Doublet of Defense sounds like a D&D magic item

The mixture of oak tannins with hide glue should also make the glue water-resistant when it dries up because such glue won't rehydrate as easily as pure hide glue. The tannins react with the collagen in the glue and they cross-link it so it becomes insoluble.

I was always a Middle Ages-obsessed kid, and had I found your channel back then I would have learned to speak English 10 years earlier! Absolutely love your videos!

This is such an exciting series Tod! Thanks so much for taking us the whole way through the process. I have been inspired by you to always try and show my methodology whenever I am doing things like testing swords in my videos and I think that everyone is the better for the transparency in this type of experimental archeology.

brilliant, loving the experiments with tannins, glues etc. It all makes logical sense, and all fairly available in the technology of the time.

if the black gambeson idea expressed here worked, it would have potential for a mold based relatively mass production style. Layer up a bunch of linen scraps of various length, impregnate with the glue concoction, and press between a mold. Once the mold is made it would be much faster and require less expertise than custom tailoring (assuming it actually works well).

Another material used in composite armour for eons was horse hoof. Made soft. like plastic, by heating it can be cut, shaped, thached and such, becoming strong again when cooled.

It's always amazing to see what a craftsman good at his craft can do in crafting when he puts himself into improving his craft, always, all the time.

I turned on my living room lights and ceiling fan. When Todd said everything I did everything. (too literal?) I hope that helps. LOL

I suspect there are a number of separate chemical processes going on here. Iron and vinegar together form ferric and ferrous acetates, which further react with tannic acid to form iron-tannin complexes which change the colour of the wood, or in this instance leather. I do not know whether these tannin complexes include Ferric Tannate, Iron oxides definitely react with tannic acid to form ferric tannate. This compound is a solid, stable, black substance which resists further oxidation on an iron substrate, and can be used to fix rust, particularly useful in converting and fixing rust in present in pitting and micro cracking. It does not exhibit the exfoliation tendencies of red rust and is not hygroscopic. The tannate is however, a relatively porous material and freely soaks up thin oils for maximum rust protection. I have used this for years in conserving old iron tools. I think it quite possible that any tannates formed within the fibres of the leather, might well soak up [and perhaps bond with?] the hide glue in a similar way thus contributing to overall material strength. If my guess about the ferric tannate involvement is correct, in the method you are using, by far the greatest proportion of the iron would be coming from the iron filings stipulated in the recipe, rather than the small amount added in the vinegar/iron mix you added. It may well be that powdered rust might be a better bet than Iron filings, indeed in historical times, such filings may well have contained a high proportion of rust. Given that the leather and glue is a wet gloopy mess, any clean filings might convert to rust [and hence tannates], during the long drying period If memory serves, The optimal conditions for the formation of tannates from rust and tannic acid occur at a pH of between 2 and 3. The amount of vinegar added to your large vat is unlikely to have much effect on the overall pH of the glue. Again the low pH [acidity] required is likely to come from the tannic acid leaching out from within the leather, since hide glues are fairly neutral, perhaps with a tendency to slightly acidic. Be interesting to try some small test pieces to examine the 'sandwich' union between the two pieces of leather, made with glass/filings and glass/rust. Maybe test pH ? I imagine other folks here could give better insights on possible reactions as my studies in chemistry are over half a century out of date. Keep up the good work Todd .... OG

In Czech there are many archaic words for gambesons - mainly "prošívanice" (something padded), "krzno" (coat) and "smolenice" (something with resin/tar).

Man, I'd love to have a conversation with this man. Total history geek (huge compliment), who leaves no stone unturned.

Black Gambeson ! Yay !! Earlier than 15th century, the King's Mirror (Norway 13th century) recommends to wear "thoroughly blackened" gambeson underneath and on top of the mail armour!

I really struggle to express how much I appreciate being able to watch things like this, its all just so interesting.

I love that little stab about black leather. Thanks Todd.

