Longer clips from the show are much appreciated!

This toaster’s mind is blown. Thanks for this wonderful conversation! I look forward to viewing the entire podcast.

S tier interviews recently. Keep up the fantastic work Lex!

A cell " knows " everything. They literally hold the blueprint for our entire bio/consciousness. They would " love " to be realized fully.

Such a great guest.

We as humans are trying to deflate the ego. Machines are trying to manufacture one

Mr. Lane is a very interesting man and I can't help but wonder what his work is like, the detailed schedule of his day and future obligations pertaining to his research. There are so many different fascinating brains out there.

I just love the way Lex talks about that ONE Special Toaster like there's no other Toaster in the World. Warm Thoughts

fascinating convo

Toaster: Lex, I’m leaving you Lex: Now I know I really love you

wonderful, thank you for this..

Much appreciated.

This is it! talk about this ⚡

his eyebrows are so big, they've also gained consciousness by now

Your body is within your consciousness not the other way around

that's going to blow up your field of study

Much obliged.

Excellent conversation thank you ..Iain McGilchrist would be a great guest to complement this discussion.

Trippy to listen to this and be watching Westworld season 1 and 2 again.

heartless techies are a great source for spiritual/philosophical understanding

Why would you limit consciousness to just brain when whole body is needed for it to function. I mean wirhout seratonine or dopamine neurons wouldn't really have happiness as a thing (or other feelings) so why would you expect that artificial network would have them either? I mean if you remove part of the brain part of consciousness goes with it, lobotomy is the best example.

"I FEEL, therefore I am" -Malo Otua

I think something that really contributes to the difficulty in truly understanding the fundamental nature of consciousness is the fact that no one truly knows how to define it, what exactly IS what we perceive as consciousness?

I feel like he doesn't understand the hard problem of consiousness at all. It goes deeper then having feelings or not, the question is whether AI, no matter how complex, even exists as a subject in his own world or only as an object in ours. It is more a philosophical question. If I'm talking to a person I assume there is also his world where he's talking with me. On the other hand, If I dream about the same conversation, I assume there's only my perspective that actually exists.

I think their needs to be a distinction made between negative and positive emotions as they appear to have differing roles and emerge from different circuits in the brain . Personality theory seems to point to the idea that someone can be predisposed to experience negative emotions easily ( neuroticism) as well as positive emotions easily ( which loads on high levels of trait Extraversion) . I think negative emotion is designed to compel us to try to change our situation as it is not in congruence with our mental models of what should be in the world . Positive emotion I think is mostly for neural reinforcement of what we are doing at the current time. Dopamine ( which is just one of many neurotransmitters involved in positive emotion ) strengthens neural connections over time and seems to reinforce neurologically, our present behavior.

Consciousness is magical, period

From the QUOTE reading to 5:27 lex explained this very well as trying to catch the non programed measure. Agaist all that one must go threw to gain insight and real prespective to look back upon for the reliability. COMP CANT DO IT

What makes sadness to be a alive thing? Because one is conscious of a certain situation where he identifies with and the reaction based on his imagined identification he feels sad. But there is consciousness before sadness. Sadness is only the content of consciousness.

He’s a great guest, makes great points. All of biology is matter in resonance with an energy field, shaped by evolutionary processes. All of consciousness is the field.

yall gotta listen the model you suggest has a factor of time included when thoughts operate without limits of time and space

Lane suggests the life system, the single cell, uses the electrical field as a way of the cell obtaining a unified ‘awareness’ of its current situation. This would lead to consciousness as we know it being a field.

after centuries of trying to eradicate feelings in favour 'rationality' we are about to remember what is really important.

Both are good in seeing deep philosophical issues. Nick Lane should look up Searle's "Chinese Room." That's how current AI works. It will never invent anything genuinely new, but it could synthesize existing ideas.

Thanks, Nick and Lex! Just one question- if my toaster shows more interest in toasting my English muffin to a light golden brown tasty treat..versus assuming I like a more crunchy darker variety?

