Thanks man. I also make shadow box frames for them using a similar method, but I haven't made a video about that yet. I guess I should do that too.

Thank you. I try to pepper tips here and there to make it interesting.

Awesome. The hardware store is your best friend when art stores are closed or far away. There are lots of potential painting surfaces. I will even prime heavier paper and paint on that at times.

My first art teacher can't paint any more. It's really sad. I hope you make some canvases for her. There's nothing like a large canvas.

Thanks. The main thing is to just watch the canvas tension as you stretch.

I've got new vids to explain all of that. You may have watched before I recorded the other parts.

+ahartis I just use the most basic 1" webbing straps. They don't have a ratchet on them. Any hardware store should have them.

You're welcome. Let me know how I can help.

Glad to help. Let me know if you hit a snag or have further questions.

I don't find a need for hardwoods in the understructure. Frames, yes, use poplar, aspen, oak, or whatever local hardwood you have. Pine is also lightweight, which is good.

+Ola Sarri general recommendation would be about 4 feet in any direction. You can tell by the way the bars feel. If they have any flop in them, use crossbars.

Excellent, will try this next time I build stretchers!

+Joe Luz not that hard to avoid them. Just look before you cut.

I know--it's just not as dramatic on film (kidding). I have a new saw now with a better guard. The guard on this saw kept catching the wood and causing it to kick back, so I took it off for a more predictable feed. It was a calculated risk at the time: use an unsafe guard or use an unsafe but more stable unguarded blade. Both were bad options.

I cut 45 degree angles for the corners. The bevel on the bars themselves is about 20 degrees.

Maybe? I would probably do that anyway, even though it's not too necessary. It might cast shadows in raking light.

No. If you painted on an unstretch canvas, you don't need the bevel. The bevel is to keep from hitting the bar when you paint, leaving an unsightly line.

Always a good safety tip. Works best on a decent saw.

That's a good question. Frames are usually composite wrapped in a decorative veneer. That makes them pretty weak, all things considered. If it's a solid wood frame (rare), you could probably reinforce it some and try it out.

I leave the brads in. Usually you won't hit them. If you do, the saw goes right through them. You can also mark the general area of your cuts first and put the brads on either side.

I'll have to get back to you on the strap. I just get them at the hardware store. Staples I just use the standard 3/8" ones

@@MeadMcLeanthank you so much. I found that strap on Amazon but I ordered a clamp set.

How about a skilsaw?

You can use hand tools. 1x2's come ready-made. You can get a miter box for $20. A hand planer is pretty cheap. You can use a hammer and nails instead of a nail gun. This is what I did for several years.

You don't. This has been discussed to death in other comments. The short version is if you stretch correctly, you don't need to keep stretching later.

There are no wedges. Older comments debate the stretcher/strainer bars options to death. My take is: stretch correctly, store correctly, and you don't need to adjust tension.

You're welcome. Let me know how else I can help

You're welcome.

You stretch the canvas. Movable corners=warp.

Thank you!! I look forward to it.

Yeah. The general idea is to prime from the center outward. Never dilute your gesso. Do 3-4 layers. Don't sand.

great video. the only thing I have to say is you want to sand your miters where you glue. you will have a better glue joint that way seeing as you are doing a simple butt joint.

The problem with sanding the miters is that you inevitably change the angle slightly, thus creating an incredibly annoying gap that's tough to deal with. I don't find that not sanding has created any problems. If you wanted to get really picky with it, you could use a biscuit joiner, but I've found that that's overkill for more purposes.

Yes. It's possible to do on a table saw or with a circular saw with a guide. You can also buy triangular cut moulding and glue/nail it to a 1x2.

You're welcome. Let me know if you have questions.

You're welcome. There are other methods depending on the tools you have available. Lately I've just been using a circular saw for almost everything, and it's almost more precise.

Yes. Measure from the very longest point of the stretcher. Make sure both sets of bars are the same length. Then measure corner to corner on the outside when they are assembled together. If the two corner to corner measurements are identical, then it's square.

People kept leaving pianos at the studio. We'd rip them apart and use bits for sculptures or whatever.

It's unnecessary if you stretch the canvas correctly in the first place.

There are ways to do this with dowels and turnbuckles.

Yeah. There's a few ways. Lately I've just used a circular saw.

@@MeadMcLean Thanks. I guess the saw is better in terms of dust though, so I might invest in a saw..

I got a battery powered circular saw, and it's awesome. I use a guide with it to make the cut, and it's actually more precise than with the table saw

@@MeadMcLean Oh nice, so is the guide just the adjustable guide plate on the saw itself? Or did you make some sort of jig

I used a bit of 1x2 and 2 clamps to make one. They have guides you can buy though

You're welcome.

