"If you got hit by a black hole in real life it would also be unblockable" -Lord Knight ; 2022

I remember Dormammu's thorn carpet just being completely absurd in the unpatched version of MVCI. Covers the entire floor, active for a good bit, METERLESS, and easy-to-setup.

I think the funneling question to answer whether or not a move is broken is how many "problems" it solves in a game Using strive sol's vanilla 6S as an example, that shit caught low profiling, air approaches, reached nearly full screen, was a combo extender, was a combo starter and was also disjointed. There was rarely a situation where it wasn't useful

Early in MKX, Quan chi had a move that summoned a bird above him that attacked after a period of time, and it went low. He would just loop hard to blockables because he had 2 other normals that were overhead and jump ins and hed use a move that was like plus 100 as the combo ender, so there were no options besides guess on variable low high timings that could be as close as 1 frame apart. Also neither the bird or ender costed meter

I think most players consider moves that answer multiple possibilities with high return, limited counterplay and no significant downsides to be broken. Moves that have a level of commitment to the option feel fair when you get hit by them.

You didn't talk about it, but Hidden Missiles in Marvel 3 is up there in my list of top 3 broken moves. It's easy to input (back + heavy), Doom fires multiple missiles that he can delay, they can OTG and juggle, and the most important thing is that they don't go away on hit or block, so it's something that the opponent constantly has to be aware of throughout the match.

To me, “broken” is when one of the buttons or directions stops working on your arcade stick. Often you can get away with replacing just the microswitch, but sometimes you’ll need to swap out the entire component.

“If you got hit by a blackhole in real life it would also be unblockable” Just FD irl

One thing that was dismissed in the video about Sol's f.S was that, on top of all the good things about that move, was originally much better on launch due to the way FD used to work. Was it broken? I don't think so. But for a move to be plus on block like it was, advanced forward, and did a lot of damage as a starter, you would think FD would push it back and counteract it, right? Nope, it did fuck all and made him an additional 2f more advantageous. So a +2 f.S became +4, which sucked dealing with. But now that they changed how FD works and nerfed his f.S, I genuinely think there's no reason why people should be calling it broken in any regard.

I think it depends on the skill level involved, and the era. To new players (or complaining scrubs), the definition of easy to use, oppressive moves definitely works. My friend who is pretty much new to fighting games absolutely hates Strive Baiken's esports buttons (j.S, 2S, 2H). If he was familiar with FGC terms, he might label them broken. I just know they frustrate him and finds them difficult to deal with, but again, he's new. Is a new player going to be able to separate out specific moves like you mentioned, like Kokonoe's gravity super? Probably not, all they know is that they got mauled by someone way above their skill level. Someone new to plus R isn't going to know specifically what is broken about a character like Zappa or powered up A.B.A, they just know they got rocked. As for the era, there's the first part of the pre-patch arcade days, the 'deal with it' days. Yes, there's lots of nonsense in Marvel 2, or third strike Chun, but it was something that existed. If it was so distasteful for you, you moved on to another game. Couldn't exactly scream on twitter for nerfs. And if some aspects of a game were bad enough then you had community bans (Rugal...) or the game ended up as a Kusoge.

I'll throw in c-roa's charged air orbs in mbaacc for the broken moves list. I'm a huge fan of mbac/aa/aacc and have spent a ton of time with aacc, but C-Roa almost single handedly makes me not want to seriously compete in cc, and I lost a lot of competitive drive for the game when someone finally got good enough at C-Roa to win a large NA tournament. Just a fun list of charged air orb placement/activation properties. Placement is fast, special cancellable into activation, placement can be cancelled into shield in case god forbid someone try to hit you placing the orb, stops your air momentum so you don't commit to flying in the sky when TK'd. Activation is + infinity on grounded block, air unblockable, turns Roa to face the opponent allowing him to break crossup protection, leads into huge combos on hit from like 2/3 screen away, goes almost fullscreen, the orb turns around if the opponent sideswaps with it (orb will never fire the wrong direction). If c-roa can't confirm it at literal full screen, he'll just throw up another orb and you have to gamble with like shield/air options as you're falling. The cherry on top of all of this is he'd still be high tier if they just completely removed charged air orb from his kit with no compensation. So yeah, there's my c-roa charged air orb rant, this character/move actually makes me not want to seriously grind a game I otherwise love.

