Apologies if I misinterpreted your comment but, by "misogynistic turn" you mean that drag culture is actually proving itself to be misogynistic? I think I agree with that, and it's truly eye-opening to come to this conclusion.

​@danielsaeger i mean it's men putting on a 'woman suit'. What else could it be really.

@@3brenm exactly

Transgender women are women.

Exactly right. Well said.

Or spaces of any kind.

Why not? Don't you want equality - women get the same risks that male prisoners? Why should women get special protections that male prisoners do not get?

@@jonahtwhale1779what threat do women pose to you????? Yeah absolutely none.

I wouldn't agree with Christopher Hitchens about anything much, but he's spot on re identity politics as an opportunity for narcissistic self-absorption.

Did he actually say this? I'm surprised the term "identity politics" was being used back then.

@@roseg2239 It's been around for a while.

Aren’t you just regurgitating some of the toxic sludge from yesteryear? Thanks to the participants in this discussion for keeping the insults and jargon out of the discussion.

@@roseg2239 It’s in his book "Letters to a Young Contrarian."

Agreed. Our tax money

All there is mainsplaining in a dress.

Agreed

@A W still a man

Quite. When people say things like that my reply is _if being kind is so important YOU do it first._ Respect and courtesy are a two way street.

You really believe there's more compassion for men? Really.

If cis women want to make cisgender-only spaces, fine. Great. They didn't make these spaces they're trying to deny to transgender women, and most of normal and rational women don't mind sharing them with their trans sisters. It's just as much their space as it is anyone else's, which gives them the right to open it up. If bigots don't like that, they can find their own space.

They become geldings! But yes you cannot change sex!

Excellent comment 👍

Help me out here. Please explain where women are forced to do ANY of the things you describe, 'in front of a male'? Women don't even need to do any of this in front of a another woman! Last time I was in a female toilet I'm pretty sure there were cubicles.

@@nakedenby In prison. They've literally explained that in their comment.

Clearly you've not been imprisoned yourself. That's where you're falling for the propaganda. Having worked in prisons I can tell you this doesn't happen in the way its portrayed. That's why I was trying to get them to elaborate, because they wouldn't have been able to without lying. All they've done is write a list of things that shouldn't happen.

@@nakedenby In gym showers, changing rooms, women's shelters, prisons, public toilets etc, women do all these things, and unfortunately not alone anymore. Sure you can have a dump very privately in most areas, but women in general don't feel safe being alone in a room with men they don't know. That is the core issue here, women's right to safety and dignity.

@@JD-xd4sy So in other words you're admitting there is in fact privacy in cubicles but that some transphobes pretend there's some kind of imaginary 'safety' issue and it's all about transphobes' 'feelings'. Also women in general elected you as their spokesperson. Glad we got all that clear.

I'd pause and reflect on how much of what you think is 'biological reality' might actually be 'abstract'. Even if your 'abstract concepts' happen to align with your 'biological reality' that doesn't make them any less abstract. If gender identity is just a 'feeling' (your false premise) then that applies equally to cis people.

@@nakedenby How people feel, or what their "gender identity" is, has no bearing on what SEX a person is. A person's SEX is a physical reality, whether people like how they were born or not. Explain how "gender identity" differs from a person's relationship with sexist stereotypes - whenever a person claiming to be "trans" describes how they "feel like a woman" etc. all they have to offer as "proof" is listing sexist stereotypes. If the "condition" were anything but the result of internalised sexism/rejection of the "gender norms" associated with their birth sex and them believing the sexist stereotypes associated with their sex were the limits to how they were "allowed" to be, thus seeing them feeling the need to "transition" because of their gender non-conformity, then surely they could provide more substantial examples of the "womanly essence" etc. that they feel than bog standard sexist stereotypes. Explain exactly why it is that we can't expand the definition of "man", but we apparently MUST redefine "woman" to accommodate delusional sexist males. Why? "Words change, words evolve". All people claiming to be "trans women" are MALE. The definition of woman is adult human female - and you lot think we should completely uproot that objective reality based definition in order to appease male emotions (delusions) , but in turn redefining "man" is out of the question? And you claim to be fighting sexism? Males who are drawn to sexist stereotypes associated with the female sex cannot be seen as "men" anymore, because they aren't "manly" enough, so we should see and "accept" them as "women" - that is what you lot are pushing for, and it's regressive and sexist to the core, yet you will scream til you are blue in the face that it is about progress and equality, "human rights" and "feminism". What a load of cobbled together utter nonsense.

