This guy is chill af.

As an American who grew up learning to fire rifles and pistols, I have to say there is something almost artistic and pure with bows that firearms lack. Love your videos btw. Gonna subscribe.

Khergit Veteran Horse Archer: *"Let me show you how it's done."* -mounts horse-.

I have 2 horse bows, 3 recurve bows, 3 long bows and 3 Compound bows. I loved all of them. They are different from each other but they are great to shoot for fun at my backyard. I never hunt. Never have a thinking about going to hunt 😂😂😂. Thank you, Armin. God bless.

I’ve always been a longbow archer, but I love the size of a recurve. There’s just something I like about the feeling of holding a longbow

I love the history and construction methods of historical bows. A beautiful collection you have there, you describe the character of the bows with anologue like 'feel'. I NEED to get back into archery.

Armin is such a great archer and teacher. Wish we had him here in Australia 🇦🇺

Steppe Warriors: We made a composite bow with sinew and bone and a recurve design that gives our bows a unique draw and power for it's small size, making it versatile and perfect for mounted archery. Drunk Brit: Just remove the bark and slap a string on it. We'll do push up till we can draw it.

Just a small point. The Bows used by British archers (especially Welsh) in war were 6'+ long, had a draw weight of 100 lbs+ and fired war arrows weighing 2 lbs or more. The forces involved were so great that the skeletons of these professional archers were heavily distorted by the forces and musculature they developed. Just in case anyone confuses toy 'longbows' with what made history in places like Agincourt;-)

Very interesting, thanks! I dropped out of archery as a teen, and picked up electric guitar. I never lost interest, but was so disappointed when it seemed traditional bows were ignored for new high tech compound bows. So glad to see people loving historical archery! On another note: I have a 78" arm span and never found arrows long enough for me, plus archery shops were nonexistent back then. I could have really used a long bow and long heavy arrows comfortably with great effect.

These videos are great !! Easy to learn terminology..I'm taking notes..too many archery snobs out here in Cali they act like it's privileged information. Wish you were here..the videos make up for it. Thanks again 🙏

I am no archer, neither I know what bow is the best as you do. Recently I read that in late 17th century a Turkish official in England wanted to attend archery competitions with his composite bow but he wasn't allowed. Anyway he finds a way to enter with the help of embassador. He his arrows reached double the distance the best local archer managed. They were so impressed that they asked him if he was the champion back in Istanbul. He said '' No, with this distance they don't even let me compete, let alone they call me a true archer'' I think his range was somehwere 400 meters

I used to shoot competitively, however my love for different equipment meant I would suffer if I shot different bows. I gave up shooting competitions and just shoot for fun. You have excellent form for adapting to new bows. The muscle memory has to be fast acquired and short term to shoot lots of bows. Instinctive shooting is lots of fun! Thanks for the great video!!!!!

This is the only video I could find on this topic. Really interesting!

Excellent video! I think a sequel would be to take the same 2 bows and shoot the horn bow with a thumb ring

I like how despite your personal preference you choose to not "stack the deck" by only shooting light arrows out of the longbow. I see too many people who obfuscate the reality by only testing each type of bow on what they're good at. I personally like both types of bow, and will especially acknowledge that at low draw weights the longbow design can be quite inefficient.

Hi armin !😀 I'm a huge fan of longbows !!! In the prezent time , I'm shooting with a hazel piramid bow ( that I've built it myself) , 60lbs at 24" . Great speed , 150/170 fps ...and verry smooth shooting .

Longbow: arrow 22g= 136 FPS - 41m/s= 18 Joules arrow 30g= 125 FPS - 38m/s= 21 Joules arrow 41g= 116 FPS - 35m/s= 25 Joules Horsebow : arrow 22g= 150 FPS - 45m/s= 22 Joules arrow 30g= 128 FPS - 39m/s= 22 Joules arrow 41g= 117 FPS - 35m/s= 25 Joules

Excellent comparison, the summary is really nice. Thank you Armin!

