I agree. Im sure this wheels will wear out way faster than regular one either. So it will cost more to repear

@@sahinyasar9119 Hence the market share of this invention is tiny even all those years later.

@@StrangerHappened when thinking about it. This only usefull for robots useally used in amozon cause they only move in predicted space. While employee only need someone skilled to work for them to drive regular one

probably can be fixed by computer adjusted wheel motors to maintain the direction

That's for materials science engineers to resolve.

this is for a prefect floor, or it will not work? just not a practical idea at all if you ask me...

Guys, this is not just a theoretical demo, there are forklifts with this mechanism in the real world.

@@chipfyn1 I haven't seen a forklift with those wheels yet, but coincidently just yesterday I saw a little wheel-drone in a tech store with just those wheels. They certainly didn't use CGI because no real vehicle would exist, but because it made explanation of the concept way better understanding. And for making an online video (where budget is very limited), how would you find out, where there is some company nearby, that has such a forklift? And even if you did, another question if they let you play around with it for some video.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e5iSkplqrNbRmZc.html

May be could use a computer system like ESP to dynamicly balance the outputs of each wheel?

No you haven't

it was invented by the makers of Razer for the UK original series called Robot Wars. This was somewhere around the late 90s

Ok

These wheels are commonly used in robotics like FRC, but they are slowly being replaced by swerve drive bases that corrects all the physical limitations of mecanum wheels.

They are also used in some forklifts. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zqpyi9iL25mcnGw.html

I believe in your last section, talking of rotational energy, you're referring solely to the wheels but there are a few different frames of reference for rotational energy in this system. Engines, bearings, motors, wheels, etc. and even the frame like you said. Potential (gas/battery) -> kinetic (ie, motor) -> rotational -> (motor/wheel) -> kinetic (movement) but it's nuanced with friction, sound, heat, etc. I think the greatest loss of that initial potential isn't to the rotational energy loss but because of the lack of contact of "tire" to the ground, assuming a high coefficient of friction the driver is only harassing a small percentage of what they could with a normal tire that is in full contact and normal to the ground. Long opinion haha

It's meant to be driven by peasants inside Amazon Wearhouses.

thats why they invented reach trucks and magnet lines(with an adjustable forkbord) so you can already get maximum storage space

Hence why they will only be used in warehouses on said surface and on Hilariously leveled floor, refering to that one episode in Rick and Morty

@@doctorpanigrahi9975 you spell like someone who works in an Amazon warehouse

I was wondering the same thing about the cancelled forces--the energy for the wheels pulling against one another has to go somewhere...

I totally agree that Lesics videos would benefit from a more balanced presentation. But you are wrong about the cancelled forces: Forces cancel out all the time in mechanical systems and that has nothing to do with energy. For instance, if a pen lies on a table, the gravitation force on the pen and the normal force from the tabletop cancels out. No work is performed, and no energy is expended.

@@waylonk2453 dat axle lol. Indeed it does seem like a terribly inefficient configuration. But it fills a niche!

@@mumiemonstret It's different. The pen and the table top forces do cancel that's why there's no movement, only equilibrium, no work. But in this mecanum car, a work must be done and two active forces in different directions combine so that the resultant force would move the car in the direction intended. Real active forces has to be cancelled out. This car is indeed inefficient but this car is built for mobility not efficiency, that's why don't expect this to become a viable transpo. But indeed this could be very valuable in tight spaces or warehouses.

@@MrKockabilly My guess is the cancelled force for mecanum wheels is akin to force cancellation when two wheels rotating in opposite directions push against each other. Energy is expended in the form of kinetic friction of the wheels rubbing against the ground.

Just a simple graphical demo. It's not meant to be 100% real-world accurate or to scale. But you knew that.

@@Salsuero It's misleading though and serves to fluff up the merit of these wheels when in reality, they're pretty damn impractical for fork trucks.

