Put the GunBroker seller's screen name up...

If I had money for 5000+ dollar Lugers I would get a lawyer and go after the seller for fraud.

Tom you should publicly expose these FAKE sellers

Thanks for putting out these educational and helpful videos Tom. Its too easy nowadays to get scammed and you're helping to counter that trend tremendously.

You are doing the world a great service, thank you.

Great video, Tom! It made me go out to the safe and get my BYF 41 All matching but I think the grips have been replaced. They are wood and I think one has a faint 135 stamp on it. Anyway keep these videos coming they are great info for the up-and-coming collector😊

Great video with excellent explanations of how to spot a fake. You are correct in not destroying the firearm. It is best to broadcast it to the public and I'm sure it would make a wonderful shooter grade handgun for someone on a budget.

You can't beat them black grips they just set it off perfectly

I worked for a class 3 manufacturer and he had a friend that was also a class 3 manufacturer that guy had a industrial grade Pantagraph machine and he would make all the Waffen amp stamps for a particular type of weapon. We used to get mixed parts sets in and needed to sand or polish off the original markings and restamp everything correctly. Because he built these weapons on his marked recievers there was no way a later seller could say it was "faked" since the numbered receiver was not original. So its not hard to see sellers pulling a fast one on buyers by restamping parts.

Learned a lot. Thanks! I went to Ralph Shattuck’s house in Arizona around 1999 and saw his impressive collection in his walk in safe room. I got a mint 1934 Swiss Contract DWM in 7.65 that he said was from some collector’s estate and was likely never fired after the factory, and a 1914 DWM Naval Luger with a long barrel and artillery sights in 9mm also in mint condition but probably fired a few times. I also got a copy of his book.

Buyer beware is the best rule when buying high dollar guns, Always do your research!!!!

The grips on the Luger are Bakelite the very first industrial plastic material. Bakelite is a hard resin that's heated in an oven and then pressed in to shape using a form mounted in a hydraulic press. If one doesn't have the press or the Bakelite bricks, then it's nigh impossible to make components that look like Bakelite. The pistol grips showed are cast, hence all the bubbles.True Lugar grips are pressed.

I used to work for John V. Martz the Luger Carbine maker and I liked working on DWM pistols but never cared for the "Black Widow" P08.

i love it when chuck mcgill tells me about lugers

That pig skin holster….It’s beautiful. I doubt $2,000 would buy it. Very jealous

A very useful and educational video. My thanks.

I’m surprised he didn’t add a Deaths Head to the holster to try and milk a little more out of it. 😂 We all know every “black widow” came off an SS General at a concentration camp. 😂

Thanks, Tom, for an excellent and informative video. I used to see Ralph Shattuck at the MAX Show, but first met him when his wife and he came to Germany on vacation, and we were at the came Biergarten table. We immediately found that we were both Shriners and had a nice conversation.

You have to wonder if the actual forger of this Black Widow is watching this Taking Notes for what NOT TO DO in the future . ..LOL

I like the Brown Recluse better. The brown grips are very attractive on the black metal. 🙂

Really enjoy your videos, very informative ! I have to admit , I had a cousin that about 20 years ago was faking lugers and was proud to tell me about it. He and I didn't talk for about a year as I told him how wrong that was .I always wondered where those guns wound up.

Old time collectors used white to make the numbers more viable. It can be clean off with a mild solvent and nylon brush without effecting the original finish.

I'd bet that if you could (unfortunately) destructively test the fake grips and mag bottoms by shaving a a tiny piece off, you would find that the fakes are made from a casting resin. That's why there are bubbles on the inside of the fake grip panels, because pouring resin into a mould drags air in with it and bubbles can't always escape before the resin cures. The original grips and mag bottoms would be made from Bakelite, which uses heat and pressure to polymerise it, so unless the part was very (very) badly designed, there shouldn't be any bubbles/voids at all.

Hope I can make it to the show of shows in 2024. They are the most incredible shows and you can't see everything in just one day.