Also to note is that glycerin is a plasticizer for hide glue, so if the chap boiling up the hide glue happened to include some extra bits of cartiledge or sinew in his glue pot, the result would be noticeably less brittle than a pure hide glue.

didn't realise there were viking societies, didn't think they'd not know how to blacken leather given it's the same process for ebonising wood... and was known about 2K years before the 'vikings'... and would've been easily accomplished given they used peat bogs for iron, and peat (the ph of the substrate) + iron = iron tannate. So the water from the area they collected peat would've stained their clothes, skin, and leathers... also (while completely outside the geographical scope, but within the time period), you could make a square of period aztec armour, they used salt brine rather than glue to infuse, their version of a gambeson, fabric with salt crystals to the same effect.

Appreciate the detailed explanations Tod. This type of experimental archaeology is absolutely fascinating. Also, your thoroughness and methodology is very impressive.

Interesting stuff once again Tod! Making hide glue in an iron pot is a bit dubious choice here, though. Manufacturers of hide glue are quite explicit in mentioning that they should not be in contact with metallic parts as they will oxidize the glue and reduce their strength.

John Major (1512), who wrote that the common people among the highlanders rush into battle having for body armour a linen tunic manifoldly sewn and painted or daubed with pitch, and covered with deerskin. Bishop John Lesly, around 1578, is more precise, saying the Scots Highlanders wear a coat of mail "over a leather jerkin, stout and of handsome appearance, which we call an acton." Some do suspect that the pitch and leather was more for waterproofing or keeping their mail dry instead of adding protection.

Can you try a layer of sinew? "Schilde des Spätmittelalters und der Frühen Neuzeit" Has a lot of information about shield construction. Including an original example of a hard layer like the one discussed in this video.

I wonder if the "Black Gambeson" was actually something similar to oilskin canvas? They had the technology, at least in the 1500s they did, since they were using oilskin canvas for sails by then, and oilskin coats made today are notoriously tough, so I imagine multiplying that by 30 would only be that much tougher, and relatively waterproof to boot. The process doesn;t turn the fabric jet black, but it does discolor it and make it darker for sure.

Just a thought on hide vs casein glues. Both glues go back millennia and would have been in fairly common usage and made using easily available materials. Hide glue , however, softens with the application of heat particularly so, when a bit on the damp side. Casein glue does not seem to be much affected by either heat or water. Perhaps the composite material formed with leather, hide glue and glass/iron gave better 'arrow resistance 'in northern countries, which might have been somewhat negated in warmer Mediterranean climates, where the much more heat stable casein glues could have offered a distinct edge ?

Thanks for the updates and clarifications.

well, i tried the ebonizer solution added with the rabbit skin glue. It sure colored the leather, well and fast ! But it don't seem harder than the process without the ebonizer recipe. It still can be modeled and the blade resistance is the same : i can draw with my fingernail, so... Still a fun experiment to do ! I think there is more than one bath : jelly, skin glue, ending with bee wax... Someone told me about salted solution, but i have doubts ps : maybe collophane ? I'm pretty sure we never found an entire recipe in the old books. Such a knowledge is precious, soooo precious... pps : on turnshoes they use pine goudron and fine earth... instead of skin glue and fine iron... In medieval times glass is so rare... and so precious ! in can't imagine a carolingian recipe using this

If you think you had a tough day, remember you could be a piece of gambison inside Tod's workshop.

looking forward to the testing. black gambeson sounds like a mystery that needs to be solved :)

"Mum! Dad's doing something weird to the BBQ again!"

Now i'm 1000% interested in this next film! for obvious research purposes (is lying through his teeth, as he is writing an RPG system where one of the materials of armour is hardened cloth)

I had a leather pouch got wet and had my mail gloves left on it for a, few hours. Left blue grey spots all over it. They went black yes but over the years developed into holes so watch that process. It's like very slow acid.

i demand more experiments like this. well, not like this, but with actual testing. exciting stuff, but such a tease.

And of course the vinegar is acidic and will degrade the leather unless you neutralize it. Iron and vinegar solutions were used a lot in the American Civil War to stain cloth and leather. I have done experiments myself with it. It is a good dye, but it bleeds a lot.

Got to make you wonder how they came across the mix of dog turds and oak tannin being the magic solution of tanning leather.

Yup, the linothorax (literally "linen chest") was, in fact, layers of linen impregnated with glue!

