I think they're losing customers in a few ways: 1. If you already have a wave or any other competitive multitool why would you spend that type of money to "upgrade"? 2. If you're new to the market why would you spend that much when there are so many options at much better price points?

I think a great move they can do is make an Arc Light. Change Magnacut to 154cm. A celling price of $170 would be fantastic.

I hope they come out with something updated, but cheaper than the Arc. I would also love to see a new smaller tool from them to replace all the discontinued models.... a micro Free tool would be cool.

I’ve carried a modded P2 for my new construction plumbing job for the last 4 years. It’s gotten me out of many tricky situations up on ladders or in crawlspaces when I’ve needed a tool in a pinch. Freaking love the P2.

As someone who often reaches for their multitool while on a ladder with only 1 hand free, the Free P2 and P4 make a lot of sense to me. I even like the partially serrated blade on the P2 (even though I don't normally like them on my pocket knives)... I often have to rip through wires that would quickly dull a straight edge blade, but the serrated portion of the blade tears right through them with ease.

I think Leatherman could be moving to luxury tool zone. Like, really great, American-made tools at super high prices, and litter the other companies duke it out for the average or cheap tool markets. Simply refuse to join the race to the bottom that seems to be going on now. It gets them out of the quality-control issues and the current problem where it is hard to hire. Fewer tools made at greater profit per tool.

I am not spending $239 on a multitool. I don't care how good it is. How about LM design a Juice S2 size Mini-Arc with a pocket clip and a 154cm blade, MAYBE a small bit exchanger, 3 d Phillips, GOOD external scissors, and a diamond file? Compete with the SOG Power Pint, slightly larger, with a better tool set and esp better scissors. How about they re-issue the Wave under a new patent with a better tool set for $99. Bet they'd sell tons of them...

The only thing keeping me from getting an arc currently is the price point and the flex. $230 I think isn’t that bad, but too many things keep popping up that put the arc on the back burner. Getting filament, kickstarters for books, games, and so on. For my distracted brain it’s like ok save… oh what’s that? Where the flex as I configured it is $91. That is enough to save and then grab. The toolset for the arc is just really really good.

I guess I am happy that I own all four that you showed tonight. Keep up the good work Dom.

I like the Wave, I have used one for years. I really like the P4 and still carry it. For me, I put the Wave in a pack and the P4 in my pocket. For day to day, the P4 is way easier to use and I enjoy it. But if you need a compact tool box, a fresh Wave in your bag is hard to beat… Unless you have a SwissTool… Great video! I value your opinion on all things multi tools and EDC.

We will have to keep an eye out for them to go on sale at places. May have to pick a couple up if we find them at good prices. thanks Dom

Good summary of the Leatherman situation. But count me in as one of the ones that just can't justify the cost. There are too😂many other options at lower price points. I believe Leatherman will have to rethink their market strategy.

At least they're smart enough (and self aware enough) to have kept the Wave in production instead of trying to force people into buying the new models. I was almost sold on an Arc until I saw they run their Magnacut on the low side of hardness. If they're going to pitch it as being "the one tool you need to carry" then the knife blade needs to be absolutely up to pocket knife standards.

I have the ARC, Free P2, Free P4 and I said it on one of your live streams that I just like the Surge and now more lately the black coated Wave, just for the weight difference. It just feels more like a true tool that can handle some abuse and seems to break in just lovely over time to the point it opens as easily as the Free style of tools! Of course I'm the guy that no matter what, if a new tool comes out, I'm jumping on it!

Great video! Leatherman really needs to clean house, review their cost structure, and get back to basics! There’s no reason for me to buy an over price tool. When I can purchase a very good tool for $35 - $40! It’s very nice to have many tools for the price of one. Yes, I like having a multitool in my desk at work, in my desk at home, in my car, in my truck, on my workbench at home, ……… I would love to see Leatherman get out and attend some trade shows! The need to get out and talk with customers about their tools and how the tools are being used. I would also love for Leatherman get some ratchets in stock. I have been trying to get a new one 18 months. I really hope that Leatherman can figure things out! Before the competition over takes them!