I thought that when I seen it too lol. Did it HAVE to be that egregious...... 😂🤣🤦‍♂️

And of course, even regular wheels can have zero turning circle, if you have them driven separately (i.e. left wheels forward, right wheels backward, as I have seen on many excavators on wheels or even tracks). That's what I am wondering about - you don't need these for zero turning circle. The difference is the sideways motion - did you, as a forklift operator, ever felt the need of sideways motion? I suppose it would be nice to have in some cases (like, when trying to fit a box into a tight space), but did you as an operator ever need it, or could you after a while turn to the right spot on the first try without the need for additional maneuvering?

yeaah i agree these seem like theyed be hard to drive, i'd rather just grab the standup if i cant get the turn with the sit down as all forclifts are zero turns.

The unreliability is definitely in part due to the mecanum wheels. Poor surface contact at the wheel base leading to slippages that can cause rotation when you want lateral movement, wasted energy in all 4 directions of movement due to needing to cancel out forces, said wasted forces putting excessive strain on the frame, all combined with poor weight tolerances at the axels of the rollers themselves make it an expensive and wasteful platform.

Excuse my lack of knowledge in the area but I'm curious. Is this reliability also due to a weight limit? I would imagine a solid single part wheel would be more structurally sound that several smaller "wheels". Even if the forklift was far more agile and could probably accomplish the same tasks faster than a standard forklift, I think the wheels would wear out quicker. Is this something you ran into, or were the forklifts not in action long enough to discover this?

Systems like this are used at Boeing Airbus and others to move major sections of aircraft. Siemans has one that moves locomotives.

@@davidsandy5917 yet they called it unreliable lol when they are been used to build multi million dollars planes

@@lcfflc3887 and what does that have to do with their reliability?

Exact same here :) Ours was a lift vehicle

I’m also in FIRST. Good luck to anyone competing this year. 😁😁

what does "robotics robot" even mean

@@fitrianhidayat its part of the name “FIRST robotics”

@@fitrianhidayat It's a meme event, doesn't even matter anyway

These other comments are dumb. All of a sudden everyone has a mechanical engineering degree. Lifting planes on a tarmac but these commenters acting like it's a dandelion ready to bust apart at the first sign of dirt or a loose screw.

How does pointing out legitimate concerns about their use make someone a hater? Every comment I've read lists legitimate design flaws with the current design, such as friction coefficients, load bearing concerns for forklift applications, high wear rate on the rollers, just to name a few? Is it truly considered "hating" when pointing out legitimate concerns in the hopes that said concerns will be taken into account, and help make these wheels better in the future?

@@SgtAwesome97 most people will expend theit creative energy poking holes in existing things rather than providing new solutions. It should be kind of obvious that these wheels arent going to replace regular wheels and have many drawbacks that only make them useful in certain niche cases In an exaggerated example, pointing out flaws in this wheel is like calling a fighter jet design stupid because it sacrifices a lot of performance at commercial speeds and cant carry many people or big payloads

@Wojciech Pordzik I think the only real application here would be for warehouses of extremely volatile substances, military use, or when there isn't a lot of space. The example they gave would have been *plenty* of space for any of the forklifts I mentioned.

This might be practical as a wheelchair or medical application. Maybe as a form of entertainment. I think the heavier the load the less likely it might be to be reliable.

@@zeke7100 in instances with minimal floorspace, there are standing forklifts with a really small footprint with rear wheel steering, and i cant imagine that these wheels would make any more difference with volatile substances. Issue is these wheels have more parts that the standard wheel, so more maintenance, more cost, more complexity, small debris would probably cause problems. I agree that the concept seems really cool and could be a game changer, but the current game doesn't really need to be changed.

@@namelesscage Yeah, in theory, the wheels would be amazing, but the solid rubber wheels that most forklifts use nowadays is far more capable and cheaper to produce and as far as I'm aware, last considerably longer, as I rarely ever hear about forklift wheels breaking, even while under heavy stress.

I believe it comes down to maintenance/complexity as well. Forklift tyres are, well, tough as nails. Can't recall if they're solid rubber entirely, but at the very least, fabrication and replacement aught to be cheaper. That said, cost of maintenance/repair on macanum wheels might be cheaper as a single roller, or perhaps a roller axil might need changing. Pure speculation...

The forklifts are also used outside on unprepared loose ground. Mud, dust, snow, as many sources of debris that would ruin the bearings of each roller on such wheels, the replacement of which is likely to cost, not only in repairs but also immobilization of the forklifts for a while. On the paper lots of promises but in real life , more handicaps appear and make the concept less attractive. Except perhaps in very clean indoor applications with great condition concrete floors.

