MAC Model 1947 Prototype SMGs

Рет қаралды 158,303

Күн бұрын

Today's video - and many others - have been made possible in part by my friend Shéhérazade (Shazzi) Samimi-Hoflack. She is a real estate agent in Paris who specializes in working with English-speakers, and she has helped me arrange places to stay while I'm filming in France. I know that exchange rates make this a good time for Americans to invest in Europe, and if you are interested in Parisian real estate I would highly recommend her. She can be reached at:
samimiconsulting@gmail.com
(Note: she did not pay for this endorsement)
utreon.com/c/forgottenweapons/
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/For...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenweapons.com
Immediately upon the liberation of France in 1944, the French military began a process of developing a whole new suite of small arms. As it applied to SMGs, the desire was for a design in 9mm Parabellum (no more 7.65mm French Long), with an emphasis on something light, handy, and foldable. All three of the French state arsenals (MAC, MAS, and MAT) developed designs to meet the requirement, and today we are looking at the first pair of offerings form Chatellerault (MAC). These are the 1947 pattern, a very light lever-delayed system with (frankly) terrible ergonomics.
Many thanks to the French IRCGN (Criminal Research Institute of the National Gendarmerie) for generously giving me access to film these unique specimens for you!
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle 36270
Tucson, AZ 85740

Пікірлер: 413

@vchalmel Жыл бұрын

Well, it's nice to know the person who helped Ian invest in a nice Bond-Villain's style lair under Paris to match his choice of formal attire, with a 250m² guns safe, a pool full of of 8mm Longue and hidden passages to the vaults of various firearms & military museums.

@AshleyPomeroy Жыл бұрын

And Marisa Mell...

@SedatedandRestrained Жыл бұрын

I love the idea of Ian having a Scrooge McDuck style vault full of French Long that he dives into

@george2113 Жыл бұрын

@@SedatedandRestrained getting the bullets out of your ears after a swim

@dyadyabal_54 Жыл бұрын

based

@ZGryphon Жыл бұрын

@@SedatedandRestrained The last tenant put a piranha tank for failing underlings there, but the licensing for pirahna tanks is a massive secondary expense for a show-offy accessory that most evil masterminds simply don't need.

@NerdyGardevoir Жыл бұрын

Weirdly enough as it might be, I liked that Ian felt like adding a thank you to one of his friends that helps him out. She seems like a very wonderful friend to have. I kinda hope that Ian can do more stuff like this for people in the future.

@rebralhunter6069 Жыл бұрын

@@ChristopherHallett You seem like a gentleman with quite reasonable and not at all ill informed takes.

@superwinkta4682 Жыл бұрын

Yes it's really cool that he's helping out one of his friends especially since she's a woman it just makes me respect Ian even more. 👍👍

@alanvitullo Жыл бұрын

Origami guns are becoming a theme lately. Ian looking dapper AF in that coat. 👌

@01001Wintermute Жыл бұрын

Well, when in Rome. Or more accurately, in Paris.

@kreeyungman7426 Жыл бұрын

Very chic. Good eye for guns and fashion

@lairdcummings9092 Жыл бұрын

Extremely chic - Ian's francophilia serves him well.

@01001Wintermute Жыл бұрын

@@lairdcummings9092 Well there is a close historic connection between France and Scotland so.....

@jooger69 Жыл бұрын

The French copy no-one and no-one copies the French

@HughStLeger Жыл бұрын

It tickle's me seeing Ian dressed Parisian, I expected Ian to break open a croissant and reveal a liberator pistol

@lyndonmarquis414 Жыл бұрын

Well that was certainly less intrusive than Raid: Shadow Legends. Never an issue to see Ian helping someone who helps him.

@pierremoyano3557 Жыл бұрын

Thank you Ian for covering French weapons, as a french person you have all my gratitude especially in these time when our government is trying everything it can to disarm us. Recently a note was added that changed the rules to be on the banned list of owning guns in the country, notably *saying* that "A weapon should be owned for self defense" or trying to learn how to use it outside a shooting range are now bannable offense. These two examples are a few from what was added. I thank you a lot to keep our gun culture alive on the internet even if it saddens me we can't do it on our own. Thank you Ian.

