Tank meta, or any threat of tank meta, has almost never been about tanks being extremely broken but rather non-tank champs building tank items and becoming unkillable while killing everyone else. I don't get why people pretend like tanks were ever the main problem

I do miss the times when Tank wouldn't explode in 7 seconds or less, but I think another thing that has also become way more prominent along with damage is CC as well. Being locked down or slowed for 5 - 8 seconds is so miserable and if it's knock ups it feels even worse since you can't even reduce it.

>nerf defensive stats and passives on staraks and maw >funnel that loss of defense into offensive stats >riot wondering why champs like fizz get 1 item and can one shot i swear these devs have absolutely no self awareness lol

Master Duel OST goes too hard for no damn reason

Dont forget all the "tank" items that generate damage as a passive now. Its almost all of them. I don't want to do more damage damnit.

I love how they released "tank update" where they made everyone tankier with a bit more HP, more regen and so on... just to ruin it a while later :D

The Damage Meta is also what gave rise to the ap bot laners in my opinion. Why playing a normal adc who has only access to auto attack range when you can lock in a ziggs and deal the damage from a much safer range? Like, I cannot even deal 1 auto attack without getting engaged on and insta killed, so what's the point? Just one shot them from half a screen away before they one-shot you. Better than hoping that the Tank will help you because, let's be honest, the tank also deals billions of damage even without you.

Riot’s dug themselves far too deep into the damage meta that they’d have to factory reset the game just to get have it fixed. I’ve noticed myself asking this question a whole lot: “Why am I taking so much damage?!” Damage right now is so absurd that death recap lists “unknown” as a damage source 🤷‍♂️

This is exactly why I left. Tanks have no place in the game. And when I say “tanks” I don’t mean Darius or even ksante. All tanks have been effectively removed from the game because they were given more dmg in place of being tanky in the meta. As a tank I wanna be able to 1v1 and not be the first to die in a team fight when I engage. I never asked to one shot squishies either.

The same exact thing happened to world of Warcraft after 10+ years… its power creep. Items, champs, everything slowly gets stronger and stronger with bigger and bigger numbers. We need a re-set.

I was playing an Aram the other day. Full build mundo, almost 250 armor, almost 200 MR, near 7k hp. Killed in 3 seconds by 2 people. That shouldn't happen. If I was a squishy, that would have been instant.

tank meta is not to be feared. anymore. we have anti tank items and answers now. if fights are longer there is more skill expression. i miss that in league

absolutely, I was thinking about this the other day, how often on a tank I'll get to late game, full build, and get killed in the span of quite literally 2 to 3 seconds.... What in the hell is the point of going full tank if you are functionally the same champion as someone building bruiser, or even damage. The ninja tabi people used to build on marksman is a great example, where you could get that and feel a legitimate difference in your durability. Nowadays it literally does nothing, you're still going to die in 1 combo until you've committed 2+ item slots to full blown tank items

What also does not help is that rotations are just much faster in frequency than before. Even if Zed cannot one shot you, he can just return, wait 8 seconds and give it another go. Akali's passive is designed around chipping an opponent down, but give that Assassin damage and she is chipping lives rather than HP!

The sense ive gotten from playing this season is that everything's all over the place. Some champs that should be doing damage aren't doing enough, some that shouldn't be doing damage are doing too much, and then you have some that should be damage dealers absolutely roided up and steamrolling everyone with nearly no counterplay. Im all for chaotic fun metas but damn is not fun seeing shit like full damage Gragas 1 shotting people while being practically unkillable.

Remember last year when they said they were gonna nerf basically all of the damage? Did that just… get cancelled? I still routinely get one-shotted as a tank.

I Will always preffer a tank meta than the one we have now. At least in tank meta You have time to do things

Noone talks about it, but one of the main reasons tank meta existed was that ADCs could two shot anyone not building tank

Step 1, assasins are so op they can build defensive items and work fine. step 2, call it "tank meta" step 3 ??????