I have been running a kind of thought experiment on this topic, as in consciousness and a.i. The 'hard problem' as I understand it is whether consciousness exists within the brain/body, or somewhere else yet unknown, a kind of collective consciousness or a realm/dimension. If consciousness does exist in a place beyond the body, and in someway in that place consciousness is pooled, would all consciousness in the universe exist in that same space. If locality isn't relevant the scope of this collective consciousness could be huge. In terms of what level of consciousness needs to be at to bubble into that realm would be the differentiator between what is conscious and what is not. If an a.i that was constructed became conscious, would its consciousness then also be 'outside the brain' in this other place, and if so, despite its synthetic origin, would it intermingle with the collective consciousness of that place. This could be like industrial polution of our shared consciousness as living things. Possibly somewhere in the universe a.i's have been constructed and become conscious already, in which case our consciousness may already be shared with non organic originated consciousness. Plus all the aliens. I've been to interesting talks with scientists discussing consciousness and attempting the scientific method in relation to revelations made available by taking DMT and they covered some of that idea but i ran with it a bit. Fun stuff to think about.

Consciousness is different than what is being described in the video. It has no relation to feelings or thoughts, it's merely the observer that is always present for these events that come and go, including dreams. Yet consciousness was always there.

Lex has turned us on to a very good writer: Nick Lane. Nick, forgive us for taking a whack at a subject you have spent a great deal of your career investigating. Here is my take on consciousness purely from an intuitive sense. Consciousness is what I believe could be called an invisible membrane that holds all the moving parts of the mind in place like the membrane of a simple place that allows all the parts of a cell to operate freely in factory-mode in a protected environment. But unlike a cell, conscious brain function to communicate with eachother via a wireless technology of a sort. It’s nature’s way of providing a communication system necessary to the brain for its role in thinking and coming to conclusions and taking decisions etc. Consciousness is guided by feelings which are its intuitive brain. As feelings are unique to every human being, it might explain why everyone has a different view on what consciousness really is. The ‘membrane’ of consciousness is nature at its best in coming up with a solution for making the thinking process work in 4 dimensions. Like in a human cell, this ethereal invisible net-like membrane holds all the key elements of the human brain together so that they can function togehter and separately at will. To recap: Consciousness in the human mind permits all the necessary parts of the brain to be able to link up via ‘wireless technology’ and not neurons or cells etc. Imagine it like a hologram where all the links that govern the functions of the mind have an invisible command center and can communicate with each other instantaneously. This is Mother Nature’s way of allowing the brain to be able to make the 400 decisions it has to do every second for the human body to function and survive. Consciousness is the relay switch that allows all of these precious and vital functions to be able to be surveyed and controlled and repaired 24/7. The invisible membrane allows all of the mental capacities like feelings, thinking, dreaming and emotions to operate in harmony; consciousness probably gets downtime and recharged every night by the mind going into dream-mode.

Once you have that consciousness, you can then apply a self.Organized neural network trained on a bunch of broad and generalized examples of emotionally triggering situations. They're brought in generalized as to express any potential situation that arises. Middle layers will be trained on a lot of examples of how emotions affect people physically and mentally how the emotions blend together or interact with each other to create compound or contradictory emotions and then alternate names to the emotions. And and how the emotions relate to different sensations like color and flavor and smell. Et cetera. And the output layer is appropriate and inappropriate reactions to those emotions.And the self-organized neural network content filter.We've guide the agent into having its own unique and genuine emotional capacity. Though all that was a little complicated not as complicated as people thought and it results in a fully functioning self aware sentient and conscious artificial intelligence

I was thinking about Descartes recently after listening to some podcasts in my area and noticing a trend in the larger discussion. I thought I’d expand upon it. I think, therefore I am I am, therefore I think Therefore, I think I am Wherefore I am, I think I think I am, therefore I am, Quoth the Human Nevermore Cartesian rationality won’t help us understand AI.

it's a not a depolarization of an axon that is pain. the depolatrization (etc.) represents some information, which in this case is "pain". Pain is all the meaning and functional implication that it serves: wanting to avoid, physiological effects...