I feel like what makes a move broken is the context of the character as well Chun-Li in 3rd Strike has a great SA2, the game's best kara throw iirc, a great 5HP, good movement speed, and a few other attributes, but what ties her together imo is her 2MK Relatively long range low with an unusually late cancel window With no meter, Chun-Li is a decent keepout character that can repeatedly poke at the opponent, but with a bar of SA2, suddenly her 2MK is a hit confirmable low with short total duration and good range, which leaves her safe and far away when blocked, or puts you in a disadvantageous spot after a super and a combo after said super. Because you're this afraid of her 2MK, you'll be holding down back, and she can just repeatedly poke you, or approach and kara throw. While this is going down, she's building more and more meter, and she may potentially build another super or get very close to it while you're blocking. Her kara throw, her SA2, her 5HP and her 2MK are all good, but they become insanely good when paired up with each other.

i was waiting him to talk about izanami shield...

No one plays my game but in Pokken Aeigislash has a safe on block lunge that goes over lows and under highs that sets up into an unblockable and even if they don't do that sets up into the best setplay int he game

Soul Charge Low Manji for Yoshimitsu in Soulcalibur 6. Guranteed mix with the result of mad damage or super safe pressure after, and covers alot of options with just K.

I am very interested in the story of LK vs Mids, really curious as to how far back it goes.

I'd aways figured as those being moves that were just too good rather than broken. I'd figured broken stuff were things where it has no answers or only one answers.

I think I would probably add lc21’s original super command grab and anti-air spin in dragon ball. The command grab was 21 frames- so pretty fast-completely invincible from frame 4- so you couldn’t mash or dp through it, and it also gave a 21% damage bug to her supers and a 21% damage debuff to all of her opponent’s moves. And, it could grab the opponent in hitstun. This means the grab could be used in mix, as a reversal, and as a combo finisher into a safe jump. There was really no counter play. The anti-air spin might not quite be broken, but there was no real confer play to it. Like you just couldn’t interact in the air with her at all

Learned I can get a combo off of a haircar-badmoon 50/50 if I knockdown with pin-6h from this video lol, thanks.

Izayoi CF 1.0 Slave Trans AM . A fully invul 12 frame Install for 50 meter basically a pause button. Could be used on wake up and your oppenents offence is effectively over as because of izayoi's fast speicals it was a risk to press anything on oki. Oh and the install activated a pair of bits that attacked after izayoi herself did any normal once the active frames of that move had started so a fast normal like 5a these bits would almost always come out unless you attacked meaty which if you did would be seen during the superflash and DPed. The bit attack would still come out if izayoi was hit and they did grip of damage on thier own and could greatly increase the damage of any follow up combo as well as auto safe jump and apply pretty elaborate pressure sequences on offence. They reduced the invul so you could punish it meaty in 2.0 still an amazing move.

LK, you've been preaching this for a minute l0l. Glad to see youre still as invested in correcting the terminology

Fire thumbnail. Genuine masterpiece

I would be able to block a black hole irl

Testament's forward exebeast in ggxxac definitely deserves a spot here. Guaranteed frame 1, meterless, + on block, picks up off ground, and frcable.. I think exebeasts in +r might be up there too but didn't play enough to know

I feel like it's the opposite of how you described it. The general population thinks moves that are generally really good and flexible in every situation are broken, while you think moves that are unbeatable in one specific situation are broken. There's the unbeatable in an anti-air situation with valkenhayn, and there's unbeatable in oki situation with litchi, millia and gotenks, and I think kokonoe? And then there's gun that's just broken.

