451 Mopar Stroker for Momma's Mopar 1973 Charger hits the Dyno! From Lucore Automotive

Рет қаралды 13,578

4 жыл бұрын

It's been a long time coming but it's finally time to do the break in and dyno tuning of 73ChargerChic Katrina Bell's new 451 Stroker! We are beyond excited to get this new motor ready to rock for the 2020 car show and race season, that's right not only does she own and drive this 1973 Dodge Charger but she's in a ladies only racing league the Horsepower Honeys! With this coming year, she's bringing a bit more grunt to the fight!
Starting out as a 400 cubic inch 1976 truck motor the smog era block was machined and stuffed full of 440 Mopar parts to increase the total displacement to 451 inches! With the 440 crank cut down to the 400 journal size, 440 longer rods, and a set of lighter weight Icon forged pistons not only have we picked up over 50 inches of displacement but also a MUCH lighter rotating assembly over stock!
The heads we are using in this build are nothing super special, cast iron "Motor Home" heads with new stock size valves, hardened exhaust seats, springs/retainers/keepers, and decked to make sure the surface is true and flat. Some light bowl blending was also done, but no porting or "trickery" so we can truly see what these basically stock heads can do.
The folks at Performance Research Inc in Columbus Ohio have done a lot of engine work with us in the past, in addition to having an excellent engine dyno in the back of the building for break in and tuning purposes. This big block mopar while no where near the most powerful thing they have built and run it's still an interesting project for them!
So, here we go the honest straight forward 451 Stroker Kit dyno video that for some reason we couldn't find anywhere! We chose to include a lot of the banter in this video as well to help with the backstory and show people more of the true dyno room experience. Hopefully you all enjoy it!
As always, thank you to all our new subscribers for jumping on board and to all of our continued support from those who have been here with us the past year! We're just a small independent mechanic shop here in central Ohio just outside the Columbus / Dublin area showing off a little of what we work on.
More ahead for this project as she takes her classic american muscle car cruising, drag racing, to car shows, and very likely on at least one long road trip!

Пікірлер: 137

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

Can't tell you how excited we are to finally get this thing fired up and running! We do some back story and explanation of the 451 Stroker build before getting down to the actual rumbly part around 23:56 into the video if you want to skip you are welcome to! Otherwise, please stick around and enjoy the video!

@MP-pz9oe 2 жыл бұрын

This is REALLY the most overlooked of the big blocks . With the new trick flow heads , Watch out ... That big bore is an incredible blessing !

@LucoreAuto 2 жыл бұрын

Being honest even WE had never heard of something like this or considered doing a "B series" build until discovering the 451 setup. It certainly has huge potential, and even with the upgrades that were done after this video there's still a ton of power left on the table

@WiSeNhEiMeR-1369 Жыл бұрын

HOWdy LOCORE 🙂 DYNO DAZE = Love It !!! Thanks COOP the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA ...

@cameronmackenzie4410 Жыл бұрын

When I milled my heads, I had to shim the rocker shafts to get my geometry correct. Most non-mopar folks don't know what im talking about, but rocker arm geometry makes a huge difference. Also found it ran happiest with my ignition timing around 18* initial, all in @2800rpm 37* total. Of course that will depend on many factors and require some testing as every engine and vehicle are different....but wow what a difference once it's dialed in right.

@garylucier6817 2 жыл бұрын

Sweet looking, sweet sounding! Mopar B-Block from a mile away!

@dynodon100 4 жыл бұрын

If you used motor home heads make sure you have the head gaskets to match as they are different.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

Indeed! Very good to point out, we haven't mentioned that on any of the videos!

@79tazman 2 жыл бұрын

Motorhome heads make excellent boat anchors or great to keep big doors open on windy days other than that they are useless if your going to use a factory head use a 915 or 906 casting head and stay away from the 70's 346 heads they are same as the motorhome head great anchors

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

79tazman If you put out the money to buy 915’s and rebuild and port them you’ve got trick-flows bought and paid for with money left over.