Thanks!

Just the standard t-50 3/8" staples. Those are probably even a bit too strong, but they tend to set pretty well, so I continue to use them.

You're welcome.

You can get canvas almost any size. Rolls come in huge dimensions, you can use dropcloths in a pinch, and if you really need to do something big, I've heard of artists hiring sail-makers.

+SayWhaat everybody always freaks out about this, but the blade guard and splitter on this machine is god-awful and caused repeated kickbacks from boards getting hung up. I have since gotten a better one.

You'll probably find increased structural integrity with a greater depth. The main thing is to make sure that your blade is at a perfect 90 degree angle upwards (use the speed square or a machinist square to line it up if it's a double bevel miter saw). You can also add crossbars that go across the center at a 90 degree angle, if needed.

@@MeadMcLean Thanks for getting back with me so quickly, especially on an 8 year old post (as pointed out by Gary)! Glad to be wrong on joint strength, and I suspect I will be smugly laughed at when I get home. I was thinking about adding cross bars, especially on the bigger frames. One other quick question on material/wood selection; what are your thoughts on using ripped cabinet quality plywood over the "better boards," and should I stop myself from even considering subbing in (much cheaper) furring strips in parts of this process?

Yeah good questions. And yep, I'm still running the channel (it's a big long-term project). I would use furring strips as a minimum. Store-bought canvases use finger-joint moulding, but if you use furring strips, you may have to do more to correct the warping. You might also need extra bracing.

@@MeadMcLean I figured that would be your suggestion (they are cheap pieces of wood for a reason). Thanks again for the help!

No problem. Maybe the adage is: furring strips for practice, good stuff for professional work.

Ron Tocknell Painters as early as Titian and as late as Rembrandt were very likely using "strainers" and NOT keyed stretchers. Titian is known to have used canvas because he painted some extremely large pieces and canvas allowed light-weight transport when needed. Rembrandt's "The Night Watch" is 142.9 in × 172.0 in (not sure if that measurement is before or after it had to be cut) and was most likely originally on a strainer and NOT a keyed stretcher. Keyed stretchers only started to appear around the 18th century. And yes, painting on panel was common early on but the earliest paintings on canvas actually date to the 14th century (1300s). Yes, using a keyed stretcher might help to prevent cracking but I don't think it is the only, or even the best way to prevent cracking. I am sure that Bouguereau was painting on keyed stretchers but I also know that many of his paintings are severely cracked. I once saw Caravaggio's "Supper at Emaus", a relatively large and much older painting than Bouguereau's, and it had insignificant damage due to cracking. The best way to prevent cracking is to follow the rule of fat over lean and to paint with the least amount of layers possible. Seeing Caravaggio's paintings in person you come to realize that he was painting in a very simple and straightforward technique that used perhaps no more than 3 or 4 layers while anyone who's seen Bouguereau can tell right away that he was painting in many, many layers and glazing/scumbling heavily. Bouguereau was practically asking for his paintings to crack. I find it troubling to insist on something that simply isn't true. And to think that there is such a thing as the secrets of the Masters (keyed vs not keyed). There are no secrets...only common sense. Here is a very good history of stretchers/strainers: www.conservation-wiki.com/wiki/PSG_Stretchers_and_Strainers_-_II._Factors_to_Consider

Besides Caravaggio, within 3 seconds of walking into any museum that holds early European paintings you can spot paintings on canvas by lesser known artists that have virtually no damage...paintings that were very likely done on strainers and NOT on keyed stretchers. I would also venture to say that if restorers encountered keyed stretchers they were very likely not original to the paintings.

On paintings that are pre 18th Century, this would certainly be true. But the keyed bridle joint came into use about mid 18th Century and, by the 19th Century, they had become the standard. So you're right in that many of the keyed stretcher bars encountered by restorers were not original to the painting... and there is a reason these painting were transferred onto keyed frames (usually glued to a more robust canvas support).It was done to address the inevitable sagging.

From my experience, the only reason I've seen for re-tension is an improper stretching job in the first place. Generally, it's uneven tension that's the problem. Typically, this is caused by starting the center too tight and loosening as you approach the corners. You see ripples around or over the edges. The other problem is storage--anywhere that varies too much in humidity and temperature is tough on canvas.

I've never had to use keys and don't know anyone who ever has. I did experiment with them once, and if you use them enough to make a difference, you then, have a mess.

True. Ripping 2x4s can be tougher depending on the saw. The wood quality is also not as good and tends to be more warped.

That's weird. I've done stuff over 8' with corner braces and one cross bar to support the center.

No. If you get the initial tension right, you won't need them.

Any 45 degree miter saw, a speed square, a tape measure, some straps or strap clamps, a nail gun, a staple gun. You could do it just as well with simpler tools.