I thought we were gonna talk about original lab coats grab. Nerfs your damage can end every combo with it a 4 frame reversal and can be grabbed out of hit stun. They banned her some places because of it.

8:45 damn what a thesis. You could have added the VSauce beat drop

At this point I'm convinced, if a move resembles a lunging gut punch, it'll be broken.

20:31 Yes, I did! The difference is: - People don't play BlazBlue :)

Pre nerf Annie install was absolutely busted. Even now that it cost meter to get into it's still the kill a character move and a win condition. I main Annie and even I know once she is in install she is the best character in the game. Insane damage, easy mix ups, amazing space control, and leaving install is a reversal so if you get hit and they combo you they either have to bait out you leaving or pray they don't drop it as it only cost a bar to leave install and even if you don't have a full bar it just takes what's left and let's you leave still getting the reversal. There is also photo bop which is a super you have access to inside of install that takes all your remaining meter and you need to have at least 3 to activate it but it's also fully invincible and so much super stop if they pressed anything you get it and get to combo off it

Let's talk about a different type of broken: beta Kragg Pillar in Rivals of Aether. How Kragg's Pillar works now is that when you use upspecial, it puts a Pillar underneath you, which gives you some height and refreshes your double jump and air dodge (since you're on the ground). You can destroy Pillar by hitting it, and if you stay on the Pillar is slowly descends. That last part is important, since it's a big reason why the move provides interesting gameplay. However, in early versions of Rivals of Aether, Pillar did not descend if you stayed on it in any capacity. This let you use Pillar underneath the stage and time out the opponent with little to no counterplay since any attempt to punish Kragg would still be in Kragg's favor since he can parry you or anti-air you if you try to stop him. Of course, if you get a stock lead at any point then you just win automatically with this too. The tools you said people thought were broken were moves that were easy to use with high return, the moves you said were broken were moves with extreme flexibility that enabled degenerate strategies, while Pillar is broken due to enabling a degenerate strategy with a single use case when it would honestly be balanced in other use cases. That's why Pillar was changed to descend while people were standing on it: the move had good gameplay elsewhere, and the change fixed the problem without dramatically affecting other use cases.

I do unlimited matches with friends IRL in BBCP:EX still, and my friend mains Kokonoe, while I main Nu. We often chill out on game night at his college with it on a projector. The black hole is loopable as her unlimited version pretty easily, but Nu in that matchup can delay and manually ukemi into 623C -> 66 to escape it.

I'll never get how people had such a hard time with Z Broly. maybe it cause im used to the much scarier grabs of King from Tekken and Zangief.

So I am curious to know why you didn't include Secret Garden in this list. I was expecting it for sure.

I always felt like the Zero loops in umvc3 looked pretty hard to deal with. I don’t think you can consider it a single move since he has to activate the lvl 1 thing to get it but it comes to mind when we discuss broken things

Allow me to ask my good friend Hakuto No Ken.

Thinking about things like Jon Talbain’s Close HK. It’s not a broken move no, but if your opponent jumps out on you inputting the command grab you get the attack instead. And it’s his anti-air. Being able to make an assumption and be wrong while still coming out positive makes a move good. Being INSANELY WRONG or not thinking much about it at all is what creates a tier separation. It’s flexibility.

I'd say "Moves with virtually zero counterplay", though that's just an initial qualifier that probably needs more refining. Things like leading to infinite loops of Oki setups with no options for escape or reversing, like what the video showed. Long-lasting unblockables that are easy to setup and impossible to punish, moves that last past the point of being hit, and potentially something as simple as guaranteed unblockable High/Low setups would qualify for me. I think this list did a good job of showcasing stuff like that. I also hate certain braindead attacks, Sol's Far-Slash coming to mind. But there ARE ways to play against and even overcome them in almost all situations. Being broken takes a little something more.

Meta Knight Tornado in Brawl, Melee Fox and Falco shine in melee. Though I think Fox and Falco are still a degree below meta knight for that.

