Lithium ion plane battery

Рет қаралды 913,286

6 жыл бұрын

Lithium ion cells are becoming more capable of delivering high power outputs for use in smaller applications such as this plane. Lithium ion cells are already used in land based applications, such as cars and bikes. However, the energy density (per mass) of the cell is far more essential for air based applications. The technology is still not quite there to be used in rotary aircraft (helicopters and drones) due to their high power consumption, but I'm sure it'll be possible soon!!
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Пікірлер: 1 000

@Flashbackjacko 6 жыл бұрын

It is amazing that the battery and magnet technology has come so far that flights are so long they are boring.

@davidball1924 6 жыл бұрын

I once built an ultralight model with a 800mah lipo and a tiny motor. The flight lasted over an hour and the fun became the guessing game of when the battery will die

@wieseldiesel4828 5 жыл бұрын

@Zsavage1 so true

@rjp985 5 жыл бұрын

If it's that boring,securing the plane down to something and letting it run down hands free is an option.

@gece8783 5 жыл бұрын

@Zsavage1 True

@iteerrex8166 5 жыл бұрын

Very true, but I think what made it tedious was that he wasn't playing. He was just making simple figure eights over and over and over.. which became very monotonous. If was with a bunch of friends playing games or what ever, an hour would have flown by in 10 mins flat lol

@Calthecool 4 жыл бұрын

If I was going to fly for 30+ minutes, I would bring a lawn chair.

@erikig 4 жыл бұрын

And a drink, with something to listen to...

@kaicheng6471 4 жыл бұрын

Plus some popcorn

@SankoshSaha_01 4 жыл бұрын

Plus some newspaper to read

@NICEFINENEWROBOT 4 жыл бұрын

For a test it would be enough to give it a line, a peg and a trim to merrily go round, I suppose (being absolute layman).

@rahultej2248 3 жыл бұрын

Bring everything

@abhishekgourav6144 5 жыл бұрын

I thought he was about to say spot welders are illegal in England...

@tipwilkin 4 жыл бұрын

OI U GOT A LOICENCE FER THAT WELDER

@elekrazy433 4 жыл бұрын

he doesn't know they are

@thombaz 4 жыл бұрын

Hey boy, r u up fo doing some SW, the first two is fo free boy, don't tell yo mama.

@Philipp-oh4vq 4 жыл бұрын

Wendler?! Egal xD for all which dont understand this joke, the wendler is a german promi and a meme because the Made a Song named "egal" and egal means it doesnt matters... and this is a Meme

@portland4660 4 жыл бұрын

@@Philipp-oh4vq what?

@Zt3v3 4 жыл бұрын

Tom, it would be interesting to revisit this in 2020. I would like to see you measure the actual flight time of both to their limits.

@YouTookTheRedPill 3 жыл бұрын

I agree, especially with 20700 or 21700 batteries. Samsung 30t 21700 batteries can supply 35 continuous amps at 3000mah

@leventgencer 2 жыл бұрын

@@YouTookTheRedPill How can it produce 35 continuous amps at 3 amp hours?

@yonseimatt 2 жыл бұрын

Not for three hours. A battery rated at 3ah with a 1c discharge rate can supply 3 amps for 1 hour. With a 10c discharge rate, it can supply 30amps for a tenth of an hour, or 6 minutes.

@OllyFPV Жыл бұрын

Don't know if your are still interested but lithium ion has now become the norm for long range fpv flights. My plane can travell around 100km on one homemade pack its incredible

@ididnotkilljfk861 6 жыл бұрын

realise it might be boring but you really need to verify the "theoretical" time for the LI-ION pack

@yametekudasaisensei539 5 жыл бұрын

If someone jumps out of the window waving their arms, theoretical you will fly, trust me like this video xD

@mrmiketopping 5 жыл бұрын

You could always rerun the test but not actually fly ... just run it on the bench.

@przemos7816 5 жыл бұрын

sony vtc6, google it

@eniklisnihm4565 5 жыл бұрын

Ya he could just bench test it, to verify

@amallee3361 5 жыл бұрын

Bench tests draw more power than actually flying the plane. So not quite the same.

@chungdha 3 жыл бұрын

Wonder if there some kind of RC plane distance record could try and break.

@syntaxandRender 3 жыл бұрын

someone jst did 100 miles🤣

@safetyinstructor 3 жыл бұрын

@RC Testflight built a solar plane which can fly all day. Going to be difficult to beat that.

@therealpanse 3 жыл бұрын

@@safetyinstructor how about night? 🤔

@safetyinstructor 3 жыл бұрын

@@therealpanse Daniel used a normal lipo so it's probably going to last only a few hours at night but already being able to fly all day is going to defeat a simple li-ion cell like in this build. You could try to combine li-ion cells and solar panels to basically have a suborbital pseudo satellite.

@b4tty 2 жыл бұрын

@@safetyinstructor (sorry for replying to an old thread) but a good old combustion engine would probably be best for this task! Little 12cc nitro engine and a massive 2 litre fuel tank, if my 1am quick maths aren’t broken, it should be good for about 2000 miles 😅

@TheUrk-tv5el 5 жыл бұрын

Mount the plane. You can let it run and if it's a hot day, you've got a fan!

@thecaptainnoodles 4 жыл бұрын

Ronny Ktuziak Bit hes white! He doesnt absorb heat!! Joking

@NeoIsrafil 4 жыл бұрын

If the plane isnt moving itll eat more amps than it would while moving and could burn up the motors or overdraw the batteries.

