You can enjoy problematic art (or media) and problematic artists. The challenge is be honest with yourself and others and do not defend the problems or dismiss them.

This is one of those dilemmas that will never be satisfactorily resolved, but is really important to grapple with! Great discussion!

"You will think less of the art, when you know the artist." ~ George Bernard Shaw

This applies to everything, not just art. This applies to fim directors, chefs, newscasters, architects, high school teachers.... Would you eat at a restaurant owned by a man who beats his wife? Would you buy music from a rapper who said "slavery was not that bad"? Would you watch films from a director who sexually molested his daughter?

Good old rule a zoology teacher once told my class “Stop seeing the world as black or white. Everyone and everything lives in shades of grey. Accepting that will allow you to see the shadows of beauty and horrible that can exist side by side. An angel’s trumpet is a beautiful plant to see but ingesting one single flower will send you straight to the hospital. Such is the nature of life.” One is not necessarily bad if we appreciate good art by bad people as long as we acknowledge and abhor the bad things they did.

I think i'm most comfortable with the asterisk approach, because some artists who did horrible things were still influential and have to be part of the art story we tell. But I also tend not to idolize or revere artists, partially because that's not really my nature and partially because they are also whole complete people and not "good art" or "bad things" alone. I think work by people who do bad things should be accessible and the wholest truth about them should be available. But also, fuck Gauguin.

I thought of J.K. Rowling and it made me sad

Such a nice example of why ethics and aesthetics merge into each other. Thank you for all the wonderful work!

HP Lovecraft super racist and antisemetic, but I really like that he was one of the fathers if not the father of cosmic horror/ cthulhu and friends. (Though I'm 90% sure his racism, antisemetism, and xenophobia played a huge role in inspiring his works)

Something I think about is how, say, smashing a DVD of Annie Hall doesn't really do anything, but boycotting a new Woody Allen movie might. That is to say, there's a big difference between personal consumption and institutional support when it comes to artists who do bad things. But, then again, the personal and the institutional are not always black and white.

I think this is a part of a broader question of human forgiveness and generosity even to those who don’t deserve it. It’s difficult, but I believe that we should strive to “hate the sin, not the sinner.” We’re all just people.

I've had to learn how to separate the artist from the art, and its difficult because we tend to instinctively associate the two. But i'm glad I learned because it's given me the ability to 1) prevent myself from getting too attached, and 2) allowed me to focus on what the art says to me and how to look at it. Having a complex and bittersweet relationship with the art takes a lot of the "magic" out of it, but I prefer it most of the time because it keeps me from getting too distracted.

"You can make quality art and do bad things. But you should know, there will be consequences when those bad things are revealed and that you'll lose the privilege of a less clouded reading of your work when that happens." This whole video is absolute gold.

Ghandi was a racist. Martin Luther King Jr. had multiple affairs. If we demand that every "problematic" person go away, the list of people we're allowed to admire is going to be very short indeed, especially if we judge historical figures by the morals of today.

If you start digging through anyone’s past, you’re going to find things you don’t like or agree with or are not acceptable today. You’re going to end up not being able to like anything made by anyone.

talk all you want there is no way around it but when you appreciate the work it melts away

I want to work in museums after graduation, and every time I have one of these "difficult art conversations" with family or friends, I refer them to this channel. Thank you guys for both dispelling the myths and engaging with the complexities of the capital-A Art World. I live for this channel!

I like Heidegger's philosophy, but he was a Nazi. I love Picasso's paintings, but he was a sexist. I really like Mayhem's music, but they were criminals. I think that when problematic artists make art we should firstly focus on the product, not the producer. We should also be aware of their misconduct, but isn't their misconduct a huge part of their influences that are being laid on tape/canvas/pages/film for us to enjoy? Plus, if you like their works, you just like their works, you're not their friends and you shouldn't be judged upon your aesthetic values, which are not the same with your moral values.

Have you ever found that you might dislike a piece of art but then discover that you really respect the artist when you find out more about their views and life?.

This is the fourth video from this channel that I'm showing to my Intro to Art class. I tried as best as I could to provide a variety of sources, but these are providing EXACTLY what I need to talk about. They provide a great starting point of discussion. Thank you!

If we only tell history of those who never did anything that caused outrage, human history can be summed up as follows, "___." If I ever become a famous artist put an asterisk beside my name with the footnote, "He was flawed, not as bad as some, worse than others, he corrected what he should, and reveled in the rest."