Was surprised with no Puff rest.

I've been playing a lot of DNF lately and it seems to be a general consensus that the game overall is "broken". Pretty much everyone I know personally stays away from the game because "man, that shit is just too ham". Being difficult to deal with/knowledge checks often get mislabeled as broken in my opinion. For me I define "broken" as why not buttons. Hitman awakening DP being safe on block into super, Striker wake up (blocked) DP into guardbreak TODs, Johnny Bacchus Sigh unblockable meaties into knockdown to repeat the situation. Generally situations (like LK mentioned) where no matter what happens on the interaction one player is ALWAYS favored I would call broken. bonus example for MTG people: Expropriate. I've never resolved it and lost the game, 25+ casts in 4 player pod commander games and a 100% win rate on resolution is probably broken. In the rare situation you can even Expropriate + Narset's reversal on your own spell how do you possibly even lose?

LK just teaching us kids how to think like a fg player. He continues to expand our minds

I’m surprised UI tech wasn’t on the internet list. One move I want to mention is Dark Phoenix Rising in vanilla MVC3. That part of the character was so strong, that either Phoenix was on the team, or your team had to have a strategy to beat her.

MOP is a move that elevates Testament from very good to top tier in ACR, combo routes are built around meter gain just to access it. The counterplay exists and can be very interesting but in most MUs that shit is GGs. Better than guard crush loops at least.

Zero's install in UMVC3 counts. In combination with his ability to cancel special moves with charge buster it has as close to 0 counterplay as one could think of

MBAA Roa orbs

If a black hole came at me IRL I would simply fuzzy mash.

Easy to use/set up hard if not impossible to deal with/lack of counterplay.

As far as I remember, UI Goku's hab almost always traded in his favor too

I've always considered "broken" to mean something that either completely changes a game just by existing as a threat(LC21 command grab, Gogeta4 Level 7, etc) or something that directly contradicts the general balancing direction I think season 1 Sol is a good example of the second becaus between the Nike fS, 5K being tied fastest start-up normal in the game AND a consistent anti-air, AND having the plus on whiff sVV, I considered him a "broken" character because he had a disproportionate amount of defensive tools, so I would call each of them broken, but only because they're all there to cover each other. I don't really think any individual move should be considered broken, no matter how good it is, unless it's specifically good because it's existence changes the game.

Crusader 236M (wall) and Hitman Awakening DP > follow-up are some examples of borderline broken moves in DNF Duel. I believe you can’t roll punish a wall call out but he’s slightly minus and has to spend MP for it. Same with Hitman DP, he can’t spam it because it costs MP and the follow-up can be DP’d, plus he has to be in Awakening. They’re insanely good moves but just short of being truly broken.

That chopper plushie in the background is hella broken ngl

In FG it's how flexible and how little counter play that makes something broken

dnf has a lot of examples of moves and strategies I'd consider broken, swift master tornado buff, crusader wall & awakening hitman dp are the main ones in terms of single moves. Probably my most hated broke move tho is Xrd chipp teleport yrc. There's a ton of yrc neutral skips on Xrd but I feel like chipp teleport is the only one with zero counter play

Bro when i saw nago 2S i cursed out loud

Wow a core a gaming vid

Awesome thumbnail

Song?

UI's jab is broken because of the hitbox. Hits really high and I believe behind him.

The hellzone grenade meta was just straight up unfun to watch until the patched in different snapback timings

soku has quite a few moves that are just kinda kusoge-level broken, like yuyuko's 4-card that just places an unblockable time bomb on the opponent that can only be avoided by hitting her or perfectly timing a backdash (and apparently this interaction is unintentional lmao), or iku's 4-card veils like sky which is basically an RC on use that also applies a buff that lets her graze (dash) through physical attacks for 15 seconds, basically making challenging her in neutral incredibly risky. Though soku is a game where nearly every character has some kind of 'fuck it I win neutral now' special or super so maybe those aren't too broken in the context of the game

I thought I’d see a move by Johnny on the list

No honorable mention to Melee shine smh

KOF Krizalid That one move that is Hi/Mid/Low/Overhead/THROW, ANTI-AIR&COUNTER THROW In *one single move* On a Boss character, of course BUT STILL...