The finish quality is so bad from byf compared to earlier Lugers. As a collector, I like the high quality finishes.

l just learned something here.....Thanks Tom you are the best my friend..... Old F-4 Phantom 2 Shoe🇺🇸

I have one of the 1941 transition lugers with the matching baseplate. It's an "A" suffix in the 9000 range.

A database of fakes would be very helpful.

The term "Black Widow" was made up in the mid to late 70's by Ralph Shattuck, because plastic gripped Lugers were not selling. Think about it wood grips are a lot more labor intensive than plastic. The plastic gripped guns are later in the war when resources were getting low, it was all about getting guns out. As an old friend of mine's father used to say "There is an *** for every seat"

Great video found it extremely educational. I have a 1941 dated Luger that matches your description but the toggle has 42 instead of byf would this be considered a black widow?

Thanks for the valuable information as alway. Happy New Year!

I have a byf 41 Luger. Black grips but grey magazine. 135 proof and virtually every part has the last 2 digits of serial on it. If my serial is on the barrel it’s so light I can’t see it however underside of barrel has proof mark. Bought it in a pawn shop in 95 for $500ish. The pawnshop dealer said it was a Luftwaffe pistol because it’s a Mauser and not a DWM which is more valuable. After this video I don’t know what I have. The only thing waxed is the safety no numbers or marks have any waxing

Thanks brother.

I wonder why he would use a WWI holster instead of a WWII one? Seems it would be easier, same with why go to the trouble of stamping numbers I would think the way to do it would just be to add the black grips and mag bottom. I liked the Brown Recluse…I’m going to use it !

The fake gun has CHARACTER! A good Man seeking a good Woman may notice that maybe some prominent parts of her curvy features are fake, or Enhanced if you will? But still is so very attractive and wonderful. Why? Because she has CHARACTER!

Hello, the fake one appears to have 97 stamped on the safety bar instead of 91. 🤔

Simply Awesome!!!

Could you stamp on it where it's not visible right away like under the hand grips Reproduction / Fake or something like that?

Arrgh! Pause the video around 0:50 and play 'spot the difference.' Mauser production didn't vary that much surely? I wonder what inspection stamps are inside the frames? Best bet would be to use it as a parts gun. It's an expensive shame but what can you do?

I have a BYF 41 Luger I got from my dad 30 years ago. All numbers match except the magazine, it's the aluminum bottom. The condition from 1 to 10, 10 being brand new, I would say it's a 9. No rust, very little wear. It has the 655 markings. How would I find out the value of it? Thanks

This just saved me $3200

I’ve got a byf 42 with those wood grips and 135 proofs.

Jim Kemp would say white wax hides something 😊

Fake Lugers disgust me

Anyone know the name of the seller?

I've wread about the Gray ghost's of Orbendoufv P-38s from some Sub penn

50 years ago I had a 32 cal. MAB with the black grips and it had the nazi proof/inspection symbols all over it. I was told there was less than 2000 made don’t know what happened to it but I’ve been curious what it was worth. Does anyone know

Didn’t East German post war Lugers have black grips ? I remember back in the late 80’s early 90’s when I had my shop there was quite a few reproduction parts for the Luger mainly because the Luger wasn’t a expensive gun but collectors were beginning to pick them up and by the early 2000’s especially after saving private Ryan came out all things ww2 took off suddenly German stuff that wasn’t readily accessible started showing up..and so did the price…that’s cool I have own pistol and helmet collection myself…

Destroying any quality firearm ought to be a crime, even if it is not an "authentic" collectible! I suggest that once a faked collectible is identified, an additional stamp could be applied somewhere on the frame under the grips, stock or furniture. Some variant of "assembled" or "N-O" (for "Non-Nriginal") or even "N/A" indicating "Not Authentic" should suffice, especially given popular online forums where collecting communities can discuss and develop standards.

w/d tom, hope xmas went gd

Look at the 655 stamp. The real 655 has the 5 in the center at a 90 degree angle but the 6 is about 5 degrees? Or so at an angle and the same with the other 5 so they are at 85, 90 and 95 like they are stamped around a center point. The fake is all 90 degrees.

is there a replica luger ? even if it's in .22 ?