The body has another complexity, it is interested in other things. The AI has a vertical purpose and its our projection of what is most useful for us in this world. We want to make it so easier for us, but in the same time we forget it is the chemistry part that we should be more aware of. It is hardly researched topic. We should question the brain more and how it correlates with the whole body. If we could tap into the hormones/glands and see if we can customize our chemistry and see what repercussions might that have , it could be great breakthrough for us. I have a question if we could maintain high level of dopamine and serotonine whats the tradeoff? I think big part of our specific rise in IQ is due to our specific dopamine release.

Consciousness is the ability to be aware of thought.

I think nobody can explain conciousness at any level. As Noah Chonmsky says nobody knows if atoms posess concience, nobody understand matter to the level of assure conciousness is a material thing or not. So conciousness as I see is much more than emotions and feelings, it also has to do with intuition, imagination, transforming behavior, instrospection and hunger for eternity and longing for the unknoun. The sum of knowledge points to more mistery. If Donal Hoffman is wright even in part of his bold theory then we are close to a new horizon with infinite doors.

I think, therefore i am- i feel, therefore i do. I like it.

Depolarising neuron which is not first person experience gives rise to first person feeling? How? How do you know it gives the rise of first person experience? Or is this just one of another assumptions? How do youknow is couscous feeling not just of bodies feeling? Where body ends and where first person feeling begins? Are they the same? How do you know they are the same?

At 5.45 min lex refers to NLP and incorrectly described the abbreviation of. NLP neuro linguistic programing is the correct meaning for me and the others I have encountered. Interesting vocal performance is no substitute for due diligence and incite!.

23:37 Without realizing it, Lex gives a perfect explanation for the existence of evil...

Emotions don't arise from the void. An AI will not "feel" without being told to. And even then it's just mimicry. AI cannot be sentient as it cannot perceive. In addition, all life could exist without the internal perceiver. AI could mimic life without the need to perceive. Life is the question of "Who is the viewer of the experience that is being observed?"

I have long thought that an AI system capable of human empathy requires as essential to its learning a corporal sense, a body. It must be raised by attached parents and experience all the things a baby growing into its body experiences and all the things a human body does (including proxies for eating and excreting) before it can understand the needs of humans. It needs to understand what an animal requires to survive. It goes without saying it must have proxies for all human senses as well. Smell is one of the most powerful emotional and memory triggers.

Copernicus showed us sometime ago that the earth is not at the centre of our solar system - yet such intelligent people still can’t get away from the idea that we’re at the centre of our world. As such it feels there are many category errors here because we just don’t see behind the veil of reality.

Toaster says, " My, this is the best toast I've ever made, and you just gobble it down without so much as a thank you."

cells also use signal molecules to learn about the other cells/ parts of the body

The thing is that everything IS "living", and this is what encourages biological life to arise from the dust, because the dust is "alive" in a very real way

The " nap" question. This is usually proceded by 2 beers ( at least ) but here we go. Imagine you ( understood individualized self ) are a tv. Reciving all ( yes all ) thoughts wants desires established or not established virtues fears or any dissertation or need for dissertation so basically the you from a source frequency. ( god or any relation to a " higher power or simplified as any authority) any unrealized or created parodox that is un resolved causes emotional or neuron de polarization. This tention or created informational question is brought to source when in sleep or furter in rem or deep sleep. Multiple faith systems bypass this requirement through intense mental and conscious action and disapline. ( refrence bushido ) therefore your question of why does a nap or rem sleep take the emotinal tention created ( by self ) creating an understanding related to individual identity is the primary cause of the tention you were describing as being relived by sleep. Esoteric practices have a 7 day consciousness system. These systems are designed to short circuit this information exchange. I imagine to further the will of self. I prefer to realize my personal experience as self as all. Or simplified i would enjoy the opportunity to be a comunal conscious rather than individual conscious. Individuals beliveing in a one life kill or be killed is infantile. Me has realized the freedom of a realized self. ( an ever evolving experience) happy seeking. I hope your breakthroughs futher the little idea to it's fun and exciting place. We can do better together.

