Hideki Shinichi shipping the waste back and forth will cost half a spool alone, if not more. Not cost effective. XD

My thought was...is it even cost effective to recycle old filament?

I look at it like bread. Even if small extruders were to become as easy to use as a bread maker (get ingredients, mix ingredients, put in machine at manual specified temperature and time/speed) - a lot of people have no interest in making their own bread. It makes sense if you want to use a specific type (not a lot of manufacturers state if they're using 4043D, 3D850, 3D870, or what they are using - so if you know you want the properties of a 3D870 - making it yourself is the way to know). It makes sense if you want to make a more off the wall type not generally produced like MABS, ASA, or something like wood filled PETG. It doesn't make sense if all you want to do is grind up some failed prints.

They would not want to run plastic through their machine that random people sent in. Who knows what got in it, on it, or if the person accidentally threw in some PETG or ABS in with their 'here's my box of PLA'. Not to mention the shipping fees both ways, having to mix in raw resin with the recycled, and extra labor in trying to get the settings just right for whatever type of specific resin type (not all PLA is the same) you sent them. Just wouldn't be worth it.

ualdayan exactly, quality control nigtmare

James Tanner good call this is what I was thinking too, it needs a length where it is allowed to run straight and be cooled. If you look at industrial extruded products like glass (sheet) and Aluminium that is how they work. It may be a good idea to use smooth cooled rollers with a gearing (so both sides are driven) to form the meterial. It is a shame this won't do what we need at the moment, recycled material could be used for infill or support really well on a multi material printer or for some interesting colour combinations.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, if the machine had it's own winding spool, and a device to accurately measure the diameter exiting the nozzle it could maintain consistency by increasing or lowering tension applied by the spool. Maybe a double extrusion method might be required, a rough extrusion onto a spool, then hook that spool up to a standard printer heating head/nozzle and then have automatic increase or decrease of filament disposition speed based on measured diameter going into the hot end. But thats more added complication. I think cheap filament recycling is only doable if you just want low accuracy bulky prints with a wide nozzle. Use a machine like this to make pellets, then set up your printer to work straight from those pellets, it won't be terribly consistent but it will work. Perhaps well if you only want .5 mm accuracy.

I wonder if you could just extrude into a teflon tube of the appropriate inner diameter, so that it's cool when it exits the other end. (Note: OP is not an engineer.)

James Tanner I was thinking Teflon tube too but even though it's sliippy it will still cause drag. Moving wheels, would allow precice clamping to form the right diameter and if they were aluminium with a fan blowing through/over then they would contact cool the filament and then run through tefalon tube to a printer/spooler. There is imho a need for a grinder like that used for meat above the hopper on this, then you could break up the waste pla and then grind it into the hopper. From what Joel found though differently sized place chunks melt at different rates so this grinding action needs to produce uniformly sized pla pellets. There are some good cd shredders that produce uniformly sized output. Someone out there must be reading this and have the ability to make one. If you are there is money to be made here, none of us want to be wasting material.

MarcAFK I've been thinking that pellets may be the way to go too. Couple of things came to mind. 1 the weight added to the print head cannot be too much. 2 measuring of the filiment output can be done with motor back pressure/resistance from the extruder (molten plastic stage) and maybe a gear sensor or an optical motion sensor through something like a tefalon tube. 3 retraction may no longer be available without a dual extrusion setup where one feeds into the other (as you suggested).

bdub z it's a new product a pioneer later in the future I'll start better ones more reliable one

Its not a new product though, sort of. The Filastruder has been around for a long time now, and works ratehr well, especially if a couple of the options like the motorized spooler and tension detector are used. While I'm sure these filament recyclers are much more complicated than they seem, how hard can it really be to heat scraps, and use a low geared auger to force them through a die?

@@zybch > how hard can it really be to heat scraps Probably not hard (I really have no idea). But, to get beyond the "extrudes correctly about 20% of the time, takes a month to produce enough filament" stage? (Presumably that second bit means it out-gases/wastes too much of the input filament in the making process - or it just gunks up the auger slowly that needs to be cleaned once or twice a week). That's probably more difficult (aka expensive). As expensive as Filabot stuff? I don't know. $750 for the EX-6 extruder screw seems awfully pricey for a (albeit very well machined) screw. (www.filabot.com/collections/filabot-core/products/ex6-extruder-screws).

