We already knew that existed. We've known for years there's at least one episode of Daleks master plan in a private collection but the owner won't hand it over.

Or _Mission to the Unknown._ The article doesn’t specifically state that William Hartnell is in the episode, only that it’s from his era.

Wasn’t episode 4 of The Dalek Masterplan sent to the studio that makes “Blue Peter”? Since they never returned it it’s safe to say that it was stolen.

@@derekp308 The BBC makes _Blue Peter._ The Film would have provided a clip transferred from a film print, not the entire print itself.

@@DrWhoFanJthe article said “First Doctor story featuring the Daleks” definitely didn’t mention Hartnell being in it, only mention how it came from his era so it’s possible that it could be Mission To The Unknown.

I don’t know. Stolen is still stolen. Especially given that the reason why the BBC felt comfortable binning them was because of the way the union treated recorded television shows. That being said, we shouldn’t be arresting people for returning incredibly culturally important things to their creators.

They probably (selfishly) like the ego boost knowing knowing that they own something unique and coveted....

@@philipmason6282 It’s the licence fee payers own this stuff - the BBC are just custodians. Except they’re not - because they chucked it in the bin

Does the BBC even have the power to issue an amnesty when the law has been broken?

@@MatgoStyles The BBC can choose not to press charges regardless of whether the law has been broken. The courts won't pursue it unless the BBC chooses to sue these collectors, which I doubt they would at this point, but there is no guarantee they wouldn't. Issuing an amnesty would ensure these collectors are protected and the BBC could even offer to allow them to keep the original footage if the collectors allow them to borrow the footage temporarily to make a digital copy.

@ philipstephens5960: I thought that too , make a copy return the video to the Person , is a win - win all round .😁

Yes. If they had them and were willing to share just make a copy and send it to the BBC. Everyone wins. Which makes me think that this might just be another rumour wishful thinking or a hoax or just total B.S. You cant get through a year without someone somewhere in the world claiming they have found or own a full missing story or whatever and then it turns out to be complete crap.

Depends on how the original/lost episode was obtained. If an employee stole a reel or two from the archives back in the day, BBC will prosecute for sure.

It woud seem whoever has these episodes won’t part with them unless they get a lot of silver. The bbc isn’t that desperate

We find his gaff and raid the place if he doesn’t

That has always been the Beeb's policy, and not just with Doctor Who. This is the Observer and the Guardian speculating that fear of prosecution is why these collectors aren't giving up their films. It's rubbish. The BBC acknowledge that the film now belongs to the owner and only ask to copy it. “We welcome members of the public contacting us regarding programmes they believe are lost archive recordings, and are happy to work with them to restore lost or missing programmes to the BBC archives” the BBC has stated on more than one occasion

I think it's because these collectors are ex employees, so they fear prosecution for breaking their contract decades ago

Isn't part 4 of the Tenth Planet also lost?

@@thegamingcyberman149 I believe it is indeed lost. Amazing the BBC decided to trash the very first Who regeneration episode, though there is a remaining bit that shows that (not in great condition)

What nonsense. If they make it a crime to VCR episodes that _they destroyed,_ they can go fuck themselves.

Indeed and even if the BBC was hell bent on prosecuting they really have no legal foot to stand on.

@@cactusjackNV It's Britain. You don't have rights. Ask trans people. Or the Irish.

It says the first Dr, so it would be The Dalek Master Plan. :)

@@AveburyEddie They only said that they'd love it if Fury from the Deep were recovered. Why does it only have to be first Doctor stories? I, too, would love it if Fury from the Deep were recovered. The animated version was crap. I hate this second guessing/modernising old stories. They do stupid things like enlarging the size of areas, which robs it of the claustrophobia of the original (a case of the confined studios benefitting the story). They can't even work out body proportions with odd looking overlong arms. Then they give Troughton green eyes, instead of his blue eyes (what shows that up even more is that the animated title Troughton is the correct blue). Even Debbie's eyes are the wrong colour too (she also had blue eyes, not brown). Even looking at background characters whilst a conversation is going on in the foreground you see the "twitching" in the background - it's so distracting. And don't get me started on the Master "Wanted" posters.

@@roberthaynes8830 Ha Ha ! Its not guessing on my part. Its known that its the first Doctor storys that have been found, it even says so in this video youtube video, as well :)

Fury from the deep is so overrated. I've seen it twice, and the second time was torture. The story that followed it The wheel in space is my favourite Dr Who story, and is far better, with the cybermen at their most threatening.

@joeking5310 Bruh The Wheel in Space was my least favorite of his era but to each his own. Glad it's enjoyable to some

I agree 100% with the sentiment that some greed is in play here. It has nothing to do with legal action as the BBC would have no legal action it could take. The fear of legal action perhaps but there is no evidence that a crime was committed here.

Don't call him Shirley.

