Learning Lumatone: Ep. 25 - "53-EDO Basics"

Рет қаралды 21,744

Жыл бұрын

Dave's back with a first look at the massive 53-EDO tuning on the Lumatone. Divide your octave by 53 equally spaced notes and see how intuitive and creative it can all be. Here we'll explore the basics of how to make it all happen.
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Пікірлер: 68

@axenwald9790 Жыл бұрын

53-EDO is definitely not overkill. Thanks for this demonstration.

@ValkyRiver Жыл бұрын

I use 53-TET to explore 5-limit just intonation in a schismic way

@koncerty-bielsko Жыл бұрын

A very interested video. Yes, 53-TET sounds differently than 31-TET. I don't know which one I like more. They are just different, but both are great. What you say at 4:45 that human can hear only the difference of 5 to 6 cents is true for the two sounds played sequentially, but when the sounds are played together 1 cent difference is noticable (and maybe even less) and it is heard as a "beat". Here we can listen to an example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent_(music) In the cords we hear the sounds played together, so when the higher harmonics are mismatched by 1 cent it also can be noticed, though it is more subtle the the mismatch of the base sounds.

@werewolf1978 9 ай бұрын

Agree it’s all about the beating

@oscargill423 Ай бұрын

53-TET makes 31-TET sound like 12-TET Like 12-TET has this exotic roughness to it when compared to 31-TET; it's not perfect, but it works in its own imperfect way. Hearing the accuracy of 53-TET reveals the "rough spots" in 31-TET, at least for me.

@zAvAvAz Ай бұрын

Awesome 53 EDO and you know how to use it. Good show!

@JosephElsherbini Жыл бұрын

Really looking forward to your JI video! This 53-EDO might be my favorite tuning you've shown so far.

@Lucius_Chiaraviglio Жыл бұрын

First time I have actually gotten to her 53 EDO -- and it sounds great. You have to be totally awesome to be able to play it, and building an instrument to play it isn't easy(*), but if you can pull it off, here's your almost exact Just Intonation. (*)Especially once you go to non-synthesizer instruments other than those already having continuous pitch.

@hystericalkeys8891 9 ай бұрын

This is the future of music right here 🎉🎉

@sawtoothiandi Жыл бұрын

Always like to see people take times feelings into consideration.

@punpcklbw 2 ай бұрын

Seeing the pattern on those keys, 53 comes from the four sets of 12-tone "chromatic" scale (counting up to 48 tones), with five more tones to wrap everything up into this configuration. That's one beautiful keyboard with unique sounding. The transition from 12-TET to 53-TET is alike to transition from real to complex numbers, but in terms of music harmony.

@mr88cet Жыл бұрын

If your goal is to approximate 5-limit JI and still modulate freely, 53 is probably not overkill. (That’s not necessarily the most important goal, but it has meaning.) Given that goal, what I think is most interesting, is what I’ll call _insightful_ JI approximations. That is, excellent approximations because a tuning is _well-chosen_ , rather than just by “shot-gunning” it - just having so many available pitches that you can’t possibly miss! One possible way to get a handle on that, is to require that it approximate that ratio within some percentage of its step size, say 20%. 53TET _absolutely nails_ perfect fourths and fifths - off by less than 1% of its step size. That’s what you call a bullseye! 53TET also has a _pretty-good-but-not-amazing_ approximation of a 7:4 (~5c). That’s off by about 1/5 of its step size. Does a 5c approximation justify the added cumbersomeness and complexity of managing 22 more steps per octave than 31TET, say? That depends in part upon how much more cumbersome those extra 22 pitches are to manage. On a Lumatone, the answer is, “not much” (although 5 octaves of 72TET is impossible even on a Lumatone). On a guitar though, 53TET is a lot more cumbersome than 31TET, and on a woodwind, it could be a deal-breaker!

@romeolz 7 ай бұрын

Which commas are tempered and which are left in is also a very important characteristic of a tuning for example i would like 41edo a lot more if 21/16 and 13/10 weren't equated (13/8 and 18/11 too)

@gabeleneveu Жыл бұрын

Beautiful video! I love your down to earth approach to these tunings- very refreshing :D lots of love!

@eelamite Жыл бұрын

bro how do you even memorise this stuff.. i cant imagine the hours u put into this. unsung genius

@user-oc6ne9gy2z Жыл бұрын

Amazing. Absolutely stunning

@markkirollos4437 7 ай бұрын

It would be really cool if there was a "smart" software that could analyze the spectrum of sound being played and "choose" the most harmonic 52-edo option while playing on a simple 12-edo layout without having to memorize the myriad of optimal chords. I could almost imagine it being possible as some sort of post-processing plugin or tool, but maybe too ambitious in real time.