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

79tazman For your info they made 452 motorhome heads too. Properly ported 452’s flow better than 906’s with 2.19 inch intake valves. Been there, done that.

@electrix6751 2 жыл бұрын

@@79tazman Nonsense. They can be made to work. It all depends how much horsepower you want to make before dismissing the 452 "motorhome" heads as "excellent boat anchors."

@garyhoward55 Жыл бұрын

A good set of 906 heads might do wonders for this engine.

@LucoreAuto Жыл бұрын

Ohhhh keep watching lots more since then 😉

@Loki13M 3 жыл бұрын

Professional Mechanics have the patience of Saints. I would have smashed my head into a wall about the time ya strapped the 3rd carb to it. =X

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

Some of them most certainly do, but there's something oddly calming with a lot of this stuff. It's kind of like a painting or sculpture you are making take shape one piece at a time. Well, provided you have all the DAMN PIECES and the DAMN PIECES fit! ;)

@Loki13M 3 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto I can see it being a kind of zen thing ... if you know wth yer doing at least, and have all the parts yes. =) For me wrenching is more like High School finals all over again. I can do the work no problem, but I gotta have a manual or look it up online for anything slightly complex. Getting better as the years go by but each new vehicle is it's own set of headaches and I don't have enough experience that things stick with me very well. About the only vehicle I can work on without much need for a manual is the 70' to 80' Camaro, I have owned 5 over the years and a 74 was my first street car.

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

I love the rear wheel openings on 71-74 dodge chargers. With the right rim offset you can cram a lot of street tire under them!

@LucoreAuto 2 жыл бұрын

Oh for sure! Plenty of potential for big tires and lots of mean looking traction... once the motor is done and in the dang car!

@Torquemonster440 3 жыл бұрын

More than likely valve float... or depending on which casting those heads are it could just be out of steam past 5k rpm. Motorhome engines were not exactly designed with high RPM performance in mind.. but most likely, a valve spring issue

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

Motor home castings are the same as regular production heads. The only thing are a extra row of cooling holes for the spark plugs.

@Torquemonster440 2 жыл бұрын

@@cjbert6790 you are 100% correct. I was just thinking by possibly some strange chance ?? But yes, It did wind up being a valve spring issue like I suspected.

@donellmuniz590 3 жыл бұрын

Probably valve float. Or lifter pump-up.

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

Both issues we considered as well, funny that this video is starting to trend right now again because more is coming on this! It's at the machine shop and getting ready for more testing ... and likely upgrading! We're going to finally get an answer to just exactly WHAT is going on here!

@garylucier6817 2 жыл бұрын

At 23:54, turn out the dyno room lights those headers were cherry red after 1 min, then were owing and will burn off 1,200 degree paint! What initial timing, was the MSD box tricking your light? What advanced timing?

@mr2gordons940 2 жыл бұрын

Are you externally pumping water through the cooling system? I don't see the impeller shaft moving.

@LucoreAuto 2 жыл бұрын

Yea, on this dyno setup there is an entire external cooling system and the thermostat had been removed.

@dwb4462 2 жыл бұрын

Six pack had plain ole 906 heads,mopar did not have any special big block heads other than the 63-65 max wedge heads on 413&426 max wedge..The 67 gtx had -915 heads which were a closed chamber version of the standard 906 heads,use to be sought after just for the full point in compression boost,i.e 9.2 cr becomes 10.2 cr..The best big block mopar head was the hemi head,lol Being a mopar guy I hate to admit it but the big block chevies were the king of the street heads,even the oval ports were better than anything else out there and the rectangle port flowed really close to the street hemi heads.

@slowg8701 3 жыл бұрын

What cam did you all use on this I must have missed it. I'm also building a 451 st the moment deciding on a cam.

