Thank you! thank you! thank you! for all of these electronics chemistry videos Nurd Rage. Seriously, you've played a major role in helping me discover my interests in PCB design and prototyping. I have been goofing around with electronics since becoming partially disabled in 2014. I've gone from goofing around with copy and paste arduino code to hacking old junk, to designing and etching my own circuits. I've watched this and several of your other uploads a dozen or more times. I have been playing with a container of ferric chloride I was given from RadioShack before they went belly up. I'm finally to the point where I want to try etching some larger panelized designs that are close to A4 sized transparencies. Today I was given a container of muriatic acid from lowes, some 3% hydrogen peroxide, some steel wool, and I'm back here for notes! I also have an old container of tarnex to try that tinning solution recipe you cooked up... yeah I'm that slow... as a gimp it takes forever to get things done. I really really appreciate the references you've made here. One problem I'm having is the unknown concentration of my old ferric chloride from RS. I don't know if I should try to heat it to evaporate/concentrate it or modify it somehow. Even the last 1/3rd of my bottle of fresh solution took around 45min to etch a 5cm × 10cm double sided design. Most people that I've watched or read about say that etching with ferric chloride should take around 15-20min. How does an amateur go about characterizing the quality and strength of their enchant? I don't expect an answer here or anything. This is simply intended as a positive feedback blurb. I'm just sharing a challenge incase you or anyone else thinks this kind of thing is worth addressing. I'm sure you have a laundry list of things you'd like to make content about. Another chemistry experiment I was curious about recently is trying to play with making a transistor using doped materials. I was watching Robert Baruch, on the channel by the same name, reverse engineering a 74 series logic chip at the die level. He was talking about a way to dye the p-channel doped materials during his last live stream. That got me curious about what other transistor effects could be made at home or even in the average lab. It's just something to think about if your interested in that kind of thing ;) -Jake

All I have to say is that I am amazed by the HDI Handbook. I quickly skimmed over a few sections and I am liking a lot what I see. Thank you very much Okto Putsch!!!

Honestly, I do not understand 98% of your videos, including this one, but there is something special about your videos that makes them very entertaining for me.

thanks man! house hold hydrochloric acid and peroxide worked like a charm on etching copper thanks man!

Right on! I was about to say the same thing. I'm not too fluent in the ways of Chemistry (high school is as far as I went with Chemistry), but I always enjoy these videos and can usually grasp what's going on.

I LOVE THAT INTRO!!!! Very retro. Reminds me of the CBS Special Programming intro from the 70's/80's

NurdRage, I love all of your video! I never get bored to watch it and I am deaf I want to say thank you for put closed caption it really help me to learn, some people just dont put closed caption on videos. You worked hard to teach some things to people and let not forget all of those things you used chemical must be cost you quite money and you dont earn any money from KZfaq.... I sure hope you keep doing what you are doing. I know you dont show your face but I hope I will meet you one day.

I was a QC chemist at a circuit board shop. We and other shops use NH4Cl + NH4OH + O2 recycled by cooling to precip CuCl2. Edta and ammonia complex Copper so we used NaBH4 to precip and filter out metals from waste stream. Else Aluminum foil or Steel wool also works. We had used Iron powder b4, after Copper removal filter magnetically. Also Ammonium Persulfate sold in electronics parts stores is very clean used for prototypes. Potassium Persulfate, in pool supplies, also works.

Woah this is captivating, I have absolutely no use for this and yet I'm still watching :-)

Most excellent! You've thought of everything, even disposal, which is a problem. Can't wait for that video...

another suggestion for future video: selective corrosion, e.g. nickel, tin , gold or alloys are preserved while copper is etched away. It is the process used in pcb industry.

I cant wait to try like 3 of them, kno3 and hcl looks so easy to make

That's a good point. I was just looking through the RepRap project at the time and trying to figure a way for the 3D printer to manufacture it's own circuitry.

That's phenomenal! Thanks for the link.

great video! just what i was looking for.

Probably works with a few more metals rather than just brass. I suspect it would also dissolve zinc as well. I don't know of any special properties that would make brass much easier to dissolve as opposed to other metals. Is it dissolving cleanly or is it leaving a sludge or sediment in the bottom the tank? If it's leaving a sludge/sediment then the faster dissolution might be from it simply being easier to break-up so less energy is needed to actually dissolve metal as opposed to breaking it up

Thats cool-i just uploaded a video making my first printed circuit board using the toner transfer method from a laser printer on shiny magazine paper. No expensive press n peel paper-just a page from a magazine. I used ammonium persulphate and its really cool that you have a list of readily available chemicals.

I would give this video series 1000 thumbs up if I could.

first the "walls" of the hole are coated with a conductive ink (usually graphite based since it's cheap), then it's dried. The board is then cleaned and dipped into plating solution with additives to improve plating of the holes.

~3 Years after this video has been posted. WHERE'S THE VIDEO ABOUT DISPOSING THE ETCHANTS?!

