Li-ion vs LiFePO4 Batteries: Advantages and Disadvantages

Рет қаралды 313,822

3 жыл бұрын

My book "DIY Lithium Batteries" on sale at amzn.to/2jbxvzS
My book "Ultimate DIY eBike Guide" on sale at: amzn.to/2BGx4Fn
5% off these 5000 mAh LiFePO4 batteries from bit.ly/Battery_Hookup with code EBIKE
The gear I use to make my videos:
Camera - Nikon D5300: amzn.to/2DcuVlM
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Camera for invisible selfie stick shots: amzn.to/2Vb9D0r
Here are some of the products I use:
Bafang BBS01 kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/N0sm1W1w
Bafang BBS02 kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EcGPWXRE
Bafang BBSHD kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/MMNrZUC0
250W complete e-bike kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cQzxxhpm
500W complete e-bike kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/o6rnMv1q
1,000W complete e-bike kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/NGZvnq3Q
36V 15Ah Hailong (shark) battery: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/CAEvhRSY
48V 15 Ah triangle battery: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/234OZ5Kg
52V 20 Ah triangle battery: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/m0huJ2PI
All ebike batteries: goo.gl/7pAi9Z
All 18650 cells: goo.gl/hYWnwU
100W Flexible solar panel: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/DurJQaTe
100W Folding solar panel: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/C9raRNuM
Cycle Analyst: goo.gl/RsmE3N
The parts that I use for building batteries:
18650 cells: goo.gl/aEabAQ
18650 positive insulating washer: goo.gl/HBVOuc
Nickel strip: goo.gl/VIrNQq
Spot welder: goo.gl/KN3Uaw
BMSs: goo.gl/S6gSQx
Silicone wire: goo.gl/xmpbKD
Black 18650 cell spacers: goo.gl/hQxWF6
Vruzend cell spacers: goo.gl/5ReLqA
Large heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/6v1ow9
Small heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/OU3Z6u
Foam sheet for protecting battery: goo.gl/5e71tE
Kapton tape: goo.gl/D6BT57
Chargers: goo.gl/js0T0V
**Question response book giveaway rules**
When you guys asks questions in the comments of my videos, I'll try to answer them. If there are questions that I think would make a good video response, I'll choose them to do a longer segment. If I choose your question for a video response, you'll win a copy of my book The Ultimate DIY Ebike Guide (the paperback or the ebook), or my book DIY Lithium Batteries.
Here are some things that KZfaq makes me say: This contest is not sponsored by KZfaq and KZfaq isn't affiliated with it. I'm supposed to provide a link to the community guidelines for KZfaq (kzfaq.infocommunity_gu.... KZfaq is not a sponsor of this "contest" and by participating, you are releasing KZfaq from any potential liability, whatever that might be. Privacy notice: I won't steal your info. If you do win, you can choose to send me your address so I can mail you a paperback copy of the book (or some other prize if that changes) or you can send me an email address and I'll send you a copy of the ebook. I will do everything in my power to immediately forget your personal information afterwards.
Outro Music: BenSounds

Пікірлер: 623

@superdau 2 жыл бұрын

To avoid confusion: *LiFePo are Li-ion batteries.* "Li-ion vs. LiFePo" is only a colloquial distinction, but won't help you when looking for technical or scientific information. It is pretty much the same as the other often used colloquial distinction between "Lipo and Li-ion", labels which were wrongly assigned to pouch cells vs. cylindrical cells (the contents are pretty much the same). Li-ion is the name of all cells that use Lithium to store energy, which LiFePo do as well. The difference is that the cathode material contains iron-phosphate instead of the usual cobalt/nickel/manganese oxides. The rest is pretty much the same.

@PiDsPagePrototypes 2 жыл бұрын

Pronunciation makes ion vs Iron a pain, I've found calling them "Lithium Ferrous Phosphate" when selling them matches the lettering on the side better for customers to understand easily.

@ernanimartins Жыл бұрын

@@PiDsPagePrototypes Is the charging method is different? I am used to Lipo but not LiFePo.

@PiDsPagePrototypes Жыл бұрын

@@ernanimartins LiPo can accept a higher input current the LiFePo, and output much higher currents, and the voltage per cell is different 3.7v for LiIon vs 3.2v for LiFePo. This is why LiFePo is an easy replacement for AGM and Sealed Lead - similar charge/discharge and voltage per cell. Most commercially available chargers now have modes for Lead and for LiFePo.

@mrcleanisin 4 ай бұрын

Something is not right in your comment.

