Lessons Learned from a Vise-less Workbench

Рет қаралды 30,485

Жыл бұрын

We all have our vices. Some of us even have vises. Back in 2017 I built an English pattern workbench whose design had no vises at all. It relies on bench dogs, holdfasts, and battens for all its work holding. Since then working on that vise-less workbench has taught me a lot, improved my hand planing technique, and made all of my woodworking a lot more efficient. Today I present some of the lessons I have learned working without vises at my workbench.
This workbench was the cornerstone project of the Orientation Semester in The Hand Tool School. The build videos and plans for the bench is sold separately but also as part of the entire semester where 3 other projects are built that will help you get started in woodworking. More details can be found on The Hand Tool School website here: www.handtoolschool.net/produc...
The standalone workbench build: www.handtoolschool.net/produc...
A live stream highlighting the Spot Planing Method:
A premium look at my Spot Planing Method: www.handtoolschool.net/produc...

Пікірлер: 85

@lifeofalex9199 Жыл бұрын

I used to train new hires in a guitar factory the number one thing I would have to tell people is to check their work twice as often as they think they should. The more often you check, the sooner you’ll catch your mistakes and the less the chance that you’ve taken it past the point of being fixable. This bench definitely facilitates that mentality.

@ericHoogeveen1 3 ай бұрын

So nice to see things from the left-handed perspective. Great info and thanks for the video!

@Robin-rr2ue Жыл бұрын

The feedback gained from non-captive work pieces has helped me a lot I think!

@davidsimmons-ider4800 Жыл бұрын

Great presentation! I too am a left-hander and I am moving from power to handtool work. Your series of classes have been invaluable for learning handtool work from a leftie's POV. Thanks!

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

Such a nice change for once eh? The righties don't agree and you wouldn't believe the amount of messages I get asking me to redo things so they make sense.

@mrwhobodiggz Жыл бұрын

The first thing j noticed was everything was backwards lol, very good points made. Like judo using counter leverage to force applications.

@daveweber1331 Жыл бұрын

Great stuff, Shannon! I have been making a couple of benches for Rob Cosman's PHP vets. I think it's time I got rid of the 1/2" plywood I've been working on (I have a metal, electric-over-hydraulic scissor style height adjustable bench; health/mobility issues; I love the versatility this part of the bench gives me). I plan to make a 3-4" thick top with oak boards I have stashed away. This video has affirmed the idea that I want a wide surface at the front of the bench to work off of as well as the dog holes to facilitate hold-downs. Thanks for the inspiration, maun! 🙂

@breathestrongcycling3672 Жыл бұрын

Been vice-less for the last 10 years. I always intended to get one but kinda never got around to it as the jigs I clamp to the bench do just as well for most things if a little slower to set up

@hernancoronel Жыл бұрын

OMG a new video from Shannon the triathlete! I can’t believe my eyes! LOL, thank you for sharing Shannon.

@cobberpete1 Жыл бұрын

I'll keep my vices, but will try some of your alternate methods of controlling the work piece. Thanks Shannon.

@terryrogers1025 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for explaining the uses of viseless bench wood working.

@onehandedmaker Жыл бұрын

Hi from an Australian Wood Worker. Just added a vice to my outfeed table a week ago and can't believe I went so long without it. FYI love your channel and videos.

@makenchips Жыл бұрын

Excellent overview and praticle demonstration of examples to support the discussion clearly! 👏 so we'll done and to the point! Well worth the watch for new and experienced woodworkers! Columbus Michigan usa

@ianpearse4480 5 ай бұрын

Love this video. I am really enjoying exploring vice-less work holding. Thanks for the share.

@justplanebob105 Жыл бұрын

Since I started woodworking I have been limited to a Work Mate and one of the first things I built was a Bench Bull. Mine is made of 4 x 4's. I think it was published in WoodSmith Magazine years ago. Many of the ideas you show here are also incorporated into the bull. I started out folding up the workmate each night but for the last 2 years I leave it up all the time. So a 4ft bench like this one could let me leave it up and still park the car in the garage. I could raise the height to save on my back and still use my bench bull and Moxon Vise. Hmmm. And I could still use my workmate as an extension as needed. Hmmm. A workbench or air conditioning.... haha.