I love your comparison onthese two types of bows. Interesting to watch and as usual I always learn something new. Thankyou very much Armin 😀🏹

Excellent comparison ... I knew already, but liked to see how you demonstrate yourself :P

thank you for this video...I love all kind of bows ^^

Thank you this was a very informative video for me. It helped me make my decision on which bow to buy.

I personally prefer Turkish composite horse bows over longbows as either way at the period in history where they were used they were becoming obsolete with the advent of better plate armor and crossbows were taking over so bows would become far less about armor penetration and more about distance however for the lightly armored groups who aren’t wearing as much plate a bow still had an effect but as I said plate armor was becoming far more prevalent so bows kind of took a backseat from their former glory as the supreme ranged weapon it still had its place though I’d say when it comes down it at this point it boils down preference and the pros and cons of the weapon Composite bows were better but were far more expensive and less durable and longbows were cheap and durable but less effective

I love that sound of longbow!

Never thought about it but it's true what he said about the longbow still being a weapon when the string breaks in battle.

He is way way way above my level, I'm just trying to keep up by watching more videos and nitpick what i need to work on. Thank you! Btw, it looked like the longbow had a more smooth release and better accuracy than the more compact bows.

quite a enjoyable video, glad to see what i always thought to be the case was true about the longbow being better suited to heavier arrows.

Impressed that we even have an actual archery shop in this little island! Definitely going to visit soon 😁

My favorite bows are like these two in this video: a Bear Polar, and Csaba Grozer Scythian. As for the arrow on the 'wrong' side: I ALWAYS use the European draw. Have to, since I can't hit the side of a barn using the thumb draw. Many a time I have watched you shoot with the thumb draw, with arrow over the thumb. So I've tried it. The result is that I respect your ability to shoot with accuracy each way! BTW, I'm 75, and have been an archery enthusiast for about 65 of those years.

Exactly what I was looking for. Shooting a longbow considering a horse bow. This was the next best thing to going to a store and fiddling with them myself. Of course I've been those stores don't exist within a 500 mi radius

I like your channel of all archery channels the most!

The longbow/flatbow, that You are using for comparison is really subpar with his thick and broad outer limbs, hence the vibration and relatively slow speed. The best limb designs toward Holmegaard or Andaman bows should outspeed every recurve from same materials. Vibration is also reduced. The horse bow, on the other hand seems to be at least average, if not even above average, not price wise (I don't know it) but regarding bow design. So, when we leave bow profiles aside (and we can do that, because latest findings in bow design show, that limb mass placement is even more important; be it what regards behaviour or the speed of the bow), we have one "high gear" bow, with relatively narrow, light outer limbs, and because shorter, it has reduced limb mass further-tatar bow, and the other, which is just the opposite, "low gear bow"; heavy, thick and broad outer limbs; but longer, and here it gains some speed back despite more limb mass. These two bow categories (in the sense of limb mass placement, not profile, You can test the two longbows, or horse bows, and get the similar results), react predictable in the way it is showed in your test: High gear bows favor ever lighter arrows to some limit, until the arrow weight doesn't get to similar to "dry firing" the bow, they are fast from beginning, but they can not move heavier arrows as fast, like it's not possible to start a car uphil in a fifth gear. Low gear bows start relatively slow, but can move heavier arrows relatively faster, because heavy arrow drains more energy from such a limb, this is showed also in less handshock with heavier arrows. The limit of low gear bow is his inital and end speed; lighter arrows are not predictably faster because of that, and they leave much remained energy in the limbs. So, my sole objection to this highly interesting video would be: when we are comparing bow categories/designs in general sense, lets take at least averagely effective designs of both varieties, and than make the comparison. For those that don't know this, and still think, that recurves are faster: When properly designed, in the sense of limb mass placement and forward profile of the bow, the flatbow is the fastest bow. I myself have two bows, classic flatbow/longbow, 68", very narrow trapezoid limbs, even narrower outer limbs, light deflex reflex, and one more to hybrid style, heavier riser, 66", extreme deflex reflex, but the string doesn't touch the limb at all. Limbs also very light outer limbs. I have yet to meet a recurve of any kind, of same poundage, and arrow weight per pound, which is faster. The last volume of bowyers bible, in the chapter "Bow design and performance revisited", subtitle "Straightbow versus recurve", gives profound explanation of that. Also on other places in the same volume. My comment is really not meant to be an attack of any kind; more a further explanation for those that are interested, and a suggestion for subsequent videos? I enjoyed this video all the same immensely; from these two, my vote goes to horse bow also. I like this channel very much, and I respect and enjoy a wealth of free knowledge in the areas of traditional shooting and bows, which are less familiar to me. Greetings and best wishes to You, Armin!