@conorhealy6392 2 ай бұрын

@@mrcleanisin Yeah, I don't think he watched the video....

@pokrec 3 жыл бұрын

Another feature: after a year of use, capacity of LiFePO4 decreases less quickly than the capacity of Li-Ion, so, after a year you are left with roughly the same energy density per mass / volume as with LiFePO4. And the capacity of Li-Ion battery is decreasing still more quickly...

@philc.9280 Жыл бұрын

I have both and never let either one drop below 60% so I'm hoping to get at least double or triple the cycles they are advertising. None of them have ever gone down to zero yet. I'm expecting at least ten or more years out of my Power Queen LifePo4 200 ah batteries

@Bulambo287 Жыл бұрын

@@philc.9280 you're right

@cjhan47 Жыл бұрын

the operation range for LiFePO4 batterys is down to 20% per cycle so it would seem you might just be wasting capacity And I'm not sure doing that extends the life of the battery.

@absolutium 23 күн бұрын

@@philc.9280That's helping no one.. the ideal state of Lithium based batteries goes from 30% to 85%.

@warrenkrup 3 жыл бұрын

Love your videos Micah, I rode my ebike in the snow last night, tons of fun!

@robotbroken 3 жыл бұрын

I recently purchased DIY rear Wheel Motor kit to install on a mountain bike that I built. I'm saving money now for batteries but have honestly been pretty confused about what I'm looking for. This video helped answer some of the questions that I had. I may try the LiFePO4 route. I look forward to your battery build!

@Xtrafix2015 3 жыл бұрын

I just finished second ebike thanks to your video and now making a three wheeler and business is soaring with your help thanks sooo much

@CabrioDriving 3 жыл бұрын

You are so good at teaching people. Also a nice person. Great to watch this.

@jeremyfagergren 3 жыл бұрын

As always, thanks for the great info and breaking it down quickly and easily. Also, your hair was definitely on point this episode.

@Danny_Elite 3 жыл бұрын

Nice! Can't wait to see the next video project using these batteries & then a follow up on how well they work/last long term

@craigcarman354 3 жыл бұрын

Here is my random comment! I already bought three of your books. Thank you for the informative battery videos and books.

@CarlosSanchezMusic4Life 8 ай бұрын

i've been using a LiFePo4 battery on my modded Lectric XP for a short while now, and super happy with it. i switched to this tech for the safety aspect

@donk.5730 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for mentioning prices, a big help for the DIY-crowd. It makes it more interesting to be part of off the grid crowd. Cheers, DK. . Cheers,...

@CloudXpat 2 жыл бұрын

I like the way you're explaining by highlighting both the pros and cons.

@oze-bikes4life663 3 жыл бұрын

Yep same, i would love to see a continuation video on your retro E-Motobike build in the near future. I still think its a cool concept that needs to be put on back on the streets. 👍👌😊🚴

@konte5222 3 жыл бұрын

Your channel has become my biggest source of knowledge in my bid to make a DIY e-bike battery, congratulations

@djsoundzebikelife4314 3 жыл бұрын

Can't wait to see the video for the build.

@corryn00 3 жыл бұрын

you just make it so easy to understand all this stuff.

@trxmedia 3 жыл бұрын

I'm building my own EV, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible about batteries. Thanks Micah for the info.

@monkeysezbegood 2 жыл бұрын

You da man. Do it.!

@kyriakos098 2 жыл бұрын

Go phosphate especially as it's your first build. Safe is always good.

@MichaelEricMenk 2 жыл бұрын

LiFePO4 are being used in commercial sold electric vehicles. Everything from semi tractors for 50t gross weight to Tesla (they use LiFePO4 in the small battery version).

@ledzeppelin1212 Ай бұрын

I've got LFP in my Tesla. I definitely think it's the way to go!

@waylonk2453 4 ай бұрын

Tremendously informative video covering all kinds of properties of each cell type. I learned a lot!

@robertd654 3 жыл бұрын

Happy New Year! Thanks for the great content....

@dcpiatt50 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing the difference between the two types of lithium batteries!

@chrisbarker270 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the info. Stay safe. Looking forward to the build.

@SMKreitzer1968 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the great info, look forward to the build and comparison.

@mayureshtandel0206 3 жыл бұрын

Right video at right time!!! I have also planning to switch to LiFePO4 from Lead Acid battery for my e-scooter.