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

We never really spoke about it or posted it but can put the info up if you would like it

@slowg8701 3 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto yes that'd be awesome on the cam specs

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

@@slowg8701 One moment we'll put a photo of the cam card on our community tab here

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

@@slowg8701 cam card posted

@jhutch1470 2 жыл бұрын

What are the cam specs? That will tell what spring pressures you would need. I would like to know a lot more numbers on specs than I am hearing.

@briandolata3466 3 жыл бұрын

Do you have the right intake manifold? I remember that with dodge the mating surfaces have to be absolutely correct or you lose vacuum and you lose power. Check the angle on each surface the head and intake manifold

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

Very good questions! The heads have been milled on the mating surface to the block and also on the intake side to keep it all correct. This is a B series with a B series intake also so we didn't make the mistake of trying to run an RB style ;)

@briandolata3466 3 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto The last things I would check would be compression and maybe a weak fuel delivery system then bad gas do not use Shell Oil it is crap

@79tazman 2 жыл бұрын

That's if your using factory steel gaskets if you get good fel pro gaskets you don't have that issue but if you mill stuff the surfaces will change on any engine butfor factory don't use the factory steel intake gaskets

@karlsracing8422 4 жыл бұрын

I ran a 800 edelbrock on a 360 and 413 they love big cfm.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

We have played with a few different carbs so far, the Demon not running well on it was super surprising. That thing has been a trooper on every other motor we have run it with and needed ZERO adjustment. At the end of all this there will be a Holley Sniper EFI sitting on top of it!

@karlsracing8422 4 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto what intake? Rpm? Is the divider notched?

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

@@karlsracing8422 Running an out of the box Performer to keep everything the same across the board between the Mopar/Olds/Pontiac/Chevy big blocks we have run on the dyno there

@karlsracing8422 4 жыл бұрын

The regular performer does not have enough volume, i gained 3 tenths going to an rpm.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

@@karlsracing8422 It's certainly not going to breathe like an RPM will in the upper revs, we will 100% agree with you there. Similar to the cast iron heads, they just aren't designed to do the work in the upper RPMs like a set of aluminum will. This is a "Phase 1" for what will no doubt be a several phase process. Aluminum heads, a better intake, fuel injection, and.... other things will likely get added to the short block in the not so distant future ;)

@garylucier6817 2 жыл бұрын

Ok up to 15:35, red hot headers even brand new, too rich and waaay to much timing will do that. Valve float enough to float a boat too. Idle sounds great except the same whine on fire up for a 13-1 CR 383 I once received in exchange for my super used 440 from my uncle, sounded like it was blown, through break-in period, had to run ot with no thermostat, washer with a hole the size of a Nicole, to slow down the water flow, to keep it in the radiator long enough to actually cool it. But, once break-in was done, it screamed, ( capable to 11.50 ), ran 12:00 flat quarter @117Mph, squirted off line, unlike torque lifting front tires with the 440 same heavy 63 All Steel Polara. But it was a good month before it lost that tight turbine whine. Both had factory steel heads. 440, was 5,600, saw 5,700 plus a tiny bit once to run 11.50, short shifted 5,400 constant to run 12.00 Flat 12.02 consistantly. That 383 was all compression and RPM, much lower torque but higher RPM by far, saw 12.00 flat at 121 mph quarter once in great air. 440 rods and 440 pistons, combustion chamber cc's, deck height? Is there any room left in there at TDC? I know this is 2 years later and you no doubt already have the answers, but the mechanic in me questions what's up after the warm up. Header glowing & burning is a biiig warning sign too rich air fuel mixture and too much timing both together= valve float. Back to the video.

@mikestackhouse634 4 жыл бұрын

Re-torque the heads just for grins. You may have a side that isn't up to spec. Try different headers or stock manifolds to see if things get better.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

Actually tore the entire motor down between the first few runs and the last ones, all the way down to bare block then reassembled. Going back to manifolds would certainly be interesting to see what it does though! Pretty sure we are fighting a valve float issue either from heavy valves that were used or from the lifters pumping up with too much oil pressure. We'll do a bit more diagnosis of it on the chassis dyno once the full swap has been done.