@edism 3 жыл бұрын

@@thecaptainnoodles What a shitty joke.

@edism 3 жыл бұрын

@@NeoIsrafil No. It will draw more current that's it.

@88njtrigg88 3 жыл бұрын

@@thecaptainnoodles Pathetic joke..

5 жыл бұрын

Lithium ion and a little supercapacitor for turbo mode stuff.

@popinmo 3 жыл бұрын

super caps are not worth it i think it would be fun to mess around with maybe fore like a drag car but not for anything else really better to just keep extra range unless your building a race plane

@matthewwilcox2055 3 жыл бұрын

@@popinmo so what about a lithium ion powered plane with some super capacitors for short boost in performance, then just charge them right back up during normal flight

@popinmo 3 жыл бұрын

@@matthewwilcox2055 yea you can but that may be fun but it I doubt other cons make it not worth it but I mean I guess I think it would be more fun for a car and more practical for a car as then it can have huge huge huge speed boost and not.damage the battery

@polygorg 2 жыл бұрын

WEP Caps

@yourmomlmao9638 2 жыл бұрын

or a booster plane module, that falls off when they're spent

@flyonbyya 4 жыл бұрын

I think the spec sheet for Li-On cells shows a 2.7v discharge minimum

@MaxC_1 2 жыл бұрын

generally you can discharge Li-ion to 2.5V without really damaging them (and even lower) but 2.8V ish is recommended for longer life and the ideal range of voltage for a Li-Ion is around 3(low) -4V (max)

@drumbum7999 6 жыл бұрын

I never knew Tom was a member of the So Cal Surf Club

@dfgdfg_ 5 жыл бұрын

The test on the shirt was distracting from the video.

@tristunalekzander5608 4 жыл бұрын

I never noticed his attire. It just looked like a generic sweatshirt to me.

@sepg5084 3 жыл бұрын

@dillon bob no u

@GavinRemme 6 жыл бұрын

I've always wondered about this, thanks for the video!

@whatelseison8970 6 жыл бұрын

One thing that sprung to mind as you were talking about the difference in internal resistance between the packs is that the internal resistance of a cell is no different than any other resistance; it dissipates power proportional to the square of the current, so the higher the drain, the better the li-po should perform relative to the 18650s. Since the draw was quite low in this test this may not be a significant factor, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

@dougingraham5807 5 жыл бұрын

Hi Tom. I enjoy your channel. I experimented with long duration flight around 1995. I used a small sailplane with a 1.5 meter span, a 6 cell 800 mah NiCd pack and was able to fly for almost 90 minutes. The energy stored was 8.6 watt hours and my average draw was about 4 watts to sustain level flight. Prop was a Robbe 6x3.5 folder and motor was a Graupner Speed 400. I don't remember which wind I used. Average current was about half an amp. I had to do this just before sunset when thermal activity was nonexistent and no wind. I found that trying to climb more than the minimum required to stay airborne shortened flight duration and thermals are bad because there is a lot more down air than up air. Even a little down air increases your average watts. Lipo batteries of even the poorest quality would give around four times the duration. I would have had to worry about the transmitter batteries and bladder control issues with 6 hour duration flights not to mention being bored out of my mind.

@yaimem 2 ай бұрын

how were u able to fly for 90 mins with just a 800mah pack at 7.2v max? makes no sense... did u mean 8000mah?

@dougingraham5807 2 ай бұрын

@yaimem The answer is in the previous post. Still air and slow speeds with power level set to barely climb when flying straight and level. Turns would give slight loss of altitude. An 800mah 7.2V NiCd holds 5.76 watt hours. Not sure where the 8.6 wh came from in the previous post. A 4 watt draw would last 1.44 hours or about 86 minutes.

@Andy-df5fj 5 жыл бұрын

You can take the batteries down to 3 volts/cell without degredation.

@rasmysamy2145 4 жыл бұрын

In theory you could even get them down to 0v and they should wake up as long as you baby them on the way back up

@Hyrum_Graff 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, but the plane should be on the ground with nothing running by then. 3.3 let's you land.

@fridonina 5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the extensive test. I use li Ion cells for my model cars. Work like a charm !

@Scootertuner420 4 жыл бұрын

Boy make a spot welder from super capacitor :D

@4Borings 5 жыл бұрын

Great informative video! Why not bench-test both battery systems so you can leisurely watch youtube videos during the testing :>)

@Jossnaz 5 жыл бұрын

well it doesnt really work easily. How to verify that the motor has enough thrust always? not as easy as it sounds

@MrGunzedreng 6 жыл бұрын

Hehehe I laughed my ass of when you said "Incredibly Boring" cause it's so so True 😂 Nice video

@IDoNotLikeHandlesOnYT 3 жыл бұрын

Lithium-ion = lithium-polymer. The chemistry is one and the same. "Lithium-polymer" is just short for 'lithium-ion in a polymer package', referring to the plastic ("polymer") soft pouch or rigid box that forms the outside of the cell, as can be seen on nearly all rectangular batteries of this chemistry. (Therefore, "lithium-polymer" is nearly synonymous with "prismatic lithium-ion cell". I do have one rectangular cell (from an old smartphone) that has a metal shell, but it's very much the exception.) It's actually common to make 18650s by first making really thin rectangular cells (in plastic pouches, therefore "lithium-polymer"), rolling them up into cylinders, and putting those rolled-up plastic-cased cells into metal outer shells. Therefore, while individual cells' specs may vary (like the LG ones in the video), the distinction between two categories of "lithium-ion" and "lithium-polymer" is meaningless.