The FREE series P2, P4, and the ARC -- I believe are in a category all on their own. You really need to look at them individually for your purpose/needs. I thoroughly enjoy carrying these tools and have brought a sense of enjoyment with user experience. These tools and the innovations have me looking forward to future designs.

i wanted a p4 but waited for the ark!

Love my Leathermans. But all of the ones I own or used to own are discontinued. Carry 3 on my belt every day: Charge+ G10, Charge+ TTi (crimper pliers), and Charge. Lost my RadioShack Squirt with the wire strippers. LM needs to stop discontinuing their great specialty tools or they will disappear.

I EDC a modded free p4, i just bought an additional backup (due to this video) which means I will have 3 backups that have never been used, but for me as a leatherman collector/user who owns most of the released current models the free p4/arc are my favorite, I just like the body a bit better on the free p4.

Last month, Sportsmen’s Warehouse marked them for close out, I jumped on a P2.

Thank You for the Clarity in your Update, also the gamblers Prediction of the Christmas 24' deadline. For what it's worth I Too would lay odds you had chosen the proverbial 'Line n the Sand ". On an Observation I.e. [U S A ] Stamping, I Cannot State d Sublime Import this has n Myriad of Ways.. A Gift, Dad to this Loving Son, Joe Syms jr.

I bought a Free P4 near launch and it was a desk fidget toy and nothing more. Surge for work and Wave+ for carry. Then I picked up the P4 again and the usability is incredible.. for 90% of my out of work carry needs. At home I have a tool box. In my car I have a small toolkit. The Wave barely gets a look in!!

Excellent points. The Arc is great (except for the price) and the demand has indicated that the FREE technology with the right implements will sell rather well. I have both the P2/P4 and I really like them; my favorite is the P2 which has been my EDC for a few years now. Although I recently got the Arc and really like it as well, the price point is rather high which maybe holding some back. Here's hoping LM will do an updated model (plus, P2+/P4+) but keeping the price relatively close to the originals.

I think Leatherman should keep doing what they are currently doing. I love my Bibury and have got 2x Roxons coming in the mail.

Leatherman has already provided the right multi-tool for me now that you told us about the redesigned blade on the Bond. The Bond, plus the removable bit driver, plus a Victorinox Farmer X, plus a Spyderco Salt Native 5, and I think my EDC will be set. I guess I need to get the Bond soon given the way Leatherman keeps discontinuing models without warning. That said, I do find Leatherman's development of these next generation magnet technology multi-tools interesting to follow from afar. They do have a problem with all the budget brands now able to copy their old designs. The budget brands are priced so well you can just throw 'em into your Amazon cart on a whim, whereas with Leatherman you feel worried about paying and then regretting it. Not to mention, if you get the Arc you will have to keep a close watch on it so no one steals it. lol

Like you, I've really come to appreciate the P2/P4, especially the P2 for the reasons you've laid out. I think the relatively simple toolset is a reasonable compromise for a tool with only two long implements. The P4 is less convincing, but I think adding a full length file (I'd prefer in place of the saw, but I think I'm in the minority there) would make the extra bulk worth it over the P2. I've thought about modding the P2 and P4 to add an Arc bit driver on both and Arc file on the P4, but I agree that an update to these tools is inevitable and I'd hate to spend a bunch of money on Arc parts on Ebay only for Leatherman to offer almost the same thing from the factory. I guess we'll see what comes at the end of the year - if there are no upgraded models out by then, then it's probably worth spending the money on mods.

I broke down and bought a ARC and love it. With that said, I feel Leatherman has abandoned the folks that got them to the forty year mark. I was disappointed that they didn’t offer a more readily available forty year commemorative tool to thank the guys/ gals that got them all this way. I love my Leatherman tools, but have a Roxon Flex on preorder to try something different. I’m giving the Chinese a try, we will see how I like it!

