Making a Squier Bass into a Pre-EB Stingray
Рет қаралды 48,402
3 жыл бұрынThis is an experiment to see if it was possible to get the sound of a Music Man Stingray bass from a much cheaper Squier.
This video is a bit of a deep dive - I thought it might be helpful for anyone interested in what makes a Stingray sound the way it does. And more generally, ways to get your bass to sound more like any other bass.
But please feel free to skip straight to any portions of the video! No hard feelings. :) All of the talking is just to provide context, and more information.
The demos basically show the "steps" I tried before I was pretty satisfied with the sound - including passive non-Stingray pickups at the right position, then a passive Stingray pickup at the right position, then adding an active Stingray-style preamp/controls, and finally 100% matching the Stingray preamp/controls.
Let me know what you think!
Timestamps:
Stingray demo: 0:53
Fingerstyle demo #1, bass 75% treble 75%: 10:44
Fingerstyle demo #2, bass 75% treble 75%: 12:08
Fingerstyle demo #3, bass 50% treble 50%: 12:57
Slap demo, bass 75% treble 75%: 13:50
Conclusions, recommendations: 15:13
* You may be wondering why there aren't demos with more EQ settings. Honestly, they just weren't very interesting (e.g. bass 0% treble 0%), or they weren't very fun to listen to (e.g. bass 0% treble 100%). Hope the 2 settings I used were satisfactory.
More info:
Basses used:
1983 Music Man Stingray (pre-Ernie Ball), all original. Stock pickup and active 2-band EQ preamp. Strings: DR FAT-BEAM FB-40 roundwound (fresh).
2020 Squier Classic Vibe '70s Precision Bass ("Squier-Ray"). No onboard electronics - see video for description of outboard preamps. Pickup: Nordstrand MM4.2. Strings: DR FAT-BEAM FB-40 roundwound (fresh).
1998 Squier Precision Bass (5-pickup bass). Pickups: Five Dimarzio Area J pickups. Controls are the same as a stock Jazz (or Precision) bass, all passive except for demo using outboard 2EQ preamp (see video for details). Strings: DR FAT-BEAM FB-40 roundwound (fresh).
1973 Precision Bass, all original as far as I know. Stock pickup and controls. Strings: D'Addario ECB81 Chromes flatwound, 45-100.
Basses are direct into a Focusrite Scarlett interface. Only "effect" is some light compression.
Note, all basses are recorded with the Scarlett's input set to "Line", not "Instrument", due to the majority of setups being active preamps. Unfortunately, this also makes the passive settings sound a bit darker than "Instrument", which would normally be used for passive. For a fair comparison, I had to pick one setting for all basses, and picking "Instrument" would have made all of the active basses sound far too trebly. Just wanted to clarify why the passive settings may sound slightly dark.
If you're interested in the demo basslines, they're based on:
Fingerstyle demo #1: Moving Up (Donny Benet). Bassist: Donny Benet.
Fingerstyle demo #2: Konichiwa (Donny Benet). Bassist: Donny Benet. UPDATE: I got one of the notes wrong! See here for the right way to play it, by the man himself: • Donny Benét- Back in t...
Fingerstyle demo #3: Konichiwa (Donny Benet). Bassist: Donny Benet.
Slap demo: Reach Out (George Duke). Bassist: Louis Johnson.
Photo credits:
Louis Johnson photo credit and licensing information: Lioneldecoster (commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi... Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Stingray Pre-EB 2EQ schematic - By Bajaman. www.freestompboxes.org/viewto...
Stingray 3EQ schematic - By Dominic DeCosa. www.talkbass.com/threads/diy-...
Donny Benet: donnybenet/p...
Joe Dart photo: • Ernie Ball Music Man: ...
Squier Classic Vibe '70s Precision Bass: www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...
Nordstrand Audio MM4.2 Dual Coil pickup: nordstrandaudio.com/products/...
Mojotone Music Man Clone 2-Band 3-Knob bass preamp: www.mojotone.com/Pickups_x/Mo...
Bernard Edwards - From alchetron.com/Bernard-Edwards, photo credit unknown
Fender Vintera '60s Jazz Bass: www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/...
Sterling by Music Man StingRay Ray4: www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/...
Hofner H500/1 Vintage 1964 Violin Electric Bass: www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/...
Fodera Matthew Garrison Signature Imperial 5 Elite: fodera.com/products/matthew-g...
All other photos are my own.
Background music: Original (mine).
