I like this, or make it temporary like beast, but Zabu is definitely a problem

but then that takes away so much of zabu's ability, you could still get 2 4s out on turn 6 which is good, but I feel that the 4 cost on turn 3 is what makes him special. zabu just seems like a very sensative card to tweak so i wonder how theyll end up doing it if they go that route

This change not only punishes every non Darkhawk deck but is kinda bad curve wise.

Yeah, you can legit win games without having to play Darkhawk sometimes. Having your opponent miss multiple draws can be a massive disruption, especially against combo decks.

Funny enough, Ronin is a lot better than most of his supporting cast. His best use might honestly be with Corvus Hela Ramp, where he's just a pretty big guy with no support. The only support card worth even considering for Ronin is currently Maximus imo, since a 2/6 is beefy, but the other support cards (Master Mold and Mordo) are terrible imo.

@@BatDad-qu4fo Yeah I think the major difference between DH and Dino and Ronan is that his disruption is a lot more consistent than both of them. Not to mention he can scale a lot harder, with just Korg and Rockslide he can get up to a 5/10 so most of the time he will reach a 10+ power threshold. I also like that he's no longer tied to just Zabu, I think this will allow players to try out more disruptive/control decks with DH being the main win con, and you still have Mystique to copy his effect so I think he's still fine overall.

Draw a rock or got widow bited is really annoying lmao

Yep, can take Maximus spot in Surfer decks.

lol I may never play her again... so sad... buff decks aren't even a real thing really... like who out here is playing okoye nakia panther decks? I would love for that to be viable but it's so predictable and counterable and you may not even get much power down comparative to other archetypes that just put out the juice

I feel you and same situation. Been playing mostly Darkhawk decks this season and NOT been as competitive as in prior seasons This change feels less like DH too powerful (compared to other cards especially) and more like "Dear player, please get some new cards "

I was hoping this as well. Either that or "the next turn they're 1 less" So you can play it on 5 and play 2 4s on 6

​@@evanmac1761 that would make a worse cheaper sera

That'd just be Psylocke but more narrow

The god line before was Timestone on 2 into lockjaw + stone on 3, then potentially 3 more cracks at lockjaw on 4,5,6. Zabu 2 lockjaw 3 gives you one less crack, but also now on 4 you want to be playing cull. I guess if you’re running Zabu in thanos it’s discounting Shang as well, so could have a Shang + cull line on 6, but that’s probably not better than blob or magneto on 6.

I think they really gutted an archetype here with darkhawk and ronan it was fun to play hawk 4 Ronan 5 and then spend the other turns backing this up I played a deck for a bit like this and it never felt overpowered but if you drew well it could win even though they work against each other so I'm not sure why hawk got targeted over zabu

Turn 5 hawk is just a nope considering everything else going on in the meta

Honestly to me it makes more sense to have him at a similar stat line to ronin and devil dino. It felt odd that he was the cheapest of the three when he has a very similar effect design wise and can reasonably be bigger than the other two often enough

@@Tbird1945 So nerf him to irrelevancy like the other 2? Why not just make them cost less...Dont forget he comes as part of a 3/4 card package that pretty much just for him, while the other 2 are thrown into archetypes they naturally fit with. This shit done pissed me off tbh.

I think it’s a good thing that a card that gets big for free while you’re doing something disruptive is easier to counter. I like the point with Sera into Hawk+Mystique still being viable, but now you can’t do shit like Hawk on 4 into Mystique + 2-drop into Dr Doom (for example). Also, not to mention what you can to with Zabu. I know the game has a lot of broken stuff now, but I think this is one of the things that’s good dialing down..

"thor on four" was the real play

@@hounds556 No, you do it on 3 so you have a higher chance to draw the hammer if you never see Jane.

Right, but I’m saying if Jane was already in hand

Hey, some of us Thanos players were running ongoing Spectrum without Lockjaw! Don't paint us all worth the same brush! ... Plus I get the Ant Man buff now 😉

The best Thanos deck for literally months has been lockjaw powered.

@HooglandiaSnap I definitely agree with you there. My comment yesterday was partially out of frustration, but I still have my worries. Playing with both archetypes just a little, it seems Lockjaw is far more likely to survive its nerf compared to DH. And if the dog truly is dead, Thanos Lockout seems primed to be the top of the meta with so many efficient, big bodies open to Thanos. We will have to see how it shakes out, and whatever happens won't be permanent, but I'm skeptical of the meta for March.

Because crystal draws your opponent a card

Yeah that darkhawk meta with the black widow bounce package was so toxic.

Which top tier meta decks?

"No bounce, only Shang!"

It remains to be seen how Chavez will do

I tried Chavez in a couple of Bounce games, the difference is noticeable not being able to pick who's getting your buff. It's alright, but Chavez is worse than Forge in his old state, probably better than Forge in his current state.