@lMegumemesl Жыл бұрын

Get the guillotines ready

@Bluematchhead Жыл бұрын

No sir, thank you and all of France with all the help in that whole independence thing.

@Amarok-7 Жыл бұрын

Yeah i share the same, i'm french as well and I can't stand that point. We also had a great gun culture. But noooo, gov is acting like a spoiled brat from Bruxelles.

@deucedeuce1572 Жыл бұрын

Awesome design (the firing mechanism specifically). With it being made so early, I wonder if it's the source for other designs that came out later.

@Craterfist Жыл бұрын

Did I read that right? Just verbally advocating for the concept of owning firearms for self defense can get you banned from owning firearms? That's blatantly authoritarian.

@marvindebot3264 Жыл бұрын

Those little french super-folders are pretty dang cool stuff. Kudos for helping out those who help you as well mate.

@TheCptnZ Жыл бұрын

how cool would it be to own one?

@nathanwright8598 Жыл бұрын

I would have never have guessed the closest thing Ian would have to a sponsor would be a French real estate agent.

@armorynorth Жыл бұрын

Buying real estate in France is very very different and having a lady like this is essential. Not least of which for the reason that construction and the way buildings have aged are radically different from the US.

@Jreb1865 Жыл бұрын

That charging handle on the bottom of the trigger guard is just genius...

@falloutlover5443 Жыл бұрын

And incredibly satisfying to watch.

@arjen7024 Жыл бұрын

Yo dawg I heard you like levers so I put a charging lever on your lever delayed SMG

@Exarian Жыл бұрын

I'd actually like to see that sorta concept on more stuff. It'd be nice to see it used on a normal carbine as part of a design project to eliminate protrusions on the side and keep hands below the receiver as much as possible. Might make it easier to carry without it catching on stuff or digging into a pressure point on your back or something. Plus, you get to work in a little old-timey lever action mystique.

@michaelrobbins9679 Жыл бұрын

Ummmmmmmmmmm. Isn't that a lever from a break action Savage rifle? Or was this the the egg?

@PosranaRegistrace Жыл бұрын

It is pretty much fully automatic lever-action gun :D

@357BlahEn Жыл бұрын

The magazine's dust cover when folded is kinda a neat design - I was half expecting it to just fly off into space like the FMG-9's cover when you unfolded it, and was pleasantly suprised when it became part of the magwell.

@dillanaddington7022 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if it makes mag changes challenging, it looks like it’s spring loaded and would block the next magazine.

@Losgansosalvajes Жыл бұрын

I like how in french "folding" means "everything must fold"

@jacobstaten2366 Жыл бұрын

I half expected for him to say there was a version where the barrel folds over too.

@Florkl Жыл бұрын

“At least I hope.” Until that moment I assumed English was her first language. Her pronunciation is amazing! I know it takes a lot of effort to not just learn a language, but also master the new sounds.

@Likexner Жыл бұрын

What are you talking about? She had an obvious accent.

@coRnflEks Жыл бұрын

That's a really clever design. Several mechanisms that serve multiple functions, and ample simplicity to build something great on.

@alun7006 Жыл бұрын

I *cannot* get enough of lever-delayed systems. Such a cool mechanism, and I don't really understand why it hasn't seen more use. These guns are really awkward, but that's to be expected from prototypes. Very cool!

@gohunt001-5 Жыл бұрын

I think a good reason why is that it requires some precise machining to make a good one. Perhaps not as much as, say, a flapper-delayed style of action(idk for sure however), but still enough to make simpler to manufacture actions more attractive to most militaries

@alun7006 Жыл бұрын

@@gohunt001-5 makes sense!

@bravo_cj Жыл бұрын

That's because delayed blowback mechanisms are all typycally used limitedly. For pistol calibers, they are more expensive than simple blowback; for bigger calibers, they are going to make the bolt chunky and bulky due to the lack of secure lockup. The roller delayed system is actually a relatively easy mechanism to manufacture and has better potential for accuracy since the rollers are placed symmetrically.