I like the free platform though I have never had one they look useful, but to have an updated toolset would help a lot. Is there any word on the release date on the ROXON Swiss army style knife?

Leatherman really had a big fail on P2, P4. I sold my P2 to a friend and just got it back. I missed it. It's really great minimalist tool. If they've put straight edge instead of combo would have been different story. With P4 as well, few things should have been different and they could have a winner, long file and bit holder and that's it. But somebody made wrong choice. Cheers

Con mucho respeto,... lo que Leatherman debe hacer es agregar un Punzón a la Wave. La Wave ha demostrado ser la insignia de Leatherman por su precio, tamaño, peso y funcionalidad, pero lamentablemente carece de un punzón. La Leatherman ARC aunque posee una magnífica Hoja carece de un filo perlado. La Surge lo tiene TODO,... pero para edc se vuelve demasiado Voluminosa y pesada. En fin... Leatherman tiene la última palabra en el diseño se sus multiherramientas. Gracias por tus vídeos.

Give the p2 the arc treatment!

Hello, interesting vid and great insight! I always learn something. I wonder why Leatherman has moved the P2, P4 solely to Amazon (per Lthrmn website), and not sold off their own site? Is that their way of clearing out a product before discontinuing?

I saw the winners of a contest of some sort,come by their factory and put together their dream combination of desired tools and blades,and I realized then,they should offer some kind of customizing app through which they allow everyone to “BUILD THEIR OWN”,with things such as color combination and even name engraving. I genuinely think, that would have been a hit. Especially at prices like the ARK (which has proven to be to much for what they offer). They dropped the ball on a huge opportunity to give customers and fans what they want… not what everyone else has! I’m a SURGE owner and user for about ten years (only on work days),and it’s beginning to show some wear. I’ve been trying to get a newer ,improved version,but honestly,it’s hard to find something “better” at a reasonable price!

What I would like to see is a $200 or less Arc slim model and have that replace the P2. The non-plier tools on the Free series don't compare favorably to the ones on the Arc. Take the existing Arc and remove the micro-driver and the can opener. And/or produce a "super-slim" model that would also remove the saw and file. I know some people like the micro-driver but I think it's out of place in a full size multitool. The tool is just too heavy to have a driver intended for such low torque. I'd rather carry a small reversible eyeglass screwdriver. The can opener is kind of a relic IMO. I'm not opposed to having a can opener on hand, but if that's your jam you can carry something like a P38 opener with your EDC. I've never needed a can opener on a multi-tool, and the few times I need a can opener at all I'm at work or home when I have one anyway. I know neither option would save much weight nor cost (I think Magnacut should be retained for the entire Arc series to retain the association) but it would cut down on the thickness. I like the Arc real well but it's just a little too thick for regular pocket carry, especially in the warmer months where I'm wearing shorts instead of pants. So now I carry my Arc in my EDC sling bag and a Compact SAK in my pocket. A slimmer Arc would appeal a little more to the folks who value a high-quality pocket knife but don't want to carry something quite so bulky. This would be similar to the appeal of the Skeletool, but more functional and better quality.

Loved the Wave…but love & carry my ARC everyday.

Incredible... they are already gone from the website! I just picked up a Signal at a local scout store for under $80 because the scouts are no longer carrying the brand... Love it.....great to alternate between that and my wave... it is a bummer about them not officially being "USA made" anymore.

Personally, I think once one of the Chinese brands build a multi-tool with upgraded steels (both for the blade and the other tools), it'll be game over for Leatherman. There isn't enough innovation coming out of Leatherman to justify their asking prices. I think Victorinox can limp along for longer as their USP is their higher build quality.

I really enjoyed the concept of the free series, but I didn’t end up pulling the trigger until the arc came out purely because of the tool set I had no interest in the blades steel It was a nice bonus though. I enjoy how it has both types of drivers and the correct outside Big tools. And they got rid of the nail necks which I hate with a passion. I carry mine every single day and use almost every tool on it.