@79tazman 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah the 915 casting Magnum is one of the best 440 heads the 906 heads were ok too. Stay away from the 346 heads they are smog heads good for a boat anchor and same as the motorhome heads they have small valves small ports and big open combustion chamber where the 915 had a closed CC and the 906 were open too

@j.campbellscmb1740 3 жыл бұрын

What was the cost of this stroker?

@dougjackson8059 7 ай бұрын

did you use stock heads onthe 451?

@davidjenkins1958 2 жыл бұрын

Love to see you do a 70 GS 455 Buick build and use stock cast iron heads, 70 specific.

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

Don’t they make good aluminum heads for those too!

@davidjenkins1958 2 жыл бұрын

@@cjbert6790 yes they do, but the video is about everything cast iron, block and heads.

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

David Jenkins but not about Buick’s. Lol

@davidjenkins1958 2 жыл бұрын

@@cjbert6790 they haven’t had any customers that needed a Buick rebuilt, plus the one owner of Lucore owns a 65 Skylark wagon with a 455 in it. Built.

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

David Jenkins I was just messing with you. All good.

@Moparmaga-1 4 жыл бұрын

What cam do you have ? If it's a mild cam that's the problem, you should be running no less the 240 duration @ .050 when people increase cubes and don't compesate. The heads and dual plane will run out of air, what you have is a governor on top limiting that engines capabilities. The factory 440 which 60 over is a 452 with a mild cam will be a torque monster but won't pull over 5k. Mild cam being 220s up to 240. The factory heads probably won't flow 240 cfm either. That engine needs a minimum 275 to be happy & That's just ported in the right spots.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

All very good info and you are right on all accounts! The cam in this thing is definitely no where near mild, and quite honestly designed for the phase 2 and 3 upgrades this motor will likely be going through. The heads and intake eill definitely be holding us back on the CFM and RPM sides but are giving us some great low and punch and driveability. We should have time to get it back on the dyno this coming week and see if the fix we think we were hunting, actually fixes our "wall" at 4800-4900

@Moparmaga-1 4 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto and good luck this coming week. If you have a chance to find a torker 383 short single plane that would work on the street great with those cubes & will flow better then anything else that will fit under the hood & will make atleast 30-50 peak hp & torque more, guaranteed.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

@@Moparmaga-1 oh there are definitely better options out there for power builds, and there will be changes made essentially as soon as this motor is ready to come off the dyno. We chose the Edelbrock to match the 3 other big block iron head motors we have run to keep things as close an Apples to Apples matchup as possible.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

@@Moparmaga-1 there will very likely be a set of Stealth heads on this beast in the very near future. For the money, it's honestly less expensive for a MUCH better head than having iron heads completely reworked. Cost savings alone it makes sense, not even factoring the huge benefits of the better aluminum heads. Current compression is just a smidge over 9.5 : 1 which is right where we were aiming. All the other cast irons have been in the 9.5-9.7:1 range

@Moparmaga-1 4 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto the stealth are good, aluminum heads like a tad over 10.0:1 which you should get if your losing 9-10 cc in the combustion chamber. I have a set of the stealths, theyre an exact copy of the 906 iron heads but bigger valves & stuff I'm sure you know of which will help big time.

@timothyking644 4 жыл бұрын

What are the piston specs?

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

There were shelf ICON forged 440 pistons

@richshim4621 2 жыл бұрын

What's the newest update for momamopar?

@richshim4621 2 жыл бұрын

What happened to the 400?

@erikschnell6225 2 жыл бұрын

most of the cheap headers they tell you that its a temp coating and it burns off fast

@karlsracing8422 4 жыл бұрын

Get a set of trickflow 240s and it'll rip!

