listening to your video! I had never heard Classical Latin pronunciation before today! What gives me some chills is how Cæsar sounds so similar to Kaiser. That puts a whole new slant on how I psychologically perceive a Roman emperor. Although obviously they were who they were, and people are multi faceted. I do associate the Italianate pronunciation with greater romance, passion and love; whereas I associate languages that feature more clipped consonants with law and order. I don't know if this is just me! I definitely want to hear more of all the different Classical pronunciations and absorb myself in the sound world, so I will check out your other video! Thank you!

Tomorrow I'll be doing an exam in Latin. I'm afraid but I won't be defeated! :D Wish me luck, noble ones!

I've been to a town in Turkiye called Kayseri which settled the k sound for me. Greetings from South Africa

Fascinating, thanks - very interested to have heard how mistakes can aid in research and learning.

interessante ed educativo come sempre

Video molto interessante! Metatron, io ho sentito parlare poco tempo fa di alcuni graffiti risalenti all'epoca Imperiale (se non erro) che hanno permesso di ricostruire la pronuncia del latino contemporaneo proprio grazie allo stesso tipo di errori commessi di cui tu hai parlato, ne eri a conoscenza anche tu, suppongo? Sempre grande, continua così!😁

Grazie, questo video mi ha chiarito diverse cose..

Very helpful. Good work.

Awesome vid, Rafa. Hey, can you make a video telling more about the greek language for us? I find greek very interesting.

Prefer? Classical, classical, classical!

this might be weird but i love your intro music! could tell what it is and where to find it? also fantastic video please do some more on Latin Italian etc....

I will love to see a video about how many variations of Latin exist.

Your Classical Latin is excellent, and you're an excellent teacher as well.

Hey Metatron, here's a video idea for you; predictions of what the languages you speak might sound like centuries from now.

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this. I'm looking into learning Latin right now and I'm wondering if you think it would make a big difference which of these two I learn if I might be mingling between people who prefer either one. I get the impression that the differences are not too significant and that someone who knows one would be able to speak with and understand someone who knows the other but they would hear each other's accents. Comparable to how someone with a German accent might speak English with the common mispronouncing of W as V as well as S as Z, among other notable differences that do not prevent or significantly hinder communication. Is that accurate?

Ecclesiastical is my favored pronunciation simply because I absolutely can’t stand weni widi wici

I also would think there are differences between Ecclesiastical Latin and late Byzantine Empire Latin. As well as between Latin from the time of Lucius Tarquinius Superbus, the time of Augustus and say the time Constantine. If you think it that way, then there's a time frame of over 2000 years active use of Latin, and no one would assume its even remotely the same. Good video

Thanks for your interesting videos, Metatron! I've got a few questions about s and x in ecclesiastical Latin. 1. I've seen ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation guides which mention that the intervocalic s is pronounced as a z. I've been studying Latin for a few years and have switched from the classical pronunciation to Modern/Ecclesiastical for fun. I've heard several speakers of ecclesiastical Latin pronounce the intervocalic s as a z and others who do not. What's your preference? Is this influenced by where in Italy you are from? I watched your video about the differences between Northern/Southern Italian. 2. I've read Latin pronunciation guides which mention that ex followed by a vowel or h in ecclesiastical Latin is pronounced as 'egz' instead of 'eks' in words like exaudi. Is this true for most Italian speakers of Latin or does the egz/eks choice depend on clear regional differences? What is your preference? Gratias tibi ago!

Metatron, I love your closing music. Where can I get a complete version?

You're a great teacher!

Would love a video like this about the Greek language about Ancient Greek, Koine, Byzantine and that, as I understand it is even more of a mess there when it comes to understanding what is what and why.

Fantastic video! I totally support your classical pronunciation of "Caesar". I learned it that way too. By the way, I'm a Chinese student who learned classical Latin few years ago, and I'm now learning Italian. I hope some day I could communicate with you on language learning and other things. I like Japanese anime and video games, and can speak some Japanese also. I can play some piano pieces as well. We do share many things in common.:)

Metatron is the reason why i'm learning classical Latin, he made me fall in love with Rome.

Man coming back to watch this video, super awesome to watch, I prefer and study classical latin

About a month ago you did a video about knife fights. I'm sorry if this has nothing to do with this video, but where do you get the chainmail from? I live in Italy as well, close to Milan, and I'm really interested in getting one for obvious reasons. I'd appreciate it a lot if you could answer. Great videos by the way, I love them. One of the best English-speaking Italians right here

I don't speak either version of Latin, but I prefer the sound of classical just from what you have described here.