@tomguarente 10 ай бұрын

now im imaging a giant touchbed with just pure continuous notes

@romeolz 8 ай бұрын

I think there is an instrument called 'the continuum' or something that is exactly that There's a video of it on dolores catherino's channel

@andybaldman 5 ай бұрын

So you mean any fretless instrument?

@wakeupthisisntreal8168 3 ай бұрын

So like, a violin?

@dr-wz4gf 3 ай бұрын

voice teheh

@MrChaluliss 8 ай бұрын

That little intro bit he plays was really colorful, and soft, not as dissonant as I am used to hearing in microtonal music.

@MaxIsBackInTown Жыл бұрын

Excellent work

@Micronaive Жыл бұрын

17-EDO & 15-EDO basics please!❤❤

@Apticx Жыл бұрын

This is hurting my brain in a good way

@ianglenn_music 9 ай бұрын

This is what I imagine alien instruments would look/sound like

@henrikljungstrand2036 Жыл бұрын

You might make a video on 41edo next time. It is a really good tuning, supporting Schismatic (like 53edo and 94edo), Miracle (like 31edo and 72edo), Magic (like 22edo, 19edo, 60edo and 63edo), Octacot (like 27edo and 68edo). It would be excellent for some nice, pretty accurate Lumatone music in the 7-limit, and even 11-limit. Kite Giedraitis has also made a good guitar tuning with frets spaced like every other step in 41edo, so it is a (41/2)edo tuning i suppose, except the tuning in [EDIT: pental (down)major thirds (5/4)] apart strings make it into a full 41edo tuning.

@KiteGiedraitis Жыл бұрын

Yeah, 41edo is great. Looks like they did make such a video. BTW the Kite guitar is usually tuned not in 4ths but in downmajor 3rds (13\41).

@henrikljungstrand2036 Жыл бұрын

@@KiteGiedraitis Ah thanks Kite. I could have sworn it was fourths (17\41 ~= 4/3), but if you say it is in pental major thirds (13\41 ~= 5/4) then i suppose that's the case.

@henrikljungstrand2036 Жыл бұрын

@@KiteGiedraitis Also yes Dave explained the basics of basics of 41edo in Episode 27 of the Learning Lumatone series, although it seems it is not really 41edo but rather a 41 step spiral of fifths in 94edo (by Cam Taylor). I could be wrong of course, maybe that's just the layout.

@henrikljungstrand2036 Жыл бұрын

@@KiteGiedraitis Here is the link, if you feel too lazy to find it. 😉 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eMyKidGc2bC-lKs.html

@StephanBuchin 9 ай бұрын

2:31 Wow, I had a hard time telling one chord from another. The just and supra sound smoother to my ears.

@cyanpunch6140 9 ай бұрын

Who wrote the short piece at the end, the presenter? It's very good.

@jakefennell8319 18 күн бұрын

id love to hear it as a full song

@davidbostock6933 Жыл бұрын

FWIW "...The 43-tone scale is a just intonation scale with 43 pitches in each octave. It is based on an eleven-limit tonality diamond, similar to the seven-limit diamond previously devised by Max Friedrich Meyer and refined by Harry Partch. ..." Wikipedia It would be nice if keys over 43 could toggle octaves

@henrikljungstrand2036 Жыл бұрын

That would be the Genesis 43-tone JI scale. It is not almost evenly spaced, but can be made so by removing two tones, making it into a JI tuning variant of 41edo. There is a tempered variant of 43-tone Genesis (with no mixup of different JI scale steps) in 58edo.

@Maiz-wq6yx Жыл бұрын

Bro, is the song you played a full song? I loved it and I'd love to listen to it

@Eliseo_M_P Жыл бұрын

I want to see 72-EDO!

@ValkyRiver Жыл бұрын

72-TET would require a non-Bosanquet layout, as it has six circles of fifths and has more notes per octave than the Lumatone does with Bosanquet.

@axenwald9790 Жыл бұрын

I'd love a 72 keys per octave Lumatone too.

@ValkyRiver Жыл бұрын

@@axenwald9790 That is possible. It’s just that the “Bosanquet” layout doesn’t support 72-TET. A different layout would work, though.