@PhuckHue2 3 жыл бұрын
The preamp schematic thats been circulating for decades has the wrong value output cap. Its 10uF not 1uF. At 9:35 its cap on the right side of the opamp. The key to the pre-EB sound you gotta have the Alnico pickup with extended pole pieces with each coil wound to 4K.
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the comment! You are absolutely right. Great info to share with everyone. FWIW: I just re-ran the circuit's frequency response with LTSpice to check the difference between a 10uF and 1uF capacitor. Interestingly, it looks like it makes a slight difference to the frequencies below about 30 Hz, i.e. extreme bass range. With a 1uF (per the error in the schematic), the bass is slightly lower, but the difference at ~20Hz is only ~0.1 dB, and everything below that is outside of human hearing range. Maybe that's why this mistake has remained for so long - the difference is so slight that people don't hear it as "wrong", and don't double-check. I'm pinning this comment; hopefully viewers will be aware of the correction. Thanks!
@Eugensson 2 жыл бұрын
>"Alnico pickup". Well the magnet does not affect the tone, it affects the output level (and therefore the signal to noise ratio). However, the louder the sound the better our ears hear extreme lows and extreme highs. This is why alnico might be percieved as "mellow sounding", in reality it is just less loud.
@PhuckHue2 2 жыл бұрын
@@Eugensson You made a contradictory statement. It doesn't affect the tone but the magnet strength makes it sound more mellow. So I was right
@Eugensson 2 жыл бұрын
@@PhuckHue2 I did not. My point was that the magnet type does not change the spectral content of the output signal, it only affects (in the linear way) the overall volume across the frequency range. If you want to imitate the ceramic magnets - make your amp louder, if you want alnico - make it less loud. Psychoacoustics work in a weird way - louder sounds are perceived as having wider frequency range.
@PhuckHue2 2 жыл бұрын
@@Eugensson Wrong
@vince8081 2 жыл бұрын
Another proof that 95% of the tone and sound is in the pickups/electronics and not the wood or construction. I only recognize a dynamic difference between a bolt-on and a neck thru. What a great, scientific and accurate work, welldone !!!
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Many thanks!! Yep - that definitely matches what I've seen from watching hundreds of YT videos about pickups, electronics, woods, etc., as well as from doing this project. Cheers!
@steveothebassist 2 жыл бұрын
95%, more like 99.9%.
@vince8081 2 жыл бұрын
@@steveothebassist Maybe not that much... if you put j bass pickups and electronics on a gibson thunderbird it will never sound like a jbass. I can bet money on that. It's not a wood deal but a construction deal to me.
@Eugensson 2 жыл бұрын
>I only recognize a dynamic difference between a bolt-on and a neck thru. Well, are we realy able to tell the difference? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pJZip6yeyMuXcXk.html&ab_channel=JimLill
@mbvglider Жыл бұрын
@@vince8081 Pickup placement and playing position are just as important, too. You can't place J-Bass pickups in a Thunderbird in the same positions that they'd be on a Jazz Bass without routing for new cavities. Then the moment you put it on your lap or a strap, you'll play it differently than you would a Jazz Bass because the instrument wears completely different on your body. If you could somehow equalize all these things, I have a feeling they'd be more similar than different. While different body shapes don't change your tone, they change how you interact with the instrument and how you play the instrument, so they do change your output sound way more than you can imagine. It's way more important than whether the neck is glued or bolted on. Think about it. If you could take a Fender neck and glue it in the pocket of a P-Bass body instead of using four screws, do you really think it'd sound that different?
@jordonjeschke 2 жыл бұрын
I didn't think that the P-Bass would look that good with a MM pickup but it really does! I'm definitely going to do a mod like this!
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks!! Good luck!
@Facu_Roldan Жыл бұрын
Looks just like the G&L kiloton
@Spazin0ut 6 ай бұрын
Wish you had a video on building that preamp. That’s awesome!
@burp1914 3 жыл бұрын
Something about the E string on the Stingray was different than the other basses. Great video!
@ravelitschimo 3 жыл бұрын
A very underrated channel. Very, very close.
@mikedeeez 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@marcusparnell2403 2 жыл бұрын
What a fantastic video. Thanks for takign the trouble to put this together. That was a lot of work. Fascinating stuff.
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Many thanks!!
@bassimprovjams3772 Жыл бұрын
I absolutely love these kinda videos! Being a stingray player, “mostly” and a stingray being my favorite tone, I highly respect these! I’d love to be this smart and be able to build this kinda stuff!!