@@tonerotonero1375 i have no knowledge of forklifts though but Im sure there's some seperate forklifts that can do what you exactly said and this one on this video is specifically for warehouse use?? Idk...

Tire

@@titaniumspecial4207 not when rollers need changed every 50 hours of use

@@gagepuffinbarger6939 Since we came up with English first over here in England, Tyre is correct :P

Except the wear and tear costs and the fact that these wheels have problems bearing even moderate loads. Plus the fact their "new" and "innovative" means there very expensive. It just costs more to have them than what they can put out for product. Especially when their are systems for lifts that have sharp turn radii already with normal inexpensive tires. Is the concept cool and interesting? Yes. Is it practical and efficient? Not really. Plus you gotta factor in if someone is going sideways down a crane isle their taking up most if not all the clearance, thus opening up more problems for foot traffic and collision with hazards.

Did the same thing as you, to program we just followed a tutorial and it wasn't so bad, did you compete in FTC or VEX or something else?

amd made it less reliable by a long shot

But it wont work,

@@lilkurd2000 your comment is invalid unless you explain it. Show us that you understand it better than the engineer did.

@@theobserver9131 if it did work you would see a real thing not a computer generated movie about it. And sure it would maybe work in a storage, but then when we start to think about diffrent loads etc thoose things will break.

"What if I put a wheel... on a wheel...?" Creativity, courage and a little bit of crazy is what makes a genius.

@@lilkurd2000 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zqpyi9iL25mcnGw.html&ab_channel=Futurism

I think a one problem and cost factor is that you need 2 sets of differently manufactured wheels. With normal wheels you can just switch any wheel of matching size onto it. With these wheels you'll at least need 2 wheels for spare, in case either one breaks.

And if they become dirty they’re useless

At this rate, the number of component involved in rubber-based vs mechanum is just too many. I’d rather invest in flexible joints rather mechanum wheels.

Or make it affordable at launch 😒

Yes

kzfaq.info_t_aAw5JgWM?feature=share

ok

Myth busters also used a fork lift with these wheels. I never understood how they worked. I was thinking that the small rollers were somehow powered. This video simplified the wheels but the drive system just got complex, each corner needs it own power. Then a fluid way for the operator to control it.

I am pretty sure I saw these at an expo back in 1993.

Can definitely see a few niche uses for these, but overall for general use these scream impractical.

Haha well put

Yes

MEEEE TOO. I was looking for a comment like this before I said anything.

Ya came looking for this comment. That forklift turn was such utter bullshit lol they can 100% turn on the spot 🤦‍♀️

That's OSHA's special K turn

Happy new year! 🥳🥳

you forgot to add 8-10 year university degree followed by PhD and doctorate credentials, oh wait.

@@goodgoyim9459 You may be right. University education and degrees help build connections, get a job or funding to support the innovation and thus, give a head start to some extent. Best wishes for 2022.

That was literally reinventing the wheel. Absolutely genius.

They are very common on many smaller, indoor forklifts that prioritize that maneuverability over load capacity.

I wonder if there is a way to both change the concavity of the wheels to increase or decrease the surface area and direction of force back and forth from a mecanum wheel to a conventional wheel as well as support the weight by using a mixture of mecanum wheels and conventional wheels to allow for larger carrying capacity or a different mechanism that supports weight independent of the wheels. I say I wonder because I can't imagine a light enough radially fitted piston system that could achieve this result assuming you have solved the problem of increased friction against differently aligned vectors if you were indeed using just the wheels to support the weight. Perhaps a hydraulic block is lowered from the center turning point that can rotate relative to the forklift but not the ground to support the additional weight that exceeds the carrying capacity of the wheels after they have retracted into mecanum wheels. My point being that it may be incorrect to assume that all the weight can only be supported by mecanum wheels that are in use

it looks like it would wear down easier too, especially because its sliding

It looks like a bearing. You know bearing can carry so much weight. So I think it can work. They can make those things as small wheels with rubber around it and make them stronger to carry weight.