Why don’t you put a little stamp somewhere on it indicating it’s a reworked Luger and not original?

The seller? Mauser?

Definitely a fake but great for a user and still keep the real one in pristine condition!!!

Fake gun? If you shot me with it, would it be a fake wound? Plenty of value as a shooter grade Looger that you wouldn't mind taking to the range.

Please let us know the on line seller.

I have an S42 Luger dated 1936, and it has a matching holster dated 1936. Would this be considered WW1 or a mid years Luger? Obviously it isn't a WW2 manufactured Luger but it was used in WW2 (it is a captured Luger).

luv this guy

Add a discreet stamp with the word "fake" where it would be hard to remove That way it can't be mistaken.

BYF 42's had wood grips as well. I have one (numbers matched) The whole craziness for these "black widows" is silly. Total made up marketing nonsense. If anything I would venture to say the BYF42/41s with wood grips are more uncommon. Not to mention the black grips are not numbered. There is no real way to be certain one left the factory with them. I could take the wood grips off my BYF42 and slap some original black bakelite ones on there and just about double its value.

I also have a german luger,from my grandfather

… happy newYear ..?

Awesome info👏🏻👏🏻👍👍

Caveat emptor! Thank you for your honesty.

41 42 code black widow?

Wish you would've shown the action, even though I know it.

The cooler sounding the nickname, the more likely it isn’t authentic.

As soon as the gloves came out ...I'm levn

As a past Luger collector I hate the term "Black Widow"! The byf lugers were the highest production of all wartime guns! Good marketing and took advantage of stupid noob collectors! Just my opinion! Also remember that black Bakelite grips were standard replacement in armorers kits.

Well stamp it fake or reproduction or modified "in English" and you stop all the crooks trying to resell it as authentic.

Sell it to Rotten Ralph's family. Lol

A friend of mine has a set of lugers, nazi insignia on the grips, built in silencer. Wonder if they are worth anything.

Its sorta ironic that tom tells us how to find a fake when he was caught faking a black widow haha. He's also had a lot of fake stuff in his store without mentioning its fake.

A comment on selling a faked gun, i agree not to destroy it, maybe you could add your own personal mettel stamp to it, I have a skull and cross, bones, maybe that could signify that it's a creation, and still a gun to preserve, your videos are great, cool 😎

It is still a nice luger , Not as valuable as a genuine Black widow but still nice.

how about stamping 'FAKE" under the grips a couple of places... and into the grip panels..

You should make the gun as being fake, by stamping it inside the frame!!

Ah, another lord flaggington vid.

Could you tell us the guy's name who faked it?

Shouldn't the guy selling these fakes be reported to the proper authorities?

Tom Thank you thank you thank you for saying that the black widow was a made up term 👍

The golden Luger from Obersturmbandführer Rudolph Winkler woud be nice to see

Darth Vader vibes

Why not engrave it so people can tell it isn't a true WW2 Luger.

You need to get a stamp that says FAKE and stamp these on the frame

Just stamp it "F A K E"

These guys rip people off!

Nobody watches on computers anymore...😂

Just stamp "Fake" in several key spots... its not a collectible piece.

Como les robaron a los Alemanes ehhhh... todas esas armas deberían estar en sus Museos.

If I can ever afford one I’d only buy from Legacy

I have a BYF 42 with a 135 proof that has a unmarked magazine and wood grips. Its a bring back by my late father in law. I wonder if its a late production pistol.

The camera work is less than desirable ! So sad !

man no wonder they lost everything they used was so over engineered

He should his money back!!!

“Black widows” aren’t even a real thing, it’s literally an American marketing ploy.

Fake modern replica

If they're fake and you're selling it as a fake. Then ingrave fake on the inside of the frame

Stamp it - FAKE .