@RobMods 2 жыл бұрын
I have a P parts bass that is set up as a 'ray. I've used it for stingray preamp testing for many years. A nice change I made was using a stingray style bridge. It made it significantly heavier, but does seem to get even closer to the stingray tone. As a tech, I've worked on several first gen stingrays in the last few years, and FWIW, the circuit that you showed that has been online for decades has some minor inaccuracies. The output cap should be 10uF. However this would only roll off audible amounts of bass if you were plugged into a very low z input. The other slight differences would not make much of a difference really, but if you are interested I have posted the schematic on my website. The old log taper pots from the 70's will have a very different taper from modern "audio" taper pots. With the controls set in the middle, there will likely be an audible difference. Also, electronics parts from the 70's have a much wider tolerance than even cheap modern parts, especially caps and pots. Thanks for an interesting video!
@navidamlani1616 Жыл бұрын
I was honestly shocked how close the parallel passive J pickups in the "music man" spot sounded to the actual Stingray. I love my EB 'Ray but I'm not a huge fan of passive pickups, so this gave me some ideas. Thanks for posting! Very cool stuff.
@thejoetandy 2 жыл бұрын
I can't begin to articulate how perfect this is. Thankyou so much
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@luigi.zanini Жыл бұрын
I'm used to say that in a bass with the same strings 99% of the sound is made by that pickup model in that position, all the rest (body wood, fingerboard wood, bridge, nut...) are legends only, and your video proved it...
@metropolitanmusicman9235 3 жыл бұрын
Bro your channel is so underrated, these vids are amazing!
@mikedeeez 3 жыл бұрын
Many thanks!
@FAMUCHOLLY 2 жыл бұрын
VERY cool video! I've always wanted that Stingray sound but did not want to pay that Music Man price to get it. I've looked for MM kits and body blanks, but no luck so far. THIS is the perfect solution... thanks!
@1thess523 Жыл бұрын
Check out Lowend Lobster channel because he did about 5 Sterling SUB Stingrays with different pick ups and preamps and man they get really sound good and even better than a lot of actual Ernie Ball Stingrays I've been able to try. I think the total average overall was maybe $500 including bass, pick up, and preamp. One thing is he only did the black body SUBS but I've found the older wood stained SUB basses feel and sound better when it comes to the stock bass and they are all the same price.
@briansong7137 2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating video I'll probably watch a few times. Much appreciated for all your work on this, I'm sure it was a lot of hard work! Don't see it mentioned here, I do think the Joe Dart signature is a ceramic, too.
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Oh, interesting. Thanks!!
@bradcarlson8349 3 жыл бұрын
I installed the MojoTone in a Ray 34 Silverburst with the stock pickup to replace the stock 3-band and it sounds the closest I've ever come to my old and missed '77 Stingray. Sounds amazing.
@mikedeeez 3 жыл бұрын
Nice!!
@barrygoodson4952 2 жыл бұрын
You can definitely hear the change. They are close but different. I heard the change but mixed the tone/guitar up. I thought the Stingray was the P and Vice versus. The Stingray definitely has a darker tone IMHO !
@Swammy-Tommy Жыл бұрын
I heard a slightly darker tone with the Stingray also. It sounded more punchy, but the P bass was real close.
@ewetoo 9 ай бұрын
I don't currently have a Stingray so these kinds of comparisons are useful to me, passive vs active, series vs parallel are important distinctions as well as pickup placement, subjects often poorly-understood amongst bassists. Stingrays are one of Leo's greatest achievements so I have to have one!
@robertmatthews2932 2 жыл бұрын
How on earth do you not have huge amounts more subscribers? Very interesting!
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@nickhall1115 Жыл бұрын
Great video. Thank you!
@baroqueguitarist5673 2 жыл бұрын
12:09 Konichiwa Mike. I love Donny Benet too. Awesome to hear you playing his stuff. Great playing
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Many thanks!! Yep, Donny's playing (and songs) are terrific.
@jackerez3537 7 ай бұрын
I had a similar experience to this, actually! I really wanted a Rickenbacker bass but didn’t have the money, so I got a Seymour Duncan SRB-1 bridge pickup and put it into a Squier Bronco. After around 12 hours of working on it (making a custom control plate, chiseling out the cavity, etc.) it turned out really well and sounds surprisingly similar to an actual Rick. Saved me thousands of dollars for a functionally similar sound (perhaps even better, in my opinion).