They would be better off making it completely open source etc and people contributing to it. They are basically charging for a prototype that doesn't work at the moment.

Cnc kitchen has a better unit.

Your view is actually that felfel developers must have.

I agree with you on all points!

You are absolutely right, and what it all boils down to is thoughtfulness, or rather the lack of, on the part of the product developer.

Touched all the right issues ... if the price point were closer to $100-150 US, it would be worth buying one and tweaking it in to make it work properly. However, for $700 it should be a turnkey solution that works out of the box. I’m a controls guy, too, and had a plastics professor that had a question on the exam “What are polymers?”. After elaborate responses by all students that got it wrong, the correct answer was ..... “many mers!” .....

20 years ago we automated several of our local pump stations. The number of feedbacks required increased every time you added something for it to control. And all of them had to have a manual override so that if the computer controller took a dump, you could operate it manually. Then just when you think all the bugs are out of the system, along comes a tiny spike at 0200 in the voltage that takes months of chart recordings to finally catch. Because it got past the power supply, the batteries, the opto-isolators, the filter capacitors and everything else that was built into the system controlled by an EMP hardened 386 processor. Addition of another capacitor finally caught the little bugger every time. But hearing an engine running at 1800 going to idle, the gearbox pre-lube pump kick on, the hydraulic clutch disengage, the vacuum valve open dumping the pump vacuum, and the alarms going off finally ended for the most part. Startup failures were even worse as the monitoring of all the parameters added more things that could go wrong. Adding one more required piece of equipment added almost ten more items that had to match to work. Now multiply that time 3 to 5 units at each location, and the requirement that all of them be controllable and monitored remotely over a microwave link. And just for good measure, some of us were also tasked with being able to operate any of the structures ( flood control gates or pump stations ) remotely over an area that stretched from Orlando to the Keys in case there was a headquarters system failure for the gates. Luckily I only had to take care of that one time. Bad thing was, it was on a day when the Area Director decided he needed to visit me. He got rather mad when he saw what I was doing as he was not authorized to even make the changes himself but yet I was ( a total of only about 20 people out of over 2100 employees could ). The whole system was password protected that had a daily change in the password. And none were allowed to give that daily password to someone who was not authorized. Even my supervisor and deputy area director were not allowed to have it so a person 3 levels down had more control they did. Their only way of overriding the system was to actually have someone go to the site and put it in manual control. Without authorization from HQ, that was a firing offense. :-)

3DSage filastruder?

Come on what a load of rubbish that is all that needed is a truck wiper motor a arcamedeian screw couple of heater elements and a good engineer to know what's needed, that was Chinese crap at its best hoping public will buy ha

Not sure I'm getting this Joel endorcing rubbish my hero telling me Chinese goods are good mmmm

Search for 3devo next 1.0 on Google

How did I endorse this, as at the end I said, "I do not recommend this product"?

That's exactly what I was thinking, there needs to be an extra roller after the plastic comes out of the nozzle to keep the filament moving and consistent.

I had thought that too, but, it's what the manufacturer recommends. Their recommended use is to let it extrude from a table onto the floor.

We have designed a special nozzle that allows to cool down the filament when it comes out. So, as you can see in our video (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gKtjqNNpnbKpmXU.html) once found the right temperature, Felfil Evo can work without a spooler or external cooling system, extruding from a table onto the floor.

also needs at least a fan to cool the filament quickly after it leaves the extruder, both things the Filabot and Filastruder have had for years.....

Yeah I'd say weld some support onto a 2 or 3 foot long section of angle iron so that it sits with grove of the V right at nozzle height and prop the whole thing up so that something like a 15 to 25 degree downward slope, I'd bet you could adjust the size of the filament a bit by doing that. I also think that the way Joel was grabbing the filament and moving it around also led to the wiggly and uneven result. Joel, you need to try this again and put some time into making that work. I mean realy, you don't have 6 hours to spend tinkering around with that thing, what do you do with your time?

I use a Filastruder and Filawinder too. Have done for a few years. They work. They are slow and prone to tangles, but they work. Joel's comment that this machine is a start implies that he has not had his eye on the subject. It's not a start. It's been around a long time.