Now try that with a true medieval long bow of 140 -160 lb with a 33 inch draw and lets see what the difference its. I'm not sure what the re-curve would be for that era but either way it would be interesting to see the results. Thanks for sharing. Best Wishes n Blessings. Keith Noneya

That's a ~ 22% increase in kinetic energy for the lightest arrow. That's actually a significant effect.

I laughed when you realized you put the arrow on the wrong side 😂😂

I like how you have your preferences, but you appreciate all bows. Never seen you really say anything bad about a bow. A positive attitude always.

Fun and interesting comparison. I have shot both and agree that it depends on the scenario. Historically, if I were a foot soldier or in wet terrain, I would take a longbow simply for ease of maintenance and the fact that most horsebows were made of composite materials, and had glue that required constant upkeep and was sensitive to moisture. As an aside, to reduce the vibration in the longbow, I would look at adjusting the brace height required for the bow. Brace height is the distance from the bow to the string at the point where you hold the bow and can vary widely from bow to bow. I had a huge problem with vibration in my longbow for years and it sounded much like the bow in the video. A bowyer pointed out that my brace height was off, and I had no clue what he was talking about. After correcting the brace height, the vibration (and noise) almost completely disappeared, arrows were less apt to fishtail (wiggle back and forth in flight), and I my draw weight increased from 45 pounds to 50 pounds. A general rule of thumb is that a 6 foot (1.82 meter) longbow should have a brace height of about 6 inches (15.24 cm), but again, this varies depending on the make and model of the bow, as well as the habits of the archer, so it takes trial and error to get it just right.

Are you sure you are using the right arrows for longbow?Different bows different arrows.

I am from Denmark and we have some of the world's best archers with compound bow. So of course I have a compound bow!

Not a true longbow but a slightly recurved flatbow, however this video is relevant

Hi Armin, I own both the flat long bow and a horse bow from FD. After shooting both bows I enjoy the horse bow more. Less cumbersome and less vibration. Flaxen Saxon

very nice bow, I really like to see your background video,, thanks a lot

Here is a look at the momentum and kinetic energy transferred to the arrows. All units are Hirmer units, and are arranged from left to right, as in the table shown on the video. Horse bow momentum 1650 - - - - - -2048 - - - - - 2457 Horse bow kinetic energy: 247500- - - -262144 - - - 287469 Long bow momentum: 1496 - - - - - - 2000 - - - - - 2436 Long bow kinetic energy 203456 - - - -250000 - - - 282576 Conclusion. In both cases, the heavier the arrow, the more momentum and kinetic energy is transferred to it. Overall, the horse bow transferred more momentum and energy to the arrow, making it the more lethal of the two weapons. Great experiment. Great data!

very informative, wonderful Technic, thank you for the demonstration.