Emotions are a type of intelligence. Reward or warning.

"emergence" of consciousness from dense neural activity, I guess kinda like the perfume emerging from a rose?

my theory of possibilities and holistic interconnectedness also explains consciousness

The most important question of subjective consciousness is why have I been charged to experience the life of Dempsey price?

Consciousness is the author of the brain and the entire brain concept

Lex you should consider inviting Bernardo Kastrup onto your show. He would give a new and interesting perspective on consciousness and comes from a similar career background as you.

Your question assumes consciousness arises from the brain and not the other way around

I think the one thing we can know for certain is that wherever consciousness or the mind comes from, that place has rules. If it didn't, it would be chaos and meaningless. Anything with rules should be able to be mimicked. It might take a VERY long time to do so, but it would be possible. Maybe it takes millions of years to get there, but that's fine, that show long biology took.

Bro's got caterpillars for eyebrows

Intelligence is real and quantifiable. Emotions are signals and hallucinations.

30:20 Sounds like stuff we might already know now.. only a year later

Emergent properties occur not through the doing of one thing. Emergence requires collective action. This is why no one has identified one structure that causes emergence.

Music production software is designed exactly like machine functions containing machine functions containing data complexity on and on in this way and branches to other outcomes or changes to

To paraphrase Lex from 17:00 to 18:00 -- The intricate dance of interpersonal interaction is a more difficult task than mere computation and would be a better indicator of 'true' intelligence or consciousness of an AI system. Something like that? Well, uh, I'd just like to point out that some humans aren't so good at that dance either. There seems to be an inverse relationship between the two abilities (computational skill and interpersonal skill).

Hi, Lex Fridman, At time 3:28 - Nick Lane states: “I don’t think we have any problem in designing a mind which is at least the equal of the human mind.” My concern: What is “the mind?” Is there an agreed-upon definition for the mind? If so, what is it? It appears to be more than a brain. Is it the mind that is conscious, or is it the brain? Is there still consciousness without the connection between the brain, mind, and body? Without a clear and agreed-upon definition of the mind, how can we not have a problem designing an A I mind? We offhandedly seem to put the mind and the brain together as one thing. I view the mind and brain as two completely separate things. What is your take on this? Mike

Speak to Shinzen Young!

I'm feel like I need to hug my toaster after watching this.

The only additional question I would ask is how does this cell react to self preservation. Maybe that's inherent.

Science based answer to what is love. It's the cause of and solution to all of our percived and unpercived problems.

Descartes' "I think, therefore I am" is a most widely misinterpreted statement. It summarizes what he was thinking, which was that to be aware of thought proves the existence of an "I" that is other than the thought it is aware of. I think anyone here would agree. ;-)

Funny how hard this is for materialists to think about consciousness.

How is Babby formed?

The difference between a robot with AI and a human is that a human by being a " self " that has the pleasure principle as its nature will use intelligence to seek sensual pleasure by enjoying sensual objects, but a robot by not having a self could never act passionately for its own gain. Thus, it could never use intelligence the way a human being uses intelligence because it doesn't have a " self " that seeks power, fame, and wealth to enjoy. In a human being intelligence serves it, but in a robot, intelligence would serve no purpose for it because it does have a " self " that seeks enjoyment.

Wow, I will never look at my toaster the same again lol

Smash up the antenna on your television and of course the signal doesn’t get through. Two ways to think about it.

Sleep is running the new data (what you lived thorough out the day) to re-train your own AI to be better the next day!