@TheJguillory2008 3 жыл бұрын

I’m so glad I found your channel

@acehighdan 3 жыл бұрын

your content is always so informative, i really enjoy watching you videos

@albertlai695 3 жыл бұрын

First time leaving a comment on any KZfaq video! Really learned a lot from yours!

@arelkay730 3 жыл бұрын

Great! Can't wait for the build vid.

@placasowuicho967 3 жыл бұрын

Just found ur channel and it is a great explanation on the difference of both battery types.

@haroldbuchanan1284 3 жыл бұрын

Your videos are well formatted and informative. Thank you!

@brianosborne1437 2 жыл бұрын

Great content and if I had a kid I would require they watch you each day. Your a good teacher thanks

@migstory Жыл бұрын

this is great information, thank you for making this video as I'm starting a small company with lifepo4.

@felipedarciepereira5505 3 жыл бұрын

Love your content! I am planning to build an ebike myself and will use your videos and books as reference :D

@griffbrush3349 3 жыл бұрын

Dude thank you. I love your videos. I learn so much. Show me how to build a battery for my bike.

@boblogan6701 3 жыл бұрын

I wish to thank you for combining theory and practical data in such a clear and concise manner for the newbie. I have a request.... being totally new to the EV world (but with decades of computer technology involving seldom connected and emergency backup power needs)... I understand the compromises involved with such technology... however I searched long and hard for any coverage of Torque/Power outside the context of speed. I am not seeking speed but torque and your explanations have helped greatly. So my particular build will be require addressing my rather small radius of travel (local errands/shopping) over some very hilling terrain... STEEP hills. As a retired senior citizen 3 wheelers make sense, and since I shop exclusively at Big and Tall clothing stores a heavy steel frame makes sense... I also am considering FAT tires feeling not only a more comfortable ride but the increased roadway contact will maximize power transfer into forward progress... (???) SO MY REQUEST of you... do these design decisions make sense? Total weight factor will be plugged in at 500 lbs MAX... bike, electronics, rider and packages (figure weight of a gallon of milk, 12 pack of cola... $75 of fresh meat, produce and dairy can get hefty.) Finally with the trike frame and power train (as I understand it) ... we have a power driven axle rather than power driven hub concept (which is why all kits I have seen tackle by front wheel hub motors)... my concept will actually attach a second sprocket to that rear axle... giving (hopefully) max power delivery to rear of vehicle. Second option would be to put the spoke on the rear idle wheel and effectively have both wheels under power (weird kind of power assist). So in short my request is can you address trikes as ebike conversions... or off the shelf offerings? Finally I will impose upon your good nature and ask for your opinions and comments on my 'over loaded' e-bike concept.

@voltflake 3 күн бұрын

@mcdaddygee 3 жыл бұрын

Great video Micah. Thanks for the education.

@derykmacleod4979 3 жыл бұрын

I like the idea of increased recharge cycles of the LifePo4 batteries. I love this improving technology, and the amazing new products I am seeing! I want a hover skateboard one day lol

@pratiksonawane2741 3 жыл бұрын

Oh man i really want to learn how you build the battery packs and all!! after all videos are good and informative. Thank you ✔

@eusoj50 3 жыл бұрын

This video was well put together and it was very informative.

@pincus321 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your video I have already one of your books and it is very well presented, learnt a lot from it

@mikekearsley2407 3 жыл бұрын

Another absolutely fantastic vid.Thanks from Seattle.

@Wagonman5900 3 жыл бұрын

Good information. I used this to help pick out a jump starter.

@reeread 3 жыл бұрын

Thank You for the clear explanation of battery chemistries.

@greenpowerworks8779 3 жыл бұрын

Very informative, keep up the good work.

@luisoscar1840 Жыл бұрын

ebike school is the best channel to learn about ebike batteries, motors and all, 2022 and beyond.

@stephenhunter5564 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much Micah! I bought a bunch of LifePO4 cells and am hoping to start building some different systems. I have not been able to find any accessories however. For example: which nickel strips, which charger/tester, which spot welder, etc. I look forward to your upcoming video on the build, however, if you could pass along any specific info that would be great. Thanks again

@stephenhunter5564 3 жыл бұрын

Ok, so I just saw the video on a spot welder. Question is, can you power the welder with something other than a LiPO battery pack? It would be nice to not have to invest in another type of battery and charger, plus the Lipo's are more dangerous and that is one of the things that the iron phosphate are trying to avoid. If there is no other option, do you have a charger for the lipo pack that you recommend?