This was really interesting! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Latin pronounciation that is taught in high schools, for instance, depends a lot on what country you're from and what sounds you have in your language. I watched a video made by a native English speaker and your video speaking Latin you made some time ago and honestly there are a bunch of differences in pronounciation that I found compared to how you both pronounced it and to how I was taught to read Latin. We'd never say "Cesar" with the "ch" sound because it's pronounced with a "ts" sound in our native language (ooor we could read it with a "k" if we're really trying xD). I understand it's probably wrong but I'm talking about studying Latin for a few months, nothing too advanced and complicated, more like a basic course on the language's grammar. I expect that if one is studying Classical Studies they'd go into pronounciation in depth and not just adopt the sound of their mother tongue when reading Latin.

Hi Metatron! I just want to ask, how should we pronounce magna cum laude? Should we follow Classical Latin or Ecclesiastical? Personally, if Classical Latin is the form of Latin used in universities we should pronounce it as (mag-na) and not (maña) like Ecclesiastical would put it. Hope you can shed light to this. Thank you and more power! PS. I really love your hair.

I really hope you did not consider my comment in the other video an attack, it would be a first time in many many years of internet :) And you are the last one to deserve such attack. As I wrote I just wanted to stimulate a clarification as you promptly did. Really thank you. The suggestion to put in the actual context the pronunciation is a valid one. Said that i will continue my research, I want to find also how the "evidences" and their logic of deduction from the other party (the ones that say that even with its centuries long evolution some pronunciations are not like reconstructed by the methods you described) are confuted.

Ma che POTERI MAGICI hai, Metatron? No perchè ho malsopportato 5 anni di latino al liceo e invece adesso mi ritrovo a esultare di gioia nel leggere il titolo di questo nuovo video: "OOOOOH... INTERESSANTE!!!!". Mannaggia a te!!! :D :D :D ps. grazie! ;)

Could you make a video about why vulgar latin (or Proto - Romance) differs so much grammatically from classical latin? Their grammars seem so different where it's just surprising to know those languages are related.

Good video! Yeah, I know that! Some Italians criticized my videos because I use the classical pronunciation. They don't consider that there are different ways of pronouncing Latin and think there's only one true method. Beautiful British English, by the way! :-) It seems to be that you're fluent in Italian, too?

Thank you thank you. I don't have a preference for either Latin...only an emotional ' I love it and that because you try to avoid rigid thinking I am so so honoured to be able to learn from you.

Thank you

I've also heard from others that we also know how it sounded by the critque left behind by ancient Romans on the spelling changes of dialects and on vulgar latin.

Bel video! Devo dire che hai trattato la questione, molto delicata, in modo preciso ed efficace, seppur sinteticamente. Comunque, in caso tu non lo sappia già, quella che comunemente è chiamata “pronuncia classica” o “classical pronunciation” non è, in realtà, la pronuncia più dettagliata e completa del latino d’età classica; infatti essa deriva da una semplificazione abbastanza significativa di quella che è conosciuta in àmbito accademico come “pronuncia ricostruita” (restored classical pronunciation) e che - questa sì - riesce a rappresentare con notevole precisione quella che doveva essere la pronuncia del latino parlato dal ceto istruito nel periodo classico. Tanto per farti un esempio di un elemento di questa pronuncia non presente nella pronuncia classica, sappiamo quasi con assoluta certezza che le -m finali di parola non fossero più pronunciate, ma causassero, invece, la nasalizzazione della vocale precedente (fenomeno il cui inizio è da rintracciarsi già nel periodo arcaico, vd. in alcune iscrizioni VIRO per VIROM, forma arcaica di “virum”). Anche alcune vocali, come la i e la u brevi, suonavano in maniera diversa da come sono pronunciate in italiano (la i breve era molto simile alla i inglese di “pit”, mentre la u breve era più o meno come la u di “put” o il digramma oo in “good”). In caso tu volessi approfondire la questione ed imparare una pronuncia ancora più precisa e vicina a quella che doveva essere di Cesare o Cicerone, ti consiglio di cercare il PDF di Vox Latina, trattato molto importante per tali studî, in inglese, scritto da W.S. Allen ed edito dalla Cambridge University Press (il PDF posso facilmente mandartelo per mail).

great video

Ecclesiatic Latin Pronunciation did develop circa 650 ce/ad in the Early Medieval Period. It was a variation that was taught as the standard pronunciation by monks since circa 650-730 ce.