@ianpearse4480 5 ай бұрын

I have a few bench bulls, they are fantastic.

@simonguitton 9 ай бұрын

Edifying! I'm in the process of designing a workbench for hand tool woodworking, and I've just added the planing stop, the planing beam, a peg near the leg vise screw (for my vise-clamped sotck to rest against without touching the greasy screw) and a paring hook to the list of accessories that I had not thought about and will make my work much more efficient. Thank you!

@haroldschultz5864 Жыл бұрын

Sure like to thank you for these helpful tips . My skills could really use improving and I get wrapped up in gadgets instead of concentrating on proper form . Much obliged for the help . Blessings

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

I think we all do that. It may even be a necessary part of the skill building journey. I have probably bought and sold way more tools and gadgets than I currently own. The more I work, the more I seem to pare down my tool kit and focus on optimization.

@patseevers262 Жыл бұрын

It continues to amaze me the confidence with which you wield a saw. I need several more years of practice! Great video.

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

You might be surprised what 10 minutes of focused sawing can do for you. So much of our projects involve sawing but that is interrupted by so many other tasks. You've given me an idea for a video actually...well one I've already made in The Hand Tool School but should also put out something similar on this channel.

@thomashverring9484 Жыл бұрын

@@RenaissanceWW Let me just say from the future that that training video ("5 exercises ...") you made was awesome! :^)

@patjackson1657 Жыл бұрын

I have really enjoyed your videos, and have learned a great deal. Thank you! Then you show up in a Grateful Dead shirt! You really know how to keep a fellows attention!

@mathewhoff2047 Жыл бұрын

What another video!? 😳 Thank-you

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

I know right I'm supposed to keep making them I think.

@Swarm509 Жыл бұрын

Recently cut my first mortise and tenon joints (16 of them actually!) to build a Paul Sellers bench stool for myself and I can already see advantages to holding work without a vice and how it would of sped up some of the work. I think the next thing I need to look at is adding dog holes to my current bench and see how it works for me. Watching the board milling video just drives that home more. Plus I plan to rebuild my current bench (one I was given by a friend and really isn't that great) so it would be good to build-in the features such as front apron.

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

I'm a fan of adding dog holes as you need them but if you want a good starting place I made this video on my "system" for locating them: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r9B1fpmk3t2shWw.html

@DessieTots 3 ай бұрын

Really appreciate this video since work holding seems to be my nemesis. I’ve never managed to get to grips (no pun intended) with planing stops and dogs, etc. But now I’ll have another go at the techniques shown since I find my vice to often be a hindrance when it comes to checking progress.

@RenaissanceWW 3 ай бұрын

I think you will find your technique will improve when the work isn't clamped down.

@jerbear7952 3 ай бұрын

Mommy, why is that poor man left handed? (Oh also thanks for the knowledge and good video and stuff like that) 😊

@billtiffin8298 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for another inspiring video

@user-qg6fy4yp8t Жыл бұрын

That is a flexible mind bench.....i build an English joinery bench, i had pegs holes, build a leg vice, crochet ( less using it), and im using simple ( not expensive) stops and i can adapt my self to almost any situation. That is a good video!

@joeygreear7099 Жыл бұрын

Great tips Shannon!

@rickstreet5310 Жыл бұрын

Great video, thanks.

@michaeldean2053 Жыл бұрын

Great bench video learned a lot.

@robertberger8642 6 ай бұрын

Excellent video

@rickgaber3961 9 ай бұрын

Learned a lot! Thanks.

@slavkochepasov8134 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing planing! It is invaluable for a beginner like myself!!

@harrymason1053 7 ай бұрын

I worked for many years with just a stop tacked in place. We were using belt sanders so we used the stops at the opposite end of the bench, but the same principle is at work.

@athmostafa2462 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing 👍

@haroldshipley8900 Жыл бұрын

Great video

@daniildanzig2842 3 ай бұрын

Very informative

@cerberus2881 9 ай бұрын

I built a Moravian in '21 with a sweet wood screw vise on it and I take that off for many different operations. The bench breaks down in under 3 minutes and is very portable.

@fredpierce6097 Жыл бұрын

I’m convinced!