@henrikljungstrand2036 Жыл бұрын

@@ValkyRiver There is the Miracle layout i think. Based on the Miracle temperament and Miracle scales. Dividing the perfect fifth into 6 equal steps, then making scales with 10, 11, 21, 31 and 41 steps.

@henrikljungstrand2036 Жыл бұрын

@@axenwald9790 In Miracle temperament, we have a slightly flat perfect fifth 3/2, that is split both in two equal neutral thirds 11/9, and in three equal supermajor seconds 8/7. Half of a supermajor second and simultaneously a third of a neutral third is a kind of semitone lying between 16/15 and 15/14 and representing them both, this semitone is called the Secor. 72edo is almost a perfect tuning for Miracle temperament, extending it uniquely to the 13-limit. So let's tune a Lumatone to 72edo Miracle!

@oscargill423 Жыл бұрын

In my personal opinion, 53-EDO is getting close. There comes a point where the hand gymnastics required to play basic intervals and chords overshadows the better tuning approximation. But that's just me

@edwardleonard5350 5 ай бұрын

I recently compose something that use all 88 keys on the piano - and this obliterate my world of "half notes"

@MarbleFox162 9 ай бұрын

My mom was an incredible pianist, and wasn’t terribly picky about genre’s either. Definitely not a piano snob, but I know that she would’ve absolutely hated this. She did have some things that bothered her, and she wasn’t a fan of songs with a whole lot of semitones, and semitones is pretty much the whole idea of this thing.

@silphv 9 ай бұрын

I don't think that makes any sense really. That's like saying because every key on a normal piano is next to two other notes a semitone away, that semitones are "the whole idea of piano". You don't have to play minor seconds if you don't want to on piano, or any of the various small intervals on this keyboard in 53edo. I can only understand "too many semitones" as music that's loaded with chromatic runs, which straight-up sounds like carnival music because that's what that is, and like, sure. It's not pretty, it's disorienting. No one really holds the fact that carnival music exists against the piano (or organ) itself.

@ariel_haymarket 11 ай бұрын

Is it just me or are the just chords less wobbly in 53?

@the_eternal_student 6 ай бұрын

In 53 edo how many notes does each alphabet have?

@erikolsen1333 8 ай бұрын

We sure wish we could afford one . I’d buy 3 if I could..

@olegpavlov9717 10 ай бұрын

Hey! And why pure major third is not a white key? Is it a standard 53 mapping?

@YourAverageLink 9 ай бұрын

The white keys are the fifths-based or Pythagorean diatonic notes. So, for example, from C, you get to E by stacking 4 fifths, C-G-D-A-E. However, doing so gets you a third that is quite sharp. To get the approximation of 5:4, you have to use a different note. Another way to visualize this, say C to D is a major second 9:8. 5/4 divided by 9/8 = 10/9, which is a different whole tone interval (one step lower).

@dougiejones5719 5 ай бұрын

This instrument costs more than my car lmao

@ili626 5 ай бұрын

I don’t sound or timbre of whatever midi piano is being used

@the_eternal_student 5 ай бұрын

If the chromatic scale is 13 edo, why are comparing 53 to 12 edo?

@ewilcox3211 Жыл бұрын

ᴘʀᴏᴍᴏsᴍ 🤘

@shooshieroberts3913 9 ай бұрын

How velocity sensitive are the keys? Also, how well does it fit into MIDI control? Does it interpret the MIDI mapping for notes, so that it chooses the nearest 12-tone/octave equivalent? Or vice versa if on the receiving end of a controller?

@shooshieroberts3913 9 ай бұрын

Sorry… I should just go to the website and learn about this. I’ll go look up Lumatone. Thanks for the demo.

@katmai90210 3 ай бұрын

dude, i love you but what's up with the hair?

@Turboy65 Жыл бұрын

I tried to play along with this on my guitar. I hate you.

@EphemeralTao Жыл бұрын

"Which is represented by this hat symbol here..." Carat. It's called a "carat".

@cgibbard Жыл бұрын

It's spelled "caret", the "carat" is a unit of mass. Also, sometimes ^ is referred to as a circumflex accent, because the reason it came into existence was to be able to add those on a typewriter by moving the print head back (or not moving it forward) and printing it atop another character. There are various formal and informal contexts which call it a hat as well though, so I'd say that's fine too. In HTML for example, you can get one by writing "&hat;"

@notwithouttext Жыл бұрын

@@cgibbard and because of that we have these ^ ~ ` symbols that previously meant "circumflex", "tilde", and "grave" but are reinterpreted as "up", "wave", and "slanted quote" because they can no longer be used as their original purposes.