I don’t have any washers in the current path. Look again at the video. It would be a mistake to put a stainless washer in the current path and would create heat under high current flows.

As I said you got it right with the washer despite the instructions which have it wrong, I was pointing out the mistake in the instructions for people. The busbar is the wrong way round as you've got copper to PEM nut to copper, It's been working for 6 months so it should be fine hopefully others won't make the same mistake. The Seplos instructions have it the correct way @@RayBuildsCoolStuff

I have reviewed the build and the instructions and now understand what you are saying about the PEM nut. This is definitely a mistake and easily fixed by flipping the busbar as you said. I wrongly assumed that the nut was tinned copper but a little filing set me straight on that. I haven't run really big amps through it so I had no indication of the problem but it would definitely cause an issue. Thank you for bringing this to my attention as I rarely go to Will's forum these days. I will pin this comment thread to the top of the comments and contact Docan about the mistakes in their instructions.

@RayBuildsCoolStuff Docan did nothing unfortunately about the PEM, I have that battery box bought from them and another one is arriving. It is running since may with the bus bar with PEM nut on the current flow as per instructions. I have also washers on the current path on the fuse, something that is not in the instruction anymore (what you have on 30:04), maybe I used old instructions as well, I checked on the latest pdf on gdrive and that is corrected. I will fix everything soon, and I will take a look also at the terminal connectors which I do not like, it seems they can be an issue as well, I would like to change them with the screw ones ad so so I need to take some measurement.

where in CA? Im in orange county looking to do the same?

What did you get for 2600. What cells

I’m glad I could help.

Thanks 👍

​@@RayBuildsCoolStuffDo they make a 24v kit?

@@michaeld4502 I don’t think so.

On this one it is aluminum and I've already proven to myself that the surface area is inconsequential due to the smaller surface area just having greater psi or force per area. In all my testing I found that prep trumped surface area every time. I made a video about adding aluminum washers to the terminals to improve surface area and it actually increased the overall resistance of the connection. When I bought the aluminum washers and did the test I expected far different results than I got and I did the first test on the video so it ended up having a different purpose than I thought it would. I ended up proving once again that data is worth more than theory. I keep forgetting that. It is interesting that they had it under the busbar on the Seplos kit like I did in my video and shows it on top of the busbars in this kit.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff agreed, plus ( and verified this) the seplos kits they are tinned soft copper rings, so actually crush rings..

Always good comments David

Two concerns with plastic boxes is the difficulty in making secure connections and the generally weaker structure of most plastic enclosures.

I was thinking a similar thing, where I've seen busbars that are crescent-moon shaped (half a flat ring?), alternately, one (or two) large diameter, short, flat, woven copper fabric (see 'Ground Strap', or 'Grounding Braid').

Seplos or this similar one from Apex.

Can’t tell the difference. Surely the same factory.

Hi Sam The settings in the unit will work and as you learn more you may decide to make adjustments but many people don’t. I have videos about top balancing but that should be done prior to assembly. One thing you can do is get a power supply and top up individual cells to get them closer. You will want to get the battery charged until there are cells in the 3.5v range. Some will be lower. You can top these up individually. Set the power supply to 3.65 volts, connect it across an individual cell that measures below the rest and watch. Let the cell get a bit above the others (maybe 3.520v) because the voltage will settle back a bit after the power supply is removed. This may take a long time depending on the variation in the state of charge. If you need to leave it unattended then disconnect the power supply, adjust the setting to 3.55 volts and reconnect so you don’t overcharge the cell. This is not failsafe as the cheap power supplies can fail so don’t leave home with it running, just to be on the safe side. I should probably do a video on this method.

Too bulky and hard to coordinate with the existing flat "cabling" system.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff - other than the your fuse versus what you use - I think it’s a “go” for me young man! Thanks again!

It took a while but glad they made the change.

Take your time and it would be about two hours. Once you know what you’re doing it would be a little over an hour probably.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuffthank you!

Look for my video about building my DIY solar generator. There is even a playlist. You can make it as simple or complex as you wish.

What evidence supports this claim? I have looked for failures related to this claim but haven’t found them.

I’ve never tried to buy any in that size. Have you asked Jenny Wu. She is my trusted source for cells.

I do polish but didn’t show that. I prioritized what I presented and I do these videos without a script so what you see is just what occurred to me as I made the video. I have to keep the flow in my head and also keep track of what I’ve already said so I don’t repeat myself. That’s why you see me hesitate as if lost in thought sometimes. It’s all part of my process and style and sometimes things fall between the cracks. I don’t think there is room for a T class fuse inside, mostly because of how the supplied flat flexible cabling is run and how it would need to be modified to work. The existing fuse location is too tight for the fuse holders I use. Also I’ll take this opportunity to correct something I said in the video. The class T fuses I use are actually 200A, not 225A. I don't use paste under the nut because I wouldn't want the lubrication and it isn't my current path. The threaded studs and nuts are stainless and that isn't a good electrical conductor.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuffRay, was the person you saw who shorted their battery Maddy from "The digital mermaid" kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fs6ZeM6qm5qmfJs.html. I have heard from a number of persons in the lithium battery community not to use ANL fuses because in the event of a short there could be so much current flow that the short circuit arc created might not be extinguished when the fuse blows and the current is not cut, not something I would like to see happen. Have you got any more information regarding the use of this ANL type of fuse since making this video. Thanks so much.

