"Or both." THANK YOU! I think this is possibly the first time I have heard anyone admit the possibility that BOTH dark matter and modified gravity might be possible. I love you, Lee! :)

I love your ability to work with Lee Smolin, his clearly very comfortable with your manner and very generous with you.

Great interview - I actually understood & learnt a lot. Many thanks !

I had the impression as an amateur that study of the bullet cluster resolved the issue in favor of dark matter. I'm not sure exactly when it happened, or when this discussion took place. On the other hand cosmologists are currently (June 2017) debating whether there is dark energy or if gravity acts differently than predicted at very large scales.

Wonderful discussion 👍👌

This guy has the most meditative and cool voice I have ever heard. I absolutely love this guy. He's some totally beautiful zen master!

I like the way that doctor Smolin smile when explain these stuffs

I’m in love with Lee Smolin

At every level of the fractal hierarchy, variation enters the system in different ways, so there is no scale invariance. All of the information is stored in the relationships of and in each level in the computational geometry. The Glass Onion is a model of the probability space where the tree of the knowledge (our material reality) is growing, each layer gets progressively thinner, so that, like a fractal it never completely fills space, the space is not infinite. The boundary conditions display edge of criticality in each layer. The physical manifestation (the structure of our reality), could be thought of as a tree like structure, growing in this probability space. At the ends, the filaments are very fine, in fact infinitely fine. All of the information is stored as relationships and as the finest projections are created or computed you have the greatest number of possible outcomes, so that the earliest versions of this structure had few possible outcomes (less degrees of freedom). This structure could be called truth at it's core (in the beginning) and chaos in the fine hair-like projections (the end). The ever present now, is our position in the computational geometry. Buridan's ass, deception, metastability, dithering or self referential randomness. Fredkin's paradox and degrees of freedom. You are spirit. You are made of stuff but this stuff is something that cannot be regarded as real. The information is not the structure it is the relationships. The information contains no mass.

Rick D., wow....I "really really really" get it and really don't get what your saying. Something from the complex has synthesized for me and I don't quite know what! Do you have a weblink or blog?

Dark Matter was first discovered by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky back in 1933. So its now getting to be almost 90 years since the discovery and we don't know anything more about dark matter than did Fritz Zwicky. So this must be one of the longest running science mysteries since the beginnings of modern science back in the 1600s

Consider that mass may be hidden in supermassive black holes that develop a Planck core.

Dark matter, matters. Plain and simple. It matters in a way no other matter can. When dark… matters, it produces significant effects on mattering matter near by. Thus, by definition and high level of addition and multiplication… when does dark matter, matter? When it doesn’t matter anymore.

The level in this channel. Wow.

Could there be something dark between galaxies in cluster that keeps galaxies together in cluster from flying apart and causes outer stars in galaxy to rotate as fast as stars in the interior of galaxy?

I know it's just the name that stuck, and a rose is a rose, but I would prefer "dark stuff" to dark matter. It's not clear that the stuff is something we would want to call matter.

Lee Smolin is the best popularizer of science, doing justice to science and also explaining it in ways that are accessible to lay people. We can't say the same of dudes like Neil or Krauss, and company; they sacrifice science in the name of ideology, a bunch of idiots.

Lee Smolin is brilliant but, if gravity behaves differently at very small scales, then it's not too wild to imagine gravity applying differently at extremely large scales. In that case Newton's laws would not be wrong, just most accurate in "middling" domains. After all, QM didn't simplify things, but it works.

Is there a relationship between dark matter and space, such as curvature of space?

Could there by a length scale limit, analogous to the Planck scale, but at large distances that is the reason why gravity appears to behave differently across and between galaxies

Does dark matter exist mainly in the outer areas of galaxies and in between galaxies of a cluster, where it predominates and modifies gravity; while in the interior of galaxies there is much less dark matter and Einstein-Newtonian gravity predominates?