5:40 I think something similar about black gambesons is also mentioned in a 13th century norwegian source on how should a the king personal retinue arm themselves

I'm really excited to see if putting a bunch of sand a iron filings between the layers, actually does anything. I could see it possibly creating more friction for the arrowhead.

Tod glad you made this because until now I had not seen the first video for this project, and they (both) are very interesting. Thanks!

Well thanks for teaching me what the tanning process required back in the days of old! I love knowing small tid bits like that!

This is awesome, and yeah I turned everything on, and if I don't open youtube in a while and come back with 10+ notification, your video is always the first I click!

Blacken it in the usual way is the first thing i thought of when i saw that

The British museum have a celtic shield made from bark that could be interesting to make and test.

It seems like you're making a variation of iron gall ink, which mixes copperas/rusty water with tannic acid from oak galls. I'm the "scribe" in our living history group up here and I make this all the time for the public.

French troops are recorded as wearing blackened linen gaiters as late as the 1780s. This would suggest that blackened linen is some type of water proofing.

I like how you are in tune with your audience, getting feedback and such.

I love these work-in-progress vids. Really do a good job highlighting your thought process

Oh, the glue thin already has a modern counterpart with canvas and titebons three and shellack. A Scadian figures that so he could make dirt cheep rigid armor

The 13th Century Norwegian book "King's Mirror" also mentions blackened gambeson. Some translators have translated it as tarred, some just as black, some as a blackened jacket. I am guessing there is disagreement there, too.

I wonder what advantage ground glass has/might have over sand. Sure seems like it would be easier to send little Johnny down to the river bank than to smash and grind a manufactured material.

For anyone like myself who has been trying this method of black dye without success, the trick seems to be to wet the leather first. If I mix iron filings and vinegar and apply it to dry leather, I get a very nice grey, but it is decidedly not black. If wet the leather first, however, I get a very nice black. It isn't the same as modern chemical blacks, but a little oil or wax should make it close enough to not matter (though, I don't think it would be able to match USMC Black).

For reasons unbeknownst to me I find that hide glue stiffened natural cordage is very brittle in the end. As in it breaks quite easy, where the cord would have been impossible to break by hand before. I suspect the hide glue is not the way to go for natural cordage and you need to use something more plastic, like waxy pitch or birch bark tar. But I cannot wait to see what the sandpaper composite does.

Thank you very much for this wonderful content

My arming dublet is coated in bees wax to make it more resistance too stapping/piercing , but I have only done some small tests it seems to work, but I need to do some more.

Nice to see the spark-damaged T-shirt. Shows evidence of plenty of grinding.

always fascinating stuff tod

I just got to the part where you dipped the leather into the vinigaroon. That's what that stain is called. It was used to stain wood too. With maple the rust gives it a red hue and the vinegar gives a brown hue, but that is best with the harder parts of the wood turn red and the softer (the curl or figure) turns a darker brown. Basically its an acid stain like Aquefortis (nitric acid30%-water70& and iron filings). Try the vinigaroon on ash or oak or walnut.

Your merch cuts are getting better :)

Yes! Been waiting for this one!

I love this channel, thank you for your work.

One day we'll be able to afford to buy Tod a new t-shirt.

Very interesting experiment. I will be looking forward to seeing the results of your testing.

Love your work Tod.

I can remember reading a book, many years ago, where they had recipes to make leather more resilient / harder. Cooking the leather and treating it with honey, boiling the leather and hammering it was also mentioned. Could there be processes which have been lost to history that could affect the leather even more than the treatments we know of ? It is a fascinating subject as could the natural leather back then be different from what we recognise as normal leather now, due to breeding etc.

0:34 I am altering the test, pray I do not alter it any further...

It's interesting to watch a skilled craftsman go through the process of creation and iteration, especially when there's a consideration of "how would they have done it?".

looking forward to the next step in this experiment as always

Ah, another informative video. *is ready to take notes*

Another fantastic video, thank you for your work.

I really appreciate the deep consideration! Yo're really driving forward at least my understanding of historical arms & armor! 🙂

I still think you should be investigating the Zulu process for leather shields.

Might be late to the party but I've always been impressed by how neat your intro/logo bit is.