@jennessalynam7682 Жыл бұрын

Badass T-shirt, man! Great video too. Thanks.

@imager8763 Жыл бұрын

Great video, thank you!! (FYI The sound was perfectly synced)

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

I was just happy the sound of the Osprey screeching out the window was super obvious.

@stevenlee9994 Жыл бұрын

great video! thanks! on a side, the natural lighting in the Maine shop looks great.

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

Its one of the reasons I love working in that space. The sound of the Osprey hunting just outside the window is nice too.

@JasonRSpenny Жыл бұрын

In today's episode, we examine how to turn a vacation into a business trip and the tax implications thereof. 😂😂 Nice to see the alternate techniques. Never know when my vises won't cover the situation.

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

for the last 11 years all my "vacations" have been this way. Accountant's advice

@JasonRSpenny Жыл бұрын

@renaissanceWW I believe you mentioned that on woodtalk once. Part of what made me think of it. If it's legal, it's legal. 🙂

@rickgatewood6442 Жыл бұрын

I think you picked a good time to come to Maine. We had some brutal temps in July. :)

@deezynar Жыл бұрын

Ian Kirby made this argument in Fine Woodworking magazine in the early 1980s.

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

and I'm sure scores of other woodworkers made the same claim for centuries before him. Keeping the legacy alive.

@deezynar Жыл бұрын

@@RenaissanceWW Yes, Kirby said he was describing the traditional methods that he had been taught as an apprentice in England.

@michaelwright1852 5 ай бұрын

You prob won't see this but, Greatfull Dead, great!!!

@Mark_Wood Жыл бұрын

Fantastic video! Thanks Shannon

@makenchips 3 ай бұрын

When doing these things just remember the ergonomics be them it's not just workholding

@spike.strat1318 Жыл бұрын

The guy in the Grateful Dead shirt telling us he has no vices…pressing x to doubt.

@rossanctuary5238 11 ай бұрын

Idk... Doing wood work without a vise, just made me realize how much I need a vise

@andrewbrimmer1797 Жыл бұрын

I hope that being viceless you have a jerry day and no long strabge trips

@danielkirkhart Жыл бұрын

Love the video! Are you sure you want to create this new precedent of a video ever other week?!?!? :)

@jagx234 Жыл бұрын

I love my vise-less Nicholson

@1deerndingo Жыл бұрын

I'm just starting to build a heavy bench for home right now. I want tobe ableto work on either side of it and was thinking I'd build it as a joiners bench on one side and plain on the other. That way I can use the hold down and dog system on one side and a contemporary system on the other. I got a "once in a lifetime deal" on a 9" wood worker's vice. After watching this video I'm wondering which side to locate the vice. I was going to install it on the joiners side and recess it flush to the face to make the jaw flush. I'd be very appreciative to read your thoughts on such a thing. thank you

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

I'd be really curious to see how you design a dual identify bench like that. Tho I will tell you in actual working there is not such a big difference that having two sides like that will make. Regardless I'm partial to leg vises over all other styles but if the front vise is of a good quality that won't rack or sag over time it can be a powerful addition to add into the front apron. A leg vise will allow you to use the whole front apron though while the front vise will not. So I would actually install it on the non apron side of your bench.

@1deerndingo Жыл бұрын

@@RenaissanceWW I'll send photos when I get this built. You might have been around the block a few more times than me so what design would you use for the non-joiner bench side. Following our discussion so far, the steel wood workers vice will be going on the contemporary side. It'll be timber faced and the stationary draw will be flush with the face of the bench. I'' put together a leg vice for the joiners side. The overall bench height will be 34" but a moxon mini bench will be stored under the bench for dovetale et al work. Thank you

@wesandell Жыл бұрын

@@1deerndingo Chris from Third Coast Craftsman did something like that. He essentially built a roubo with an apron like a nicholson on one side. So, he can be viceless on one side and vice...more? on the other. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jMdop8931dTMgps.html

@David-fv7zg 9 ай бұрын

This is an older video, so I hope you are able to respond, but I can't think of any operation that I would need to do, that can't be done on this vice. Other than what was discussed in your video, are there any operations that can't be done, or are much more difficult on this bench than on one with a vice? Thank you so much! I found this to be fascinating, I never thought this through in this way before.