As an archery old-timer: Longbows are more stable, Turkish-style recurves have more cast (speed ) due to their sharply curved limb giving a 'cam action' to augment the limb, so they have more speed & distance, more touchy on accuracy. There are trade-offs on everything. Longbow = accuracy & penetration, recurve = speed & distance. Yes, longbows handle heavier arrows, recurves do better w/lighter ones. The longbow in this video is actually a reflexed longbow, not true straight-end longbow, just a touch less stable.

Seems like little has changed. Cavalry Carbines versus Infantry Rifles had similar comparisons in performance up through World War I. In World War II, it was the difference between early intermediate cartridge weapons (STG-44, M1 Carbine) and their full size rifle counterparts (Kar98k and M1 Garand). Through the Cold War, it's Assault Rifles versus Battle Rifles, and now, Assault Rifles and Assault Carbines versus Personal Defense Weapons. This is truly a fascinating look at the "arms parity" between "mobile forces" and "line forces" that shows, even going back to archery, how and where smaller and lighter weapons are best fielded, versus heavier ones - that the struggle for the "one longarm to rule them all" Goldilocks weapon system has been going on for.. what.. a thousand-plus years?

the horse bow just looks so much easier and practical to handle and carry as a ranged weapon. Makes you think in terms of survival all the variables you need to consider when you are hunting/in battle and how your gear can affect your ability to effectively move and adapt as the situation unfolds. A big heavy longbow is ideal as long as you have hard cover you don't need to move from, where your food is rationed to you behind castle walls. But out on the plains, or deep in the forests, a lightweight bow that can be carried easily with one hand, minimize your silhouette, but still provide lethal force is everything you could ask for in what is supposed to be a cheap weapon that you can make with your immediate environment. These bows are awesome either way

Ive made a bunch of longbows and I just want to say longbows are delicate when it comes to vibration and it all comes down to mass and energy transfer. all that extra wood absorbing all the energy from the string it all goes into your hand rather than the arrow, making the bow shorter and removing the bulk from the handle will greatly reduce vibration

One thing about long bows is that they are less sensitive to let off string let off twist due to the strength of the limbs.

thank you for the comparison

If I remember right the current longest range shots are still held with the Mongol style composite recurve bows.

interesting. i always felt the horse bow was faster but as the war comes on and the weight goes up the heavy shootin longbow comes into it's own. personally i enjoy both. personally i find the longbow has less hand shock than my horse bow but the extra speed of the horse bow comes in handy out to about 35 yds. one day play mongol- next day play agincourt. hahaha. thank yew have fun gare

Horsebow use only with a thumb's ring. Otherwise, there is not enough tension (for long heavy weigt arrows) and energy to completely release the kinetic energy of the limbs.

very Interesting. In 1958 I had a makita short bow 34 lb pull but the laminate cracked after not much use.

Maybe hornbow vs english longbow next time?

thank you

Exceactly, Horse-bow is more effective shot from a charching horse!

The real advantage for the longbow is construction. Easier, faster, and cheaper to build. A horse bow may be more advanced; yet, not necessarily the better option for every war. (assuming the English could have a choice) > I have a recurve and a flat bow in the same poundage. I much more enjoy the feeling of a flat bow. If I get sucked back in time somehow; I'll take the horse bow.

Great comparison - thanks!

I like horse bow for its size and it's comfortability and long bow too.

I have longbow and a hose bow to and that was very interesting thanks for the demonstration love it 👍👍🎯🎯

Merci pour cette belle et instructive vidéo. Je suis un papy de 74 ans et je tirais à l'arc à l'age de è ans. A la fête foraine de Pigale de Paris. Je vais essayez de me fabriquer un arc ancien avec corne, fibre de tendon etc. Je suis artiste, sculpteur, inventeur. Une expérience interessante pour moi. Question: il y a bien 20 ans dans une boutique d'antiquaire, j'ai acheté un petit arc d'indiens des iles. ?? cela me semblait étres un piège pour touriste. Mais j'ai acheté car il y avait une chose qui m'a beaucoup surpris. Il y avait une sorte de petit bouton avec un trou qui était fixé dans la corde de l'arc. Une sorte de visière qui a pour but d'augmenter la vision. C'est un principe qui est bien connue. Mais dans le milieu et grande famille du tir à l'arc, je n'ai jamais entendu parlé de ce truc de visé ? Je connais la sucette pour la bouche. Si vous avez des informations ?Merci. Patrick Dupré: Montpellier.