@Psilomuscimol Ай бұрын

Why do lipo seem to provide more peak output?

@Psilomuscimol Ай бұрын

I'm actually wondering

@leonmurray7832 6 жыл бұрын

Great informative video Tom, thanks! You point out the li-ion weight/energy ratio is superior but the current draw is the systems drawback. How about adding a capacitor to increase available voltage/amperage for short bursts of acceleration with the li-ion? Or even using an extra cell and dropping the volts to increase amps?

@William_Asston 5 жыл бұрын

"Energy density per mass" Energy ----------------- Mass/Mass Sorry i just had to point that out :)

@XYZPlayers 4 жыл бұрын

Energy density could also be of volume hence his specification that its per mass

@sepg5084 3 жыл бұрын

@@XYZPlayers correct. The wording should have been Energy Density By Mass but that would just be pedantic when the statement was perfectly understandable already.

@bepowerification 6 жыл бұрын

one motor, one ESC, no board, cheap homemade 'frame' - over 30 minutes flight time. that's why I love RC planes way more than quads. ok, you need servos but they're just so cheap.

@ERPP8 5 жыл бұрын

The one thing I love about quads is their resilience. I have a cheap storebought quad that is indestructible. A fall from terminal velocity barely damages it. And the differential thrust deals with any misalignment in weight or rotor condition(i.e. beat to hell). I still would love a RC plane, but I can't afford one right now.

@mortache 5 жыл бұрын

@@ERPP8 if you have the patience its quite cheap to make rc planes. Sure they dont look like scale models, but they fly and its fun

@karoma7898 5 жыл бұрын

@@ERPP8 I second this... but you do need twice as many props when you crash (on average).I built a quad copter two years ago, the frame is carbon fiber 4mm, I literally plowed the ground with it , bent 1 prop, I bent it back to shape, don't do that, kids( it shattered mid flight and slashed my knee when it fell), I have pictures with it swinging some long grass is caught

@ERPP8 5 жыл бұрын

@@mortache you'll be happy to know that that's what I did. I made one out of insulation foam and fiberglass. It's a chunky boi with a 3ft wingspan. Not too dissimilar so the one on this video. I just need to make for props for it(I mold them off an existing prop with fiberglass).

@mortache 5 жыл бұрын

@@ERPP8 i'll just stick with using readymade props. Good props are the most important part of the aircraft. Even cheaper ones will do

@kevinlalik17 5 жыл бұрын

Thank you soo much I some how watched the night before I had a test from technology

@MrHristoB 3 жыл бұрын

Just for the craic of it, I alo made a 2S2P pack out of 18650's, tested it on my 9inch quad, it flies for about 10 min straight... Also converted all my drills to Li-Ion with the appropriate BMS boards. Just soldering these is a bit tricky. Nice one Tom!!

@bobjohnson3175 6 жыл бұрын

THAT is a pretty sweet hoody. so important to have a sweet hoody

@austinbartose6527 6 жыл бұрын

Lol hollister

@Barrybados 6 жыл бұрын

18650 can run down to 3.2 volts and recover fine and if you ever want some spot welding done give me a shout .

@MCsCreations 6 жыл бұрын

Barrybados©. Actually, it can run down to 2.5v. That's the cut off of most BMSs (like the one on notebook batteries).

@MsSomeonenew 6 жыл бұрын

For fucks sake they are not all the same thing, 18650 just means what the damn size is. You need to look up your specific battery technical info before you blow some shit up.

@MCsCreations 6 жыл бұрын

MsSomeonenew Did you ever done that? Try it. Never saw one that didn't said 2~2.5v as minimum.

@raypilot9958 6 жыл бұрын

I experimented with two red Li-ion in the stranded sires tow get 7.4 volts, the plane had a 20 Amp ESC running a E Max 7 to 9 volt motor with a 6 by 4 prop, it seemed heavy as the model had a tough time gaining altitude, but it was fine in terms of flight, thank you for cracking all the math and enduring the boring 40 min flights to present this video, I will appreciate the next time I decide to use a Lithium Ion batter in one of my planes

@LongPeter Жыл бұрын

2022 Tom would probably have programmed an autopilot to run the test for him.

@joshmutuku3604 4 жыл бұрын

I'd love to see this test done again with an automatic voltage regulator.

@edism 3 жыл бұрын

What is that?

@eitanseitchik3020 3 жыл бұрын

@@edism it’s a automatic voltage regulator.

@zeemanjr 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Tom, This stuff is cool but I would love to see more rc heli flying like the good old days providing you still have your TRex 700E. Pete.

@arfyness 5 жыл бұрын

I would LOVE to see you do a video on constructing a simple spot welder using a capacitor bank. Solid core copper wire makes good electrodes for that.

@jamesneylon7335 3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant video, I use both types of cells with work(cabinet maker) and RC (race cars) Really enjoyed the comparison.

@SolarSteve 6 жыл бұрын

The 18650 can be discharged down to 3.2v. You literally only used half its capacity! The lipo cell was coming to the end of its capacity based on its voltage...

@paulshuttleworth7793 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah...he said that in the video

@SolarSteve 6 жыл бұрын

Paul Shuttleworth when?

@gadgetmerc 6 жыл бұрын

he said that the hg2 cells can safely go down to 2v/cell. which he should have know about before even purchasing the batteries.