Trans activists want the rest of us to accept their delusion.

Exactly. Not only are their demands unreasonable in a way that the demands of the women rignts, racial equality and gay rights movements were not, but the tactics that they have used to achieve them have been sly, secretive, dishonest and tyrannical. They paint themselves as simply pushing the next wave of civil rights expansion, yet having seen all the other waves find success by being open and frank about their demands, and garner public support for their causes, the trans lobby have sought to subvert democracy, by keeping the public in the dark about much of their lobbying. Their conscious and deliberate stealth, their refusal to debate their agenda, and their bullying of dissenters suggests that somewhere deep inside, they've always known their demands are outrageous and not grounded in reality. Perhaps there is a shred of sanity there, after all.

As I heard someone say - “legitimately sex-segregated female facilities do not exist to solve male problems “.

They want all the benefits of being male (superior physical strength, intact dangly bits) AND the benefits of being female (protected spaces, the ability to win at sports, the ability to wave their dangly bits at women and get away with it).

agree

We must vote with our feet and with our purses. I have stopped donating blood after two separate incidents when the male nurse in a dress behaved towards me in ways that made me feel scared of him. I wrote to them to let them know why I had stopped & copied in my MP. I won’t be going for another smear test or mammogram unless it’s with a real female nurse not a man in a dress whom all the other silly captured handmaid nurses are fluffing & pandering & bleating “sheeee” at him. I don’t shop in the high street stores which let men into the ladies changing rooms. M& S, Primark, Next, Body Shop, Lush, NHS all captured by woo-woo. We need to use our voices and our votes and our spending power.

I stopped giving blood because the male nurse in a dress follows women into the ladies loos & pretends to know what having a coil changed feels like in an ”all girls together” parody which made me very scared of him.

Gross

@@hazelisaacs2201because he’s literally insane!

@@hazelisaacs2201omg! Was that in Brighton? Same happened to me. Very awkward and creepy.

How can that be when trans women can hardly have erections due to hrt?

Terfs don’t care about anyone but themselves and their perceived threats

We are allowing mentally unstable people make the policies

They are uncomfortable with who they are and fantasize they are someone else. Why should the world be forced to go along with their fantasy instead of the reality we all see? Psychological intervention to uncover why they don’t love and accept themselves seems like a viable option. Gaslighting the public to go along with their confusion is not a healthy option for them or us.

Yes, look up expert testimony of Dr. Stephen B. Levine, psychiatrist who stopped "affirming" when there were too many detransitioners. Body dissociation is a psychiatric illness.

@@jwhite5396 most halfway decent scientists dont have a clear understanding of this but yeah lets let a few mediocre bigot secretaries and truckers dictate who should be allowed be what

Perhaps you meant third gender? Gender is a spectrum and always has been. Sex too, but to a lesser degree.

@@nakedenby Stop lying, there are no other sexes than male or female. Don't lie about intersex, all intersex individuals are still either male or female.

Because they say they do. Could make the same argument about people identifying as gay or Christian or most other identities. We cannot know what it's like to be that person so you just have to take their word for it.

A better question is does either exist? Since no one can actually morph into the opposite sex, what is the point in all the surgeries and hormones, one can change their appearance without all that, those people are being duped and exploited and used as guinea pigs, the focus should be intensive psychotherapy, not pretense

​Your examples are false equivalents​@@MadameCorgi There is no biological difference between people identifying as gay (sexual orientation) - by definition they all are human males. The same as between people identifying as Christians (ideology) - they all must be humans, male or female. Surely you understand that a religious idea is not a biological identity or category, while man and woman are. Just claiming something against the obvious biology is not enough.