It's one thing to call out evil and it's another to understand it and realize it's potential is also in you.

Yes, I can ignore the crap an artist does in order to enjoy his/her art. I think the only time it doesn't work is when the shitheadedness takes an actual part in the art itself. Then it gets really hard, and sometimes I can't.

Hiyo Miazaki, the creator of studio ghibli, was not a very good father. He walked out of the premiere of his sons first directed film “Tales from Earthsea” and was just generally not supportive of his sons work. Despite this, millions of people, including myself, love and cherish his films as a part of their childhood. Learning this has not caused me to look at his films in a bad light.

I love that you included the footnote that we are actively supporting things in ways we don't even consider. As always, well thought out discussions with amazing research. Thank you.

Well-written, well-spoken. Glad you guys tackled this issue, it's pertinent in this day and age.

For me it's Bono. He's so very problematic on one level and I cannot accept how he is part of the problem in many ways, but I will never stop loving U2 and his power as a performer/singer/lyricist. Damn you, Bono. I won't be buying anything from him, but I can't just ignore the emotional landscapes he has painted for me.

Thank you for this. I have a feeling that this will never stop being a dilemma, in art and in the wider world, and I really appreciate your thoughtfulness on the matter.

Thank you ! What a great video that reflects so much feeling in all aspects of all content that’s being made now and in the past , art, books, movies, TV shows, KZfaq ect . It takes a thoughtful person to view content from all aspects - for what the thing is on its own and the direct effect of the creator / actor that can alter someone’s feelings ( similar to how relationships evolve)

that was absolutely stunning in how you engage thought, always staying neutrally cheerful yet still adding that underlying tiny pinprick of irony. I fall more and more in love with this channel every day.

Content aside, I really love and appreciate the attention to repetitive horizontal lines in this video.

The KZfaq channel Mother's Basement also did a video on this that I think expands on this dilemma in different scopes and spheres of media. It's called Good Art by Bad People.

To me art is a personal experience. Looking at it, creating it, purchasing it, etc. I don’t have to follow the collective morality of what is “right” and what is “wrong”. I decide what resonates with me and I confront everything that comes with that. If an artist has done something hurtful in their lives I’ll acknowledge it, but it won’t necessarily change how much I appreciate their work. It’s like would you hate the meal of a master chef even if they were a complete asshole? No of course not, if the food’s good it’s good. I may feel upset that they chose foolish decisions in their life and it sucks to dim the light on someone that you want to admire in full. But part of that feeling I realize is narcissism. You just want to be able to prove to people that you only like the “best stuff”.. because it represents who you are to the world. But It’s not the case and it’s never the case. You’re more than your tastes.. you are more nuanced than that. Your actions speak louder than anything you like. I know many people interested in the lives of serial killers. Does that make them bad people? Absolutely not. it’s just a subject matter they have chose to take interest in. Until they actually do something bad will I judge them for it at all. And if we constantly dismiss artists who have done problematic things in the world we also close ourselves off from learning from them. We can’t keep pretending the world is some picture perfect place. All of us contain the capacity for good and evil.. it doesn’t matter who you are. It’s better that we acknowledge the ugly truth about some artists while recognizing the good they have done as well. That’s just my 2 cents. I have a lot more I could say, but I’ll leave it at that.

I've seen quite a few video on this subject and this was by far the most informative and insightful. Nice work!

The Art Assignment, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE?! How am I just now finding this channel?! Excellent video on a really interesting topic. Nicely done.

When did artists become role models? Throughout most of history they were just the servants of the rich and powerful. I suspect it's an idea that emerged in the 19th century along with that of the romantic genius. Since many artists actively opposed fascism in the 20th century (including Picasso) we seem to have come to expect a lot from them. Is it fair to hold them to a higher standard than everyone else?

Amazing video^^ I also feel that issue gets more complicated when the artist is alive. Because even if you decide to appreciate only the art and not the artist, you can't control how the artist might perceive that appreciation. If people flock to Woody Allen's movies, it is very plausible for him to think he has been forgiven.