It all comes back to balance. No one defence is perfect against all attacks. There are pros and cons with pretty much everything.

Yesss, it's most interesting. Part III please 😁

Great video as always Todd, love your work!

edit: adding something of a translation to the old Swedish? I think it is old Swedish. edit the second: spellcheck There is as far as i know only one actual reference to glued cloth armour. It is from Scandinavia in the 15th century and it involves fish glue and mastic Copied from Johan S Moens post from myarmoury thread "tarred linnen gambeson ":Tak fiska lim giorth aff maghommen, viij lod, mastic ii lod, oc blanda wäl samman Sidhan lima thär mädh sammam tre äller fira faalth läroffth, oc apthera pa nokre formo som fäller segh äffther likamsens skapnath, oc tha thet är törkath bither ey järn pa thet harniskith My attempt at a translation: Take 8 weights of fishglue from "maghommen"(idk), 2 weights of mastic and mix well. then use it to glue three or four pieces of lärft (I think planeweave linen is what it means today but i am uncertain what it meant back then) attach to a form (idk but I think that om "fäller segh äffther likamsens skapnath" part means "that is made i the shape of a body") and when it is dried iron cannot bite into this breastplate

quite curious to see how it behaves. in principle it is nearly identical to modern ballistic armor, which uses a layer of hard ceramic and a backing of aramid fibers held together with a hard rubber coating. the purpose of the ceramic is to break, bleeding off the energy of the bullet impact allowing the aramid to catch and stop it. the glass and iron filings would serve a similar function to the ceramic, while the glued leather functions as the rubber binder, and the wood beneath the aramid. i also wonder if the specific mention of a brass mortar was more important than it might appear. brass being relatively soft might allow for the glass to only be ground so fine. and if the glass is functioning similar to ceramic in modern armor, then you wouldnt want powder, but instead small chunks that can take an impact and then crack and break thus bleeding off energy.

great video as always

The level of history being explored is college phd level

In the text "Conservation of Leather and Related Materials": Kite & Thomson: Routldge (2006) pp94-96: postillon boots used heated colophony pine resin, bees wax, and p98 details pitch being used on the raw flesh side. Apparently the "pitching technique" used for carriage boots was accurately duplicated from: De Garsault (1767) "Art du Cordonnier" in Arts du Coir (1984) Geneva, Slatkine. Page 97 describes the molecular changes leather undergoes- some heat application methods post boiling allow for rigid formation, others allow semi-rigid. But the fact it must be vegetable-tanned especially oak-tanned is very important. As for tanning- the video by The Woodland Escape: How to Tan Hides: A Tutorial | PIONEER LIFE CIRCA 1700's states deer hide is first soaked in an alkaline solution (wood ash), then de-haired and de fleshed- the alkaline loosening the hair, then rinsed, then put in an acidic solution to tan (animal feces (Native Americans used deer poop) but apparently early settlers used vinegar and vinegar was produced in huge quantities by early settlers- thus it must have been a very important product- and one would imagine a time not so removed from the Renaissance- as important and widely produced during the Middle Ages- especially as people were very frugal and didn't let things go to waste like a bad wine, ale or beer.

yay! been especially waiting for this one :) pt 1 was brilliant.

Cannot wait for the next episode ❤

I love this investigation into middle ages composite armor

Forgot to show a similar closeup of the leather sample going black :)

I usually HATE it when people say "I'll come back to that later..." Firstly, because as Tod found out, sometimes they just forget to come back to it. And it's not like we're going to remind them, because by that point, we've forgotten about it, too! Secondly, because if they DO remember to come back to it, the information that they then present is shorn of context and thus urgency. In other words, by the time they 'come back to it,' we no longer care about that information. We're no longer invested in finding out what more they had to say about this thing that is no longer prominent in our thoughts. Imagine if the first Lord of the Rings movie ended as soon as Aragorn came upon Boromir, finding him with arrows stuck in his chest... And that's it. There's no death scene, no farewells, no funeral, nothing. We don't know if he died or not! When the second movie starts, all we see is that Boromir isn't with them. We forget about it and we hear nothing more about it until, in the third movie, Pipin describes to Denethor what happened to Boromir (giving us the 'before' scene) and Frodo has Faramir explain about the funeral boat (giving us the 'after' scene) allowing us to piece together the final fate of Boromir. Only it does so such a long time after the event itself, that Boromir's death is shorn of any emotions that it would otherwise have elicited. We no longer care how he died, or why. Admittedly, there are- sometimes- good reasons for talking or for telling stories in this way (in the "I'll come back to that later," kind of way) but it's frequently over-used.