@57precision 6 ай бұрын
That's a really cool idea. I guess that the pickup on a bronco is roughly in the same spot as a Ric bridge pickup?
@vontinkles Жыл бұрын
Very cool! You sound like a radio DJ by the way... Thanks for sharing!
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Many thanks!! Cheers
@robbyblack2699 Жыл бұрын
That stingray is a beautiful guitar.
@guatobean2869 5 ай бұрын
This is such a sick video
@klaymeister Жыл бұрын
I enjoy your crazy mods. Please do some more for us!
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@andreasmou6539 2 жыл бұрын
Very nice video !
@cmcaudiobe Жыл бұрын
Very cool! I would love to hear the difference between a single J in the Middle of the MM position, to hear what the humbucking does. FYI a Wal uses 26mm spacing and an MM 23mm, This affects the phase cancellation
@martinheath5947 Жыл бұрын
You can put a MM style scratchplate on a P bass body, with controls mounted on a separate part of the original scratchplate suitably rounded off at the top. I've done it, looks pretty cool 😊 Would definitely work on this mod
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Oh, nice!! That sounds awesome - definitely would give it a cool unique look. Thanks!!
@MrFedoss Жыл бұрын
I've modded my cheap basswood Stingray clone EKO MM300 from a passive VVT config to a 2-band pre-EB. And wow, it is a beast now. Yes, it had that special "bite" before the mod, but that plenty of tone shaping options on fingertips with 2-band is killer.
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Nice!! Sounds awesome, congrats on turning it into a sweet bass!
@owenwilson8822 2 жыл бұрын
The only thing i dont believe is that that mint bass is pre-anything :) Really cool vid. Well done!
@Eugensson 2 жыл бұрын
This really reminds me the G&L Kiloton (a passive version of the L-1500)
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Ha, you're absolutely right. That's funny - I guess if you take a P-bass, and replace the pickup with an MM pickup in the "Stingray" position, it looks very similar to a Kiloton! Thanks!!
@edew3493 4 ай бұрын
Wowwww..!! My new mod project 👍
@arthurschwartz2755 4 ай бұрын
I own a pre EB early 80s StingRay and I couldn't tell the difference in the sound on my computers speakers. Also, the amp that is being used in the demo is certainly responsible for the type of sound you want to acheive. At least half of the sound is as attributable to the amp as it is the instrument itself. I also own both American Fenders and Mexican Player Fenders including both Precision and Jazz bases and I can't decern the difference between the American and Mexican Player series except for the high price points on the American ones. I always loved my pre-EB StingRay and it's remained my go-to bass over all these years. I've been playing bass since 1963.The StingRay just has the right feel. I love the neck on that bass, it's overall look and the simplicity of it's design. I'm not into bells and whistles when it comes to basses. I also own a Rickenbacker 4003, which has an entirely different feel and look to it. It also has sustain for miles due to its neck-thru design. However, the Rickenbacker has always been a little quirky when it comes to set up and adjustments. Lastly, aside from it's light weight, which is a plus and the fact that Paul McCartney used the Hoffner violin bass quite extensively, I personally don't like them.
@troytroy3066 2 жыл бұрын
It's all in the hands!!
@unclemick-synths Жыл бұрын
Great video 👍
@jonsidell3338 2 жыл бұрын
You should check out Paul Denman. His work with Sade is probably the fattest, juiciest stingray tone recorded. Their live recordings are superb.
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!! Totally agree. Paul Denman is a master of tasteful basslines. The bassline basically carries a lot of Sade songs, and his playing is rock solid. Your Love is King, Smooth Operator, Sweetest Taboo - all great bass work. And yes, playing live he got a few more opportunities to show off a bit. Cheers
@foxbat2549 2 жыл бұрын
Jon, I'm glad U mentioned Paul Denman. His tone is the quintessential Stingray bass sound at least for my ears. Just solid, no-nonsense playing with that Pre-Ernie Stingray. IMHO, EBMM has taken the Stingray too far away from the original vibe and feel of the Leo Fender/Tom Walker/Forrest White models. Again, thank you for your post.
@quickwashtheraccoon7601 2 жыл бұрын
the bass with the 2 dimarzios-jazz-single-coils sounds very close. the squier with the humbucker sounds almost the same like the music-man. but a tiny bit more intense. guess the humbucker of the music-man lost a little bit of the magnetic field. for my personal taste I would stay with the to single-coils. they have the most character for me and you have more possible sounds. great project man.