Thanks guys great, you hit the target. Here we are talking about filament extrusion not about 3D printing. Our mistake maybe was to not clarify this HUGE difference. However, according with your experience, if first steps could be hard, then the process become easier and a good chance to learn about filaments and polymer and let you able to customize your prints.

I don't understand how he thought it would have an easier learning curve than a 3d printer. I doubt there was anything wrong with the extruder but with the user.

I have a filastruder too And i made my own winder and puller I use 1.5mm filament(i can tune to make all sizes) Its really consistent(+/-0.05mm) Plus the pellets are cheap 3$/kg Compared to 20$/kg Its not about ABS or PLA its about the MFI value of the plastic you use Thats why some people get bad print with some brand and good print with other brand They need to tune it according to the MFI value of the plastic and not by brand

Great comment Neelmadhav Dookhit, nobody ever talk about MFI ( Melting Flow Index), probably cause is not so easy to explain, but it is also one of the main aspect that influences polymer behavior, actually this parameter is used to define extrusion grade material.

To be fair it's Italian, so it's pretty first, functional second...

LOL I know that is the problem Italian, looks expensive works like crap. Joel knows how to build and setup a 3d printer so this should be much easier just 2 settings.

I'm italian... and honestly i feel ashamed that piece of crap pretend to be italian too. Not even mentioning the disconnected cable. 700€? I can build Lyman Filament Extruder V6 with that money.

@Daniele I've worked a lot with Italian companies and my comment was unfair and meant as tongue in cheek. OTOH Italian manufacturers do spend a lot more time considering the aesthetics of their products than others. When it works it's brilliant (ALESSI) and when it doesn't we like to make fun of it (ALFA ROMEO) 😜

dont be so fast with your judgement with italians, they had build Lamborghini and Ferrari ;D

even when this video came out there were machines available for this, Now there are stl files to print your own parts and build an effective filament maker out of an old 3d printer!

James Smith, do you think that he would have better results if the machine is placed on the edge of the table and let gravity pull the filament all the way to the ground, so it will always have the same tension in the extruder?

Well...gravity is a constant...but then every 4 ft or so would be an issue.. a puller that would give a constant tension would be the best idea. After the puller a driven wind up spool.

Exactly this. Without controlling the output, every time you move it, you’ll change the diameter and the angle.

www.3dhubs.com/talk/thread/which-shredding-and-extruding-machines-are-available-part-3

i would use something like a bullet blender. can literally turn any plastic into shards, beads, then grains, then dust in a matter of about 30 seconds.

Chrismofer OK but this needs to be plug and play for it to actually sell. Their own material didn't come out right. You shouldn't have to spend so much and then worry about stupid stuff.

what do you mean plug and play? do you expect to be able to put an entire footlong failed print in there sideways?

In reality the different sizes melts at different temps and pressures which is why you can run into problems.

How much did they pay you to say this

Yeah, like a lego-kind motorized spool winder?

Hi Pile of carbon, industrial filament extruders works this way but we decided to use a different philosophy: a small tool that could work by itself extruding from the edge of a table to the floor, and we use it for production. (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gKtjqNNpnbKpmXU.html) By the way we are developing a spooler that will make easier the extrusion process.

It doesn't turn into a rats nest and I told them the same thing when I got mine and the last I heard they haven't released the kit to the US.

Demeteus - agree, mine didn't turn into a rats nest on the floor.

I had a length of it that went over the edge of some stairs testing to see what I would end up with. Pics: twitter.com/Deneteus/status/993734117748609029

Ya you can make your own for much cheaper

If you really need a 3D-Filament Extruder then i can recomend this guy. He offers a DIY Mini-Extruder which can make 1KG 3D-Filament in 1 hour. Even PA12 and other 3D-Filaments you can do with this thing. I really can recomend it! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/apqfjZqFuNKnqGg.html

Hello dude

have you ever seen 3devo's machine? It can also extrude up to 1kg/hour and is an all in one desktop extruder. That extruder works very well and is really reliable. You can also make a lot of different filaments with it. Just look it up it's really cool.