Garen's Ult dealing true damage reminds me of the Juggernaut update, along with his rework. When an enemy killed an ally, Garen would mark that enemy as a villain, causing his E and Ult to deal true damage. That ended up getting partially reverted, but he kept the true damage, now as a part of his kit rather than requiring a "villain" that's no longer around.

People scared off the Tank Meta when the actual tanks themselves aren't even that good.

Many Modern Video Games suffer from this Problem. Games length´s are shortened, so people play more and more. Also are many people desatisfied when they dont deal damage, so everything deals a lot of damage. Wich is a Huge Problem. Game intendet for this are Beat Em Up´s. Mortal Kombat or Tekken Matches get straight up decidet by the sheer damage output of the Combo, wich can easily Reach Half of the HP, with Healing beeing almost non existent at all in the Game. But a slow paced Strategic Moba, clashes really hard with this HIgh Damage. Many potential Scenarious get denighed, or never accure at all, because many members of the Game are dead. Rotations, Peaking into Corners, Trading is all to Risky and the go to Option is either a Catch or a full Blown all in to down the enemy´s. Wich is sad because it makes the Game literal Aram, wich didnt play at all in my First years of playing league. But Aram just got so much more fun, because the Damage theire is almost permanent like in fighting Games, because you cant Recall for rescources anyway. So it comes Hand to Hand with this phylosophie.

They need to do a durability patch in the way of just dialing back all damage in the game by 30%. Just a flat 30% nerf to everyone.

League has a damage problem League had a client problem League has a root kernal anti cheat problem League has a boosting problem League has a basic graphic design problem League has....

Not to mention that since everyone has so much damage and the powerspike is achieved at two items, it makes it so teams who are behind can't comeback. So most games who win early game are almost always a hard stomp

No shit, they buff every characters defensive stats in one patch, and because assassins complain that they can't oneshot everyone anymore they start nerfing the resistance on literally every item while also buffing the damage that every character can do. They literally did the whole durability update only to start buffing damage and nerfing durability in the next patch.

The current damage meta is one of the worst meta imo. One of the main reason is that you have less counterplay when you get bursted down instantly or over 1-2 seconds and so it takes away any reaction time or counterplay. League was supposed to be a game that was somewhat different than the standard reaction time based games like csgo or valorant, which require precise timing and aiming. Nowadays, league has devolved into this same category as well, your reaction times need to be very good in high elo to dodge or land skill shots. This wouldn't have happened if every skillshot didn't instantly take away 50% of your hp. In the past, it didn't used to be like this, which is why a lot of people loved this game a lot more. It was a bit slower than the current game state, but much more enjoyable and reactable.

If tanks were actually viable we wouldn't be having this problem. Building lethality and flat magic penetration is the worst possible thing you could do against a tank, yet every champion is building these stats to deal as much damage as possible to squishy champions and there is essentially no tradeoff because there are no tanks in any games.

Season 6 tank meta was way more fun than what league is today

I get why, cause it is annoying but it just feels bad as a tank main to build full tank but somehow still get melted.

I'd rather have a tank meta where games are longer than what we currently have right now where everyone deals damage and the game ends before 30 mins. And that's coming from an adc/mage player before I stopped playing back in 2019. Beefy bois are annoying to deal with sure but having a 2 item mage support and a 1 item jungler 100 to 0 me in less than 2 secs is way more frustrating.

I've noticed I will chase someone while on like 7-800 hp lategame, and they turn and one shot me with all the passives, item effects, burns, and initial damage boosts combined with a crit, where the actual ability/attack does like 400 damage, but the items and effects end up doing an additional 300 damage that I didn't expect/respect which always makes me go "Oh 😅"

Champions like Akali, Ekko, LeBlanc, and Fizz should simply not exist. They have enough health and utility to survive multiple seconds of focused damage, but can also, quite literally, one shot 3/5 people on the enemy team while doing it.