@SolarSteve 6 жыл бұрын

Except that they can't safely go down to 2v per cell. 3.2v is the lowest voltage an 18650 cell of this chemistry should be discharged to. There is really no usable capacity below that voltage. The LiPos are similar, but each has a different discharge curve.

@gadgetmerc 6 жыл бұрын

The first 5 sites that i checked shows the LG 18650HG2 discharge voltage to be 2.5v/cell. The Sanyo 18650GA that I have been using also spec'ed at 2.5v/cell.

@solarfunction1847 6 жыл бұрын

Tom, you could add Super Capacitors with the Lithium Ion to boost the current output if that is a problem.

@wi_zeus6798 6 жыл бұрын

Solar Function what about the massive increase in volume?

@gelisob 6 жыл бұрын

i'm pretty sure that all them squirrel passengers inside the big body box would not mind. Lessening the spikes on those cells would improve lifetime and so on, if can be done cheaply, regarding weight. Those supercaps were kinda low voltage, need quite many i think..

@joshuazalovcik186 6 жыл бұрын

Solar Function the ir know as internal resistance is the problem it is how much the battery resists the the output and it steadily does that as the more you drain a battery and as a ion it's alot easier to get a higher ir

@richierich3135 4 жыл бұрын

Bro, you have indirectly solved all the doubts about these which usally can't ask directly ,....thanks one again for such detail explaination.

@markitripulis 4 жыл бұрын

It would be awesome to retest this new high amperage 21700 batteries. Samsung 30T for example have high capacity and can handle "high" current so they will have a lot more flight time per mAh than those LG HG2. I have tested this vaping and the difference is HUGE.

@isaiahhiggins 4 жыл бұрын

Li-po cutoff at 3.7? I've always heard 3.3.

@gizmoguyar 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, generally 4.1V to 3.3V is considered the conservative. 4.2 to 3.0 is generally the "Nominal" voltage range for lithium polymer.

@papablopapapablo8123 5 жыл бұрын

You have to add weight to the lighter battery in order to compare in equal conditions their capacity. Unless you are testing only time in flight. Nice channel, congrats.

@Scootertuner420 5 жыл бұрын

I wanted just to know the difference between the capacity, he could just read the manufactures informations

@iforce2d 4 жыл бұрын

But their difference in weight is part of their important characteristic for a plane... it shouldn't be factored out.

@ItsAlleged 6 жыл бұрын

1:01 Right as you say "powered flight" a fly goes by (using powered flight)... love it

@sato4kaiba 3 жыл бұрын

There is also one more thing you need to consider. The charging board for the Lipo also controls the discharge rate of the battery. So even if the flight electronics asked for more power, the board will limit it. This is needed to keep the battery from what I call thermal decay aka an over drawn battery ready to explode due to heat.

@efahrenholz Жыл бұрын

Lithium Polymer batteries used in hobby RC do *not* have a protection circuit like on Lithium Ion cells used in laptops. Not all Lithium Ion cells are protected, either. That's what makes RC use possible, while also dangerous. The battery will put out as much power as physically possible--even to the point of bursting into flames due to the ESR heating up the pack. Most RC electronics have motor speed controllers with a built-in Battery Eliminator Circuit (BEC) that limits max amperage draw and shuts off the system when it reaches a safe low voltage. The BEC is for sending 5v to servos, receivers, and flight logic boards. All of these devices work together to prevent a battery from bursting to flames.

@kermets 6 жыл бұрын

Do the test again to to prove the point at least down to 2.8 volts per cell which should be safer for those ion cells

@Landrew0 6 жыл бұрын

"I could continue to investigate the unanswered questions, but I'd find it too boring." *Massive fail in my opinion.*

@mmnissanzroadster9 6 жыл бұрын

Right? I was thinking "You've gotta be kidding me I came here to see you reach an hour and now you're too 'bored' to go for an hour?"

@tedhancock68 3 жыл бұрын

I understand laziness. It’s my natural state. But if I’m trying to prove somebody wrong or demonstrate something that almost nobody else knows, I will die of exposure/exhaustion before I quit.

@Beavereaver 4 жыл бұрын

The fusion power core will solve all that when it comes out.

@stelic9515 3 жыл бұрын

Good luck installing a fusion reactor on an rc plane. Perhaps you need to wait 1000 years for the relese date.😂😂

@Beavereaver 3 жыл бұрын

@@stelic9515 micro fusion reactors 😂

@hellcat1988 6 жыл бұрын

I have an old 6v cordless drill that I took the old NiMH batteries out of and replaced with two lithium cells. I wired them with a 3 pole switch so I could have them in parallel to charge and in series to power the two stage trigger in use. It works well, as when I store it I can have the two cells linked together to balance them automatically even when they're not on the charger. It's probably shortening the life of the cells, but they weren't the best to begin with. It was just a proof of concept that's worked out better than expected and so I use it.

@russ8001 4 жыл бұрын

So I appreciate the results of this test but am confused. Could you explain more specifically why you would choose the lithium polymer battery for aerobatics or as you say- fast passes, etc? Wouldn't the lithium ion battery be better in all respects? Is the maximum energy consumption per unit time limited more for the lithium ion battery? If not, I don't see why the lithium ion wouldn't be a better choice for RC airplanes. One thing that does come to mind, though, is that I think that lithium polymer are far more resistant to damage from mechanical shock. Thanks for the video and I look forward to your response.

@radry100 6 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't 8V be too low to drive the motor or is there a voltage regulator in the plane?