"Dark Matter" ? Try to "OBSERVE" the "UNOBSERVABLE" What "LIGHT" depending phenomena happens (and there reference frames) @ the 21cm band (Pauli EXCLUSION) in Tired light model ~ Fritz Zwicky? specific 1/4 ratio ????

Could the revolving of the spiral arms of galaxy create gravity inside galaxy, like the revolution of space station causes gravity inside space station? If so, is it the supermassive black hole at center of galaxy that causes spiral arms of galaxy to revolve, or would it be something else?

1:02 important issue . what kind of gravity are talking about ? Newtonian ( external force dynamism ) or general relativistic outside pushed tensor of force , or Amirian ( internal force tensor | torque dynamism ) ?

Is there a relationship between dark matter and quantum, as both not interact with regular matter?

For there to be a dark matter particle in the vast stretches of space of the outer galaxy between the spiral arms, would some type of matter or something else measure the dark matter particle from a quantum wave / field; or would dark matter particle not have quantum wave / field; or where would dark matter particle come from and why not resume gravity wave / field where there is nothing to measure the dark matter particle?

Perhaps similar to black holes, dark matter and dark energy are turned into themselves where nothing escapes, while gravitational forces are externally massive.

What if it's anti matter and it actually dominates in a different dimension but gravity still connects them and entanglement

Dark matter not effected by particles and waves, yet dark matter gravity effects stars and galaxy? Would be interesting if gravity have more effect on dark matter and dark energy than other forces.

Newton's law is not sufficient on a galactic scale. Relativity says that time is local. Therefore on a galactic scale, you don't know where everything is because you don't know what "where" means. The best you can do is an iterative model.

Q: There is sth wrong with Newton’s universal gravity, because movements of planets around stars is also influenced by the rotation and rotationspeed of the stars? Persons like Einstein and Zwicky understood this, but didn’t become popular by explaining that this was a serious shortcoming in Newon’s universal gravity? While Zwicky assumed an invisible force (dark matter) as ‘source of gravity’ to explain puzzling movements of planets around stars, Einstein came up with warped spacetime with fourdimensional motions (including rotation), whereby Einstein realised he knew better than Newton. Or not?

Dark matter - Apears to be a tremendous gap in our ability to understand the Cosmos , Physics . . . Our very existence.

Could dark matter come from dark energy somehow, as energy can be converted into mass? How would dark energy speed cosmological constant effect relationship between dark energy and dark mass? Maybe dark energy slow down inside galaxy due to gravitational forces enough to become dark matter?

He is getting closer to the truth. That is, beyond the truth as argued by Parmenides.

Maybe its just time itself running differently. So no dark matter influencing galaxies speeds, but time itself running at different speeds in different coordinates of the Universe that makes these fenomenons occur in the first place. IF THIS IDEA HOLDS TRUE, I´M CLAIMING THE OWNERSHIP OF IT lol

Vera Rubin. Correct.

Because everyone is saying dark matter can't possibly be protons and neutrons I'm going to say dark matter is protons and neutrons. Maybe we don't know baryonic matter that well. If protons were six times more massive than we currently believe but only expres one sixth of their gravitational mass locally that would account for the observed amount of missing mass just about. 5/6 = 83.33%, very close to the Planck satellite measurement of 84.5%. And if neutrons were seven times more massive that would bring the value even closer, to about 83.7%. I say the neutron is seven times more massive than we believe because it decays to a proton and an electron, and an electron's mass is probably 938.272 Mev/c2. You really didn't think it was only .511 Mev/c2 did You? And have zero radius?The proton expresses more mass because the surface of the hypersphere cuts it through it's equator. The electron seems to have no radius because it is entirely in 4D space and just touches the surface of the hypersphere. It may even be a diparticle with half on one side and half on the other side of the surface of the hypersphere. All elementary particles are four dimensional objects and all express only a fraction of their inertial mass in 3D space. If you object to this conclusion by reasoning that the elementary particles cannot be 4D because we live in 3D space and to be 4D they have to exist in 4D space you would be correct about the second part but wrong about the first. We do live in 4D space. The biggest illusion of all is that we live in 3D space. The apparent 3D space we live in is actually simulated by 4D matter in 4D space. All elementary particles are ''pinned" to the surface of the hypersphere. They cannot move in the 4D direction. They can only slide around on the surface of the hypersphere in the other three of the four dimensions.That's what the dark matter measurements and other evidence I've gathered suggest to me.