Not even fetishistic men?? Now you're being unreasonable. We can call it women+ spaces, where sane men are not allowed.

But then where does it end

no they don't. there is no such thing as transition. just confused people fooling around with their bodies and pretending to be something they can never.

men's prison makes a lot more sense

Most aren’t gay. They are heterosexual autogynephilesb

😂

He can call himself whatever he wants. Just stay out of women's spaces and don't demand everyone else treat him as a woman.

So you're saying 'Do what you like but you had better do it according to MY standards'. Yup, ok. Evolving language reflects evolving science. That's global consensus science, not your primary skool science. Things move on, you must try to keep up, we know the earth isn't flat now. Not sure you realise the irony of choosing Putin's Russia for your comparison - they haven't even caught up with homosexuality yet.

@@nakedenby I don't understand anything you say there. No, I say I want Russia to stop invading places, imposing tyrannical rule, killing people and trying to erase nations and cultures. Sure language evolves. I'm not sure much of that evolution is driven by science. In recent times it seems not to be. There is no such thing as "consensus science". That is not how the scientific method works. Despite what the crazy IPCC and net-zero fanatics say. I choose Putin's Russia to throw scorn at because they are in the business of genocide. Which is, you know, a bad thing. I don't know about you but where I live the prospect of Russia invading and imposing its tyrannical rule is a real possibility. Of course I would like the world help us to prevent that. Do you, personally, have a desire to live in poverty and fear under an authoritarian regime? Even millions of Russians had enough of it and left Russia last year.

​@@nakedenbyKinda like how TRAs say people are allowed to speak freely EXCEPT when it comes to their "standards" of what constitutes "hate" speech. Hypocrisy as usual. Also language is not controlled by scientists. When it changes, it happens gradually based on the general populations willingness to adopt the changes and after much debate/discussion and come to a general conscensus. We are debating these changes as we speak at present and no amount of cowardly "it just changed mkay" changes the fact the debate is being had. You deliberately try to ignore the debate because you know you have no argument and just want these linguistic and societal changes to be handed to you on a silver platter. A perfect example is "latinx" and other such nonsensical terms. Despite the left and much of the media pushing for the change in that language only around 1/3 of latinos even know it exists and only about 3% use it. This is an example of a linguistic change not being accepted. No matter how much whining a bunch of upper middleclass hypocritical white people want to be "saviors of the downtrodden" by (ironically enough) colonislzing and appropriating an entire language with their absurd nonsense.

@@nakedenbyThe ‘global consensus’ science? That’s a bold claim. And very ironic considering most European countries have started to backpedal on trans ‘healthcare’ treatment, including banning puberty blockers. Please do share your one, true global science with us, enlightened one. You must have information the rest of us do not.

@@funkyfranx Not a bold claim but a matter of established fact. No countries are 'backpedaling', and puberty blocking is but one approach. Are you just hung up on gender care for children or are you fundamentally a transphobe? Yes, I probably simply have a better overview than you because of my medical science background and because you are selecting stories which fit your warped agenda.

To be a trans woman you have to be a man. Only men can be trans women.

@@gemma3954 These men haven't 'transitioned' into anything. They are just acting out certain stereotypes. Humans can't transition between genders/sexes

@@megaloschemos9113. Exactly. It doesn’t matter what they wear or what they want to be called. They are still men. Even with surgery they are still male with XY chromosomes.

@@gemma3954 ...and you are quite certain what your chromosomes are because you've been tested?

@@nakedenby if a woman menstruates at least once in her life she can be sure she doesn’t have any y chromosome . If a man has a normal reproductive system he can be sure he is xy . Yeah , we can be pretty sure about our sex chromosomes . A chromosome more or one less , pr chrocpmose that don’t match the external genitalia brings loads of signs during adolescence . Anyway intersex conditions have nothing to do with men pretending to be women .

We have some people who don't know what a man is. Politicians seem to struggle to know what a woman is.

Right! Is that an advert for his "product?"