When I took Latin in Canadian public school in the 1960s we were taught the classical pronociation which makes sense since much of the reading material was by classical speaking authors like Caesar. As I understand it speach and retoric was a significant part of Roman upper class education. The pronouciation of Gordon would vary by where it was being spoken. In Canada you would not make that mistake. Canadians in many words pronounce ou as a diphthong such as in about which Americans mistakenly think sounds like aboot but to Canadians it sounds nothing like that. There was research in Japan that suggested that if a baby does not hear a sound in the spoken language it hears it looses the ability to differentiate it.

Very interesting. I would only add that there are varieties of pronunciation for ecclesiastical Latin as well. For example, in the Middle Ages ecclesiastical Latin, as spoken in the British Isles, was something closer to what we would call "Legal Latin."

Could you do a similar video to Koine vs Attic Greek? Also, when I attended a Christian university, I studied Classical Latin (although we pronounced V's as V's, not U's), but Koine Greek. This could be due to different teachers of each, but I thought it was strange.

I personally prefer the method that upsets people the most , because people love nothing more than to complain & whine.

May I ask, can you make a video about your opinion with Google translations; since when you said “The Germans and the Greeks said Caesar with a hard c and not a soft c” made me checked and most of the translations, thus I did not do all, but mostly said Caesar with the soft c except Greek.

Metatron, I have begun utilizing transparent language to learn Latin. I'm doing OK with it. I am in the United States or in Okinawa, Japan at any given moment. I don't have the luxury to meet people to practice. Any advise on how to learn either version. For example; when I was a child I had a kids book with pictures and a teacher in Puerto Rico thought me how to read, write and speak in Spanish; I was in second grade. Can you advise of any kids references (i.e. texts, books and videos) that can use to aid me in my literacy and conversational skills with the language? Perhaps the material being used in the Italian school system?

Gratias Metatroni ago ob pelliculam optimam. Consentio, non decorum est de enuntiatione conqueri. Tamen, velim plus discipulorum Latinae loqui cum enuntiatione Classica.

Yes it does and from caesar derived zar too

The one thing I don't actually understand is why English speakers prefer Mark Antony over Marcus Antonius. That makes no sense to me

Very good video. I can vouch for this information with my five and a half year education on Latin. Don't ask me to translate anything, though. I have enough trouble tutoring my brother

I love classical Latin. Such an interesting topic. Thank you.

i'm italian and my teacher when she was first introducing my class to Latin told us about classical latin and how it is pronounced and that we were going to use the ecclesistical pronunciation. I think every teacher does that, those who told you were ignorant I guess were the ones who didn't care at all about the subject at School and the only thing they knew was how to read "ae"

A propos, the proper pronounciation of the word CAESAR with the diphthong "ay" is also preserved as a loanword in few languages. This pronounciation can be found for example in Arabic "qaysar" (قيصر), which stands for caesar or emperor same goes for Hebrew "qeysar " (קיסר). Propably there are more languages that preserved this pronounciation, but the only I know about are Arabic and Hebrew. This is the way linguists can base on their ideas about the ancient pronounciation of the words in Latin and other ancient languages. Loanword is the keyword here.

Very good.

You are absolutely right, Metraton, on the other hand this is not just your speculations about such differences, I remember reading this in old Latin textbooks, so if people say you're wrong it's just their fault, they're are ignorant!

This was very useful. I find this topic fascinating. In my country, in high school we learned something completely different. We were taught that in classical latin it's pronounced /kaisar/ (like in old latin), and in ecclesiastical /tsezar/ (with c, not tʃ, and z, not s). So, neither was correct! I will investigate further, but I guess at university level it should be better.

“Ecclesiastical Latin” developed in tandem with the scripts of the regional but official versions of vernacular Latin (Langue d’Oc, Castilian, etc) in the Early Middle Ages (650-800 CE). The tendencies of Ecclesiastic Pronunciation likely had its birth during the reign of the Emperor Aurelian - as at that time when the Western Empire split into Gallic and Mediterranean Regions.

To answer your question you should read a text in both classical and ecclesiastic Latin to compare.

I don’t even speak latin, but if someone from England told me that I pronounce “Aluminum” incorrectly, I’d say “Yeah, because we have different dialects.”

I prefer classical Latin. I think it sounds better.

Bravo! Both!

Honestly i like both if im talking in an informal or more common folk context ecclesiastical pronunciation if im talking about official and to nobles i will always use classical

I love them both!

Oh so there's actually a reason the Legion in Fallout New Vegas pronounces caesar in that manner. I always thought they had them pronounce it that way to imply that the Legion really has no clue of what Roman culture really was. Then again I never really paid much attention to said culture since I spent all my time trying to destroy it.