@andersjjensen Жыл бұрын

@@bravo_cj But, and I say this as someone who loves the G3 because I served with it, the roller delayed systems are REALLY picky about cleanliness. Get any amount of sand in there and you have a bolt action rifle with a charming crunchy sound effect going on.

@dibingsdibingens8463 Жыл бұрын

@@andersjjensen might as well call it a "crunch-action rifle"

@RamadaArtist Жыл бұрын

The closest thing to a sponsored segment I've ever seen Ian do also turns out to be kind of adorably wholesome.

@nickverbree Жыл бұрын

I'm glad to see that everyone is cool with Ian shouting out people who help him out.

@joshmeads Жыл бұрын

Love the ergos, when you create a better grip than the Sten you know you've really done something.

@kabbacallisto Жыл бұрын

Epic Shazzi cameo, the Ianverse expands

@JamesLaserpimpWalsh Жыл бұрын

I thought that mag well was gonna twist on the 45 degree axis 180 degrees to start with lol. Its great how they folded it up. Cheers Ian.

@petesheppard1709 Жыл бұрын

At least they're not crooked! 😎 One thing I find endearing is Ian's precise engineering terminology: 'That big ol'...' 🤓

@ben501st Жыл бұрын

Ian is an engineering tech by education. Techs are great at translating engineering speak to understandable terms.

@petesheppard1709 Жыл бұрын

@@ben501st And Ian's a master!

@theodoreheintz7891 Жыл бұрын

Ian I love you! This is some of the coolest stuff I've ever seen and I had no idea that these ever existed. Thank you so much for being so freaking awesome and amazing!

@deu_rottweiler9069 Жыл бұрын

Years ago I found a magazine at the flea market and didn't even know at the time that it belonged to this weapon

@stetonwalters574 Жыл бұрын

I'm from Southwest Georgia and my cousin's from Louisiana if people can understand us they can understand you

@ctafoya4252 Жыл бұрын

I’m from California and can’t understand the southern twang.

@joshuadavidson662 Жыл бұрын

Alabama backwoods hick here ...and i can agree beautiful English better than me

@57HEMIviken Жыл бұрын

I deployed with a guy from Georgia, and i was basically his translator for the first week or two lol

@calvinplumley4394 Жыл бұрын

@@ctafoya4252 not our fault y'all's ears aren't calibrated correctly.

@stetonwalters574 Жыл бұрын

@@ctafoya4252 yeah Southern twang is basically if you took English Welsh mixed it in with North Irish and topped it with Haitian

@jamesgravel7755 Жыл бұрын

I just love this era of insane designs. The competition was crazy how many different people were trying to make the next perfect sub gun. Every one unique in its own way. Just awesome

@dibingsdibingens8463 Жыл бұрын

Anf then the lawmakers came...

@thierrythejovial8721 Жыл бұрын

Excellente video, comme toujours. Merci Ian !

@williamdixon8283 Жыл бұрын

My Iranian born wife has a network of friends from Sweden to Greece that kind of fill Shazi’s role in our life. Still, it’s always good to have a specialist. Best wishes and thanks for the lovely “weird weapons!”

@dcspooky6903 Жыл бұрын

Great video Ian......as usual!

@razamundo132 Жыл бұрын

Great video and really nice to see you supporting and boosting a friend. Awesome stuff as always!

@thebotrchap Жыл бұрын

Fugly 01 et Fugly 02 😂 Very nice to finally see the inside of one and the symmetrical delay cam.

@ForgottenWeapons Жыл бұрын

Fugly? These got nuthin' on the EROP guns...(which are coming)

@Mike44460 Жыл бұрын

The machining of the bolt group is amazing.

@anon_y_mousse Жыл бұрын

Agreed, poor grips, but still really cool. I'd like to see someone refine the design of the P90 because I think it comes closest to what I think would be the perfect PDW.

@TwoGunToast Жыл бұрын

Yea huge props to shouting her out for the great work she does! That's super cool.