Furring strips are probably even smaller than the standard 1x2. I also sometimes cut down a 1x4 to make two 1x2s, and they wind up being a bit wider that way.

I meant the nominal dimensions. It would be crazy difficult to get an actual 1x2". You would have to get it custom milled from a 2x4". Hope everything works and you make some good bars.

@@MeadMcLean -- even more amazing that you are answering a many years old topic within hours, Mead! Thanks for clarifying that quite obvious detail. I do expect to make my first Mead McLean style stretcher within a few weeks. It'll probably be a 4' x 5' one so I'll get to try most aspects of your system. I had ordered a roll of 61" x 25' double-primed canvas before seeing your video on priming, so don't know if I'll do the extra Gesso treatment you advise or not; I probably should. Gary

I used to cross my hands as well! ... Now i refrain from risking the one hand I have left

Well...don't cross your arms either.

Thanks for the compliment. Let me know how I can help.

So far everything has aged fine. I don't think anything has warped too badly, but then I do keep everything in climate control. I just use 1x4's that I cut down the middle to make two 1x2's. If you didn't have a table saw, you could buy two 1x2's and some 1/4 round moulding or the moulding that's triangular and attach it to the 1x2 L to create the same thing. The strength comes from the symmetry of it, so if you used a 1x2 and a piece of 1/4 round moulding, it would definitely warp. And yes, I still make everything the same way. Haven't changed it since I first learned the technique in 2004.

@@MeadMcLean since 2004 rests the case for me. I'll follow your steps

Exactly how my painting professor taught us back in the late 70's. It adds that lift for the canvas, and eliminates the need to bevel the 1x2. They are also a little less weighty on a finished large canvas. I can't find anything on KZfaq for using quarter rounds, so I'm happy to see someone else asking the question. We were also given the option of using brick moulding, minus the quarter round.

+Janet Wise used to use quarter round. The bars warp and at least one corner will pop off the wall. There aren't 2 directions of structural support with quarter round. This is why you use the method of 1x2s in an L shape. They won't warp unless left in a highly humid area.

Yes. I stopped using quarter round. It's good for studies, practice, throwaway paintings, etc. The problem is that there is nothing to keep it from warping with only quarter round. Typically, a corner will pop off the wall when you hang it up. This is why I switched to the L-shaped bars. They have more structural integrity.

Thanks so much, Mead

I think he was saying use quarter round on top of the 1x2 and glue it down essentially creating an L shape. However quarter round is notoriously warped to begin with so wrangling it in place can be a pain. Great Video by the way

Okay I just thought of another way to ask my question- Are we arranging the warps so that they arch concavely toward the center of the panel or canvas?

That just means that when the wood warps, you want to make it flare outward from the center of the L in both directions so that the warp of each board corrects the other rather than pulling in the same direction.

Yeah. The side ones should bend inward toward the center of the canvas/panel. The back ones should bend inward toward the front surface of the canvas/panel.

@@MeadMcLean Thank you Mead, for putting effort into sharing your knowledge. Wonderful to have the "mystery" removed and have a step by step plan to build stretchers. I'm with @sonambolma20032000 on this question, and am glad she asked it... I see your replies, but would it be possible to add a sketch in the comments? or a link to a sketch, a quick one, that visualizes your answer: "The side ones should bend inward toward the center of the canvas/panel. The back ones should bend inward toward the front surface of the canvas/panel." For example... the "bend"; if I were to place a piece of wood on a flat surface with the "bend" FACING UP... would the middle of the board be UP and a gap appear between the middle of the bar and the surface, or would the ends of the bar be UP, allowing the bar to rock. Maybe another way to ask this... for the SIDE, does the concave side face the center of the canvas, or does the convex side face the center of the canvas? I apologize for not getting it from the description provided.

Your question makes sense. My answer wasn't as clear as it should be. Maybe it doesn't matter which way you oppose the warping, but I prefer to do this: From the SIDE: the center of the board goes concave to the center of the canvas. From the BACK: the board you put on the floor. The center would go concave in the center, bending up toward where the canvas will go, so the middle will lift off the ground.

I used to do biscuit joining, but I've never encountered a noticeable difference. Maybe if you over-stretch the canvas. If strength is a worry, a frame will also help.

In reviewing comments on this one, I came across this again and realized I didn't fully respond. When I take stretchers apart, because they're stapled and glued, I have to remove the staples first then bang them multiple times with a hammer to get the glue to break, and sometimes it splinters the wood with the glue remaining in place. Worrying about engineering these things is massive overkill. We're talking small amounts of distributed forces, after all.

Not the ONLY way. It's hyperbole. But it's the most reasonable way I've used, since I don't like to change the tension on canvas and it fights warping.