@@sammaimas155 yes Be careful about falling into group think regarding fuses or any of a number of things. Class T fuses are more robust but all the people that bad mouth ANL fuses don’t show evidence of properly rated fuses failing to function properly. Same goes with flexible busbars. There is no evidence that they are needed in a properly built and restrained system and millions of batteries have been built with rigid busbars. The internet is not flooded with pictures of failures and that’s rather surprising considering how many of these things are built by amateurs with no mechanical inclination. There is no room in the metal box to fit a class T fuse. I’m ok with it but certainly we need additional breakers in the system for other reasons.

You may have missed it in the video but I find the resistance of the connections is better when the paste is used and I suspect it bridges minute gaps. If we could tighten these connections with more torque it probably would not help but we probably end up with small gaps. I speak of this in at least 3 of my other videos but probably more. Hope that helps to explain my thoughts on this. I actually did a good bit of research on this and found a consensus that was borne out by my testing.

The Eva seperate is meant not be firm.. It makes sure pressure is even on the cell

@@houseofancients from watching lithiumsolars videos I’d say that type of foam allows for the cells to deform at the electrodes due to not applying enough pressure at the electrodes due to that type of foams nature.

So you prefer the way I do it on my battery boxes. I think I'm ok either way and I rather like the way the kit does it. I think the terminals can withstand some lateral force and the foam gives the excess force someplace to go compared to those that just push them up against each other with no restraint and then hope for the best. Restraint or restraint with the EVA foam are both viable and workable solutions in my opinion. Based on watching the experience of others, no restraint and just letting them sit on a shelf is a bad idea. I cringe when I see some of the ideas that get bandied about on the internet by people with an obvious lack of engineering aptitude.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff If there is no expansion allowed the pressure will be redirected in another direction, better let a small amount of expansion in the "natural" direction to prevent "un-natural" expansion which could be upwards against the top plate of the battery.

😅😂

6nm

I keep it simple and yes you can see the paste in the video and I describe the tool I made to apply it.

KZfaq hint: if you just put 18 {colon} 16 for 18 mins 16 secs like 18:16 then youtube will automatically make it a link into the video. Handy!

drilling and tapping copper is very easy to do, but the threads aren't very strong, and it's easy to get loose threads if drilling and tapping by hand. It is best done on a milling machine or a quality drill press (one without much or any wiggle in the head). Better yet is to put a nut on the bottom side of the copper bus bar.

With good cells I don’t think it is necessary and the overall capacity of the battery being substantially limited would be the only reason I would consider one and I would first consider swapping weak cells into weaker batteries.

I would but after using them, I really like them and they are available on Amazon.

With good cells it works fine. Parameters are adjustable.

All of the power supplies that I have used reduce the amperage as the target voltage is approached. I don’t know of any that do not have that behavior. My tester, the EBC A40 L, will maintain the amperage up to the target voltage before reducing.

You still want to keep an eye on your top balancing set up. Once you reach the target voltage you want to disconnect. The voltage goes up really quickly towards the end. Once you get up into the 3.5 V range it will not take long before you’re done.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff thanks the the quick response, the cells arrived at 3.6v. Should I do a capacity test and then top balance or use the bms to top balance instead

I agree although it is done somewhat routinely. I won’t do it.

Ok, why do you think so?

I’m sorry but I’m confused as to what you are asking. Plug?

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff my kit came with a plug in lieu of a ring terminal to secure on outside of case. Like on the positive and negative lug on the outside of case. Unfortunately I don’t see where to attach a pic of what I’m talking about.

@@willardwilliams2668 oh, how nice. Yes crimp away.

Yes, absolutely.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff thanks a lot for your fast answer!

On a battery terminal you always put the highest current connection first and if you have others they stack in decreasing current order. The little tiny bms ring terminals will interfere with the high currents between the battery and the bus bar. Never do that.

Why does it not seem right? Where are you located?

Oh maybe I understand. It is the box and BMS that are 700$. The cells are additional to that.

thanks for the quick response, I have asked Jenny to also quote for the cells :)@@RayBuildsCoolStuff

Hi I think in this situation I would build some five sided boxes out of 2 inch polyisocyanurate foam. Just join the boxes together and put them over the battery boxes. If you left them like that all winter, the internal temperature would likely stay fine without any heating needed. The BMS will tell you if you get close and then you might have to put a little heating element in but you might avoid that altogether.

The horses are great. Jake’s training is coming along very nicely

I heard from a subscriber that they now have copper buss bars with threaded holes for the sensing wires.

In the US it is about 700 plus the cells so a total of around 2500 to 3000.