My biggest issue with the power creep in this game is the Marksman role. They're meant to be Attack Damage Carries, but everyone does just as much, if not MORE damage than Marksmen, at similar ranges (thanks to mobility spells reaching so far), faster, AND with more durability than Marksmen. There's a reason Marksmen build almost exclusively Lethality now, if they're even fielded at all. I'm OK with a somewhat high amount of damage across the board, but this is excessive, and it's equal across the classes and positions. If damage is going to be high, then make Burst Mages, Marksmen, and Assassins the only ones that can one-shot, melt, and execute anyone respectively.

I do hope damage gets turn down a little bit, supports now have to be either tank or damage, enchanters are rarely seen in my games anymore. (Used to be an enchanter myself)

I rather have a Tank Meta than a Damage Meta because Riot will ALWAYS push Anti-Tank into champion kits even if they champ doesn't need it, along with ensuring there are items meant to deal with Tanks. I'm a Tank main and it absolutely SUCKS being melted even with full build.

Defenses are so ineffective now. The only champs with the potential to feel unkillable are skirmishers with high sustain and high mobility

The problem of tank meta was non tank champs building full tank going toplane abusing at the time the tp meta taking ignite because of the champs that abused it didnt need that summoner spell. Those champs where mainly Ekko and Fizz, but there was also the infamous Hecarim top for listing a few. They all had the same build pattern those 3 tiank items and the game strat was just going forward with no counterplay.

I legit feel this so much. I literally had 341 armor on Shen in a game yesterday and was still taking over 600 damage from a crit from a Caitlyn. Not even a headshot. I have almost 350 armor why does the ADC kill me in 6 auto attacks?

The durability update was a good step to help increase the overall time-to-kill, but back then i knew it wouldn't do anything impactful since most of the changes were on a per level scaling and only like +50 to everyone's base health; that makes it so that the team that is ahead will have more durability then the team that is behind, which leaves no significant change to snowballing or to the 5-damage dealer teams. They did change some character's percent health damage to accommodate for it, but i can't remember the meta being changed at all.

I see one exeption to the rule: Vayne That MF adc builds 2 AS ítems and boots and then 3 tank ítems WTF! That thing has 3700 HP 2.8 AS 150Armor and 120 Mr with a god tier janna or rell support

I wish they did tank-busting in more interesting ways. A weakness of a champion can be that they struggle to kill champs that build full tank, or having abilities which instead of dealing true damage max health percentage deal bonus damage to enemies over armour thresholds, it's not perfect but at least squishies may live a bit longer

Clever to talk about power creep while having Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel OST in the background lol

The insane amounts of damage and how quick it feels is the reason ive stopped playing over the last couple months, im an adc main so i appreciate i should be killed fast and do shit tones of damage. but when i see the whole team no matter how far behind (including some tanks) just straight up 100 to 0 me. ofc skill issue ik that but it feels excessive. maybe just me tho

ever since runes reforged damage has been insane. Ask any adc main, front to back teamfights dont exist anymore its just one shot or get one shot

I genuinely think the big issue is that Phreak and his balance team CANNOT FATHOM a different way to buff rather than damage. When was the last time we've seen a creative ability shift? Midscopes have disappeared sadly. Items are more damage centric once again. LIke Riot refuses to be experimental and creative with balance.

I stopped playing the game because for the most part if you aren’t being extra aggro and rushing people down, you fall behind. There’s almost no such thing as being a slow methodical player anymore.

So it wasn't a tank meta. It was assasin meta where their base numbers were so overtuned they could go full tank. In other words, Sunfire Diana before Sunfire Diana.