@@Blox117 They are not sliding, it is an illusion. The rollers are... rolling.

kzfaq.info_t_aAw5JgWM?feature=share

"your headed" What's a headed and what makes you think I have one?

@@usmh headed: going in a particular direction Your welcome

@@usmh my guy is watching this video while not knowing basic English terms.

@@viswajitbala7924 Ucmh is correct because your shows ownership, I do not own a direction, you are (you're) is correct because I am heading in a direction

Stay away feds

Yes I am interested in both analogue and digital watches mechanism

FBI SECRET AGENT. "SECRET" INDEED.

"A bigger problem forklifts face is having human operators" Found the robot.

I installed this system at Van Der Lay Industries.

@@SUBARCTICPSYCHO and you didn't even need to ask him to identify all the images with bridges in them... You Captchas are getting pretty smart... even creating your own KZfaq accounts?😉

I wouldn't call having human operators a problem. People need jobs, man.

@@SUBARCTICPSYCHO ikr 😆

Yes

By that logic the contact point of the axle and the wheel bears 1/4 of the weight in any 4 wheeled vehicle and that must mean that reliable engineering of those is difficult, except we know that's not true we also know that those forklifts already exist and regularly handle serious loads without problems or more maintenance than a normal forklift besides in a typical mecanum wheel two rollers maintain contact with the ground at all times, not one, so each end of the little roller axle bears 1/16 of the weight compared to 1/4 for a normal wheel axle, so all your faulty logic does is actually prove that mecanum wheels are superior and it IS faulty logic because weight distribution does not work that way, there's no single point that gets 1/4 of the weight or any other asinine simple fraction and the stresses change all the time and don't result in nice even numbers like this also mecanum wheels DO NOT use bearings, they have steel axles with endpoints mounted in a metal frame!

@@nadarith1044 it is not the matter of 1/4 and 1/16 (which is only sometimes true which created even more stress) the problem is that those rollers are not attached to long steel shaft but some small part. And even if they exsist they will be able to lift less and requier more upkeep and cleaner work space.

@@greedier-7661 Dude the 'small part' is an inch thick steel axle that is as long as the wheel is wide, it's proportionally thicker for it's lenght than a 'long steel shaft' and it's endpoints are both closer together while also being supported on the endpoints and bearing weight on the middle, this means that any stresses that want to bend and break it will be countered better because of how it's being kept rigid and supported on both sides in contrast the long steel shaft is essentially bearing the weight on the endpoints and is supported closer to the middle which means that the endpoints will receive more stress due to basic lever principle, on top of that it's also proportionally getting a bigger fraction of the total weight and is proportionally thinner and longer therefore weaker, it's obvious it's going to experience stresses in excess of the rollers and be more prone to bending to boot yet the axles are reliable and durable, so the shorter, thicker, supported more rigidly rollers are obviously not going to be worse or less reliable also your 'if they exist' remark shows that you didn't absolutely no research and have no idea what you're talking about, they do exist and as much as i tried to find opinions about mecanum forklifts there is no mention of 'more maintenance' or 'weight limits', they're as capable as normal forklifts, the problem is that they're rare as mecanum wheels are essentially unheard of outside of robotics (and from what i see most of the problem is people with opinions that aren't engineers poisoning the well on the idea by spouting blatantly false statements about the wheels) speaking of robotics, you have things like small pallet sized robotic platforms that easily support 1 ton weights, up to massive autonomous airport robots that support enormous loads and are used to transport plane parts, the main limitation seems to be batteries as they're all mostly electric they all also operate outside, in a matter of fact mecanum wheels are excellent in off-roading and can handle very rough terrain, what they don't handle well is speed due to their reduced contact patch and how at high speeds their 'rolling' becomes 'repeated impacts' with how they're made speaking about your 'clean work space' statement one important part is that mecanum wheels also receive incredibly small wear and tear, the entire idea that they have a lot of friction is a gratitous misunderstanding of how they work, the entire idea is that any force that isn't converted into motion of the vehicle is just harmlessly expended by the freely spinning rollers, the mecanum wheels NEVER skid and don't even experience wear and tear when breaking as when unpowered the wheels automatically oppose themselves due to their configuration and bleed any force with the free spinning rollers