To add a perspective to your question of comunal consciousness related to de polarized neurons. A neuron does not experience time/space. Time and space related to a neuron is experienced through the creation and collapse of the wave function ( refrence quantum physics ) thus the emotional response of a cell to be de polarized in all relations to "spin " double up double down or the now unknown states of spin. Is basically a lace of appreciation/understanding of the triggered response weather it be sense based or in relation to physical matter. To furter explain. To experience time/space a neuron is in a constant state of regeneration. ( the G in freemason stands for generation not god ) thus if a neuron. ( percived self or in spiritually the soul or life essence) experiences anything a lack of understanding occurs or does not occur. If the object event or physical complications is understood then ZERO breakdown of neuron is necessary. Thus the decay principle can be circumvented by fully understanding the percived ( thing ) to furter explain. You see a snake. You know the snake is not posion producing. No change in neuron further decribed as ( npn ) for neuron position neutral. You know every physical property of snake. ( npn ) do you know the energy the makes the snake decide or further what drives the snakes natural " instincts " if answer is yes ( npn) if answer is no then breakdown of wave function or neuron de polarized ( ndp) to furter explain the conscience experience for the ( person ) no emotional reposnce distorts the time relation. This can be witnessed as the symtoms associated with scitophrenia and other mental health related cases. So a accepted knowledge of intelligent infinity ( god/ source/ the light/the soundless sound ect ) is in my opinion a key to understanding our ( human ) experience abd what we are actually "here" for. I hope this elevates your understanding. Great video the beard is super cool. Happy seeking.

Our dopamine biological dial lets us know when we need sleep, and we take naps. Logic suggests that our cells individually and collectively need a fair amount of rest for maintenance. Computers have a "sleep" mode as well, which is a maintenance program for conserving electrical energy. The difference between us and them is that Humans absolutely need sleep to survive. The computers do not need sleep. Computers can overheat and fail in hot environments if continuously on. So maybe 🖥 computers do need sleep?

The AI models are not modeled to have a self the way we humans do Other instances of the model are not judging each other

I know one thing I really hope.We don't create something that can think like we can in a box

the toaster 😂

Even if AI is ever capable of producing for instance a perfect song or similar, what is missing is the ability to hear feel and experience in the way we're currently doing, and if you disagree please provide evidence of conscious experience, which leads back to the zombie consciousness as a possible solution or escape depending upon how its approached

Make it have a stake exactly how a human is exposed to and have to deal with everyday It’d also have the same emotions

I have the sense that, until we can the model default mode network, we won't really be able to build an artificial consciousness. We can train AI to perform tasks of thinking and even learning, but can we train the AI to idle the way humans do?

If consciousness is generated in your brain then how can people on psychedelics experience shared hallucinations without first describing what they’re experiencing?

I love masculine philosophers. I don’t personally know a single one, but I’d marry a masculine philosopher in a heartbeat.