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

Once we have this thing ironed out and running right on the iron heads, a set of Aluminums will be Phase 2... which might not be very far down the line! ;)

@karlsracing8422 4 жыл бұрын

It would be close to 500 or more hp. My buddys 543 with stock unported 906 heads made 525hp.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

@@karlsracing8422 Oh there will definitely be numbers over 500hp for this 451, once we are done seeing how this out of the box cast irons do. Another thing we are trying to be careful of is not making this car go straight from mild mannered to monster. The last thing we want to do is give 73ChargerChic more than she can comfortably handle and enjoy. Once she's good with it in current form, we swap a few parts and bang MORE POWWA BABY!

@ghostrt1608 3 жыл бұрын

The Trick Flow 270 heads may be a good choice also

@donellmuniz590 3 жыл бұрын

@@karlsracing8422 why would he spend the dough to stroke it all the way to 543, then choke it with stock iron heads? 525 hp is decent, and the torque is probably insane, but the poor thing is breathing through a straw! The stock heads are sized right for a 383 or 400, a bit small for a 440, but a 543?

@karlsracing8422 4 жыл бұрын

452 or 906 are the best flowing.

@ghostrt1608 3 жыл бұрын

@Mr. burns ...Steve Dulcuch tested all the big block Mopar heads and said the 346 heads flowed the best ...the 906 and 452 are more popular, but they're not actually the best (according to his test results)

@oscarwalton1188 3 жыл бұрын

452 but both are actually good

@88s10Durango 4 жыл бұрын

Re-Jet the carb ...

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

Oh believe us we played around with all sorts of jetting options, that definitely didn't fix it, unfortunately!

@johndillinger8482 4 жыл бұрын

sounds like it's running out of gas

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

That's what we were initially thinking as well but the AFR data shows everything is right where we want it. We've also changed everything in the carb, no amount of adjustment changed a thing. Breakup begins at 4800 and it its a wall at 5k.

@johnshackelford6965 2 жыл бұрын

#carcareguy mobile 1 Toyota

@karlsracing8422 4 жыл бұрын

Your ignition sucks! Lol i had a box that would do that, i rev my 413 to 6 grand.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

We are HOPING it's an ignition problem, thats actually what we are troubleshooting as I type this!

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

She should be able to spin to 6k without an issue

@chadklotz5494 3 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto my 70 440 GTX with Trick Flow power port 240 heads and performer RPM heads, Edelbrock 800 CFM carb was doing the same thing. I switched out the ignition, problem solved.

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

@@chadklotz5494 that's initially what we thought too, even swapped out the brand new MSD Billet distributor for another brand new MSD Billet distributor. Problem still persisted. Really really frustrating.

@Moparmaga-1 4 жыл бұрын

Crap, I just got this video.

@LucoreAuto 4 жыл бұрын

Well hopefully you liked it! :)

@Moparmaga-1 4 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto yeah of course

@dougjackson8059 Жыл бұрын

why on earth a451? why not a496 ? 450 hp? common you can do far better who came up with 451?

@dinadaughtry8993 Жыл бұрын

The 451 was one of the easiest way to get cubes before stroker kits where a common thing, just a stock 440 crank with the journals cut to fit the B block and counter weights milled down so they don't contact the block, probably done first in a 383 to get 426 cubes and then the 400 came out with the largest bore size of any other block ( by Chrysler) and the one of the best stroker builds ever came into existence

@jhutch1470 2 жыл бұрын

So you didn't choose the pistons, so you don't know the compression ratio. Why don't you cc the heads, check the deck height, find out the valve relief cc's, then pick the head gasket thickness for the comp ratio you want? Lazy much?

@joshwesterman9232 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry but that audio video out back soundes like SHIIIIIIIIIIT!

@LucoreAuto 2 жыл бұрын

Say what? Been a while since we went back and watched this full video... where are you hearing issues?