What's funny is this video completely dances around the real issue and just reinforces the problem. The question isn't "Should we separate the art from the artist" it's "How should we feel about people who did/said bad things?" Human beings are very sophisticated living creatures, that grow and evolve. No 2 people grow alike, and due to how many factors contribute to who a person becomes you can never predict what a person will be like. Because of this, it is very important to look at people subjectively. It's important to understand that while an individual may be problematic or imperfect, that doesn't mean they can't possitively contribute to society or general individuals in possitive ways. If we began cutting the possible influence away from people just because they do bad things, we would inevitably end up deplatforming everyone. Because a system in which you deplatform people like that will always lend itself to abuse. So what is the answer? The answer is to look at EVERYTHING a person does. Praise the good as well as condemning the bad. How is ANYONE to know what's acceptable if they are scolded for all they say and do? That, and don't be so full of yourself. Learn how to not lock yourself in a sociopolitical box. Learn to keep an open mind. Learn that your own feelings don't dictate the greater picture.

Thanks for this one! I have been wondering about this a lot and you brought some clarity to the subject for me, or rather made me feel less alone in how confusing it is.

Considering that morality is subjective and changes so much it's pretty much impossible to be a "good person" outside of the context of a certain place in time. In fact I'd consider the idea of artists needing to conform you or your society's values incredibly delusional.

I've been watching art assignment for last 5 days, i think I'm learning at least something about ART.

i saw the thumbnail and thought "ah they've seen nanette then"

I don't think it's useful to hide the negative aspects of these creators. In my opinion I think it's more enlightening to understand the artist behind the art and that doesn't diminish depending on whether the person had positive or negative views. People are jaded, the world isn't black and white and it's artwork or creative endeavors in general which often reveal this. The fact that we can understand the negative aspects of an artist's personality is evidence to me that people are not going to be swayed or influenced into those same negative behaviors just by appreciating the artist's work. They may not be the best person in the world, but you can still see meaning or value in a piece of their work and that is because they are human. People will have their own views and beliefs before seeing an art piece which will determine how they see it. Artworks and the artists behind them can reveal a lot about history or just life from another perspective. Shunning that away would be immature and naive. They still exist either way. I think it's understanding these negatives and embracing that they simply exist is how we learn from it and avoid repeating these behaviors in the future.

Absolutely beautifully done video on a topic I’ve pondered and questioned for a long time now. Really eloquently handled and while I’m still not sure it did give me some insight.

Show me a person who isnt problematic at all...

I like a lot of the points you make and I personally agree that art should be viewed separately but I also think educating is important. We also shouldn't separate what the artist has done and not highlight it when we're talking about it. I also won't hold it against someone if they don't want to support an artist for something they've done.

As part of my MA I wrote a presentation about the Eric Gill exhibition at Ditchling Museum in England. I think it's really important that you can enjoy a piece of art even if the creator was awful, but I also think it's important that the awfulness of the artist isn't hidden.

Sarah, this is so fascinating and important. Thank you.

I was distracted by your Picassoesque stripey shirt! Yes, I know he was a misogynist, still I am attracted to the raw energy in some of his work. I recently had a show of my cancer paintings. Perhaps they would be rejected because of the subject matter. Instead the paintings opened a dialogue. People shared intimate stories. The paintings became more than pretty and acceptable. P.S. Most people might find things about my life questionable.

Earth without Art is just Eh

This was thoughtful and wonderfully done.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" "Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone" Wise words. Be guided accordingly. By the way, if any of you "good folks" have a Picasso that you'd like to throw out, please give it to this poor sinner.

Media and Social Media are playing a big role in this. I don't like this, it contributes to the continuous suffocation of any prominent art collective there is, like any artist is a saint...you can't expect that. We'll have to get used to problematic artists as they have been part and are still part of our society and are shaping it.

Kanye West for me. Love his art and design work but I sometimes hate the things he says 🤦🏾‍♂️

Thank you for demonstrating the blissfulness of ignorance. I see each work a part of the artist leaving parts of his or her love behind.

I'm addicted to your channel tbh....can't resist myself when i see a video from you

This is excellent.