Quantum speed Could gravity be an emergent property of a more fundamental concept? What if speed was more fundamental than gravity? Then we should be focusing on quantum speed, using an approach I call the Superfractalon Field Hypothesis. Quantizing speed would treat space and time more evenly since speed is length over time whereas gravity is length over time squared. If we think that space and time have a one to one ratio then we should think about quantizing speed rather than Gravity. This would mean that there is a slowest speed that is not zero. And the speed would be a component of all other speeds. I have a candidate for the speed. I call the slowest speed the quantum speed. To give you an example of how slow it is imagine something moving at a constant speed over 1 billion years and only going a nanometer. This is an approximation of how slow the candidates for the quantum speed is that I have come up with using my hypothesis.

There different ways to understand the what is , we as humans pick the one way that is more promising to produce on a wider fields of existence

The outer solar systems in our galaxy got their speed from the galaxy itself because the whole galaxy was one object in its beginning. Galaxies begin their lives as quark-gluon plasma which is invisible and can make shapes. Our galaxy was a giant, single disk with a bulbous center. The outer solar systems were created from this disk while the center turned into our black hole. That explains their speed at the edges.

Is it remotely possible that dark matter is time matter? Is time matter the expression of space itself? Are the macro geometric objects we see in real life the Expression from subatomic geometric space?

perhaps the force that drives apart galaxies is centrifugal in nature and the whole universe has spin as a collective.

My hypothesis that Dark Matter is not a WIMP, but maybe is a deformation of space-time by which the curvature of space-time ALONE is the cause of the gravitational effect. Gravity is the consequence of the curvature of space-time. It may be possible that the structure of space-time itself could be warped without the presence of mass. Space-time has been shown to react like a fabric by warping, twisting, and propagating independent of mass. These properties have been proven with observations of gravitational lensing, frame dragging, and now gravitational waves. Fabrics can be stretched, pressured, and/or heated to the point of deformation. Such extreme conditions were all present during inflation, so it is plausible that space-time’s elastic nature could have hit its yield point and permanently deformed. Therefore, if gravity is the consequence of the warping of space-time, and fabrics can be permanently deformed, then a deformation could create a gravitational effect independent of mass. Thus, the unidentified dark "matter" that seems to be so elusive to modern science may not be matter at all but merely warped deformities causing gravitational effects. DM could be a microscopic black hole with no mass at the center... Prediction: Spacetime's elastic property hits a yield point, so only that part of geodesic's "stretch marks" would remain after inflation stopped. These steep gravitational wells would not follow the inverse square law. I am looking for Observationalist to help test...

Theoretical idea: A pulsating photon is the pure energy unit. "Gravity" is the directional component of the photon. When pure energy units unite with other pure energy units they would tend to stabilize and vibrate. On a larger scale, the Earth could be seen as a massive singular interacting photon with it's magnetic fields, electrical surface fields and ionic fields, and gravity fields, all three photonic forces all basically 90 degrees from each other. On even a larger scale, our flat spiral galaxy could be seen as a massive singular interacting photon with it's magnetic fields on opposite sides of the plane of matter, the electrical fields along the plane of matter, and "gravity" (the directional component of the photon) being directed towards the center of the galaxy, all three photonic forces all basically 90 degrees from each other. As below in the singularity, as above in the galaxy and probably universe as well. Also: "space" is pure energy itself and "time" is the flow of that energy. So, space and time pulse in basically a 360 degree fashion and also tend to stabilize more on a larger scale. Hence also, "relativity".

unless they find a dark matter particle then there can be no certainty that dark matter actually exists. without that dark matter particle, then the only other explanation left is that our theory of gravity is incomplete.