A graceful weapon if ever there was one.

I was a Firefighter and we had just put a fire out in a house and we were rolling up hoses, I had my helmet sitting in the truck. As I was bent over rolling a hose the kid that lived in the house shot me in the head with an Arrow. He used a 30 pound Sears bow, with a an untiped Arrow. Struck me in my hairline above my left eye and penetrated to the rear of my skull. Seeing and hearing those Arrows impact that target actually made me flinch. Is there any information as to the Draw Weight of Welsh Bowmen say in the 1500’s. Great video, well done.

Great accuracy!

thanks

Longbow force is linear and Horsebow force is exponential, I believe you were trying to show.

The long bow is not as sensitive to a bad release. Check how consistent it is compared to the horse bow.

Excellent comparison! what are your targets made of?

i can never get used to how close your forearm is to the string with the longbow. it makes me nervous

I thought recurved bows were pulled with the thumb & forefinger rather than the 2 finger pull of the long bow. While the recurved bow is fired past the other side of the bow - for a righthander, the arrow goes past the right side of the bow, where as with the longbow, the arrow goes left of the bow. Or it doesn’t really matter?

bow tension 100 pounds @ Morning measurements of the bowstring draw on the 85 cm boom showed 101 lbs. (46 kg) and I did not hear any crackling or even rustling .. I've wanted to do this for a long time. I did it. Bow for Applied Experimental History, the guesses and hypotheses associated with the history of the bow are tested using test methods. Arrow flight range, combat accuracy, initial and final arrow speed, penetration force of various materials, storage conditions, practical application, ease of use and much, muc

to add to the video itself, no, its not the longbow for long range and horsebow from short range, its exactly the other ways around. a speedy lighter arrow lose momentum easier but a big heavy arrow has far more air resistance and drop due to gravity. the ever recorded longest longbow shot is around 400 yards while the recurves can shoot to around a 1000 yards, that's a huge difference. thin speedy arrows have better penetration while massive longbow arrows have better stopping power. The choice of arrow makes a huge difference but not the way you are saying. both bows are equally capable to fire the same arrow, the speed is dependent on the bow's characteristics. with nearly all the arrows you tried you seriously overloaded those toybows. go up to the 60-70lb weights and there you will see a serious difference. The normal speed for a single wood longbow is around 130-170 fps while a proper eastern compound recurve can go up to around 330 fps with matching arrows. in regard the vibration and sound of the bows you are right but it seems you are unaware of the cause, which is the stringed tension of the bow. the longbow has barely any pre-tension so the string is quite loose, thats why it sounds like a bass guitar contrary to the recurve that has a high pre-tension when stringed and has a much higher pinch and lower vibration

Both awesome bows! What horsebow were you using in this video? Sadly, I didnt unterstand its name at the beginning. Also, I'm planning to buy a budged horsebow for around 100 euros. What is your favorite low budget horse bow (maybe a hard question to answer :)) out of the Crimean Tartar, or Mongol bow from alibow and the scythian bow from Flagella Dei (or other bows im not aware of)?

With the Japanese long bow you have much less vibration because the grip is down lower on the bow. It's at a vibrational node, so it's less vibration at the grip.

I used to have a longbow but always wore an arm guard.