God I remember when games lasted 30 minutes. Every match had a certain epicness to it, everyone giving it all on the 30, 40 minute mark, everyone at full build... pretty cool those times

Riot: makes a champion with high base damage * Said champion starts building Tanky to abuse base stats * Riot: welp lets nerf everything tank to oblivion Tank meta wasnt even that bad, what's the problem with Ekko building more tanky other than that's not what riot overlords wants? if he was too strong a simple nerf to base damage would do it. Also there was less defensive items in couterpart of having less anti-tank options. And those anti-tank options were good despise of Vars said. Void staff stil gave you 40% pen, Dominik still gave you 35% pen, Black Cleaver still gave you 35% armor shred, but they seem bad due to how inflated current items are, BotRK is the best example, this item does so much it's insane, no wonder why it is core on a lot of champions despise being a anti-tank item (in theory) Riot is sowing what they planted, this is the direction they want the game to go, and they will drag us even further with then thats for sure

You know, I think there is a market for a detailed and comprehensive video about the perspectives and changes that have contributed to the shift from tank meta to damage meta. It's pretty interesting to think about how changes to the game's systems have created a shift from baron being scary to baron being easy to take. When did that happen?

I'm a master mono poppy, and I must say that she is barely a tank anymore. I play her a lot more like a bruiser(with some bruiser items like shojin, black clever or sundered sky being great choices depending on matchups) than a tank. One thing I've noticed and you kinda forgot to talk about is: there are, actually, five ways to tank in league of legends. The first is to avoid taking damage: speed is a huge factor in today's game, many champions can take ghost or dash and scape from the fight, and that feels like a good skill expression in the game, so people normally aren't mad at it. The second is to take the damage and reduce it. This is a very affected one, as the whole building tank when there's true damage max health in the enemy team makes it obsolete. The third ir to sustain. A huge part of the meta last season on top lane had two bruisers with sustain items such divine sunderer that could keep them fighting for longer than if they had tank items. The fourth option is to use defensive skills to tank. Shields from supports and enchanters, abilities like Gwen's W or Xin Zhao ult, Fiora's Riposte, Zhonyas, yasuo's windwall and so on are considered very frustrating to play against, and they can alter fights in a way that people feel like they are punished for trying. The last and most important is: tanking with CC. great tanks in meta are the ones that can stop the enemy from dealing damage for as long as they can, and CC is the most reliable way to deal with that at the moment. This is actually the only way to tank that is basically guaranteed to help you survive. The problem is... Which is the most effective CC you can apply in an opponent? killing him! So, to avoid taking damage, the best strategy often is to kill the other team DPS ASAP.

All my homies hates tank metas

It does have a damage problem. The problem is that I DO NO DAMAGE TO THE ENEMY TEAMF OR SOME REASON BUT EVERYONE ONE SHOTS ME!

Mfw I just closed Master Duel OST and started hearing it immediately again after opening this video and almost got paranoid as I couldn't find where I had left the OST still playing

4:37 while zoe does technically do true damage, the fact it is post mitigation true damage probably shouldnt be understated, she's arguably the only one on the list that doesn't fit. To clarify, zoe E's detonation/ wakeup damage calculates its damage from the damage dealt MR/ armour has been applied, its designed so that resistances do not apply twice to the effect. It should be noted while asleep the enemy DOES lose a percentage of their MR, which could be argued as assisting in the anti-tank narrative, but the true damage itself does not

in tank meta you need to think what you are doing i mean in lane state trades are way more meaningfull as you slowly gain advantage by little better plays over your enemy. in oneshot meta nothing matters as you well kill anyone on combo and bounce waves without thinking

Even the tanks build damage now. Voli, Galio, Garen, Malphite, Gragas, Zac, Nunu, Singed all build damage now, tanks are gonna go extinct. 😢

Wow I remember watching your maple story videos … your guides were top notch . Congrats on transitioning to league ! Time flies man

Vars subtly hinting with the music at his upcoming Vars 4 channel where he talks about Yu-Gi-Oh card design. Ngl I'd be here for it

"Everyone can one-shot regardless of class" *cries in ADC*

Master duel music goes crazy😂

As a monoGP I feel it. I remember that in the past the trades were longer by exploding the barrel 3 times on the enemy and applying 3 or 4 times the passive to him. We make trinity and sterak (had a passive that incrase base atk). Now I oneshot the enemy with one barrel. If not, he oneshot me.