Arglglg, yeah, this is a tough one to grapple with. Especially since it's pretty much impossible to not find something unpleasant about everyone (including ourselves; we do all make mistakes, alas). I do like how you put it -- art has always been a participatory and interpretive medium, we are always part of the equation, and just as we find/create meaning (or not) in as well as pass judgement on the art we experience so too then must we with the artist. Artist intent, the artist's actions, and what the art is invoking, and what you see/feel in it are all important in the continual dance we have with the art itself. "The art should be viewed alone!" or "It should forever be rejected!" are extremes that serve neither the art nor ourselves well. We humans can be messy in many ways, so I guess it should be no surprise that our art, and relations to it and the messy humans who made it, can be delightfully messy as well. Which, in a way, makes art all that much more special, doesn't it? If art is about evoking that which is the human spirit within us, then this just adds to it. As you note, the key is to engage with purpose. Very well put together and thought provoking episode! Also some lovely cats. :D

This is absolutely a well-thought out analysis! If this got presented as an essay in an exam, it'll be graded with an A+ for sure

I love how you analyze things. Thank you for your videos. They are sooo great. I will stop now, but you do good work...

Thank you for this - you've been able to articulate some of the feelings I've struggled with a lot recently.

I don't like the way how people abuse the good story or background of an artist to strengthen their art and completely ignore it when the artist has done something bad or in questionable circumstances. Of course it's up to you how you judge art and you probably doing exactly this subconsciously, but I see it in a lot of arguments about artworks and it bothers me. I know I am more on the "just the artwork" side, but the inconsistent way how artworks are highlighted is one of the reasons why people have so much trouble with discussing art. Great video, I love the careful look on our perception.

This channel is absolutely amazing!

AAAAAAH THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO !! some of my inspirations turned out to be toxic people and that-- really hurted yet i still enjoy their art !

Very well done. I'm glad you had that line about scientific knowledge in there too. It highlights the connection between the knowledge created by the arts and ethics. I wonder how formalists theorists would respond who don't find value in artistic narrative and can't logically make that connection between the creation of aesthetic value and ethics. In the case of deceased artists I personally think the astrix approach is important because the study of art is so closely linked to our human narrative and the fact that certain cultures worshipped a horrible human being who made beautiful art is part of that narrative. The way a culture respons to a cat being let out of the bag is part of the context in which the art was produced. We just need to make sure art historians in 500 years don't identify a pattern of worship for the odious in us. Thank you.

THANKS for THIS! This is obviously a very difficult topic but your insights here are very well stated... We definitely should NOT damn all art into oblivion just because the artist was not a very good person... but its really important to try to take as much of the truth of the sordid past into account while also trying to enjoy the work on its own merits... Awesome Work!

Again, this was so damn good. You're like a friend saying, "I know what you're thinking, but hear me out..."

Thanks Sarah + Team! I really enjoyed this.

Hum? I hear you! Most of the art I buy I am very concerned about the story of the artist - but because I am not rich it is easy for me - most of my art is from local and young artists - but come to think of it, we found out some troubling things about a local artist and used the artists painting to catch the dripping motor oils from under our our car in the garage! It was too painful to look at the art! Love these funky videos! Steve aka The Talking Fly...

This is a hard topic, but one that deserves attention. As you said at the end, not only artists but scientists; do we have to forgive them for their black side just because they had a bright side? I mean, everyone has both sides, all of us have taken good and bad decistions, and we have affected possitively and negatively other people. I think we can forgive, but never forget some attitudes, sure, their art may be incredible, but that can't justify their actions. They can be judged and they should, because you've got that information.

Thank you for this video. It was great to start thinking about art differently. I never thought about that. I always look at art without considering the artist life, but I should actually consider the artist persona.

Love the way you closed the video! I'm actively supporting you with this comment and with my thumbs up. Great topic! :)

I feel this problem when listening to the beatles, John lennon was an abusive husband who misstreeted his first wife, cheated on her and abandoned his enfant child, he also cheated on his second wife yoko, and was a very unstable guy, paul mccartney cheated on his girlfriend, George harrison cheated on his wife with ringo's wife, and all of them had some prety big problems with ideas of the 60's regarding gender role and drug use, so what i do is to think about all of this while listening to their music, think of them as flawed humans, they did some good and some bad, but they are fine artists, never ignore how messed up they were, but never deny the fact that their music is so great

Yeah this is an incredible channel and I’m really grateful for all the work and thought that goes into it. For me, Hannah Gadsby shone light on several paths of thoughts that can be difficult to face, but ultimately I think it would be a disservice to turn a blind eye to them. You’ve helped me walk a little down one of those uncomfortable paths today, and offered a very considered take on it. Thanks!

watched this for a class but i end up enjoying it and it widen my view on this thank you so much!