@mike_oe 6 жыл бұрын

There is a ESC in the plane, and the pilot will increase throttle as voltage drops. If the plane has a flight controller with an airspeed sensor, it will do that automatically.

@TomStantonEngineering 6 жыл бұрын

8V should still drive the motor, but there would definitely be a huge loss in performance. On this setup I would need to increase the throttle throughout the flight to stay in the air. For example, if I were using half throttle at the beginning of the flight, I would most probably be using near full throttle by the end (for the same thrust output)... I think!

@kylerpowney9771 6 жыл бұрын

It wouldn't necessarily decrees performance it would decrease the power and torque and when I say power I mean the driving capabilitys of the battery's an example of this is if you put a Nimh battery into an rc car that has been using a lipo it will decrease the speed because the mother will not have enough torque and too much resistance to frictions

@kylerpowney9771 6 жыл бұрын

Motor*

@alexislechevalier1022 6 жыл бұрын

Back in the days, we usually used geared motors and slower rotating props on electric planes due to the poor energy storage of cadmium cells. Maybe it's a way to use the wider voltage range of the Li-ion without too much performance loss. My 2 cents.

@abedin1 5 жыл бұрын

both are lithium ion chemistry, one is called polymer because its packed in a polymer pouch instead metal cylinder.

@peterzingler6221 4 жыл бұрын

Nope that's wrong the lipo is using a polymer as the layer separation. It is packed in aluminum which is certainly not a polymer

@adrienouilou2999 4 жыл бұрын

I made the same observation with my electric bike. I first bought a li ion because it has more capacity but I always had cut off problems. I then bought a li po with a lower capacity but it was much better. Nice video

@tedhancock68 3 жыл бұрын

I’ve had some success from hybrids. You run a strong lipo in parallel with your LiIon pack. You get most of the punch of a lipo, and the capacity of 18650. The down side is you can’t take the pack below 3v or so for long periods of time.

@grzesiek1x 3 жыл бұрын

what i have recently noticed is sometimes there is a "security" circuit in the batteries which limits the current so this is why sometimes the tests are not very precise when you compare different batteries etc. because you look at the volatage and capasity and you think hmm it should be the same but it is not but not because of the battery itself...

@gadgetmerc 6 жыл бұрын

You should have known the battery specs before purchasing and definitely should have know their specs before direct soldering them. I digress as I have done worse. The main point I wanted to make is that you can get pre-made packs for very reasonable pricing. I got a 7.0AH 3s pack with an xt60 and balance plug for under $50. Much safer and nearly the same price as making it yourself. I highly recommend getting a 2s 18650ga pack for your fatshark goggles. I'm getting over 4 hours with a True-D v3 module in my dominator 3s with DVR recording.

@Ehsan_15 6 жыл бұрын

Where have you gotten those packs for such affordable price?

@gadgetmerc 6 жыл бұрын

I got mine from gettitanpower.com

@oleost 6 жыл бұрын

Get yourself an autopilot system and just put it in GPS hold. INAV can do this for you for less than 60USD

@johngoldsmith4844 6 жыл бұрын

Don't know about your country but this would be illegal in UK. Have to monitor the flight and control as necessary to avoid manned aircraft. Flying FPV without a 'spotter' with you is illegal too, for the same reason.

@difflocktwo 6 жыл бұрын

John Goldsmith Everything is illegal in the UK. It is simply assumed.

@derekking8104 6 жыл бұрын

oleost

@TravisHailston650 6 жыл бұрын

What would the flight power be like down under 10 volts? Still usable on your current engine setup?

@TriunfoGim Жыл бұрын

Useful information about Li-ion and LiPo. Thank you Tom.

@JaydenLeeSG 6 жыл бұрын

Could you possibly do the test by just putting the plane on a stand and just throttle up? Also, on a side note. I use 18650 batteries for my vape and I usually run them down to 2.8 before charging them up. Once I even ran it down to 2.4 and it charged up fine

@CanalVibeFit 6 жыл бұрын

Specifically using the LG HG2 according to the manufacturer it supports up to 2.0V without losing its useful life

@JulianGoesPro 6 жыл бұрын

Redo the test for science! :D

@funkygrib1 6 жыл бұрын

Usual high standard, good work. Note, us older guys find long power tests less boring ? with APM and Failsafe set to Batt,Voltage Yes I have been supprised once or twice to hear my plane above me ! but not bored ;-)

@TheJohanJonker 6 жыл бұрын

Good video!! Well worth the watch

@justinfielding 6 жыл бұрын

I like the aircraft, do you have a video with details of it?

@przemos7816 6 жыл бұрын

Google 'Spectre Twin Boom' by Andrew Newton

@kadmow 6 жыл бұрын

Yes flying in circles doing an endurance test is boring... "Lithium Polymer" Batteries are still one form of Li-Ion cell. Merely a different form factor (pouch vs cylindrical cell) - polymer in the [common] name is really a misnomer) Any Li-Ion battery cell can use any type of Lithium chemistry. (Li-Co, Li-Mn, Li-Fe(PO4), Li-Ni-Mn-Co etc etc...without knowing which chemistry is used in example cells limits choice, not all pouch cells are equal, just as not all 18650 cells are either. Interesting demo, So use of these cylindrical cells may be more scale-able than pouch cells (if the power draw and hence thermal changes can be limited/controlled through use of parallel circuits, or active controls). Cell chemistry is always changing and being optimised.