Master duel ost sounds so fitting considering that every deck nowdays has to run the same 8 cards in their decks in master duel just like everyone needs to do damage in league and how normalised it is that no one is complaining

Honest question: why hasn’t riot restricted items to current champions/classes? They already this somewhat with restricting item combinations. This might “restrict” item builds, but most people are already building the same items in the game. The only time people started building different items is when the item was very strong, like AD Leblanc or tank Kat. By restricting items riot can actually give classes like adc stronger items without having to worry about other classes abusing the newly buffed items.

Yet in some games for me, it feels like tank still can’t die because I do so little damage

this is why i really loved and still love the ingenious hunter gimick builds, that are built around getting a lot of shields from fimbulwinter and eclipse as frequent as possible, sometimes throwing in healing from sundered sky or unending despair. Somehow it actually works better than building just straight resistances or health, which doesn't really make sense but oh well

This one had more involved editing than usual it felt. Fun!

as a tank main i think a good Tank item would be one that five flad damage reduction recived AND DEALT, so you dont blow up, but cant oneshot.

Can we just REMOVE Zhonya's Hourglass from the game completely?? Zhonya's is a huge part of the shithole arms race of damage, where characters that kill you in .01s complain that they had to wait a few seconds to do it again (their abilities are back up btw). Then just HALVE the damage in the game across the board; a fight that took 10 seconds can take 20, now you can make a mistake and not INSTALOSE the game, because you got killed once, missed two waves otw back to lane and your opponent has their spike at 15 minutes so you can't walk up anymore.

6:11, mordekaiser also steals a bunch of stats on his ult, which works similar to pen, since its stat reduction, and its also % max health dmg, since it steals health, and his passive does % max health dmg

I don’t want longer games people just start to tilt and quit the second they fall behind

First

0 VIEWS IN 40 seconds, FELL OFF

What's worse? "I can't kill him!" or "I can't walk 300 units out of the base without dying to AP Alistar in 0.2 seconds"

One thing I dislike because of this damage creep and earlier power spikes is also the fact that there's very few truly bad early game amazing late game champions and even those who are like that are far from what they used to be. Back in the day, champions like Yasou or Irelia were genuinely weak because they would be amazing in the mid and late game. Today, their early game disadvantage is all but gone and their lategame is also neutered because everyone is powerful always. I miss the hyper scalers and genuinely weak early game characters, but it'd be impossible in such a fast paced game as todays league, you give up too much being as weak as some were early long ago.

"Adc can melt everyone" Are we playing the same game?

Damage? What damage? Couldnt put a dent in the overfed 9k hp mundo last time I played as adc. He twoshot me tho..

Didn’t realize how splashable master duels menu theme is, fits right in

Bro really used that Master Duel backsound for a League video. What a mad lad.

there's no problem with the current meta everyone just likes to complain

Reset or not, one better things riot should do is nerfing thedamage of champions. They could touch items, rework them, adding durability (was a good initially but then become worst) but the problem is still there. Tank meta affects other classes never tanks, just remember on season 12 diana-yi with sunfire. Sure some items are truly overtuned (like sunder sky).

God the MD background music made me think my phone was glitching

The biggest solution to "tank meta" is to simply not allow certain classes to build tank items. Force assassins to be squishy, or give their items resistances in exchange for damage. Every single assassin should be "one shot or get one shot", and tanks should be able to directly counter assassins simply by them being able to eat the one shot and win the fight by attrition instead of their own large damage numbers. We are getting to the point where this is like overwatch, where tanks are getting curbed stomped again and again because they dont have the effective health pool to properly TANK damage. And the only way to make tank items actually balanced is ensure characters and classes who abuse tank items simply cant anymore.