You wouldn't find anything unexpected in my bagging area! Happily post op and rid.

I hardly think 262,000 people in England and Wales alone, is 'tiny'. Not sure I'm reading you correctly but it seems you're advocating conversion therapy? I hope you're not. Please don't pretend you're all for freedom when you actually want to set conditions which have no evidence base.

Totally agree. I don't understand why a Gender Recognition Certificate gives anyone the right to change their legal sex. They cry the two are different but are happy to appropriate sex when it suits them. Self ID is clearly an issue. TRAs get upset when you raise the issue of predatory men abusing self ID to prey on vulnerable women but that's exactly what they support and they have to accept the consequences of that. Their definition of trans means that it includes those that are abusing the movement to facilitate predatory behaviour. Which affects them negatively at the end of the day. Counterproductive.

Most trans people are perfectly reasonable, understand the importance of sage spaces for women and understand the reality of their biology. The people who are pushing all this are the woke apologists desperate to be seen as allies. It’s similar to racism in America - it mostly comes from middle-class white students.

It’s simple MENS. WOMEN TRANS. ITS NOT ROCKET SIENCE. NOT IN WOMENS SAFE SPACES ANYWHERE.

It’s still just another man telling women what we should & shouldn’t fear and how our lives must be controlled by men to keep other men happy. A man with long hair is just a man. Nothing changes his manhood if he decides to wear lipstick & a frock. There are already protective VP wings in male prisons to house designated Vulnerable Prisoners. If a fox is picked on by other foxes, the solution is not to put on a feather boa & house him with the hens. Nobody should be allowed to identify as something they’re not, otherwise all the convicts could just identify as innocent & walk free?!

The conflict of rights is invented by transphobes.

Agreed! It’s very refreshing!

doesn't it depend who they're with and against. The Allies weren't all French but they drove the Germans out of France. I'm not a woman but I'd happily be an ally against FGM or sex trafficking.

Why so hateful?

@@Romana6794 why don’t you want to tell the TRUTH???

@@Romana6794 it’s just plainly true. Nothing hateful about it

@@Romana6794The word “sir” is not hateful

Curious why? Everything she said is the same as she's been saying for decades. What's different here?

Meow

@@PepsiMagt 😄😄😄

More like understanding that earth, water, air and fire are not the foundational constituents of all meterial being.

Boy but you are confused.

gender is a social construct that designates roles according to your recorded sex. SEX is NOT a social construct. No one has ever or will ever be able to change sex. I'm a gender atheist. Which means even though I'm a woman, I was still able to fix my own cars.

Lol. Gender = sex stereotypes. It's made up patriarchal nonsense. Humans can't change sex and their sex doesn't change by plastic surgery. End of story.

Gender is imaginary. Sex is real

safety of women and children, over how men feel. ALWAYS

Human rights is an extremely broad spectrum, especially when you're lumping sex offenders in that

But we 'must' show compassion 🙄.

@@angelapetrie2418 is that how laws are made, compassion, FFS

That's been suggested in this video as the obvious answer to the problem of having men in women's prisons, and to bullying in men's prisons.

Yes. Put trans women - who are biological men - into the mens prison estate - segregated for their safety - as are male paedophiles.

Yes. And it probably shouldn't just be for trans-identifying men either, because gay/effeminate, small and young men are at particular risk of harm in men's prisons too. As a journalist said today, while they'd all be safer in women's prisons, women should not be used as a shield against male violence. They're all men, whether they acknowledge it or not, and so men's prisons are the places for them.

If you mean trans-identified males, then yes, they should have a separate wing if they’re vulnerable. “Transmen” however is what trans-identified females call themselves (girls who want to be men), and they almost never want to be incarcerated with actual men, that I’m aware of. Funny that.

Trans men usually also go into women's prison. It's always women that are comprised

Women only spaces: just women Women+ spaces: women + fetishistic/mentally unstable men (- sane men) gay people as a "third sex" pretty reasonable

She really did sound confused.

Respect for others is a great start. No reason to belittle anyone who is not 100% straight.

The bar is low for men, isn't it?