@mr.bitsbyte4664 3 жыл бұрын

Li-Po is Lithium Ion. It's technically called Lithium Ion polymer. The difference is basically that polymer is flexible, Li-ion is not, and they have some different aging qualities. But Li-Po and Li-Ion can both be manufacturered to be high energy density or high amperage capacity or in same cases both. Your Li-Po batteries here are designed for high amp draw, where the Li-ion you used here are designed for capacity.

@comedyshane123 6 жыл бұрын

i like what you did but i do want you to do a test of both until the plane falls to the ground

@hectorcilona965 5 жыл бұрын

Subtitule en español x favor, gracias.

@ARF_average 4 жыл бұрын

@hobbyhyper 5 жыл бұрын

Please verify max flight time and it would be less boring if you posted onboard footage!

@TheMinecraftSandbox 5 жыл бұрын

When you weighed to batteries, were they both charged to around the same level?

@SamMaghsoodloo 6 жыл бұрын

You should use an osd that measures mah, so that you can use that to time your flights not the voltage.

@quinn10ification 5 жыл бұрын

This is unsatisfyingly inconclusive. How about at least running the model on the bench drawing the same amps -- you must have a good sense of what that model draws in cruise.

@Crlarl 6 жыл бұрын

Lithium-Polymer (LIP not actual Lithium polymer) is Lithium-Ion.

@EthanEves 5 жыл бұрын

I'm kinda late to comment, but there's instructions out there to make a small scale spot welder using parts from disposable film cameras that have flashes. if you go to a shop that developes film, they'll often just give you the old empty (already processed) cameras for free. it uses the capacitor and the battery charging circuit from the flash.

@Teararec 3 жыл бұрын

Lithium polymer batteries are lithium ion ( LIPO ) the P stands for the polymer the pouch that is used. Lithium ion cells are of the same thing except with a metal casing that's why the P is removed there is no polymer pouch. The capacities are different because of the chemistry that is used you can either have high discharge With low capacity or Lower discharge with higher capacity. There essentially the same cell bit different Manufacturing methods and with Slightly different chemistry For higher discharge or higher Capacity.

@preston121068 6 жыл бұрын

You should look into Graphine batteries. 5x the runtime of a Lith, 1/4 the weight, minutes to fully charge. I imagine you may need quite a bankroll to get one, but if you want hardcore, there is your fix. Pretty sure they are currently only available for military use, but there is ALWAYS a way...

@matrixate 6 жыл бұрын

You mean GraphENE not GraphINE right?

@audioclownmusic1271 6 жыл бұрын

they are easy to make ,check robert murray smiths channel ,,teaching us all new battery tech that you can make at home...

@ArionRaine 6 жыл бұрын

Hey....Lithium polymer cells ARE Lithium Ion...................

@PavelAmazing 6 жыл бұрын

subscribed :) Thank you!

@ducttaperulestheworl 4 жыл бұрын

Man the HE2 is a classic but with 18650 everyone started using Samsung 30Q as a balance standard or high drain vape class Sony VTC6 or crazy high capacity Sanyo GA cells for low amps. Glad you tested the difference but I do hope one day you'll just run a joyride with these proper new cells

@x9x9x9x9x9 6 жыл бұрын

PLEASE before doing anything else with 18650 build a tab welder. That is so dangerous. I have had 2 batteries vent on be from soldering and one was a thionyl chloride battery...

@jackedwards8970 6 жыл бұрын

I have soldered many Li-ion 18650 cells, never had a problem. I use an 80W iron, clean the cells ends thoroughly and splash solder on to the surface the iron touches the sell but briefly. The wire (as in video) just pressed quickly and positvely onto the end. The all metal casings mean that heat is dissipated very quickly. If you use a typical iron that is ok for sircuits boards etc maybe 18W like my Antex then you'll be there all day trying get the cell hot enough. Be careful handling the iron on the +ve terminal the =ve casing is VERY close. Finally if you are still concerned, don't do it. You can order batteries from retailers who will tab them in any mode you require.

@andrewerickson7962 6 жыл бұрын

i put mine in the freezer for a few before soldering

@RichBeaden 6 жыл бұрын

What BS, Just do a search for DIY power wall, As long as you are careful, you are fine.

@MKhurramAziz 6 жыл бұрын

I've soldered maybe over a thousand 18650 cells over the past 3 years, never have I ever faced a problem with it.

@felixjanke2688 6 жыл бұрын

The 2200mAh 18650 types can be soldered without problems, when you work quick. The 3500mAh 10A Samsung types seem to be more delicate, I noticed a loss of capacity after soldering. I recommend to use cold spray to cool down the cells before and after soldering. It's quite cheap and helps to prevent danger or even slight damage to the cells.

@agniuszoro 6 жыл бұрын

All lithiums are lithium ion and li-po is lithiums ion

@lurkingcorsa10 6 жыл бұрын

ion 'n polyster

@andrewerickson7962 6 жыл бұрын

the 18650 cell and our hobby type lipo batteries are in fact chemically different dont be a troll man

@agniuszoro 6 жыл бұрын

Lots of lithium-ion cells are different chemicaly but they all share one common thing - lithium, thats why they all are called lithium ion. LiPO is lithium ion polimer cell and electrolyte is different but it is lithium ion. Go do some reading, wiki is on hand

@TheRadiastral 6 жыл бұрын

agnius, you're right and wrong, at the same time. Because there are chemistries like LiFePO4, which operate on WAY lower voltages, than other lithium chemistries. Yet you try put them in the same bag.