Maybe you could make a video where you try to make one of these machines . It’s like the space race just with a filament recycler! (Btw in a huge fan)

Zion: Well, ironically, the machines are actually even more for making new filaments, out of new plastics. It's a great way to experiment with new plastics. The recycling part is definitely something you can do, but it's questionable how interesting it is to actually do that, because, while (for example) spools of PLA filament is pretty expensive, just PLA granulate (little blobs of pla, which you can throw in these extruders) are really cheap. So recycling is probably not worth it. But you should look up the 3devo machine on the internet or youtube, it's really cool! www.3devo.com

me too

Lukas if it did work right. It’s a real good idea and definitely goin in the right direction

You’d think but it’s 800$

Sideways Gamer get a filastruder instead cheaper and works

You'll need to make pellets first. It's not worth it. The machine costs plus the wasted time and energy vs the filament cost...even working in China at their wages it'd be more cost/time effective to just buy the stuff.

Oh no! What isn't working on your kit?

Thermal runaway - keeps overheating. I've been emailing support for a LONG time about it, and they've sent me two new boards (one I had to pay for) and a handful of other electronics like a new thermistor and heater cartridges. Really disheartening to spend so much time and money on something that, even when fully assembled like yours, doesn't do its job :( Hopefully someday it'll be so easy to recycle 3D prints that it's a no-brainer!

What firmware version are you using?

Deneteus Sorry - I wouldn't be able to tell you. I just received a new board from the Felfil guys which was supposedly tested, and it didn't work (even with all new electronics for everything else). They sent me instructions on how to flash new firmware using an Arduino, but my computer wont write sketches to it. If they actually did test it, it should have the newest firmware.....right?

Considering there isn't alot to the FEVO I would expect they sent you a new tested board. If they did send you a board that had the latest firmware I would make sure the XBOX 360 PSU they are using isn't the culprit. If you can't use an arduino then you should try using a USBASP programmer from eBay to do the job. I just verified that there is a port to the right side of the board when looking at it from the rear. Here is the official programmer. All the rest are clones. I use this to program all the 3D printer boards. www.ebay.com/itm/Official-product-USBasp-programmer-red/323209529275?hash=item4b40ca07bb:g:fjoAAOSwQaJXSIGT

A well designed machine doesn't need that. There are other filament extruders that run open loop without issues. But they cool the filament, don't have underpowered motors and power supplies and have a motorized winder.

Willie - for you, my friend, I will make it happen this week.

Thanks Joel, was pretty much going to 'ask' the same. :)

Oh man, my "whatever it is" will thank you! :D I was a bit overly harsh, but I think I may have snapped. Those holes, those HOLES!!!! LOL You are the best!

I highly recommend Wrigleys spearmint for hole filling - chew until flavor is gone & fill hole. Sands nice once it hardens....

Love it :)

Yes, that's why it started so squiggly. However, at the end when you see the long strands of filament, it was extruded over a table edge.

3D Printing Nerd Thanks for clearing that up... that's such a let down... i really wanted this nice and compact recycler to work at least for future purge blocks and waste etc

reduce the height and add a fan.

Hi Steven, yes Felfil Evo is designed to extrude from a table edge. In this video you can see how it works (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gKtjqNNpnbKpmXU.html)

Dear Nerys, you are right 3D printers could work also with a filament which is a little tiniest than 1.75mm. However extrude with a goal of 1.60mm (so with +-0.07 optimal tolerance 1.53/1.67 mm filament) is a little bit an hardcore solution, if it totally avoid that the filament get stuck into the printer’s hot end on other side it can influence the print results. What we suggested is to work trying to get the proper diameter 1.75mm and correct the settings only if its measure is over 1.80mm. About our geared motor, it produce a 23Nm torque in full load and, according with our tests it is enough to work with the majority of the 3D print polymers. For who those feel real makers we also provide a basic solution named “Basic Kit” that allow you to full customize the electronics control and alimentation.

Someone designed a filament width detection sensor that you can use with Marlin way back in 2014. A newer version can be found on Tindie. I have not tested this yet but I plan to.

We made some experiment with it! It's a good start but unfortunately it is really susceptible, also making an average of the read values. I'm not telling that is a useless project, just there's still some works to do in order to make it ( or something similar) suitable in our design.