Im similar to LK. Moves that can cover a ton of options, has mix ups and force you to play in a specific way are an absolute nightmare. If the move is strong because its a good neutral tool, its fine because at least the opponent can still form a strategy and play the game. But if it keeps you locked in disadvantage, trying to block or escape for dear life with little to no options to do so, then i believe that move is broken.

As a gotenks and happy chaos player. I feel attacked /s

Honorable mention for DNF. Strikers DP. It's safe on block and can literally lead into guard break for free and she can do it into a tod in some cases.

i feel like you should have covered Kohaku's 4B in mbaacc since it's a great example for a move that is incredibly broken: Disjointed 6f normal +1 on block because of a recovery glitch or something. Busted starter with general optimization usually you get guaranteed 4.5k range. Full optimization you get roughly about 6.4k on Akiha(has the strongest defense multiplier quarters in the game) Combos into itself on counter hit, On CH with 4B>2[C] link, characters just die Beats low shield because standing low Vary ambiguous pressure starter and animation allowing for a good mix of pressure extensions/pressure gimmicks edit: wording

completely off topic, but this is the 2nd time i see that 1 frame of your mic cam or whatever, wtf is up with that? 2:58 edit: the webcam glitches a lot this video and it freaks me out cuz it makes me think something is wrong with my eyes

I think there's varying degrees of broken. I guess its just how much bs from a move an individual can put up with. For example: I find in Tekken, Paul's qcb4 to an absolutely broken move. Good range, + on block, homing, KND, that's also a CH launcher with a good hitbox. The move singlehandedly changes the way ppl have to approach Paul, and that's not even going into the synergies it has with his other tools. But at the same time, if I really had to say. I would just see it as a really strong move when moves like Electric exist. I think a move being described as broken, can still be described as such relative to its own game. Like a move that's very easy to use, little counter-play, and the rewards vastly outweigh the risks I would describe as broken. Even if that move is somewhat beatable, I would still see it as broken depending the degree of effort an opponent needs to put in for the counterplay.

Shoutouts to genei jin

I think the most broken move ive seen in a fighting game is Ken's SA3 on 3rd strike. That move had 2f startup, reached really far, gave you good damage and a 50/50 after it because of the hard knockdown. And the worst part of the of that move is that he was able to punish a lot of stuff on hit, and Ken could also confirm into it from almost all of his normals. And it being locked behind bar pretty much didnt matter for Ken since he had one of the best meter build in the game and SA3 had a really small bar and 3 stocks.

You missed the old man in DBFZ. His counter or something like that. Everyone complained about it and they nerfed it. You saw him in tournaments and everyone used the old man.

Whatta thumbnail

LK, I'm so glad you brought up Kokonoe's Black Hole super, but how did you simultaneously bring up BlazBlue and also completely skip over RIBCAGE?! They straight up gave this woman the power star from Smash Bros and thought it was fine. That move was INEXCUSABLE, especially before they nerfed it. For anyone who doesn't know, Izanami from BlazBlue Central Fiction has, in my opinion, the DUMBEST move in a fighting I've ever played affectionately referred by the fans as "Ribcage". She places a barrier on herself that negates ALL FORMS OF DAMAGE while slowly depleting her barrier meter. This move singlehandedly allowed you to: 1. Knock your opponent down and safely apply pressure of just about any length, including about as many mixups as you wanted without the threat of ANY wakeup options because they all failed to damage her in this state 2. Completely neutralize the threat of insanely strong moves regardless of what they were, INCLUDING SUPERS 3. ENTIRELY SKIP NEUTRAL! What footsies/neutral game do you even have to play while completely impervious to damage? The things that were supposed to make this move "fair" were the fact that you could: 1. Grab her, which would neutralize the shield (but how while she's constantly throwing out normals that you have to respect?) 2. Burst. No joke, your only two options are throw and burst. Who decided that it would not block ONLY BURSTS of all things? Any Izanami player could literally knock you down once, apply Ribcage and just about force you use your burst. BlazBlue also has "counter assaults", which are the equivalent of "dead angles" from Guilty Gear that a player needs to SPEND 50% METER to use while blocking that, in theory, get the opponent off you and buy you some time to breathe. Does this universal system mechanic work to get this nightmarish abomination off of you? NOPE. Eats it just like everything else. I always felt that at the very least, Overdrives should break the shield. If your opponent decided to use meter, that should get at least SOME payoff, but no, she's LITERALLY INVINCIBLE.