Thanks @@RayBuildsCoolStuff

How much was it?

@@supermo26 Cells $2000, case $700.

Contact Jenny Wu at jennywu896@gmail.com

Cobtrawith must be a typo. What did you mean to ask?

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff corrected :) cheers

@@sieciehmy contracts are with Docan but my contact is only with Jenny and the transactions are run through Alibaba. Jenny protects me with her honesty and is my advocate throughout the transaction. I continue to work with her and it is always an enjoyable experience.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff excellent thanks Ray, that's how it should be

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Ray sorry one more thing, did you also transfer money to Singapore when paying for orders with Jenny?

How much was that box and where did you get it?

yes I pay the fee.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Why is there a Alibaba fee when we are buying cells from a USA based warehouse?

@@stevenfrazier8939 you are buying from a Chinese company through Alibaba. Where their warehouse is located, does not affect the fact that you are buying from a Chinese company through Alibaba. If you were buying from a US based company, the price you pay would be substantially higher. The Alibaba fee, that you pay is a level of protection, for the fact that you are ordering from a foreign-based company. US courts don’t protect you from business transactions that might go south if the company is based abroad. This is no different than whether or not you are doing business with a company from say Holland. if you just do a wire transfer to a company in Holland and they don’t send you the product, what court will you file a lawsuit in? That is why when you do business abroad, you seek protections for the transaction. Alibaba offers that service for a fee. Whether or not that protection is adequate is another question. Sometimes it is and sometimes it is not. Adding another layer of protection by using a credit card is a wise move. Sometimes the conflict resolution has to do with a simple misunderstanding over expectations. Alibaba offers a written contract that sets out expectations. This is not a free service.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Thank you for explaining it. In the early 2000's I used to buy satellite equipment through Alibaba and wire transfers. I wanted to avoid that process if I could. I did not know they were involved it this way in the USA. I will be getting 48 - 64 cells and wanted it to go smoothly.

David, I'm interested in what Jenny said about the tapped copper bus bars - can she supply them?? I would like to order two of the case kits with 32 of the 304 Ah cells.

She said not at this time.@@KeithKropf

I’m really doing amazing. Lots of opportunities for great life experiences. The problem is it gets in the way of doing the things that I make videos about. In order to do the things that I would typically make a video about it requires me to prioritize those things over the fantastic activities that I’m getting to be a part of right now. I feel kind of bad about that and I’m going to be getting back into it eventually but things keep coming up one after the other. Thank you for checking in on me and I appreciate all your support over the last two years.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff It o.k. mate. I am out detecting today for gold again. So I know hobbies get in the way. lol Have a great week.

@@slugzgaming5158 I make a commission if you contact Jenny Wu at jennywu896@gmail.com and tell her I sent you. I don’t do affiliate links because it is a rabbit hole that often creates a motive to promote products that you might not otherwise and it can lead some to question your information. My channel is for information so I lean towards that and not income.

Not 100$😂

Will do I will contact her. I just saw these vertical boxes that stand up on the wall they look awesome I want one.

The best way to reach her is directly at jennywu896@gmail.com

Nope! Right ankle funny man.

I let everyone know to contact Jenny Wu at jennywu896@gmail. com

What's Jenny's normal response time? Sent an email a few days ago, but now response yet. Thanks!

@@nickvespa67 it is my understanding that they are on holiday until Friday of this week. I’m not sure what the holiday is but it runs from the 29th to the 6th. I’m surprised you haven’t heard from her because she usually works at night and while on holiday.

@@RayBuildsCoolStuff Thanks, Ray. Jenny contacted me later this morning. All good!

By the time I added up the cost of the BMS and the cabling and the connectors and the materials to build my own box it cost about the same. The difference is a whole lot less time putting this together than building my own, but as far as the money goes, I’m pretty sure it was a break even.

😂

This is normal behavior for lifepo4. When my cells that test above capacity sit fully charged the voltage drops into the 3.3** range and settles there. You can’t determine state of charge by voltage like you can with lead acid.

@RayBuildsCoolStuff what can be done to make the battery stay up at 3.45v because it seems like I'm not getting the most out of the battery when it drop to 3.31v, that's almost soom time to be in the cut off voltage, if you can advice me what to do please do so. Please and thanks.

@@UNLOCKCONNECTIONS read up on the charge curve of Lifepo4. With this chemistry the voltage drops off into the 3.3 range very quickly while the state of charge can still be near 100%. As the battery is depleted the voltage stays in a very narrow range of 3.3-3.2 volts until it is almost completely depleted and then drops quickly until the BMS cuts off the battery at 2.5 Volts. It then rises back into the 2.7 range even before charging occurs. Again, voltage is not how we determine capacity or state of charge.

@RayBuildsCoolStuff yeah I know voltage is not how you determine the capacity but even the AH doesn't stay up. I've seeing it's at 57AH at 3.31v, just the other day, July 2t, 2023 to be exact, I've even screen shot a pic of the bms and sent to jenny but as I said she's ignoring my messages