@mrsheabutter 2 жыл бұрын

I didn't know you were the author of those books!!! LOL! I bought the battery and solar book off Amazon and was just here because I wanted to see your take on the battery difference. Lol who knew!!! Good job on everything Mr. Toll!

@clouxles 3 жыл бұрын

Good information. Thanks looking forward to the build.

@matthieu8292 3 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to your build

@lnxpro 3 жыл бұрын

looking forward to the battery back build video. awesome :)

@starterpack3974 3 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to your next project

@jeanpaulcomeau8131 3 жыл бұрын

Pretty neat video on the subject. Easy to understand.. Thumbs up .. Greating from Malaysia

@monacomans 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing and clearing up some confusion.

@brettlloyd-brl5789 3 жыл бұрын

Thankyou for being precise and distinct with your statements, very well done.

@sbookeydoll 3 жыл бұрын

That was well said and easy to understand. Looking forward to more videos.

@DamonMedekMusic 3 жыл бұрын

This was immensely helpful thank you!

@jaybod6253 3 жыл бұрын

Looking forward to the build

@goldcoastjon 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. We are looking at buying a PV solar system* and concerned about the fire risk of using the various Lithium battery backups. The LiPePO4 backups sound much better. (*We are not ready to make or own backup batteries...yet!)

@billbeyatte 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent comparison. I learned a lot.

@janbrida7384 3 жыл бұрын

It is nice to see you explaining difference between those bat. I have one battery lifepo and going to replace it with Li-Ion so I need to keep in mind all things related to Li-Ion. Keep going i like your Channel

@LightBWK 3 жыл бұрын

I'm actually looking forward to the battery build.

@jamesquigley8628 3 жыл бұрын

X 2.

@charleswatoro8122 2 жыл бұрын

My first time here, it's a very informative video. Thank you

@richjackson860 3 жыл бұрын

Great vid on the differences between Li-on and LiFePO4!

@mfb424 3 жыл бұрын

LiFePO4 *is* li-ion. Just like the other common cathodes NMC, LMO, LCO and NCA. LFP is more stable structure which allow more impurities and cheaper manufacturing process. Now most of the base patents will be void for LFP so we can expect significant price drop in 2023. We will probably have 10.000 more manufacturers by then too so the BMS role will be crucial to detect failures well ahead of accidents in DIY projects.

@esoel Жыл бұрын

Interesting video, well explained. I saw these batteries in solar power/camping batteries and I had never heard of them before.

@jeffkowalski4936 3 жыл бұрын

I’m really interested in solar power and it’s potential. Great video!

@JohnJohnson-fm9po 3 жыл бұрын

So when's the next book coming out? I've learned a lot from your videos, keep it up.

@imanotatellin 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Good info on the difference between the two cell types.

@crumblenaut9776 3 жыл бұрын

Nice to know the differences, thanks.

@gabrielguzman9755 3 жыл бұрын

Greetings from panama. Thanks for the videos. Much better than any trade school.

@renelecours4397 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you your videos, I find them very informative. I think your books are worth taking a good look at Thanks again! Rene

@ccabando 3 жыл бұрын

Good stuff here! Glad I found your channel.

@AndrejGobec 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for all this helpful info! What project are these going into?

@nickh3064 3 жыл бұрын

Very informational video Great job!

@edku8565 3 жыл бұрын

Nice, concise and informative video. Thank you.

@egberthpaesch4504 3 жыл бұрын

Awsome vid cleared up most of my questions :D

@lostthebox4403 3 жыл бұрын

Great video, I built my bike with a 40ah LiFePo4 and do not regret the added cost. Another plus environmentally, these batteries do not use cobalt; a costly rare earth element.

@PiDsPagePrototypes 2 жыл бұрын

Cobalt is a metal, not a Rare Earth mineral

@ghz24 2 жыл бұрын

@@PiDsPagePrototypes Well the "rare earth elements" as in the lanthanide series are all metals too. And cobalt is pretty rare making up just 0.0001 percent of the crust. The phrase "rare earth mineral" is not defined chemically. One would assume it's any mineral that contains a lanthanide element. Cobalt is pretty rare it's an element found in the earth. Only in the strictest chemical sense is his use wrong.

@PiDsPagePrototypes 2 жыл бұрын

@@ghz24 nup. Last word in his comment is "element". As an element, Cobalt is a metal.