Forge change is a real downgrade to destroy and lockjaw decks have been the top performing decks for awhile now in Hela and Thanosm

Darkhawk is already a Series 4, I think you mean Series 3. And it would suck for people who paid tokensfor that card

@@samuelhunter4631 yep I meant series 3

Buffing her stats to 2:4 shifts the curve in a werid way

all the elsa-or-die people are absolutely hilarious.

not in the slightest imo. They just turned LG from a card that needed no support, to a card that depends on zabu or some other cost reduction to provide the same potency.

It's only a buff if those cards have no text... You've been playing for a year?

Darhawk is now with DIno and Ronan tier. These card in current meta when Enchantress and Shang are cheap and powerful are bad

@@Dejwidgakure just because a card can be countered does not make it unplayable, and tbh ronans effect is also just not as good, so I wouldn't says its a totally fair comparison. shang and enchantress have always been there during hawk metas and it was fine. People need to at the very least try new deck ideas to see what works and what doesn't before digging darkhawks grave.

@@mitchy2200 u dont get what I wrote. Read it again bro

@@Dejwidgakure lol i got what you said and i disagree

No u didnt get it. So 1. Dino is actually the easiest 1 to control and almost doesnt need support, or there is a looot of support. Still look at the Dino's stats.I like him but... 2 Yes I can agree that Hawk support cards are quite powerful in disruption, but what was most powerful with hawk u could easily play him throwing priory with shang and fight for 2 lanes. Now u have to play him on 5 and u more easily can be countered or in the final when actually playing one big card is not that competetive. Look at Basic High Evo stats when they almost alwyas plays Big hulk on t6. Its kinda bad. The flexibilty and cost was a thing making Hawk that strong. ALso u cant protect him with Caiera. Its just more awkward, and clunky at 5 cost. In snap investing in one big card easily countered is always not most optimal. I dont say he is trash he is just KINDA bad ;dMAAAYBE the disrapion package will be that powerful to carry him as a QUITE OK but never TOP TIER :D Have a good day bro :D @@mitchy2200

Warlock is probably still bad, but it wasn't good before either.

destroy is one of the most stable archetypes as far as I can tell and Forge was good in it on two with x 23, on three with carnage or wolverine... he was just very good in general in destroy not just for deadpool, although that was the main line... just my personal opinion

@@EarnestEgregore Actually you are right about the stability when I think about it, destroy had been very closed off and had only one flexible slot to put either Zola/Shang/Taskmaster, so maybe this nerf gives his spot to another card that isn't as good as he was but at least makes the deck a little more different than it has been in the last months

Plus, location synergy with Destroy is debatably best in the game as well, so there's that to consider@@Suzie8P

@@EarnestEgregore There's that too, although from my experience I rarely see Death's Domain or Altar of Death and when I do it's usually on conquest and the opponents already know my deck so they just retreat and don't give me a chance to get more cubes, but yeah, thinking about it even if Forge wasn't making destroy the top 1 deck I see how it's change can be good and was somewhat warranted for a while now

I think destroy definitely needed a nerf and I'm surprised they only went with one this small.

That was changed after this was recorded yes.

You really aren’t owed anything for changes to cards. All sales are final and cards are subject to change for the balance and overall health of the game.

Deal with it His power scaling has been way too high as the meta goes

Forge is a direct hit to Destroy and the best Hela decks are Lockjaw decks.

Miserable KZfaq comment.

Why not give an explanation on why you view this as being a miserable OTA? It's hard to agree or disagree with you when you are being gruffly vague. Now if you are just venting, I guess that's fair. But I'm guessing you have more to say about this, and I'd actually like to read your reasons on why this did not hit the mark for ya.

@@peterglen8396 This is an unusually sweet and kind comment and thank you. I left a small snarky one-liner because I didn't like the darkhawk and lockjaw change and was headed to class because I didn't care to elaborate more, but in more detail my main issue here is I just don't feel the Darkhawk change was at all necessary. I feel like 4-cost toolbox decks don't have a centerpiece now, and that Lockjaw change really hurts Janejaw which was my go-to for this entire season, but he's been really good in Hela discard which is everywhere right now so I can understand the need to hit him. A zabu hit feels like it would be more impactful and more reasonable to me personally. There's some good changes here but this is easily the OTA that has affected my favorite decks the most, hence why I'm not a fan. Also can't wrap my head around the Adam Warlock change

Solid! Appreciate reading a few different points of view. I know not every OTA will cover all bases for all players, and it will be interesting to see where these changes take the player base. Here's to successful snaps! @@reedmohlman9762

@@reedmohlman9762nah I disagree, I personally think dark hawk players are disgusting creations so I am so excited for this change! As for lock jaw and the other, I think they are all pretty good… Very excited for the Adam change, I think he is finally going to be great. I can see it now! All in all I think this was another 10/10 patch and I am excited to see what second dinner has in store for us. Don’t listen to the haters hoog, glad you put this mindless drone in there place!