They're discontinuing it because it competes with the Arc. The Arc isn't selling as well as they would like, otherwise they wouldn't have to plaster the ads everywhere and the tool would be hard to get.

I was avoiding the arc due to price, but learned I was eligible for the student 30% discount. That was the tipping point for me to purchase it for my line of work. I also just want USA made tools even though they come at a high cost. The student discount lowered the arc to $171 out the door.

Would like to see a video on what you thank the new perfect p4 would be

You and I don’t always agree, but I really like what you are saying!

Hot take, but I think it’s the collector’s that keep companies like leatherman and victorinox in business. I barely use my leatherman’s yet I have 9 of them. I probably have 20 Mt’s in total not because I need them but because I love them. I will be picking up a free p2 on Amazon in the near future.

Will he Friskars scissors from a Gerber 400 or 600, fit into the Powerpint? If so, it would perfect the Power Pint...

Like to see a stop on the garage series , and a focus on brining out multi tools for the mass instead of the happy few

I really hope they keep the styling of the original free series going, i love the look of the dimpled scales, just a very clean almpst retro design to me

Spent six years on the fence about upgrading from the wave. Guess I’ll stick with my wave.

We need the changes on these that you talked about and they can be called P3 and P5.

Valid assessment

Sad for me. I really like my P2 & P4. Perfect truck driver tool. Cut seals, tire tread depth gauge and a knife to cut straps of deflate air bags they put in between loaded pallets of merchandise all with one handed flip for ease of pliers. A screw driver was never that hard to get the right size out of the truck. Almost never need a file. But that's the trouble of designing a multitool to accommodate the needs of many different people.

Thank you i hope you're correct is there a chinese version of the p series

I EDC a Signal and it’s plenty alongside a fixed blade. Wave+ and P4 in a couple other roles tho.

Wave and P4 have different concepts around their tools set But I do actually think that P4 is better in most cases 1. One hand opening for everything - you can use it wearing gloves and deploy tools while holding something in another hand. 2. Stronger flathead/prybar that doesn't snap 3. Much better scissors 4. More build-in screwdriver options 5. Longer screwdrivers 6. Stronger pliers. 7. Reamer/awl The only weak point is the small file, but it still works for the task multitool usually tackles IMHO as a tool for the actual work in a shop/field, P4 is more useful and handy P4's concept: speed up your work by carrying less and replacing some dedicated tools with it Wave's concept: you mostly use dedicated tools so it's your backup for the tools you use not so often and don't want to keep around all the time. Thus I guess wave can be a better EDC. But: no prybar, and screwdriving capabilities are limited Any recessed screw on the way - and you're screwed. What kind of tool is that? I don't need them bits if I have to deal with such significant limitations.

Hi, I've sold my P2 to a friend, and got a Curl. Few months ago asked my friend if he wants to swap them, and I've got the P2 back. I've missed it. For basic EDC it's great, just the blade sucks. Do you know if the damascus blade from Aliexpres is decent, is it worth to get one? I hope they bring them back, with revised tool set that make sense for us, the users, also to ask the community, what we want and need. Unfortunately decisions are made by a management that is detached from the end users. That's my opinion. Cheers 👍

The Free P4 was a disappointment, but the things that it got right are what convinced me to get an Arc to replace my aging Wave.

I haven’t found anything to compete with the Wave. It’s such a fantastic MT.

Another great video!!

I loved my P4 after I modded it for my use. They need do dump the bunk ass design for the new cutters and put in a better steel on the P series. I'd also like to see a blacked out version

I knew this tool wasn’t going to last. Frankly, I feel it overstayed its welcome. Leatherman drifted from its core market and it cost them. Now they are behind

Great points. I hope Leatherman is subscribed to your channel.

I understand the lineup changes over time, but it seems Leatherman is focusing on customization and colors over a wide range of options. Sad to see the pocket and keychain options go away. This has got me looking at SAK and separate tool options and pouches over single multi-tool Leathermans. Didn't think I'd be looking at SOG, Roxon, and other brands.