@joshgreen2164 Жыл бұрын

Very cool promoting the folks that help you. Im behind that all the way.

@janpostma5381 Жыл бұрын

Funny to see that keltec's engineers are of french decent

@mikepj67 Жыл бұрын

Love the prototype smg’s.

@ForgottenWeapons Жыл бұрын

Good, because there are a bunch more coming :)

@officerbarbrady8387 Жыл бұрын

That shoutout that Ian did was so oddly wholesome. Gun Jesus truly is better than most of us.

@mikeks8181 Жыл бұрын

75 years have gone by and we still don't have a PCC/Back Pack/ Truck Gun That Can Be That Compact and Open So Easily! History in this demonstration should be reviewed by many manufacturers! Another Great Video of not just the firearms?! But The History of System! Thank You again for giving us an education of the One's That Slipped Past

@Lonewolfmike Жыл бұрын

Nice plug Ian. Thanks for helping her.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

@LoganJP0120 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if any of the French trial weapons, and this one especially, gave inspiration to Ingram in the 50s/60s and to PDW/Machine Pistol development in the 90s. This prototype reminds me of an MP9 in more than a few ways.

@michelguevara151 Жыл бұрын

yes. it did.

@Jreb1865 Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing...

@ericlondon5731 Жыл бұрын

I've never seen so much as a picture or drawing of this one. Thanks for the video !

@Felnier Жыл бұрын

They have these in the Marauders game that came out recently. Haven't seen these in a game before then.

@RedDoggo Жыл бұрын

Hi, a few days after this great video, I visited the French Army Museum at Paris and I found a very interesting weapon that looked very similar to these prototypes: According to the little information available at the museum, this weapon is called "PM ETVS" for "Pistol Mitrailleur Model E.T.V.S. (Etablissement Technique de Versailles) 1933". It is chambered in 7.65mm French Long, it weighs 2.7 Kg (5.9 Lbs) and it measures 0.63 m / 63 cm (24.8 Inches). She was in direct competition with the PM MAS 38. It is identical to the second model presented in your video in all visual and functional aspects except for these two points: the "sten" type stock is made of wood (can be fold to) and the charging handle is directly attached to the bolt with a hole made in the upper case. So I was wondering if you knew this weapon / prototype? (although I think the answer is yes). I got some photos but I can't find some on the internet...

@loupiscanis9449 Жыл бұрын

Thank you , Ian . 🐺

@darkoflight4938 Жыл бұрын

Oh, look at those fantastically fabulous French fast folding fabrications!

@AllAboutSurvival Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for your efforts in sharing your learnings with us. I appreciate the great work of you and your team!

@Bob-jf1tb Жыл бұрын

As a Frenchman, I am very happy to learn about these prototypes

@Dreadought Жыл бұрын

I now wish this had gone ahead, i really want to see a more developed version of these guns, there are some really cool ideas here

@randywatson8347 Жыл бұрын

Lol Ian is going to live in wonderland Paris lol. Sleek design of those mac models btw. Love how they cleverly designed the two way locking system by single springed hinge of the magazine well. Internals, block, lever etc... very cool.

@shawnr771 Жыл бұрын

Very cool. Thank you for sharing.

@fullmetaflak Жыл бұрын

You say this is ugly, but I can't help but love how retro-futuristic that gun looks, stellar

@Jesses001 Жыл бұрын

These are very French in design. A lot of good ideas here, but I do have to wonder what I am suppose to hold onto on that first one when actually firing the weapon. Really neat charging handle...lever...thing and very compact. That coil spring as a main spring shrinks everything down a lot.

@clothar23 Жыл бұрын

The mag is the only thing that makes sense. Maybe the barrel if you've got good gloves but even than I personally wouldn't.

@Jesses001 Жыл бұрын

@@clothar23 The use of a coil spring drastically reduces the size of the weapon. Though the design overall seems...almost unshootable, the core of the design looks great...oh that bolt requires a lot of machining. That could be a problem if you are keeping to a budget.