I've built 2 variations of the lyman filament extruders that have been around for about 6 years now and they offer a lot more consistent results compared to this unit and at a fraction of the cost. This just looks to be half a machine without enough real design time put into it, maybe it will get there in the future and at a better price point.

It can also depend on nozzle size and layer height. If it's easier for the melted plastic to flow up and around the cooler filament up in the heat break (into the space that normally would be taken up with filament) rather than be shoved out of the tiny hole in the nozzle then you end up with nasty jams in the heat break from undersized filament flowing upwards.

Yeah, words and I aren't good friends sometimes :)

We can be friends Joel!

could you please repeat that?

Maybe next time we can send to you “polyethylene terephthalate glycol-modified” aka PETG 😉

Felfil, maybe next time you can send a machine that works and is not a 700$ scam.

IgnoreMyChan It even has a ferrule on it! That shouldn't fall out.

And it took for ever to extrude I like how he said it's well built then realized he was wrong

Ask most of the 3D printer manufacturers that same question. There isn't one out there that hasn't had QC issues.

Especially for 700+ bucks...

Wait this is 700+ USD??

Hello Jesse, if you have troubles while extruding please contact us, we can find a solution together!

Indeed, btw the components don't look 719 Euro's worth to me in the slightest. I guess because they will not sell a lot it has to be this expensive.

bruh I expected it to cost like 150 euro max but 700... it's definitely not worth that price

Hydric Acid.... waiting for GASP..... aka Water ;o)

@@gavincrouch Gotta watch out for that dihydrogen monoxide. I hear it's corrosive to most metals and deadly if inhaled.

@@qumefox LOL. Classic. ...Que California, demanding one more unenforceable ban...

Fair point :) Turns out the black shards of PLA weren't in fact a "cleaning" filament. I read wrong and just the first few meters of filament were considered cleaning. The black pla was suppose to produce good results

Thanks for clarifying. Your findings defiantly suggests this product isn’t really fit for sale, as it doesn’t appear to live up to it’s advertised claims! It would be really interesting to hear from customers who've bought the product in good faith of being able to: "make custom 3D printing filaments at home”, and: "save over 80% of the price of filaments spools”. I guess felfil should at least amend their advertising, to add: “YMMV”. LOL

Well, also to be fair, I would want such a device to re-use grinded stuff back into filament. Exactly like that cleaning stuff. So does that actually work, if it only works nice with perfect pellets than it's not about recycling anymore.

It's better to build a Lyman extruder that can extrude almost anything than it is to throw regrind into an extruder with a windshield wiper motor. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fpyYZNx139W0fYk.html

I'm not sure what the "purge" time is on this machine, but on the Filastruder, it takes almost 6 hours to "clean" the machine out... My extrusions looked terrible for almost 2kg of resin.

LOL!!

Felfil Evo doesn't need a cooler system : kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gadjfsljl6jXimg.html watch this video

I really hope so. I want an out-of-box experience like what they expect it to be. I think that would be cool.

Thank YOU, good sir.

What "proper supporting hardware" was he supposed to use? This machine is supposed to be a stand-alone out of the box working item. The manufacturer himself advises to let the filament fall to the ground. He respected all recommendations from the manufacturer and did corrections as they advised after he emailed them about his issues and still failed to come close to the advertised result. So please tell us what the manufacturer forgot to tell Joel to get it to work.

So you admit the manufacturer is lying about its own product abilities but you put the blame on the reviewer. That's an interesting way of thinking...

Hi Rooholla, this is exactly what we did, we developed a winder. Anyway the extruder can work alone, if used in the right way.

They would be the kind of thing that would be nice to have as say, a 3d printing group, than an individual.

I've suggested it to my local hackspace, but they say its not worth the cost... so I'm slowly getting all the stuff I need to build one and show them. but its an expensive process

theres this one www.filastruder.com/products/filastruder-kit?variant=338126174 Its a kit but it works better than this one and its cheaper, also i have not bought it, i have only seen videos on it

Filastruder is the only affordable one that actually works

I'd bet this one would work fine as well with the correct settings, that Filastruder looks like a good deal though.

peter geary let's try to develop one that works, patent it, and make a Kickstarter for it!