Is there another multitool that has the “free” movements ?

The P4 and P2 are still on Amazon, sold by Leatherman. It went out of stock for a month a few months ago but it's been back in stock for a while now now. I don't know if they are selling the rest of they're stock or keeping them off they're website, to push the Arc.

So now that it’s officially discontinued, will the remaining P2/P4 be discounted? I hope you’re right about replacements with updated toolsets!

I’m not feeling your assessment on this one Dom. The chaos that has been the Leatherman lineup the past few years has left me and I think a lot of other folks kind of sour. But more importantly, I think the clones are so good and so much less expensive now, that it’s hard to justify an actual Leatherman. It feels like they’re drifting aimlessly. I didn’t buy the Arc and am not planning on it, but I did buy the TSA NexTool keychain, and that was well worth it. I mean, how much does the average Joe want to spend on a multi tool anyway?

Am currently toting the SQT. I HATE that it is Chinese, but it serves my need, EXCEPT It needs a full size file in place ot the straight blade. Looking for one that fits... Anybody got a lead?

So if the proposed plan for Leatherman is a "junior Arc", essentially, that has that toolset but is cheaper... what would that look like? What would they remove/change? The obvious one is a non-Magnacut blade, but that would likely greatly undermine the Arc (because, really, 95% of people don't actually need Magnacut). So what else should they remove to turn an Arc into a P2-B that would be competitive against the Wave+, assorted clones, Roxon, and still be at a good price for them and customers? Personally I'm in the "I already have a cheaper knock-off (Bibury surge clone) and I don't use it enough to need anything better" bucket, so I'm likely not interested anyway. But I'm curious what you (or anyone else) think a cheaper Arc-Jr would look like.

They should make an Arc without a Saw and File;and make it thinner, lighter and cheaper. Heck, one of the Leatherman guys uses a Free P2 with an Arc blade and Arc inner tools.

I am imaging they are going to do one of the following with the "Free" tech... 1. Put out a Less Premium Arc, let's say an "Arc Light"; maybe call it the Spark 2. Introduce the "Free" tech into their existing line of tool, Imagine a Skeletool, Signal, or Wave with it 3. The best part of the Free series was being able to use it 1 handed, I really think the pliers should have been Spring Loaded like the "Garage Arc" was.

I want the Arc but in the UK its £259 ($328), not a chance am I paying that so I bought the surge at just less than half the price. Its heavy but does everything.

I don’t really care for the Free technology, super steels and aesthetics. I just want a well built, rugged, simple tool that works. Nothing fancy needed. If I want quick deployment of pliers, I’m grabbing one of my Gerber MPs. I mostly carry my modified Rebar though. It does everything I need and then some for less than $100.

I never liked the naming scheme for the "FREE" series, it broke with the typical sort of names Leatherman uses and was too wordy. So hopefully they're planning to refresh their lineup with a new series that replaces the P2/P4 with a couple of new names along with an improved loadout. For the replacement of the P4, I don't see how they could go wrong with something that's basically just the Arc with a commodity steel blade, no included bits kit, and no coatings. As for the P2, basically the same idea minus the saw and the file.

I've gone back and forth with my Free P2. Loved it, then for a while I hated it, then grew to like it again. Leatherman should just do a revamped version, give it a bit driver, remove the extra flat head, do something creative with the mini file

Glad I got my P2 when I did. Perfect for my edc

I could justify the price of the Leatherman Arc for myself if the Magnacut steel was well tempered. But based on the tests, it is tempered at 57-59 HRC. Why do I need a Porshe on wheels from a cart?

I wonder if the potential "clone" pressure will make Leatherman rethink their price point. The clones are getting better and better (for the value).

The market has caught up to leatherman and they haven't noticed.

They should do a Leatherman PX where you just customize it to what you want like the roxon tool. Choose 2 or 4 scales, and then the big and small tools that will fit the scales.