One more broken move has to be pre-nerf(and maybe post nerf) Lab Coat 21 grab super. Holy crap what a move, first of all it is grab super and a fast one at that, so you get a strike/throw mix off of it and you can cancel into this move at any point during a pressure string. The move can(used to be able to) be combo’d into so you get free damage off of from either your or another character using tag supers. Not only that, lab coat 21 buffs herself by 21% and nerfs her opponent by 21% PERMANENTLY FOR THE MATCH, so instead of a 2 touch game that all characters play in dragon ball, the character that are debuffed now need 3 touches to kill. This move I think is the most broken move in fighterz history ever, yeah Broly command grab is amazing, yeah UI’s buttons are insane, season 2 GT goku had some funny things about him also with things like non reflectable auto combo and spirit bomb being super plus and you being able to full combo off it, but I think it all pales in comparison to the grab super because of how it fundamentally changes the way the opponent has to play for the entire match

Vergil swords in mvc3 would count as a broken move too

it sounds like what the moves people call broken have in common is that the play is a lot easier than the counterplay. There are ways to beat them, but those are considerably harder to execute than just spamming the move.

The most broken in move in guilty gear is slayer 6p according to the memes

god kokonoe is so cool I wish black holes were real

I think what makes something broken is it pushing other things out of the meta. Generally speaking, I'm not talking about moves, which imo, is a little bit goofy of a thing to focus on, as they are just a piece of the puzzle, a simple tool a character has that together, make up the whole character. Labcoat for example, was, and largely still is OP, imo, because of the fact that she is, (and this part here is very key), obviously much more powerful than the vast majority of characters in the game. Much like release UI, or day 1 Sol, these characters have a whole arrangement of powerful tools, that truly do make many other characters look completely lackluster in comparison. This concept of a character being strong enough overall to make others look weak in comparison, is what makes them unfair, and therefore imo, OP. Something as simple as "reflect proof" strings, when tons of characters don't have that, is just blatantly unfair in the hands of a character who already has the same, or better overall tools as another. These concepts usually define the meta in non-optimally balanced games, especially games that aren't balanced around offense like GG or BB are, and as a player, it's frustrating when those characters aren't the characters you personally enjoy the most. To any meta slaves out there, especially those who aren't competing, get good, not carried.

LordKnight make a video without talking about Chronophantasma challenge. Difficulty: Impossible

For a modern example, I'd go with DNF Duel, Swift Master's 5B is a move that people call broken but is it? That's actually a good debate, I'm really both ways but I gotta play more. I hate calling things broken unless they really are. Compare this to Xrd Johnny Mistfiner? Now that's broken for broken. Hell, even something more simple like Happy Chaos pre patch Fire. (Labcoat 21 Command grab came to mind after writing. Broke)

To me a move is only broken when it removes options to the point it becomes degenerate. Aka, there is basically very little reason to ever not do it. Hitman awakening dp being whiff cancellable and safe if not blocked smelling his butt cheeks is an example, swift master negating neutral with spiral swords while being meter positive doing so, etc.

feel like a big part of your broken vs most people's broken is just the power level of moves. since youve played older games where general power level of moves is way higher, youre less tempted to call things broken unless theyre REALLY absurd?