We have to be careful about using the phrase ‘junked’. Firstly, the very concept of replaying broadcasts simply wasn’t thought of as a thing. Moreover, there were contracts in place that may well have defined if repeats were even allowed. Storing this media was also physically bulky and required special conditions. It was just impossible for every show ever to have been saved. And whilst we are Doctor Who fans who feel especially slighted by this approach. We have to remember 1000s of shows are missing. As people have pointed out, Top of the Pops, Morecambe & Wise Show, Dads’ Army…. Etc are all missing, as well as shows that we probably never heard of. There’s no need for an amnesty. The BBC are not going to sue anyone. At worst they might sack someone who took their property whilst employed, but I doubt there are any 85yo employees of the BBC cowering in fear. Finally, you really really don’t understand the collector mentality. You have the only recording of episode 3 of Power of the Daleks? That’s potentially thrilling! Why would you give that up? I’m not defending these people, but it’s easy for those of us who have nothing to believe those who have something should give it up.

@@stephenpalmer9375 I was going to make the same points. Television was still viewed by the BBC management (and, indeed, by broadcasters internationally) as essentially ephemeral: you watch it today then move. You don't go back to view an old show again any more than you go back to read last week's newspaper. Contracts with performers typically prohibited repeats (but, on the other side of the balance, also didn't offer any residuals in the event of reuse) so, once international sales were complete, the shows had no further commercial value. In addition to the above, the BBC had no mandate (or budget) to routinely archive broadcast material. The tape reels were bulky (by the 60s the BBC was using 2" video tape), heavy and costly. It made sense to wipe and reuse the tape--after all, that was one of the advantages of magnetic tape! All shows were 'junked' up to the 1970s, it wasn't just Doctor Who. Who is prominent only because the show has continued in production and has a fan base interested in the show's history. Even today, in the age of digital creation and storage, the BBC does not maintain a full archive of its output. For shows 'of no lasting importance' (eg game shows) only a representative sample is retained. I handle media every day as I work for a media distribution company and every boxset of archived series, whether it's Dad's Army, The Liver Birds... or Doctor Who carry a similar tag; "Some early episodes no longer exist in the archive.".

@@MrPaulMorris I just feel in our community there’s this attitude that the bbc somehow was careless or in some kind of dereliction of its duty because so much who is missing. It feeds into some other less savoury narratives that are prevalent online around the BBC that may or may not have basis in fact or substance. I think we should rather feel super fortunate that we as a community have telesnaps and fans that recorded all the audio, or even took film of broadcasts on their TVs

@@stephenpalmer9375 I think the choice by the BBC to describe the episodes that weren't preserved as 'lost' feeds into the perception that it was somehow accidental; "Oops! Now where did I put those episodes?" rather than a deliberate and, at the time, completely reasonable business decision. As you say, we are phenomenally lucky to have so many pre-1970 episodes. If the BBC had been more rigorous in following its own policies, none would exist. Even the 16 mm export prints shouldn't exist--that they do is largely due to the failure of overseas broadcasters to likewise fail to follow their contractual obligations. After the contracted number of airings one of three things was supposed to happen: the print should be passed to the next broadcaster in the region (a cost saving measure for smaller/poorer countries--by waiting they got a cheaper price), certified as destroyed locally or returned to London for destruction. As it was, luckily enough, nobody was particularly interested in these prints so they were often tossed in a cupboard and forgotten about for a few decades, some ended up in private hands and some were mistakenly added to the BBC's archive of film material on return to London instead of being destroyed. The BBC should stop pussyfooting around; the episodes were not 'lost', they were discarded because it both made sense economically and was the standard practice. Instead of mourning the 'lost' episodes, they should celebrate the fact that so many survived against all odds and that, due to the copyright-breaching efforts of early fans, audio recordings exist of all episodes. Incidentally, few, if any, of the copies in private hands were 'stolen'. At worst, the current owners are the beneficiaries of breaches of contract. The recordings (most commonly in the form of 16mm prints) had generally been consigned to the waste and either been nabbed en route as souvenirs (which is where the contractual issues arise as employees were prohibited from removing even items scheduled for destruction) or recovered from the skips (by what our American cousins like nowadays to call 'dumpster divers') by which point the BBC would generally be considered to have relinquished ownership of the physical media--albeit retaining the intellectual property rights in the contents. As a further complication, broadcast content wasn't even covered by copyright law in the UK before 1965 (from memory, I haven't rechecked the dates of the amended legislation).

@@MrPaulMorris Yeah, I hear you. Framing them as 'lost' at best sounds like overcompensating for something they don't need to. Sadly it also suggests that they might someday be 'found'. Which I think gives us false hope. I have no doubt there's a couple of reels out there, but there's not going to be a sudden announcement that 'Marco Polo' has been found, or similar.

Yeah, that’s pretty much what they did with episode 2 of Rein Of Terror, that thing is so low quality it’s like a camera pointed at a TV screen but at least whoever found it had the decency to hand it over and be nice to the other fans of the franchise they claim to love

@@mrcritical6751Well that's actually how they did create film stock - by pointing a camera at a TV screen lol.