I'd like to see Leatherman make something smaller like the sog powerpint. Something that's pocket-able and similar to the arc but smaller. That's wishful thinking cause I don't see them making smaller sized multitools. I like my t4 but miss the Pliers sometimes.

Love my P2.

So much for that 20yr warranty I have all free series tools except their knife collection and this genuinely makes me not want to obtain any more Leatherman tools going forward. I have a P2 that's genuinely been in my pocket since I got it to do basically all I've needed from it and now I feel like my P4 will just be a collecter piece

Bye bye P4. No loss. I like my ARC but hated my P4

I like the look and I like the idea of easy open but I can't pay the money they ask for "wingman" tools.

I hope the make the ark like the charge is for the wave same toolset with just a different blade steel and slight differences in handle looks

If the P4 is re-introduced as a budget Arc they will have something for everybody in their lineup. Keeping the P2 and P4 as they are with the price increase will give them a lineup that nobody wants. Quality control has to be addressed as well, otherwise this discussion is pointless.

The only leatherman I own was a discontinued juice CS4 and I don't even use it cause I carry the next tool mini sailor more cause of it's light weight and I keep a full sized multitool in my car for emergencies. Honestly I can't be convinced to buy a leatherman when there's cheaper alternitives on the market that get's the job.

I asked someone on their official instagram recently about if they discontinued them the person I talked to told me they are pretty much only on their Amazon for now

I would rather the wave or Victorinox

I reeeeeeeealy hope they incorporate a spring plier, like in the Garage 005, to be a true replacement to the wingman/sidekick. Keeping my modded wingman until then.

My last two multitools have both been nextools..I actually dont remember the last leatherman I bought.

Idk I pick up my Rebar more than my Wave. I like having a sleek design and an awl

Broke the tip of one of the pliers head at work the other day😢. So gunna send it in under warranty

along with my SQUIRT... I haven't bought a Leatherman since my SQUIRT... the Arc just doesn't impress and the Skeletool had a tendency to BREAK

My thoghts are many; but to make long story short i think that i would never use a plier like the ARC that i paid 300€( this Is the price here in Europe) for working....these are things for collectors only! I Will Stick to my ST 300 which Is fenomenal tool for working hard. Greets from Italy

The Arc is just a Surge Free and CRAZY expensive. The Free series was a good idea, but the budget tools are a disaster. They should have just made a Wave/Free version....

I can't imagine them ever getting rid of the wave, it's always gonna have a place it's a stronger tool, you don't always need one handed tools

In norway the leatherman free p4 Cost 230. And the arc is 399. On leatherman side

They should change the p4s toolset to be like the rebar's, with scissors

My main problem with Leatherman as brand compared to the new competitors is the lack of innovation. They basically repack the same old tools in different sets. Why get one more if i already have one? The others go modular, add big scissors or a wrench.

I’m so confused. Why stop innovating? Is it the T4 and K4 tools too? I love them for the one handed opening options it just made sense, faster and more efficient. (Only wish they made slip joint versions of them, do you think they are easy to modify to slip joints?.) And wish the T4 had metal for the spacers. Surprised there isn’t any after market makes.) Why are Victorinox stopping the production of the Evo line? It just a modernisation of the line. And I definitely like it. They could even just keep making the scales for people to stick on their knives, I wish they made scales of all types with all the mods people have made to fit more tools. A Evo Swiss champ would have been nice! Anyway another thing many makers of SAK’s (3” bladed models.) are missing out on are one handed opening tools especially the main blade (like Swiza have done. And they deserve more recognition for their ingenuity!.) Even the Boker tech tools are so suited for one handed with their modern styling. Sorry for the long post it just makes me sad to see this, apparently Victorinox has stopped making the Solider? And the ranger line? Then Cold steel has stopped alt of stuff too like the Kris stuff, even the Vaquero(which I thought was one fo their best sellers.) and the Ti lites too? So confused as to why if this is all true? Sorry again this has just dragged!