@cheesenoodles8316 Жыл бұрын

The world of post WWII French prototype submachine guns..... that seems like a rare place to visit. Super Cool

@TJ_Low Жыл бұрын

The first one had a lot of cool features. The lever-action-like charging handle seems like a good place for it. Also being able to use the sights with the stock folded is a nice foresight.

@MrJest2 Жыл бұрын

Lever-delays always fascinate me, just because the physics involved can be somewhat daunting... although I expect a lot of these were designed on "instinct" and experience, then minutely "fiddled with" to get the precise dimensions of the mating surfaces and lever fulcrum action perfected. A lot of animals - humans included - have a sort of "physics co-processor" in our brains that let us do very fast-and-rough complex calculations like this surprisingly quickly. These days, of course, we use CAD programs and other machine assistance to get these designs right, but I expect some of that built in "processing power" was brought to bear in innately talented firearm designers of the past.

@kevinoliver3083 6 ай бұрын

The grip on No.1 makes the Sten's T-stock look quite comfy. The open edges are going to gouge into the web of your thumb and your shoulder (unless you're wearing a thick jacket), even in 9mm Parabellum.

@ryan0U Жыл бұрын

I like how the stock on the first one looks really nice... if it were upside down.

@jensenwilliam5434 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your videos!!!

@oldesertguy9616 Жыл бұрын

I love the optimism of putting 200 yard sights on an open-bolt gun that only fires in full auto.

@Jays_video_watcher Жыл бұрын

These are epic! I can totally see the second one being delivered by the truck load to Partisans and resistance fighters. I would love to return to cheap stamped firearms.

@mikewysko2268 Жыл бұрын

So many interesting items in the background.

@Mrcaffinebean Жыл бұрын

That is a remarkable clever gun in almost every way.

@wreckinball11 Жыл бұрын

So the first gun could theoretically be disassembled by accident by catching the take down lever. I see with the stock folded it's protected but not when in use configuration.

@DH-xw6jp Жыл бұрын

A lever action, open bolt, folding, origami Submachine gun? Very cool.

@The762nato Жыл бұрын

Its an interesting concept from the point that CAD CAM didn't exist at the time and it all had to be drawn on paper and the tooling engineers had to also do the rest of the design in fabrication.

@CheshireTomcat68 Жыл бұрын

There is definitely a man who wanders the globe designing clips, catches and locking pieces with a really manly Click! for every gun ever.

@leonmartinalonso2920 Жыл бұрын

You should definetly come to Toulouse France, the flea market is super cool and you can find a lot of weird pieces. I bought my Mannlicher M88 there

@Hawk1966 Жыл бұрын

Numbers 01 & 02, that's pretty cool. I like the under the trigger guard charging handle. It looks fast and quick to use. I'm surprised we never saw something similar agai:. . . Correct me if I'm wrong.

@sirkorbendallas Жыл бұрын

Another great video Ian, you been busy

@lbh002 Жыл бұрын

Ian on the streets of Paris is looking kinda dapper! Well done Ian.

@hesthatguy Жыл бұрын

Why have we not seem more charging handles like that in other guns? It's brilliantly simple and solves the problem of it getting caught on your gear.

@LOVEMUFFIN_official Жыл бұрын

I believe that the M3 Grease Gun had one before it was dropped for the M3A1.

@hesthatguy Жыл бұрын

@@LOVEMUFFIN_official I didn't know that. Neat! I wonder what the drawbacks are. Guns are mostly designed by people a lot smarter than me, so there's gotta be a reason the design didn't get more popular.

@LOVEMUFFIN_official Жыл бұрын

@@hesthatguy I think it was too fragile and prone to bending/breaking off. It also (in the case of the M3 and the stupidly simple “stick your thumb in it” solution used in the M3A1) is unnecessarily complicated and expensive to manufacture. As you said, it’s also prone to getting snagged on webgear and the environment.

@AndrewAMartin Жыл бұрын

@@hesthatguy I think the under-triggerguard lever would get in the way of a pistol grip, but it might be worth developing further...