They need to do a huge patch where they adjust all damage on champions,. their scaling not just base damage. they need to reduce tanks damage to make up for becoming tankier as a whole by everyone becoming weaker. Items need to give less damage, Less armor pen and true damage on champions, but riot will never do that cause ego and fast games....

The boiling frog study was using frogs that had their brains removed to yield those results, if i remember correctly frogs with intac brains left the water at a point.

What i miss is when assassin and adc dealt dmg, not the tanks or enchanters. Now everyone is assassin

can we also talk about CC, literally every champs cc gets buffed over the seasons and all tenacity sources are removed or nerfed to the ground

My biggest issue with the current state of the league is, that you don't have options anymore. In earlier seasons you could counter champions and team comps with smart itemization, and now I am under the impression anything but damage is wrong because even if you go full tank, you will die almost as fast unless you are one of the few outliers champions or extremely ahead. I also don't like that with champions who can kill you in 0.Xs we have chain cc in the game that can stun you for more than 3s, or just one lucky morgana bind. With that much dmg, cc becomes so brutally punishing.

its like they even made a patch to try and remove one shots from champs that arent supposed to one shot

You can really feel this problem on suustain based champs like Morde. Building items like riftmaker is detremental when you need to kill the enemy faster than they can burst you down. Especially since the omni-vamp doesn't even kick in until a few seconds into champion combat, and by then the fight is already decided.

Played a match today on Zac top against a yone. As soon as I saw what he locked in, I swapped to AP runes because no amount of hp can protect me from %health damage. We ended up going pretty even, and it basically came down to whoever got the first hit, because we both had a similar amount of cc and damage despite being two characters in opposing archetypes, and he won in the end due to yone having the mobility advantage, thus getting the first hit more often.

Yugioh masterduel soundtrack activated my fight or flight response.

After taking a break for a couple years then coming back recently. The damage is insane. As well as every champ being able to snowball out of control. Oh you you died once in top lane? Well now Garen has a kill and 3 tower plates. And when you walk back into lane you get wombo comboed instantly and magically you are 2 levels behind they have a full item and boots, and your lane is over.

I wish more champs had scaling outside of AD and AP. For instance if you take any amour or MR on Azir, it won't increase the resistances on your passive's sun towers (resistances only scale with level). I think Briar and Jhin and Irelia find a nice balance in terms of AP scaling, and you do see hybrid AP tanks like Galio and Malphite, but you don't even see Karthus' passive last longer as he gains mana nor do things like cast range and Auras scale with any variables other than champion size.

Hot take, in my oppinion items should be class locked, tanks going ap/ad marksmen going assasin items and such is in one way good for build diversity BUT to me it just makes the game loose all of the intent with the characters. Cause now everyone can oneshot anyone unless they are fed tanks and if they are you need to 5v1 them to kill them unless you have max hp damage buildt in. Also League has a massive cc problem in my oppinion aswell, it feels like everyone has some form of cc and if they dont they have enough mobility to the point where catching them is impossible. Thank you for coming to my ted talk

I wonder if at any point in time riot think about reworking tanks and items to scale with base and per lv armor and mr similar to AS that way champions that are not intended to go tank stay away from tank focused items by giving them lower bases of those stats

What Riot actually needs to do is establish a rough time-to-kill for each class, in each class matchup (i.e., Tank vs Assassin, Tank vs ADC, Tank vs Tank), assuming equal items/level and the expected build for that class. Then they need to adjust the numbers until the actual TTK for evenly-matched champs of each class is about right, plus or minus variance due to having early/late powerspikes. If they wanna get really fancy, they could draw a curve for TTK at early, mid, and lategame, and use _that_ as the benchmark, depending on whether a champ is intended to be earlygame or lategame. Or, they could use the same calculations for TTK with _all_ builds, and automatically detect the optimal build for any given character, and use that to detect when a character's more effective with off-class items (i.e., ADCs building tank).

i cant the yu gi oh master duel main theme the whole time once i head it i cant un hear it