I've read that the Aztecs would soak their cloth armour in salty brine and then when it dries the salt crystals would somehow reenforce the armour. similar concept and probably fairly easy to reproduce and test.

It's like Chobam Armour for a shield. Should work..

Never heard of the dog excrement way before. Stale urine and oak bark was the way I heard they tanned leather.

Something I've noticed with carbon fiber is that rolling and pressing out the resin makes it stronger than only pressing. I assume it has to do with getting out more air, as rolling combined with vacuum pressing (you know, the proper way of layering carbon fiber) is even better. I wouldn't be surprised at all if mostly drying a stack of glue soaked linen in a clothes press would be a technique they used. Also, I'm curious if part of the function of the glass is so any blade cutting it gets dulled faster. In humid weather hide glue (even the water resistant kind) gets a little soft ime, kind of like hard plastic. Compare glassfiber reinforced nylon with regular nylon, then try to cut it. The glass messes up HSS quick enough to notice, so regular steel weapons would suffer even worse I think. You should try case hardening a few arrows to see if you can crack the hardened layer! That alone would cause burrs that would reduce penetration I think.

Gambeson covers quite a bit of ground under different names almost meaning the same thing. Even though they went under different names at different times, Haketon, Wambais, Pourpoint and Gambeson, There were only two types one to be worn under plate armour (expensive) and one to be worn by infantrymen (archers) (cheap). The Gambeson of 31 layers of linen and one of canvas, usually deer skin, was for wearing under armour. The padded, sometimes to width of four fingers, of the archers were tubes of linen sewn together that had been stuffed with cotton waste, cedral, buckram and tow. Cedral and buckram remain a mystery but tow was the off cuts from hemp rope or okram sometimes tarred. The under armour gambeson that you are holding would not have been visible so being coded black red or blue does not seem likely. The black gamberson may have something to do with the stuffing ingredients which leeched out when wet and were a superior filling we will never know until we decipher cedral and buckam

Best channel on KZfaq.

"Lovely dog excrement". - This has major meme clip vibes.

tod really is what happens when you max out the science tree in syd meyers civilization

Great video, can’t wait for the next one.

If you put ferric chloride on leather it turns blue. At least that’s what happened when I spilled some and it splashed on a piece of leather.

I've only just started following your channel recently. You know at first I was confused as to who the second Tod was that you were introducing: Tod from Tod's Workshop AND Tod Cutler. I've since found both websites 😂

No shooting today? Tod be like „I have altered the test, pray I don’t alter it any further“

Very interesting! I had never heard of these at all. I did wonder about the history of the mayoral chains though.

Linothorax was linen and glue, that's correct. And it certainly wasn't cheap or low-level armor, Alexander the Great is depicted and described wearing such armor (there's a very famous mosaic of the battle of Issos where he's shown wearing such armor). Basically, it was supposed to be the ideal armor, because it was lighter than metal armor, but sturdy enough to protect against most battlefield weapons of the time. I don't really think it can be compared with a gambeson though, because Linothorax is rigid and a Gambeson should be at least partially flexible. I've never tested one myself, but I've seen footage of arrows and spears tested against such armor and basically, it absorbed all the energy - there's enough flex in it so the weapon doesn't just punch through, but enough rigidity to protect the wearer.

This reminded me that FandabiDozi recently did a video looking at targes and testing their bullet resistance. Not the most scientific but definitely interesting and well worth a look.

I think you have been looking at the term "boiling" wrong. OED says it is " vapor and bubbles" I don't thinks that means today's rolling boil. I don't think they could have gotten the old pots to a full a rolling boiling.

Ive tanned leather all my life using various methods.Ive heard of poop tanning but me thinks after a soaking rain it reminds you and as anyone near what hole you got the mix from. Good luck.