@@nadarith1044 Firslt I am not worried about shaft of the rollers but the endpoints becouse even if most of the force is focused in the middle, endpoints are being affected by diffrent force and if they were not the only thing being affected byt it but rollers kept some there would be friction affecting them. Regarding my lack of reaserch, you yourself admitted that you did not find anything about such stuff despite the fact that such thing would be in their manuals. Even cars have it wirtten how much can the bear. The small robots work in diffrent ways as they don t use 4 wheels / 4-8 rollers to hold their weight and there is often used a lot of them if they want to lift something realy heavy. If they did have very small wear and tear that means that they would have small friction which means that you would have to make works space not wet and straight as possible and it would skid. That what friction is for. And if all of that was false rollers (not whole mecanum wheels) would be used much often but i hardly even see them. Why are trucks not useing them. You would olny need to make them bigger. Tanks could use them. Oh and forklifters could use them even without the wheels just have them use your rollers.

The rollers are the primary wear components. And IMO, Mecanum wheel systems is unsuitable to pretty much anything other than polish concrete or epoxy floors under modest loads.

@@stanimal8 unsuitable is an understatement even slightly uneven floors will make them very unfun to use hell even down right dangerous the moment one wheel lifts or even loses a little bit of grip you can go from moving in a direction you want to a direction you dont want. and there totally useless off road.

I just looked it up. A single roller can be removed by removing two bolts. You do not even need to jack it up.

Same. Plus the video almost seemed like a sales pitch, talking about how much more efficiently a forklift could maneuver instead of turning circles. But looking at the force patterns, I was thinking, so this thing is working against itself all the time. Working at 50% efficiency constantly to achieve a single direction, cost effective wise, a regular forklift with a skilled operator probably runs circles around this.

You mean 4 wheel steering? Yes that seems to be a much simpler and lower maintenance solution. But if you imagine actually trying to steer something with 4 wheels independently steered it's not easy. Forklifts have to move forward and reverse very accurately, in a straight line, to pick up and deposit things like wood pallets. So maybe having steering on each wheel isn't worth it.

I took that as meaning a tricycle design. Two wheels on one axle acting as the pivot point and one single wheel that steers. Back when I worked in a warehouse most (if not all) of our P.I.T. had this design.

@@wterlep yes theres usually a tricycle layout on european forklifts that attach to the back of trucks however i think this layout might be a bit less stable and cant carry as much weight

@@DrewWithington I meant having one motor for each wheel so you could control them independently of eachother. Then you could make it steer like a tank or a car in tight spaces. but 4 wheel steering might work.

@@masterseeker360 true but the same applies for the mecanum wheels since the weight of each wheels is focused on only one of the small rollers at a time, so carrying hvy load will most likely break the small bearing of the rollers (hope you understand what I'm trying to say cuz it's hard for me to expalin it clearly)

Not even close......

May be easily tangled up with hair and threads though? I can certainly see them being very helpful there.

wheelchairs are not forklifts in a whare house

@@victorhopper6774 forklifts are not in a whare house either.

And when you rotate the joystick you can turn the robot, right? So you can drive it by pushing forwards and turn by tilting? Other joystick could easily be used to operate the fork itself with up,down,left,right with tilt 👍tough which one you set on rotate is probably personal opinion.

They actually did the same car in real.

Agreed, forklifts tend to have real wheel steering for this purpose. Large front wheels for carrying most of the weight and smaller back wheels for 180° turning motion give great maneuverability, not sure where they pulled this example from.

Well spotted

I hate physic, because of that

Yes, looks like there are a lot of forces working against each other here.

DARZHNARZHERLARLEFREFLARZSHERBLE? DARZHNARZHERLARLEFREFLARZSHERBLE?

kzfaq.info_t_aAw5JgWM?feature=share

I am thinking the same the wheels would have a extremely short lifespan and the surface it uses would need to be near perfect so parking lots would be out of the question. Polished concrete would probably be the the ideal surface. As for the wear lets assume the rollers are a consumable perhaps they last a month. Just because they are shot doesn't mean the wheel would be shot. And the really cool feature is you would be able to change the rollers with the wheels still attached to the fork lift just do the ones facing up then turn the wheel and change the other half of them. The rollers which are a small tube would be easy to manufacture and should be rather cheap since wheels are the real engineering challenge. And if you replaced just rollers the wheels should last for dozens perhaps hundreds of roller cycles.