@joshwesterman9232 2 жыл бұрын

8 min in...That's rough not rowdy.lol

@LucoreAuto 2 жыл бұрын

@@joshwesterman9232 just a lil bit rough 😉

@dougjackson8059 7 ай бұрын

why 451? why not 496or500? otherwize you wasting hp

@wendyandgeoffpattison2610 Жыл бұрын

Why would you go to the trouble and expense of stroking that jewel and not top it off with a pair of quality ally heads. Motor home heads are a complete waste of time. Trick Flow heads are worth at least 50hp right out of the box. Plus the weight advantage. I don't get it.

@LucoreAuto Жыл бұрын

Well, a number of reasons to be honest. Before we get into that if you are interested in this build it progressed beyond this which you can see in the Momma's Mopar playlist here. This was never a "max power" build the idea was a quality drive-able hot rod pump gas motor with 450ish inches and iron heads so we could compare it to the Chevy/Olds/Pontiac we had already built. Unfortunately we ran into issues with the build/builder and seriously hobbled this motor. LOTS of big issues were found.. all stuff you'll see in episodes after this one

@briandolata3466 3 жыл бұрын

You have a head set up for low rpm running engine - meaning the weak valve springs just float. You show yourself as a engine guy but you do not know the basics here. It pains me to watch you any further.

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

What valve springs are we using?

@briandolata3466 3 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto You stated that you were using a head that is typical for the rv which uses the least performance parts. That is what I gleaned from you on your video. If it is not valve springs I would look at a bad distributor, cap, wires, rotor. It does not matter if they are new. I have bought new parts that were junk from the factory might as well check the plugs too I have bought my share f junk plugs. Also You have one hell of a lot of noise coming from somewhere in your video. That may be a problem to check out.

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

@@briandolata3466 Yes they were RV heads from the factory and starting at a disadvantage but everything in them has been replaced. All components replaced and using the same type of springs across the other brands. Same use of stock sized brand new valves. Similar 1.6 rocket setups. We though, hmmm ignition is breaking up as well. Swapped out for another brand new MSD Billet, same issue. New plugs, new wires. Exact same issue. Even put ANOTHER motor on the same dyno thinking maybe it was something with the MSD box... that motor spun just fine to 7k+. Welcome to the nightmare ;)

@Torquemonster440 3 жыл бұрын

@@LucoreAuto If its getting sufficient fuel flow, getting sufficient spark, sufficient air.. then it has to be a mechanical issue. I would suggest popping off a few of those valve springs and having them checked per the manufacturer's specs and verify they're 100% what you need to keep that camshaft happy at RPM.. the other option would be the lifters bleeding down perhaps ? Either way, all signs point to valve train instability. Keep up the good work tho.. love your channel and ChargerChick is a total hottie !! 😉 so,you're definitely winning in that department. 🍻

@79tazman 2 жыл бұрын

Motorhome heads are the worst heads you can put on a big block that you want any performance out of since the CC is big and the ports are small same goes for the valves. you were better off taking the heads off the 400 in the car and using them instead of low compression motorhome heads

@NDMHUNTER1 3 жыл бұрын

Sorry guys but that was really long winded and boring and you never got to the point

@LucoreAuto 3 жыл бұрын

The point? Which point?

@79tazman 2 жыл бұрын

The heads on that engine is killing all power potential of that engine using those heads are the worst heads you could use and you can't even compare this engine to the others since you are using junk heads. I don't know why you would even spend a cent on redoing those heads when they are totally the bottom of the barrel heads mopar made for the 440. heads from a new yorker or 3/4 ton pickup truck are better than those things.

@cjbert6790 2 жыл бұрын

None of the old iron heads are that good without a ton of work and money.

@lynbridger255 2 жыл бұрын

WAY TOO TALKING bout this and that Get to it PLEASE

@LucoreAuto 2 жыл бұрын

Trying to give people as much background and data as possible, this has been a really long time coming. Definitely not a video for people wanting to just see a quick dyno pull and move on.