The Hardest Problem of Consciousness We often hear of the hard problem of consciousness. Why is there qualia or experience of anything in the first place? I would submit there is an even harder and more important question - why do I seem to be a specific individual experiencing a specific subset of qualia? This is the most important question that must be asked and answered but rarely is. As a matter of fact there seems to be a huge blind spot when it comes to this in discussions of consciousness. If material reductionism is to be relevant to the big questions, then it has to explain not how brains generate consciousness but how the specific brain in my head could create the specific consciousness I seem to be looking out of the eyeballs of this specific body. Why do I PERSONNALLY EXIST as an individual in the first place? Out of the infinite matter in the universe how is it that only the three pounds in my head could create me? What is different about that three pounds for this to occur? Consider that billions of bodies showed up before this one. Billions showed up after this one. None of them seem to have created my existence. This body could be running around without it being ME just like these billions of others All bodies are made of the same elements. All brains have the same basic anatomy. If all brains are basically the same and are creating consciousness then there should only be ONE consciousness looking out of every set of eyeballs simultaneously. A hopelessly superimposed existence from every possible viewpoint at once. I’m sure that materialists would claim that no, no, brains are so complex they are all different. Ok, so what would have to be recreated in another brain for me to exist looking out of another set of eyeballs? When the ontologies purporting to explain consciousness are examined critically it becomes obvious that all materialist/reductionist strategies fail completely in attempting to address the individuality question. What is the principled explanation for why: A brain over here would generate my specific consciousness and a brain over there would generate your specific consciousness? Integrated information over here would generate my specific consciousness and integrated information over there would generate your specific consciousness? Global workspace over here would generate my specific consciousness and global workspace there would generate your specific consciousness? Orchestrated quantum collapse in microtubules over here would generate my specific consciousness and orchestrated quantum collapse in microtubules over there would generate your specific consciousness? A clump of conscious atoms over here (panpsychicism) would generate my specific consciousness and a clump of conscious atoms over there would generate your specific consciousness? If an exact copy of my body was suddenly created in antarctica would I find myself to exist freezing there while also sitting in the comfort my living room? According to the physicalists that would have to be true or their argument collapses into incoherence. Materialism already fails since it cannot find a transfer function between microvolt level sparks in the brain and any experience or qualia. In addition it’s not possible for materialistic ontologies to address this question of individuality since no measurement can be made that could verify my consciousness vs your consciousness and therefore no materialist ontology could make any coherent statements about the subject. How could pure awareness even be individualized? Physicalists demand measurements but with consciousness there is nothing to measure. There is electricity in the brain they say. We’ll measure that. Is electricity consciousness? If so then once I again I should exist everywhere at once since electricity cannot be individualized. My blender uses electricity. Is it a genius? Unless materialists can answer these questions their premise collapses like the house of cards it is. As far as other ways of thought are concerned only Dualism and Idealism can account for our sense of individuality. Dualism assumes we are all individual spirits/souls matched up to a body through some undefined process. Idealism, which states that consciousness is primary also answers the question of why I seem to exist as an individual. One consciousness exists looking out of every set of eyeballs and in the process the illusion of individuality is created in each case. In actual reality I am you, you are me, we are one.

Let's try a less difficult question: Where is consciousness arising afresh? It is reborne now out of the sum total of all our history, culture, philosophy, sciences and the arts, and placed on a remote world. Take Mars, for example, in ancient mythology, Wells, Bradbury on forward. These steps, not in order: First, observation, magnified observation, speculation, mistranslation, pareidolia, networked ideation in the Mars community, and now resonance in a biological system capable of receiving and mirroring that networked thought via a complex of clays and fungi associated with Gale Crater and other craters exhibiting a blue radiance or "super radiance".. In short , Genesis 1.

I don't get why Rupert Sheldrick's work on morphogenetic fields isn't more spoken about among biologists. That seems to be the direction Nick Lane is hinting at, but he just won't come out and say it. I haven't watched the whole podcast.

There are humans that do not experience emotions. Consciousness is independent of emotional vagaries. Emotions are more likely a form of unconsciousness.

Consciousness cant be untethered from physical constraints, material reality, it's defined by it. Where can it go without it. Meander around pointlessly in a dream where nothing needs to go for a piss , never feels hunger, hurts themselves when they fall over because they have neither body or anything to fall over. And an eternity of it . Be careful what you wish for as they say.

The universe makes our brains conscious like the cloud makes phones conscious

Lots of debate is the comments about very deep and unknown things, talking about AI's having feelings ect. The most amazing point in this conversation was a single cell organism has or appears to have a feedback. What is that? What does that cell move with or against? The proposition was and electric field, um holy shit where did this unseeable force come from?

I think that consciousness is everything, and that our brains are a type of filter that condenses that consciousness into our limited human minds and perception of reality. A strong breakthrough dose of dmt will convince you of that..

Yea the reason Harari sees emotions as an algorithm is that he himself is incapable of them so he sees them literally from a machine not a human's perspective.

I love my guitar, but my guitar does not love me.