Does Guilty Gear ever go on sale? I do not really have the funds for a sixty dollar game right now.

if it's on sol

One of the moves I think is the most broken is Baiken's Baku in +r. An utterly character defining move that affects literally every situation you interact with Baiken in, even if she never uses it. It's such a strong and forceful option that she gets access to only after making mistakes to bail herself out, baiting it as certain characters require that you stop offense completely, so you have to think about it literally any time she has 25 meter. And if that wasn't enough for you, if it hits she can dump another 25 meter to put 3 curses on you that basically turn neutral into an instant losing position for you, and stop you from using 1 of your five buttons for FREE. It is a fucking wack ass move and I am so glad they just deleted that shit when Xrd came around.

Imma just say, Android 21's level 3 mix was not broken, it was just annoying

My takeaway from this video is that Arcsys should nerf H-Disc.

I guessed space control was what made these good, mb

Gaunt 2L

zero lv3 buster lmao

Isn’t this whole discussion just “the move isn’t broken, it’s just really good”

The reason why I still consider easy moves that give high reward and are very spammable "broken" is because oftentimes other characters don't have enough mechanics to equal out to those type of characters... Like in dragon Ball fighters for instance you can say that videl has been patched and made viable as much as you want but she still has that level three that's almost completely useless while someone like Vegito trunks or super Saiyan goku for instance can do their level 3 and then top it off with a level 1 in the same combo... In terms of balance Vegito is more broken than videl and that's before we mentioned how easy his 5l can hold neutral compared to videl's 5l... Experience does help learn how to defend and gain more options but they're still more of an advantage of using a well-rounded character like Vegito then the videl so scaling from a fairness meter you can say Vegito is more broken than most characters. The argument that ease of use doesn't equate to brokenness doesn't make sense to me when there are characters who are harder to use that have fewer pros as opposed to the cons... What do we call characters that aren't jokes but have too many flaws to be as viable as other characters?

Imo something broken, to me, is an easy input attack / defensive option that covers far too many areas, effectively all the benefits of a designed attack while simultaneously removing as much human error from it as possible. Think of a move thats + on block mid / corner? Not broken imo. Now this move has a good sized hitbox making it much harder to miss? Doable. Now this + on block, big hitbox attack now moves the person forward so micro dashing , a technique subject to human error, is no longer necessary. This is where the attack becomes all benefits and little to no drawback. Now lets say its fast enough to chain from a specific distance thats difficult to challenge that push block may or may not facilitate? Im sure you see where im going with this. When an attack / defense removes human error, for the most part, while simultaneously covering multiple options/ scenarios at once this move becomes broken. When the reward is completely disproportionate from the effort put in to achieve what its letting you achive. Sols F.S i dont think counts, it can be countered with 6P. Usually moves like this have no counters due to the lack of counter pokes in other fighters. You could argue its too rewarding but... everything in strive lets you 50% someone. Youll see it, because its playerbase will naturally gravitate to the point of mashing it constantly because people will typically choose the path of least resistance. Now i understand your specifications of niche but utterly broken things like Litchi oki, or ribcage but from my personal average gamer experience those are few and far between compared to the generally broken movesets that are used recklessly due to thier overly rewarding nature.

It's simple, really. What makes a move truly broken is when players are able to use it for its REWARD without equivalent RISK. It doesn't matter whether the move itself has imbalanced risk-reward or if players can use other mechanics, advanced techniques, or ATs not intended by the devs (aka. Exploits). If there's any way to substantially reduce the risk while keeping the reward, its objectively a broken move.

This must be a short list of what has been said to be broken because it's the buzz word now

How anyone can call a highly punishable DP broken is beyond me. To be broken it had to have Sol's "plus on whiff" properties it had in 1.0 and even that wasn't fully invul. . . .

Ah UI 5L