@dainazinas 6 жыл бұрын

Aye, and you too are a Lithiuanian ;]]]

@rcbinchicken 6 жыл бұрын

Very informative and very enjoyable! Any chance you could do a short vid on the little orange endurance flyer you made for this test? I'd have liked to see more of it :D What were its specs? (motor, prop, AUW etc.)

@goku445 3 жыл бұрын

He said it was too boring! :/

@EB-wl3iy 3 жыл бұрын

Hi, thanks foor the video. I would like to better understand the different behavior between Lipo and LiIon, do you have any reference or article where they compare the two? Maybe an academic paper comparing the two discharge curves?

@ceptimus 6 жыл бұрын

Don't believe the claims of 3Ah 18650's. Test them yourself with a dummy load and multimeter(s). Most are much less capacity than the claimed figure - especially the cheap ones. Lithium Polymer batteries are the same technology in a lighter container (plastic bag instead of metal can) so would normally be lighter than Li-Ion providing they both have the same C rating. Normally our model plane batteries have higher C ratings so that we can draw high maximum currents. Higher C rating cells are heavier. Buy the LiPo cells with the lowest C rating you can find; measure the actual capacity of them and the 18650's rather than believe the marketing hype; you'll most likely find that the LiPo's are actually lighter than the same (actual measured capacity) Li-Ions.

@oliverwatson1567 6 жыл бұрын

The lipo batteries used in phones and power banks have a good power density and low C rating, but they are harder to source than 18650s

@lazarus2691 6 жыл бұрын

The specific 18650's he used in this video, the LG HG2, are legit. I've seen them tested to well over 2900mah, getting pretty close to the claim of 3000. Even better would be if you could get your hands on some Tesla 2170 cells. They're around 32wh/g on the cell level. I doubt any commercially available LiPo cell can match that, though that doesn't necessarily mean the 2170's are better for model aircraft. The 2170s suffer from a lot more voltage drop for one thing.

@power-max 6 жыл бұрын

You need to source 18650's from a reputable source, especially if you plan to do get many of them. Buying them on Ebay or Amazon from random sellers, you are asking for trouble. I do this for one-offs when performance isn't critical just because it's conveniant to order cells that way. However this application requires high performing cells. Typically what ends up happening is the random ebay/amazon sellers are selling much older 18650's that were manufactured a long time ago (new old stock) and often do not give you cells that are from the same batch if you order a quantity of them. The popular Panasonic 18650's, for instance, all look the same, but over time the capacity of the newer batches has gradually improved. It's actually got upwards to 3.6AH for the latest cells. Older cells were generally under 3AH. The worst part is that there is no real way to tell what generation of NCR18650 you have, most people that review them and buy them do not have means to test the cells they receive and the claims of the product. I have some really old panasonic cells that are in a purple wrapper that have really bad ESR (they actually remind me of shitty xxx-fire cells!) They are 2AH, they are like 8 years old Needless to say, they perform like shit. Sellers generally don't care that the cells they sell are old, have degraded over that time, or care to send you cells that are well matched. If anyone is aware of a reputable distributor of cells, I would love to know! Most of them I'd imagine probably do not want to deal with selling small numbers of cells to individuals.

@snesguy9176 6 жыл бұрын

The bigger problem imo is bootleg rewrapped cells. The chinese are really good at making the cells look legit. So yeah I agree, always deal with reputable source. I usually buy from illumination supply (www.illumn.com) personally, they've been the trusted source for vaping and flashlight enthusiasts for quite a few years.

@sacredbaloney 6 жыл бұрын

Not really. Brand names like LG, Samsung, Panasonic deliver 97% to 100% of the rating. You are talking about cheap Chinese batteries that are labelled not by real mAh, but by fake "flashlight mAh" = 5x real mAh.

@BrightBlueJim 5 жыл бұрын

So... you showed us a flawed test, then were too lazy to redo it properly. Total waste of time.

@crspy914 5 жыл бұрын

it wasn't flawed, the results were as expected. he just didnt fly the li-ion battery long enough down to its min voltage. so it still proves you can get over an hour flight time with li-ion.

@BrightBlueJim 5 жыл бұрын

@@crspy914 It WAS flawed, in that he DIDN'T fly it long enough, so it proves absolutely nothing. You can't extrapolate from this and say it WOULD have gotten over an hour. If you could, then there wouldn't be any need for the test, you could just calculate from the specifications. But the whole point of tests is that you can't just trust the specs to be correct for your application. Again, total waste of time.

@crspy914 5 жыл бұрын

@BrightBlueJim Okay, guy. go do the test yourself instead of wasting my time with your need to be a internet keyboard warrior.

@BrightBlueJim 5 жыл бұрын

@@crspy914 idiot

@crspy914 5 жыл бұрын

@BrightBlueJim, Myself including 142K of Toms subscribers all agree that he has valuable information to share with the community, what the fuck are you doing with your life? All you've accomplished is troll the internet and spread toxicity in our community. Go play fortnite or something, kid.

@ComandanteJ 5 жыл бұрын

I regularly run my LiPos down to 3.2-3.3v with no ill effects. One of my 3 cell ones (Turnigy branded, I got it in 2012)has around 250 cycles on it and it's still working fine. In fact, the EasyGlider I used to use with that battery lasted less than the battery itself... altough I dont know if that tells something good on the battery or something bad on the pilot, haha.

@brsrc759 4 жыл бұрын

That's crazy cool!

@forfengeligfaen 6 жыл бұрын

You probably wrecked your Li-ion batteries by soldering them. Cut them open and see!