When PHOTONS age trey streth out ?

How come dark matter just can't be concentrations of strong gravity.

I wanna go to whatever university Smolin teaches at.

Newtons equations couldn't explain the observed orbit of Mercury, so an unseen body was proposed as an explaination. Eintein fixed this problem with a new term in the equation. Still we can't explain the rotation of the outer stars in the galaxy. Don't the equations just need a fix. Why do we just end up proposing that invisible matter outweighs visible matter by six to one?

Yeah, what he said.

These guys are on the same page for sure, they are just feeding off of each other, they have great Chemistry! (No pun intended)

Fermion graviton having 750 proton mass

Current findings are saying dark matter does not exist.

Maybe magnetism plays role in dark matter?

Seen it once mini univers particals in the sky colieded and created a dark.cloud after that small things started spinning round in it then vinger party's and then all the cloud moved bit then went back to the point and went complete gone

Just a physics groupie, not a professional, so indulge me if I'm having a silly reaction but . . . MAYBE there really ARE phenomenon that are being approximated by these terms (and their underlying conceptual models) "Dark Matter" and "Dark Energy." Or . . . (as the commentator seems to be suggesting at 8:34 . . .) could it mean that one or more of our precious "Laws" or other assumptions in existing physics is just plain wrong? My layman's understanding is that this latter explanation might be the simplest? Am I wrong that "Dark Matter" and "Dark Energy" are in fact just "x variable" corrections that have been plugged into our formulae for accounting for how the cosmos works? Without those x variables, then modern day physics breaks, right? . . . at least at the level of large quantities of matter, space and time, i.e., galaxies and larger. What I find interesting is: how much effort has been put into trying to "find" Dark Matter and Dark Energy and (seemingly) how LITTLE effort has been put into trying to work out exactly WHAT COULD be wrong with existing physics which COULD lead to the universe behaving so differently than our "models" suggest it should.

Dark Matter An artist can't create a painting without the use of shadows. An image is just a blank white canvas without the darkness of shadows. Old Masters' used two thirds dark and one third light to create their paintings. The impressionists came along and with their mastery of color were able to create paintings using one third dark and two thirds light. That's why impressionist paintings are lighter and more uplifting. Also, we are all sculptors like Michelangelo. We chip away our darkness (greed) and a positive image of good (god) emerges. And one more thing. Darkness (business) exists so that stars like US have a place to shine in heaven (joy, beauty and harmony). Stars like US don't exist to be sucked out of heaven by a giant black hole in space called "greed" and it's ignorance (hate).

Can anybody follow this?

I am so tired of the interpreters who don’t know the Davos and Rothschild stuff. What do we know? What is managed in the credential realm?

Lee is a nice guy, but this subject really already solved. Dark Matter is a misnomer. It should just be called 'Dark Gravity' since it is a non-understood gravitational phenomenon. By calling it dark 'matter' we suggest we already know what the problem is: missing matter. This is however not correct. Gravity is the longitudinal spacetime contraction caused by movement of (and inside) mass. In restmass, the tiny longitudinal contractions of each electron plane around an atom's core, all combined cause a seemingly radial contraction (Einsteins mathematical approximation of GR) . The additional speed of the object however, causes an additional gradient contraction of spacetime along the vector of movement, analogous to Einstein's length contraction in special relativity. It is this orthogonal extra high speed of stars at the spiral arms of galaxies that causes the extra macro gravity (with a gradient) keeping all stars in their outer orbits.....

Can we please stop saying “combine together” and “separate apart”? Ditto for “colleagues that I work with.”

You're asking God's characters what the world is about but they don't know they're only illusions within a simulation program. It's impossible for them to explain who they are.

This guy needs to do a show on the electric universe.

I doubt Newton is wrong. Your observation and calculations and likely to be wrong.

But what I want to know is - just what does Donald Trump have to say about this !

No conclusions yet again. Just gas-bagging and hot air.