Great piece! Super balanced! Love your perspective - keep it coming :)

Do u own a pair of nikes or iPad because we all know there made in the best of conditions

basically almost every Abstract Expressionist really

Thank you for this beautiful piece of discussion

Ever since seeing Nanette I was hoping for an Art Assignment video on this topic, and here it is!

I personally actually like the art more if I know the person behind it was/is kinda twisted. The the crazy and troubled story behind it brings so many more layers to the art. And if you think about it, the most genius artists have always been insane

This is interesting! As an artist that has recently taken up KZfaq, I'm trying to have a transparent and honest relationship with my audience, however, through the process of filming and editing, I am forging a, still developing, character of myself. It's a learning curve to see how how to be honest, yet still create interesting stories that people can learn from. Thoughts??

Thanks for this. It is something that can be carried over to other art forms as well. A very good critique. Keep on doing this. You have presented a really important point of view. You're perception is valuable.

Love this video. I really appreciate the complex thoughts. I appreciate the moderate approach.

I’m a bipolar artist and an artist friend of mine kept encouraging me to be open about my illness. I’ve always taken art in without external context. I usually don’t title my pieces so as to allow the viewer to come to their own conclusion. But, he gives his works brilliant titles that make me appreciate his work more. Since coming out as an artist with bipolar I’ve had countless people tell me they have it as well, artist and non artist alike. That’s been an interesting journey. I too struggle with knowing disturbing things about any artist, musician, actor, etc. it’s like a gum ball machine, one ball is good and another bad and yes, I often wish I could put the cat back in the bag, and I love cats!!!

I should personally consider a work of art to be a separate entity from the author once it reaches a certain degree of maturity. It’s literally “brain child” that learns to walk and live independently of its creator. That way, we enjoy art without endorsing the values of the artist, yet by the same measure we can honour the artist by honouring his art

This is a fantastic video on death of the artist. I still share it often. Thank you.

Finding out that a photographer sleeps with their models changes how I view the photo.

This came into my recommended after watching surviving R Kelly.

Wagner is a VERY controversial figure in the classical music world. I'm so glad you mentioned him

Thanks for the vid. Always great.

Well researched and handled. Eloquent treatment and diction :) Thanks for opening my mind.

The artist does not own his or her art, he or she is but the projector of an idea that inhabits object reality. It is also a conversation on the subjective picture of an objective reality. And if we got rid of every artist whose don’t something or said something offensive we would have no art.

This definitely reminds me of a conundrum that popped up a short while back on tumblr specifically, where people werent sure how to handle people and content creators they used to love, turning out to have done bad/questionable things. And especially some cases where there were known artists on tumblr who got big backlash over things like transphobic depictions of characters, blatant trans exclusionary rhetoric, and a case or two of not knowing how to draw PoC, and thus coming off as very white washey. Now some of those artists can be more forgivable than others, but context definitely matters, and maybe each of those cases you'd unfollow, block, possibly even report the blogger, because of their actions, and I can definitely agree with that action. But if you love the art, and want to find ways of either reclaiming it, or sharing it, taking inspiration from it, while still keeping the artists themselves at an arms length, that's all fair. A lot of it depends on personal experience, and what your boundaries are on how bad something is. A lot of people can really learn how to be thoughtful consumers, and decide how they want to consume things, while still being mindful of the context they're created.

Very interesting, Love the insight! Thanks

Your explanaition on duality is perfect.

For my fellow people in 2020: Makes me think about people who liked Shane Dawson documentaries and Jeffree Star makeup but feel like they can't "cancel" these artists because they want to enjoy those things. There are ways around not contributing to their wealth. Adblocking KZfaq videos and buying secondhand makeup (unopened if possible). Another option is alternative content/items. There are many smaller creators that make conspiracy theory videos. Look up the subjects you're interested in for alternative options, I can guarantee that they are there. As for makeup, it's even easier, there are many brands out there with just as pigmented and creamy formulas. Personally I enjoy NYX cosmetics, they are cheaper and have a great variety of colours. J* tried to cease and desist a "dupe" of his palette but in my opinion, dupes exist because you can't copyright colours.

I think that this is not a problem for me, as the art I enjoy and view mostly is art from loads of centuries ago, to understand the social climate of the time that can be is seen in the art, or to explore an idea that the art explores that reflects within me. These two things rely on the “beholders share” of the art, so it would be hard for me to look up to a singular artist and credit them with any emotion I felt looking at the art

Your'e really awesome, I love your videos - keep up the great work!!

I love this series ❤️ please continue