@JGCR59 Жыл бұрын

In the segment with his real estate friend, Ian looks frencher than any frenchman I have ever seen :)

@madcomrade121 Жыл бұрын

Got DAMN, that Parisian fit is just *chef's kiss*

@draconus15 Жыл бұрын

I would love to see something like this today for a pcc of some kind

@mattycakes1161 Жыл бұрын

Very neat examples. France was at the forefront of firearms technology for a long time. Despite it being a bullpup, I'd like to have a Famas and I wish they'd make some for the US market.

@letsdosomething6691 Жыл бұрын

I like the under charging lever better. It seems more effective and comfortable.

@dude126 Жыл бұрын

Tres bien.

@GL0650 Жыл бұрын

It is not ultra-rare, it is méga-introuvable. Merci beaucoup monsieur Mc Callum.

@richardhsiung7007 Жыл бұрын

As longtime ad professional, I feel that was a very nice segue into an advertising.

@laurentrouy-transeuromedia1662 Жыл бұрын

You are progressing in French Ian! Before you used to say "Tullé" (manufacture) instead of "Tulle". This mistake is now corrected. In the name of the French community that watches your videos, I give you a "A" grade for this. Tout le meilleur !!!

@user-oh2kt8lf6g Жыл бұрын

What a charming lady you introduced us to!

@Lucky91731 Жыл бұрын

I can definitely see this as a Star Wars prop

@thesuit4820 Жыл бұрын

When normal people get invited somewhere at the courtesy of the gendarmerie it usually a bit different...

@BlackSoap361 Жыл бұрын

A lever-action SMG, that folds. Awesome.

@butcherbaylee Жыл бұрын

Very interesting design

@justanothergunnerd8128 Жыл бұрын

very cool

@pavarottiaardvark3431 Жыл бұрын

Ian also has a videos about yet more weird French folding submachine guns, named the MGD PM9 and the Hotchkiss Universal

@johnscheib9077 Жыл бұрын

Itd be fascinating in 6 months to see if Ian was able to drive any sales to that nice lady

@shovelchop81bikeralex52 Жыл бұрын

Is that red paint on the No.2 marked gun there to cover up the blood shed due to that horrendously uncomfortable looking stock's 'grip'? Man, that makes the STEN's grip look comfortable!

@impliedtomato8760 Жыл бұрын

So a lever action submachine gun! That is a really cool system

@QruisS Жыл бұрын

"Mom, can we get an FMG-9?" "We already have an FMG-9 at home" The FMG-9 at home:

@buckit099 Жыл бұрын

A story about that ballistic face shield in the background would be cool.

@sartorialdriver6528 Жыл бұрын

Damn, Ian dripping super hard with that turtleneck and coat.

@jamesdalton2014 Жыл бұрын

It's easy to see why these guns were not adopted. I wouldn't want to be given an SMG that had no pistol grip and a stock that would get bent out of shape very easily. Even the Sten's "empty frame" stock was solid, not just some folded-over sheet metal. Also, I know the French were big on the fold-up mag well but, there's a reason very few guns have them - they just add another thing that can malfunction on the gun.

@petesheppard1709 Жыл бұрын

I was thinking what that sheet stock would do to the shooter's face...

@tabaflip Жыл бұрын

So... This is a lever action smg?

@henrisivonen7404 Жыл бұрын

Lever delayed lever action submachine gun with a disassembly lever.. Someone really loved levers 😁

@tuscan9617 Жыл бұрын

That’s a nice coat. Out of everything in this video that’s all I keep thinking about.

@grbdevnull5611 Жыл бұрын

Ian always finds unexpected guns and now he has unexpected ads, too.

@Hypastpist Жыл бұрын

these would look great as star wars blaster with a little modification

@PokemonHaloFan Жыл бұрын

The first version looks like the single most uncomfortable submachine gun I've ever seen.

@mynamesjudge Жыл бұрын

Someday, when I finally make it, I'll contact Shazzi to buy my European mansion.

@RaptorJesus Жыл бұрын

That day may be sooner than you think, if the imminent collapse of Russia is anything to go by I imagine some Oligarch's chateaus are gonna be on the market super-cheap.