The video is sped up. it takes several minutes to etch with 3% h202 and sulfuric acid. but it still works

awesome NurdRage videos!

thanks for the great vid. i was going to etch a fuel injection pcb and was wondering what would be best. it was yesterday that i was thinking about this and u posted this vid yesterday was u reading my mind lol.

Very cool. Thanks for the video. I am looking forward to the videos on recycling these enchants. I have a quantity of used enchant here that I would love to pull the copper out of for environmental reasons.

yes it leaves a sludge , you can actualy see the brass "spray" off the electrode , i was just wondering if you new of a brass chloride compound ? asking because as i said the reaction does not liberate chlorine. i have tried alot of other metals and your write others do dissolve just not nearly as fast as brass. thanks for your input

That's the realistic response I expected. I assumed that it would be a tad too ambitions for amateur to attempt. That aside, if you found the materials to do so, I think it would make a great video. I also want to thank you for all the great content you've done. If I had found them before I probably would have chosen a chemistry related field over my current undergrad of electrical engineering.

Brass is an alloy of two or more metals, usually copper and zinc. But yes, there are lots of copper chloride and zinc chloride compounds. The apparent speed can be attributed to the sludge formation. The brass dissolves and breaks off microscopic pieces of metal (the sludge). So for the same amount of energy more metal "dissolves" because it's cheating by breaking off sludge instead. Like cutting a pipe at the base and throwing it all away as opposed to slowly melting down the whole pipe.

Thanks for watching them ^_^

Thank you for your KZfaq videos.

Keep the good videos coming. For what it's worth, the quality of the sodium acetate that I make has greatly improved because of you, leading to a good number of hours of harmless fun, and my interest in chemistry has returned. Now, if you can help me with pulling copper out of my persulfate enchants here for disposal purposes, that would be awesome. Can I electrolyze the copper out, or, would I need to add some sort of oxidizing agent to remove copper? Thanks again!

I never understand the chemical reactions nor what he is doing, but i think it is interesting to know so i subscribe and watch.

Go for it! ^_^ Although i would think if you get access to bleach, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid you could also get either hydrogen peroxide or copper sulfate or iron.

I was thinking about that. but the chemicals themselves are so hard to get or make that it would be cheaper just to buy ready-made photopolymer.

Woow amazing video i loved it😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

Printed Circuit Board shops usually use Ammonia/Copper/Chloride bath and Reoxidized by Air. Can cool the bath to drop out Copper Amine Chloride complex as Crystals or can plate out the Copper. We treated the Copper waste solution (alkaline) with Sodium Borohydride and filtered out the Copper.

I wonder if any alkalic solution also exist. Maybe ammonium-hidroxyde what is stinky though but also copper I and copper II complex exist.

Nice, really shows the chemistry involved in the name brand etchants also, (as they use these compounds anyhow)

Awesome! Hey, since you're talking about printed circuit boards, you could also talk about ways to metalize holes walls in double face copper printed circuit boards. I'm kind of curious about how do they do it.

Best way to tell is to do something called a titration to find the exact quantities of acid and metal ions in solution. pH alone is not indicative since CuCl2 is itself acidic. If you're just doing this on a hobby scale and don't really need perfectly consistent results then its easier just to take a small 10mL sample (like in the videos) and test etch of a small strip of PCB. if it etches its fine, if not, add 3mL H2O2, if it etches you just need H2O2 or air bubbling, if not then add acid.

They will, but they might have undesirable effects on the steel. I recommend doing a few tests on scrap steel you're intending to throw out anyway.

I guess it would work with sulphuric acid and copper-sulphate also. Could you reinforce it?

i see your point , soon i will post a vid on this strange ac electrolysis as it is typicly impossible

That's great! Thanks! Assa!

I've used silver nitrate for my pcbs. It can be quite advantageous since it doesn't fume, can be regenerated and you can see very nicely where it is etching. Also it doesn't produce any bubbles during operation hence it wont tear up protective coating you have on the copper. Of course it's expensive (at least at the begining when you get initial silver, then it's just the cost of nitric acid, which can also be pricy, depending where you get it from), I probably wouldn't have used it, if I wasn't refining scrap silver anyway.

Thank you, you are awesome!

it would certainly be a pretty cool video. but the equipment investment is quite high. I'll keep it in mind for a long term project but it is currently far beyond the capabilities of my lab.

I clicked the annotation you said not to click, and I do not regret it. That's a good video.

PERFECT THANK YOU SIR

I was wondering, how copper diffusion can be done on glass? Better yet, there is a way to make amorphous copper metal? Thanks.

so cool!

I f'n love your vids dude.

Yeah me too, but they used to teach people to use ferric/ferrous. I think they changed to II/III because it is easier.

Maybe your copper isn't pure then. While copper does catalyze decomposition its usually not too fast that it doesn't dissolve. If you want to make CuSO4 then use the electrolytic method i showed in another method. It'll still have H2SO4 in it but that can easily be filtered off.

Yes. Reactions take from minutes to an hour depending on the etchant.