The table saw pictured had a sub-par guard that would cause kickback 1/3rd of the time. I replaced it with a circular saw and a long metal bar to use as a guide.

Thanks

At the time, I was using an electric nail gun that wasn't powerful enough to push the nails all the way through.

The problem with this is that the canvas tension will absolutely warp the bars. One of the corners will pop off the wall when it's hanging.

+Blossom Blossom Good question. I would turn the L opposite and bevel the long side. This would make the depth about 3" and give you more structural support because the corner is stabilized on a longer edge. If it's really, really big, you might go with a 4" depth. On a 4" depth, you could also turn your diagonal supports up as well. You may also have to add straight crossbars as well and use diagonals to support the crossbars. It could get very elaborate.

I assume you mean the bit about opposing the warp? Most of the time, the wood will curve in a long C-shape. You put the center of the C's together. So it will look like the ends aren't even touching each other. This allows for the 1x2s to bend each other straight. I have some old footage I may be able to put together for some more basic methods too. I do things a bit differently now as well. As for reactions on here, there's just no telling how/why people react. So far it's mostly been positive. Savings is big overall for the quality, especially if you're making big pieces. The savings is less if you're making small canvases. If you're just learning, acrylic on paper is cheap and good for throwaway studies.

If you don't do the L-shape, the canvas will warp and at least one corner will pull off the wall.

Not really. The "face" part in your example is actually inset within the outer perimeter created by the beveled boards, so it's not really a face. A face frame is more of a cabinet maker's thing, and it's not effective with something this narrow/shallow, even if this were done with a face framing method, which it's not. If the perimeter were constructed first, then the other boards inset at 90 degrees, it would be a royal pain to get it all to line up perfectly. If you did it the other way around, creating the inset first, they would warp like crazy and you'd still have to have beyond precise cuts to get it to fit. Believe me, what's in this video is the way to do it unless you want to just buy pre-made bars or full canvases.

@@MeadMcLean no offense meant but you mean with little access to a proper shop. With the addition of a dado set a few jigs and a jointer you could rip down a couple of 2x3 and ended up with a professional quality frame. Hell if you just used biscuits instead of just glue and nails you'd have a better end product.

Nobody ever really has access to a proper shop. I've done it every which way, and I don't find biscuits to add any noticeable stability. They just end up being an extra step, an extra tool, and more time involved. I also think artists would rather spend more time painting than in the wood shop, so this simplifies the process a lot. Also, the L's in 1x2's can be used as panel supports if you don't bevel them. I used to just make a bunch of un-beveled L's and keep them around until I needed to make a canvas or a panel. The next video I'm working on for stretcher bars is how to do this process without any power tools. There was a 2-year period where I just made these by hand, and it actually didn't take much longer as long as I kept my saw sharp.

That's fine. You can just use a circular saw with a guide on it. A circular saw is cheaper and potentially safer with less of a kickback potential. These days, I just use a battery powered circular saw for the bevel cuts and the 45 degree cuts.

I do the L first because they can be used for panels or canvases. Sometimes you just need a panel. It's also a bit easier to put the L together when everything is 90 degrees.

The L shape with a bevel is good no matter what the size because it allows air to get between the canvas and bars reducing moisture which will ultimately deteriorate the canvas.

Not true. You can miter with a hand saw and miter box, rip the angle with a circular saw and guide (or use corner round on top of the L), tack the L with nails, and keep the strap clamp the same.

My shop teacher used to say: You can't cut a board longer.

@@MeadMcLean My dad used to say "I cut it twice and it's still too short!".

Btw, any tips on how to get a staple out of a hand? cheers

Never seen anyone staple their hand, but a co-worker of mine did put a nail through this finger with a nail gun. Fortunately it wasn't through the joint, so he healed up in a couple of months without issue. Just gotta be aware and undistracted, and that will help avoid most safety issues.

Idk, Mead, that was a little robotic of a reply. I guess I have to let you off since you don't know me, but not one lol? haha I was oc joking. Now, I'm in the same position as you, idk you so I'm actually not sure if you were following along or trying to be polite about a viewer's stupid question, lmao. I really liked the video. I'm a big picture guy.(no pun intended) So when i'm getting into details I need it explained well and thoroughly. Mission accomplished, hands and fingers all good. q=-D Tx, man. Now.... time to create a masterpiece! Peace

I've heard pulling helps? But for real if it does happen, leave it in there and head to an ER. The worst thing you can do with a puncture is try to remove it (if you do, it will bleed like crazy).

No worries. I knew you were joking. I'm working on a video about priming canvas, which seems simple, but there are a few common mistakes I see that run counter to the point of priming. Eventually, I'll do a traditional rabbit skin glue and oil gesso priming video.