Jeffrey Moffitt as cool as that would be the costs to produce such a product would be massive, the issue is that currently the torque and power required plus the knowledge required to operate it consistently means that you'd have a very small target of actual buyers

I drew up a design that takes the torque factor out with a spring system. Imagine a vertical hot glue gun with a cooling tank below it with a hole in it leading to a spool

Well there is already a very reliable consistent desktop machine on the market. It's the 3devo extruder. Works really well, and you can throw all sorts of plastic in it to make filament from. Just look it up on the internet. Only con is that it's a little expensive, but it is a consistent desktop extruder on the market

Do you happen to know what the strongest formulation of PLA that I can order? I switched to PETG but I always wondered if there was an alternative.

240 meters is quite a bit, 1kg is 330m.

rdizzy1 yeah it's not nothing but that means you can't even produce a normal 1kg roll of filament before you HAVE TO turn off the machine. :/

Yeah it is to cool down the machine, only have to turn it off for a few hours and then back on, could potentially make 3kgs per day or so. Also if you watch the owner use this machine he says it is supposed to be used on the edge of a table, then filament will then spool up in a spiral naturally on the floor or wherever it is landing due to gravity, this will also even out the inconsistencies in the width of the filament as well. The dude in the video got it to 1.74 for instance.

I tried to let it spool on the floor - that's what the big bunch of filament towards the end was from. However, that did not work. There was no consistency, and the machine would shut down every few minutes for protection.

just like the 3d printers really.

You’re easily my favorite person right now.

nope. it' 719€ so more like: 861$... really!?

Whoops my bad, closed the page so quickly when I saw the price xd

hes playing devil advocate, sometimes its doesn't allow you to say exactly whats on your mind but does put everything into fair prospective, if the person doing the reviews is legit. Plus it helps keep the channels open to him from smaller companies seeing how he seems to take such a cautious stance with how he reviews items.

Agreed, nobody should consider buying this pile of shit

Hey Nick, I appreciate the kind words. DUDE, just as my editor, I was VERY MUCH doom and gloom after the first day. Wow. The second day I was a little more level headed, but, I still said I wouldn't recommend the machine. I don't ever want to bash something hard. That doesn't do anything good for the community or the manufacturer. My goal is to inform and for criticisms to be constructive.

I was getting good prints from my Flashforge Creator Pro in the first couple hours of use. I gave this a full day and another hour+ the next day. This is a real test of a real product. According to documents and the company, it is intended to work right out of the box. Nevermind the disconnected wire. What more of a "real test" should I have done? I tried everything in the manual, everything the company told me to do, everything I could think of in my brain. What else is left?

I think 'Rudolf' ( sorry .. hehe ) conducted a fair and balanced review. I'm sure the viewing audience can make up their own minds as to the worthiness of the product to achieve (or not) its intended purpose.

world is full of dumb sheeple

Michael Saucier People who know that Joel puts out good quality videos, consistently. I liked it immediately - it's a review from someone I trust. And if you're watching this on mobile, it prevents you from forgetting to like the video after having seen it.

Nuno Garcia. You misinterpreted my comment. Possibly due to the response from someone else that seems to have taken it the wrong way. I've been watching Joel from this 3rd video many years back and I always immediately like his content as its's always enthusiastic, truthful and informative. I was simply curious as to whom else likes his videos before watching them all the way through. #highfive

Michael Saucier Ah, I see. I misread it as "who even", instead of "who else". I'm sorry and stand corrected. #highfive

Everyone is entitles to their opinions. Interesting, my 2017 Subaru blew a rod through it's block with 4,200 miles. Subaru blamed my fuel, then the dealer and I'm still going through court to reimburse me for the 18k they charged to replace the engine. I would never recommend Subaru after what's transpired. Nothing is good 100% of the time.

So the V-belt pulley of the motor and the take up drum are fixed. The three piece V-belt idler moves closer or farther from the take up fixed pulley. the diameter of the two V-belts sum at the three piece V-belt idler is fixed but individually change. Speed changes . The idler measuring the loop of filament moves the three piece V-belt idler assembly.

A thought. The take up device above could eliminate the fixed speed pulley removing the filament from the water bath.