Have you watch it completely as the stills etc it was pretty boring maybe at the time was groundbreaking but it really doesn’t hold up I feel like if it was found it wouldn’t even be popular an animation would work miles better

Marco Polo was great. Not groundbreaking but great costumes, great acting and great cliffhangers

It has to be. We have all of the Daleks, all of the Dalek's Invasion of Earth and all of the Chase. There are no other Dalek stories with missing episodes from the Hartnell era. Unless it's Mission to the Unknown. Which, technically could fit the parameters. But even then that's basically a prologue teaser episode for the Dalek Master Plan and is largely considered part of the serial.

Are they full adventures, or just single episodes I wonder? The article isn't very clear. If it's the rest of 'The Dalek Masterplan' I would be very happy with that. As for the animations, I can't say I like them that much. They seem very jerky.

@@terrystewart1973the article implies they are individual episodes

I believe Disney are only focusing on New Who, Classic isn’t coming to Disney+ and America isn’t getting any of The Whoniverse stuff

Yeah i don't think it's going happen.

The cavemen also examines "a fantasy in real life" to explore facts in early evolution things like no developed memory, worship of fire, etc

You'd think so, but it's well-established law that taking materials someone has thrown out (the example often used is of taking them from a skip someone's hired) is still theft.

Of course no one has been prosecuted. I think what actually stops this is that as I understand it, the Beeb won't actually pay anyone for the returned media, they will just get a thankyou and a trip around the BBC. Which is totally fine. But the Collector will feel they have paid for something that they are being then asked to just give up.

There would be a difference there. Your friend didn't take BBC recordings, he made them himself from the TV.

I agree I was just about to write its Jakes not what he said !! I have the boxset of the 70`s Sykes it would be great if there where some black and white episodes found of Eric(Ricky) and Hattie not forgetting Peter of course lol. I`ve seen some on you tube. I`d like to be able to see the orginal version of the episode Stranger later remade with guest star Peter Sellers etc.

How this bespectacled imbecile has never even heard of her is astonishing!! I object to 'wals' making videos where a certain amount of authority is needed during the narration, to say nothing of some basic British TV/film knowledge. The fact this mong has clearly no idea who Hattie was, but can probably name all the actors from 'Glee' or some other American dross (and uses words such as 'Awesome', 'sucks', 'dude', 'cool' and 'goddamn'...) not only makes any viewer with half a brain, suicidal, it spells imminent doom for the future of mankind.

The BBC have no moral leg to stand on anymore - After the hideous secret that was Jimmy Savile, Jill Dando's assassination and (compared to those two incidents) the trivial but appalling misinformation and production of history programmes for children that teach them ahistorical nonsense, propaganda and drivel..... which they are being prosecuted for, thank god!

Exactly. They likely want tens of millions of pounds per lost episode, which nobody will give out.

This isn't why collectors don't return things. They don't tend to care much about having one of a kind footage - they actually care more about the film recordings themselves. For film collectors, it's about the quality of the film, the picture quality, the art of showing them, etc - there's a pretty good episode of the missing episodes podcast about it, which is really quite enlightening: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fpyijLed05nWn3U.html

@@theoutcastboi That doesnt explain their reluctance to return them. If all they care about is the quality of the film then why would they not want to return them as that is irrelevant to the quality of the film itself. If anything returning them benefits the quality of the film as it is proffesionally cleaned and repaired so the highest possible quality copy can be made.

Exactly. It's greed. That's the answer. They prob want millions of pounds for the episode and then who knows if they'd honor the transaction.

@@josephfilm73 That's not actually the case - most collectors don't actually care about the content they've got, but rather the quality of the film prints - they're into film as an art, showing films in old machinery in their home cinemas, not hoarding missing material. Their reluctance is usually about the film itself, as in the film tape, not the actual content on the film - they're worried they won't get them back after the material is digitally scanned. That, and most of these guys are in their 80s, and have a lot of more pressing concerns, such as health - this is likely the case with this collector, since we've been told they've "got bigger fish to fry". If you've got serious health issues, additional stress regarding your tapes isn't something you need. Assuming all these film collectors are greedy and being hostile towards them, despite the fact you've never met these people and don't actually know their reasonings, isn't going to help us get collectors onside.

And mission to the unknown the prelude

Aye, Kevin Stoney as Mavic Chen was phenomenally good casting. Not to mention it features Sarah Kingdom, Katarina and Bret Vyon played by Nicholas Courtney in his first role in Doctor Who before becoming the iconic and beloved Brigadierr Lethbridge-Stewart.

@@tim04 true… but apparently some people just count that as part of the overall story

@@tom_4615if mission to the unknown is found a lot of people would be pissed 😂 like that uni group remade it anyway so would be a pointless find

the abdominal snowmen is the most recent animation. i think they will doi thatb when the next animation comes out.

Abominable.

@@TheWeepingDalek Yeah, and the The Underwater Menace animation releases on Monday, so I wonder if The Abominable Snowmen might be added to iPlayer then.