@mike_oe 6 жыл бұрын

use a soldering iron at high temp, clean the surfaces properly, and sholder quickly then its OK. I have done dozen of cells that way and they are still working fine after 18 months and many cycles.

@kadmow 6 жыл бұрын

forfengeligfaen: ha ha... well, once you cut them open you're sure that you have wrecked them..

@peterobreza1008 6 жыл бұрын

I have solderd more than 1000 18650 bateries after 2 years steel working welllll, sory for bad english

@FPVREVIEWS 6 жыл бұрын

nothing wrong with soldering them, he's just doing it wrong. too large of a wire, and too much heat transfer.

@forfengeligfaen 6 жыл бұрын

Soldering is not a good idea! Here is why kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j9ihpqR415qVpYk.html

@jamieniche 2 жыл бұрын

Would be interested so see a revisit to this now with some of the newer 21700 cells.

@LeoFPV 6 жыл бұрын

yesss stanton upload :D

@lassie995 6 жыл бұрын

LG HG2 cells are amazing. I use them in small fpv plane, micro skyhunter, which using 1300mah lipo can fly for 15min. With 3s cell made of LG HG2 it can fly for 42 minutes, using 2400 mah from battery. This cell can be drained to 2.5v, as stated in documentation. I did very careful tests , and found out it is time for landing when cell reaches 3.3V.(no load) If you fly longer, you will squeeze some more capacity from battery, but voltage drop when opening throttle becomes dramatic and dangerous.

@unbekannternutzer8506 3 жыл бұрын

Both cells are lithium ion. lifepo4 and so on are too. The polymer comes from the plastic pouch the cell is in. The cell you refer to as lithium ion is an ICR or IMR cell. Which stands for (lithium)Ion Cobalt/Manganese Round. You also get polymer lifepos or cobald or manganese in polymer pouch.

@unbekannternutzer8506 3 жыл бұрын

Round could also mean rechargable. Not 100% sure

@yaswanth99999 Жыл бұрын

Great video, I really like the plane as well. I would like to see a diy build for that plane because it looks very efficient. It looks similar to the skyhunter and I want to try to make a rc plane like this. It would very great if I can see a build video for that plane or maybe Slighly bigger scale.

@ypsonar 6 жыл бұрын

This is future of RC Airplane and copter battery , built is very solid . . . 18650 HG2 3000mAh has current capacity is 25A . . . I used in copter and Airplane . . . Wonderful experience with good flight time, interesting think is we can modify any time 2s to 6s or more with numbers of pack combination . . . . . Thanks for that informative video . . .

@kniefi 5 жыл бұрын

14,8V at cruise speed seems a tad high still. I flew planes and multirotors for quite some years and as rule of thumb landed at 3,3v per cell under load. That makes 13.2V for a 4s configuration. Usually batteries were back to right around 3,65 - 3,68v after the flying machine turned off. with 18650 you easily discharge most of them to 3,0 - 2,8v under load without damaging them at all most likely a lot lower...

@smickandily 9 ай бұрын

This is the content I’m here for. But please do another test! You did all the work and got so close. I need to know if it’s really possible.

@dancoulson6579 2 жыл бұрын

You mention about spot welders being expensive in the UK. But that's why I'm always so amazed with your channel... You're in the UK, but you don't let that hinder your creative and inventive mind. It's really admirable. I often see American youtubers with easy access to large power tools, large cheap professional garages, less restrictions on buying chemicals. The US is a country where people have more freedom to pursue things. The UK by comparison... You can't even easily get hold of dry ice, or caustic soda, borax, etc. And we're lucky if we have a small shed to work in. But the fact that you don't give up, and don't let the loony laws, prices, and restrictions hinder you is inspiring to me. Great work, keep it up.

@fahrvergnuugen 6 жыл бұрын

What is your cruise speed and how many amps is it drawing? I'm curious what the range of that plane is with the 18650s...

@tobimai4843 6 жыл бұрын

Interesting, I always thought that LiPo has a higher energy density.

@SirFrag32 6 жыл бұрын

The question is, though, how well does your plane fly on only 8-14 volts? That seems quite low.

@monit111 6 жыл бұрын

Would this mess with the motor kv so negatively that it might stall? Volt = kv so if ur running it all the way down to 3.2 v that cant be healthy??

@richardlastra8832 3 жыл бұрын

Te felicito eres un genio. Saludos desde Ecuador

@andrewwilson8317 6 жыл бұрын

The capacity of the battery is measured down to its designed discharged voltage and not zero volts. This is the voltage the designers have declared it is safe to discharge to and the battery is considered to be discharged or " flat" at this voltage. You can use full capacity down to this voltage. Some batteries have management circuitry to prevent discharge beyond this point to prevent damage.

@lovetech3736 5 жыл бұрын

I want the 7.4v 25C lipo drone battery to replace 18650 battery which one is good for power like Lipo 25C?

@sporkeh90 2 жыл бұрын

A spotwelder is like 80gbp and you can easily make one from a car battery, foot switch, arduino and a couple of mosfets if the kit is too expensive.

@sanaab8087 3 жыл бұрын

He says power flight and a fly passes by showing off his flight skills, nice

@dondominic7404 2 жыл бұрын

If LI-ion cells could be discharged to 2 volts per cell, ie 8 volts in total, it would significantly reduce the performance of the plane because the plane would be flying at half of the rated working voltage during the final minutes of the flight. It is always better to have a constant performance and decent flight time than degrading performance and high flight time.