@ghz24 2 жыл бұрын

@@PiDsPagePrototypes What? ~ 95 of the 118 elements on the periodic table are metals. So 80% of all elements are metals. Cobalt is an element. Being a metal does not preclude it from being an element. Gold, silver, copper, lead, tin, iron, bismuth, sodium, potassium, calcium, mercury, tungsten, titanium, lithium, aluminum, arsenic and almost 80 other ELEMENTS are all metals. The only metals that aren't elements are alloys which are mixtures of elements.

@JerryChanD 2 жыл бұрын

My experience with LFP is very good, as my application with my boat, using in a Minn Kota ulterra trolling motor. When I owned a boat in the past, in that place near China and they can customize an LFP 36v 75AH battery with all the protection board build-in, including high discharge and charge capability. I am happy that the manufacture has done all my requirement and it just works so well until I sold my boat leaving that place, the battery still goes strong from the new owner of my boat. The battery on the boat requires safety at first no other argument. The reason is if the battery goes wrong and cause fire or even explodes it just ignited the petrol tank in the boat. A 23foot long offshore fishing boat we would bring over 300 litres of petrol full onboard, so imagine what happens if there is on fire or explode will do after all. The 36v 75ah LFP battery just weighs around 15-20kg, I haven't weighed it very clear just by feel, so it still much lighter than the traditional marine deep cycle battery set of 3 x 12v and very much shorter life-span and discharge volume even it fully charged! Oh yes, if you using the marine deep cycle battery, it even more expensive than that LFP, and every time battery is out, you need to charge them one by one compare to the LFP battery just a single plug and done! I am settling in another country, I think after all of the mess I will come back on the water, and using the LFP battery with no hesitation.

@goofykl9 3 жыл бұрын

Great information, I have wondered about the difference.

@gjn8db 3 жыл бұрын

Love this channel, tons of information

@mickeydapikey335 3 жыл бұрын

these are very exciting batteries I always learn so much here thank you. I'm trying to build a three-wheeled cargo type utility vehicle mainly dirt and gravel road and I want high torque how would I go about that and are batteries important and creating torque?

@AcrimoniousMirth 3 жыл бұрын

Looks like I need to run some calculations! My batter is getting old and I’d like to rework the bike. It’s a lovely built-in battery box of my own design though so internal space is limited. I’m considering external boosters though (with the right safety measures).

@Jessejrod 3 жыл бұрын

Great video man nice work !!

@dukemnukem5030 3 жыл бұрын

great info micah!

@boriszeltser6036 3 жыл бұрын

Nice video, easy to understand

@lanebrandon8825 3 жыл бұрын

This was very helpful thank you

@matasofutpemata 2 жыл бұрын

thanks for the info M8 !

@Stryford1 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting info on the two types of batteries. It'll be interesting to see if companies will start to adopt LiFePO4 batteries for e-bikes and e-motorcycles in the near future.

@sophyrun3379 3 жыл бұрын

Hello friend. This is Sophy from TOPA Technology Limited. We are a battery manufacturer. If you need some batteries. Pls contact me at WhatsApp/Skype 008615324942070

@ShitkidOfJamrock 7 ай бұрын

I'm going through my engineering college courses, one of my professors built his own LiFePO4 motorbike 4000 watt motor, 80 mile range, all powered by 24 60ah cells in a 72v configuration, 4.6 kilowatt hours And now im here, researching what i need to put together a lifepo4 battery pack that can double as an Ebike battery and an emergency all in one power source

@zenzen9131 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent information. Thanks for sharing it with us :)

@arinasan247 3 жыл бұрын

Great explanations. Thank you!

@mygamertag2010X 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome video, very informative!

@VandKoala 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I have learned new things!

@grumpyjohntxredneckrc6346 3 жыл бұрын

Great Explanations! Thanks

@johnaz1018 3 жыл бұрын

Interesting info on the battery

@senthilkumarn4u 3 жыл бұрын

Well explained.. Thanks mate 🙏

@sridharvivek7240 3 жыл бұрын

Nice explanation. Easy to understand. A video about batteries for solar panels .will be useful

@vxeel 3 жыл бұрын

woah i gotta try this out I look forward to the video

@Jeevan24 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the information brother...... Love from India

@taylorjnixon 3 жыл бұрын

really cool, i look forward to your next video

@jeanettemercer9586 2 жыл бұрын

so informative, thank you

@willcunningham3892 3 жыл бұрын

good explanation... thank you

@MicahStClair-sk6kx 2 жыл бұрын

Any followup video to the 32650/32700 cells you were spot welding? I have been using them to make small solar generators, but would love to see you make an ebike or something out of them? What would REALLY be cool is a Vruzend type kit for them.