Hi NurdRage. Thanks for this video. It help us a lot. Another important etchant used to make PCBs is Ammonium Persulphate that can be made by an electrolysis of a solution of Sulphuric Acid with Ammonium Sulphate. Could you please show us how to make it that way? Is it very complex?

Great Video! Only miss an approximation of how long these etching cycles took. For one you said that it is extremely slow, but how long did e.g. the Nitric acid take?

I like the CuCl2 And HCl. Its pretty.

Once again Thank you!.

Hi could you break down and explain dmso (dimethyl sulfoxide) (DMSO ) yeah cousin of mine dilutes this with distilled to about 75% and he swears by it to cure his aches and pains however he said that it or transfer any type of chemical through your skin to your bloodstream is this true and why

awesome thank u ......

I'm looking for a copper etchant that doesn't attack tin, and vice versa. Could you make a video explaining that?

thankyou for posting this video

will you make a more detailed video about the copper cloride(reusable) etching process?

I couldn't resist and clicked it!

hmm i'm wondering if any of these will also take the drawn on/ironed on/ printed on circuit (sharpie/ink) off ... will some work better with sharpie, printer ink, etc..

You're welcome :) i spent weeks seeking for such informations, finding the right lexic in use, and avoiding bubble filtering limited results. Another book, easily found on the net : "PIHR" by Bob Willis, it stands for "Pin In Hole Reflow", 163 pages

Wow,,how the hell do you know so much?So much chemical action,,good sheeeit

EPIC VIDEO :D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually sodium persulphate is pretty cheap on the webpage I order from, I stick with that (and it can be used in exotic magnesium flash powder as it is a strong oxidiser)

I used ferric chloride to etch mild steel yesterday, will these other enchants react with steels?

You are so clever .

Hi. Do you know how the copper plating of the PCB vias is done? Great videos!

Which etchant was the fastest? Getting fine traces requires a fast etchant.

I've been electrolytically w/CuSO4 dissolved in water. I've kept the bath for future use. Will this decay over time?

if i ever get smarter i might have to try some of your vids

I have been using sodiumpersulfate with an air bubbler for years. After use I add sodiumhydroxide to fell all copper as oxide. The copper goes in a jar and the neutral sodiumsulfate water can go in the drain. No nasty fumes and I can order both chemicals by the kilo online.

Hi. Thank you for your great videos. Help me build copper and copper alloy compounds.

for that last one can i use sodium nitrate instead of kno3?

i have used the hcl + h2o2 method and have found that using two parts h2o2 to one part hcl etched faster than a 1:1 solution does, and pure hcl takes forever to etch.

Any idea why my HCl & H2O2 turn yellow-brown as soon as they mix?!? Still etches though

I have no idea what I just watched but I definitely watched it

Hey NurdRage, is it possible to use 12M Hydrochloric acid for the first etchant? Thanks for a great vid!

What about other methods, sodium persulphate, or ammonia persulphate?

Copper (II) Chloride can be neutralised with sodium bicarbonate (makes a green sludge), or simply place wire wool into the solution until all the copper has stuck to it.

You gotta make more gold recovery/refining methods and techniques. Esp when it comes to dropping certain metals out of solution using copper, zinc, steel etc. Alot of people use the Acid Peroxide -> Filter -> HCl/Bleach process and there is not alot of decent videos on exclusively the methodology of using said process. Please please please make some more!

This will come in handy

I need to make some pcb's: How much nitric acid and ... water? Or something else? Thanks!!

Iron (III) chloride sold as PCB etchant is usually labelled "ferric chloride". Since the primary audience for a video like this is the DIY electronics community rather than the hobby-chemistry community i used the more common name the DIY electronics community knows. Just like how if i made a video for french people i'd try and speak french.

Damn it!! I had to click the thing at the end, couldn't resist Dx

whats the brown/black particles that come off the copper just before turning a white-ish color? Is it just color or a metal salt? just wondering

Another popular etchant is ammonium persulphate. Where does this fit in ?

What etchant was fastest? Can you make uv photoresist?

very cool vid, did you know they call h202 mixed with h2so4 purona water because it will burn your arm off lol, great video's friend im currently attempting to build small complex parts using ac electrolysis of brine solutions on the order of 50% salt , yes i said AC electrolysis at 60Hz ,any way friend it only works with brass, brass is disolved at an amazing rate in this process up to grams per minute, i suspect the chlorine gas is reacting with the brass any thoughts friend???

In the Potassium nitrate + HCL version, is there any good way to make pure CuCl2 and KCl from the reaction, or is it all mixed up and impossible to separate the two chemicals?

I love your videos dude, where do you buy or get all the chemicals you use?

would it be possible to show Ozone reactions? or production of Ozone?

NurdRage, thank you for posting your videos! They are very useful and well done. I have a question though: can you make a video or help show me how to properly dispose of concentrated chemicals such as muriatic acid, ferric acid hydrochloric acid ect. thanks!

Absolutely amazing how Darth Vader changed into such an Expert for chemicals!

I love that you linked to scishow in your annotation. Hate and love cancel out, right?

I have a question how can you make iron acetate i tried to research about it but i didn't find any thing???????