Indeed. The wheels would wear off dramatically fast.

@@amjan The force component that doesn"t "work" does not contribute to the power either, so no. And since the rollers roll, not slip, they don't wear fast either. Please stop guessing and assuming that this isn't a real product!

@@amjan I would not be surprise if the wheels wear faster, not because of the reaction loads, but mostly because of the tapered shape of the rollers causing the rollers to speed-up and slow down as the wheel roll while the vehicle in NOT moving at exactly 45 deg. Also the small contact patches on the rollers would likely wear faster due to higher contact stress AND these wheel systems have much lower capacity when compared to the rubber treaded steel wheels used on typical forklifts. I've only seen Mecanum wheel systems used on small lower capacity battery powered forklifts. We tested these type of forklift at my company ~15 years ago.

@@mumiemonstret Your grasp of simple mechanics (based completely on your "work" and thinking the rollers roll because they are called rollers even though they obviously do not roll or you would just have a block fitted with rolling rollers remaining static in the same position indefinitely) is why you believe this to be a real life practical application. Which it obviously is not.

Its all about upfront cost and long term costs. Its a spiffy invention, but way to many extra components that can break. Its hard enough to find competent people now ad an extra level of complexity to the operation......pointless product. Its like battery operated long haul trucks.....pointless.

@@edwo6648 I don't think it's pointless, it should be called impractical.

@@spookyperson7096 Do you see a method or means to make it practical? If not then it is pointless and any engineer worth their salt knows that. A fun experiment, but at no point commercially viable.

@@edwo6648 Yeah I don't see any method to make it practical, doesn't it mean it's impractical? I think pointless should be used to describe something that doesn't have any use whatsoever. This has its uses but can't be done in real life, hence impractical.

@@spookyperson7096 example: Landscaping job in back yard to build a landscape concrete block retaining wall where load in is through front yard across a manicured lawn or any lawn where they don't want it torn up. If the job requires a skidsteer for less than a days work it is impractical to change out the standard tires to turf tires to spare the lawn, if you have ever done it you will know what a pain in the ass it is. So you lay down a shit ton of plywood to protect the lawn. If its a multiday / week job for the skidsteer then it becomes practical to for go the plywood and open up the range of motion for the skidsteer with turf tires. In the case of that forklift there is at no point where it becomes practical and the engineers know it. Hence why the video is cgi and not actual footage of a prototype forklift. No one is dumb enough to build a preproduction prototype.

Kinda pointless, going through sand or gravel would almost immediately kill the wheel by getting material inside the roller bearings and jamming it all up

@@baileylunn2215 Such is life, you can't avoid dirt eventually it's going to find you...

it's probably an auto circuit board that does all the computer calculations and instructions, not an actual manual rod

​@@SDRIFTERAbdlmounaim You can use one joystick to move the forklift. push in the direction you want to move and rotate the joystick to turn. You can combine this with other joystick to control the fork up/down, left/right and tilt forwards/backwards. On top of that you can just add buttons on the joysticks to handle things like clamps and other functions as needed. Or get an Ai to run the whole thing. Just automated the whole thing. Also this seems to work best on flat clean surface so no offroading?

I think with a single wheel at the back, the rotation is executed around the middle of the axis of the front wheels and not around the center of the vehicule. It's obviously better than having 2 wheels at the back but still takes more space than mecanum wheels.

@@hamzafiroud you forgot about the fork that is in front of the wheels making it turn in the center

@@johnhill2927 ooh i see, i didn't know that. thanks for the hint.

it would be better to say the center of gravity as when loaded the front wheels bare most of the load.

No I am programmer 😂😂 and teaching programming

Retired business owner 😜

I'm a security guard.... i'm so confused why this was in my suggestions

Best I can do is a paramotor: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gpeKa7yFm92bgpc.html

It would

and to the floor

It does. It's like if you've ever had a truck in 4x4 mode and then turn tightly on a flat smooth surface. Everything wants to bind. The rollers are designed to wear and be replaced.

Ok