@RenaissanceWW 9 ай бұрын

Nope that's kind of the point of the whole video. Certainly a leg vise does add some convenience but this workbench have proven time and again to be able to handle anything I throw at it. I've build multiple pieces of furniture, small projects, and tools on this bench with no need to add a vise.

@LitoGeorge Жыл бұрын

Question for you: how would I hold a 1/2" thick piece of oak thats about 4"x4" high and long without a vice, while it stands on edge? I need to shave it with a spokeshave, possibly drawknife, and then plane the edge.

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

I'd wedge it between 2 pegs into the apron or ideally 1 peg and the shaft of a holdfast then use the holdfast to secure it to the front of the bench. Or take a tip from the Colonial Wheelwright and sandwich the piece between the bench and your gut and shave the edge that way. Many wheelwrights used a small dog with a metal point on the end stuck into the front apron. I actually demonstrated this technique recently during a Hand Tool School presentation. Its very fast to manipulate the work piece and you get full access to every side of it.

@nunya931 9 ай бұрын

Now I'm really curious. At about 43 seconds in you state you have two vises at home, but only use one? Face or tail? Six shots or only five? I gotta know...

@nunya931 9 ай бұрын

Oh duh. It's your Roubo...you're talking about the leg vise is the main one you use? Right? Just curious which you find the most useful if you were to have a vise at all. I'm still in the process of figuring out what (or if) I want for a workbench. I've gravitated from power tools to Japanese saws, but much prefer western bench planes. I have a couple sets of bench chisels, but likely would be indifferent to whether they were eastern or western. Most of my work is done on a pair of Van Arsdale Japanese-style sawhorses and a slatted 29"x72+ two inch think "base" I lay across it. This winter I'm going to do something to improve this. Limited space has kept me from building a "proper" workbench, and it hasn't stopped me from building a desk and now a bed frame. I might just do some planing beams or torsion beam/boxes to lay atop the saw horses and clamp in place. Clamp another board between the two stretchers and it really locks it down and prevents racking, what with the wide feet of the sawhorses...

@sambsialia 8 ай бұрын

Could you comment on the Roman style bench?

@RenaissanceWW 8 ай бұрын

Not really as I've never worked at one. Although I suppose my sawbench is a close approximation. Personally I don't see the appeal when compared with a Nicholson style as shown here but perhaps I'm missing something other than the dead simple construction of the Roman bench.

@feedthechunk9836 Жыл бұрын

I don't have a vise. I tend to get "creative" when it comes to clamping a work piece. How about some tips on using a shoulder plane? I can't seem to use mine and keep the rabbet / shoulder square.

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

first tip is dont use a shoulder plane for rabbets, Use a Rabbet plane. Preferably an old wooden one. Better balance, better shaving management. I have several videos in my channel on this topic

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

Shoulder planes vs rabbet planes: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gc5do5eKrODNaHk.html

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

Rabbet plane 101: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ept8n7OenrXWhGw.html

@vogonpoet5860 Жыл бұрын

you absolutely cannot use a bench hook to cut using a Japanese pull saw , AT THE MOMENT ! I am working on that though

@RenaissanceWW Жыл бұрын

sure you can. Turn it around and hook it over the far side of the bench or it a split top, hook it into the center slot. In my early hand sawing days when I was still messing around with both Western and Eastern saws I built a bench hook with the fence more in the middle of the platform that allowed me to put the workbench on either side and use either type of saw.

@vogonpoet5860 Жыл бұрын

@@RenaissanceWW iwas thinking webbing and hooks for varied width benches, but yours is simpler! duh! I forgot KISS, WHY DO SIMPLE WHEN YOU CAN OVER THINK !!! Thanks, easy when you think about it !

@annarboriter Жыл бұрын

I cringe whenever I see a quickrelease vise on a woodworking bench, imagining the sound of formerly sharpened and set saw teeth encountering the cast iron surfaces

@brianbarney1885 Жыл бұрын

That’s why I added thick wood jaws that are wider and taller than the metal jaws, I’ve never sawn into the cast iron but certainly have nicked the wood a number of times😙.