Came by coincidence without knowing whats a longbow and subscribed

I've got a question. I'm currently making myself a string jig to make strings. Actually, two questions! 1. How do you measure bow length on scythian or even mongolian horesebows that are c shaped when in rest? is it still limb end to limb end or do I rest the measuring tape on the top of the C to catch all of the length? 2. could you make a video on various strings and recommended types of loops, dacrons etc for various bows? I'm mainly interested in horsebows or trad recurves, fibreglass ones. how to measure how many loops of what string to what bow :) Thank you, i've been binging your videos for a while now and my notebook of things you inspired me to try is getting very full! :D

Gotcha !! Thanks

Very interesting,...….thanks so much for posting.

I suppose it largely comes down to numbers, training and discipline. For me longbows under 'ideal situation', will tend to take down mounted archers/horses, before the mounted guys get to their effective range.

excellent archer this man

I don’t use my longbow, too slow, too awkward. Recurve!

Depends on the bows. An 80@32 Manchu horn bow shot the same 1230 grain arrows 15 fps faster (190 fps v 175 fps) than a 125@32 yew longbow in another test. Karpowicz made a 180 lb Crimean Tartar bow for Joe Gibbs. I shot the same heavy arrows (around 1000 grains) 20 yds farther than his 180 lb Italian yew longbow. Takes a lot to get a heavy arrow 20 yds farther. My 40@28 AF Tartar is 10 fps faster than my 40@28 Martin Savanah longbow w 450 grain arrows (11.25 grains per pound). The Martin bow set world flight records when it came out in 2004.

My dad got himself a bow recently, when i asked him how many pounds it was he responded by telling me the price (pounds £ we live in the UK). So then i had to explain to them that the draw weight of a bow is measured in pounds. Really i should have just asked what's the draw weight on it to save the confusion. He got himself one at 50 Ibs, i'm thinking maybe that's a bit much for a beginner, but he's a strong guy though. I've not tried it out yet but i'm a slender guy and no where near as strong as my Dad, so i think my shoulders, arms and wrists will get tired pretty fast as i'm also a beginner and not in the habit of using all the archery related muscles I just happen to know more of the theory than the practical.

I really appreciate the video.

I was wonder if you could do a video on where you get your arrows from :) I still have trouble finding good arrows consistently and always trying different kinds

Interesting video! What do think is the optimal (or minimal/maximal) arrow length for each bow in your opinion?

Which arrows would be the best for it ,at the 50 pound Mongolian bowTennessee prep or USA thank you

AH..Good video man! Unfortunately my laptop seems to feel that my sense of hearing has improved. NOT! I could just barely hear you. It's my understanding that the Turkish recurve held the distance record until the 1970s. You ever do a comparison using one?

This is pure art!

Thanks Armin for great comparison, very valuable. I‘m a little bit confused by the summary, why the arrows shoot by the horsebow have less penetration power on long distances? According to the table data showm here the arrows have always the same or more velocity compared to the longbow. Thanks

if it was a heavy side gust because that was the plan what would you train for

Excellent video! One question. would the arrow speed of the horse bow be increased by the speed of the horse? Ex. if the horse is moving at 30 mph, & the arrow is being shot in the forward direction, it seems like the arrow speed would be faster by 30 mph. Penetration force would definitely increase & even surpass the long bow. Considering all other dynamics of shooting from horse back, it is amazing how skilled they were in battle shooting in all directions!

Long time no see

Shouldnt it be called a composite bow instead?

I'd like to make it clear that although the shorter bow is called "horse-bow", it's a classical Turkish bow which is almost 4000 years. Arrows should be thrown not from the right side but left side for a right handed archer (here you are throwing on the left side of the bow though it's true for the long bow)

Interesting, would like to see a test with a D shaped self bow and a fast Laminate Horse Bow, both 50lb at 28"

I grew up with long bows and recurve bows, in the past few years I've gained interest in the Asian form of archery, I bought a couple horses bows one is a 60lb manchue and a different style of horse bow that is 45lb bow which is the same lb draw as my Bear recurve but both bows shoot very differently, do you have any suggestions on things I can do to help me adjust to how horse bows function as there shot, or is continuously shooting the only way?