@e-changerauquotidien6304 10 ай бұрын
Beside the sound, this "MMpickuped" SquieRay is simply beautiful! 😍
@flintsteel 10 ай бұрын
Love the tee-shirt!
@mjolnircarlssen4211 6 ай бұрын
I can’t tell the difference. Kudos.
@plexibreath 2 жыл бұрын
I've done this very thing. I put a Stingray pickup in my red Squire P-Bass, but wired it passive like a P-Bass. I've learned I'll probably need to build the preamp as in passive mode it's not as much output as a P Bass. But I also put in a second pickup, a Fralin split '51 and a Telecaster style three way switch to switch between the pickups. My challenge now is to build in the preamp but have it only on when the Stingray is selected.
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome, your bass sounds great! Good luck with the preamp - yeah, that might be a bit of a challenge to have the preamp only affect the Stingray pickup. I guess you could wire up the Stingray pickup + preamp "upstream" of a pickup selector switch, but you'd have to still have separate passive controls for the P pickup - that's getting to be a lot of knobs. I actually just finished building the Stingray preamp into a separate stompbox, so that I didn't have to worry about fitting it into the bass itself. If you don't mind manually switching the pedal on/off whenever you use the Stingray pickup, this might work for you as a solution. If you'd rather not build it yourself, Master Effects makes a pedal called the Manta Ray that is basically a Stingray preamp in a stompbox. The 2-band version that I checked out isn't a 100% match for the "standard" Stingray preamp, but it's very close. Good luck!
@plexibreath 2 жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez Yeah, it can be solved but that means too many knobs. I'm going to start by making the MM pickup switchable to series, maybe that will bring it to the level of the other pickup. What chip did you use on the preamp? I assume the LM4250, I know they've been discontinued so I had a hell of a time tracking one down that didn't look to be a repackage of something close. I'll build the circuit on a breadboard first to see if I like it, and work out passive/active issue.
@robinhaag7918 2 жыл бұрын
I'm planning on doing something very similar with a JB body or a pb body made by warmoth with mm pick up routes and nordstran pups and a Eastman mm pre amp my only concern is the pickup location I'm just going to hope it gets me in the ballpark any advice would be helpful and your video is really informative
@grantkoeller8911 Жыл бұрын
I just subscribed to this channel. I have a music man style bass missing the pickup. However I have a P bass split coil, that I want to install, however they don't sell pickguards routed out for p bass pickups.
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks! A Stingray with a P pickup in the regular "Stingray" position would be really cool. That reminds me of one of the Stingray prototypes that Leo Fender made, except they mounted it in a "reverse P" arrangement (you can see/hear it here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jMeEaph6192ZfIk.html). If you contact a company that makes replacement Stingray pickguards, like www.wdmusic.com or www.thepickguardshop.com/, I bet that at least one of them would be willing to just sell you a Stingray pickguard with no pickup route. Then you could take it to a guitar shop; they should be able to do the P pickup routing in exactly the location where you want it. If you have a router or a Dremel, then you could also buy a P pickup routing template, and do it yourself. Actually, the pickguard company might be willing to do the P pickup routing themselves as a custom option too, which might be even easier. Whatever your decide, good luck! If you ever make a video of it, let me know, I'd love to hear it!
@het_gele_teken Жыл бұрын
Fun video Mike! Now I want to finish those MM preamps I have PCBs for... BTW, have you ever tried the Aguilar (AG-4M) MM pickup?
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks!! I have not tried that one, but the reviews are terrific. Maybe I'll pick one up at some point. Cheers
@RastaLlama Жыл бұрын
Donny benet is awesome I heard him first time a year ago. Very quirky fella😊
@NeskoTheMiki 2 жыл бұрын
Great job Mike! I like your videos. Would you like to share with us the exact position of the pickup? For example, measured from the 12th fret to the beginning of the pickup housing, or to the middle. Keep up the good work. Best regards!
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Many thanks!! Good question - absolutely, here are measurements from the 1983 Stingray. All of the measurements are made from the middle of the 12th fret. From 12th fret to neck-side edge of pickup: 321 mm = 12-41/64 inches From 12th fret to centerline of neck coil: 333 mm = 13-7/64 inches From 12th fret to centerline of bridge coil: 357 mm = 14-4/64 inches From 12th fret to bridge-side edge of pickup: 370 mm = 14-36/64 inches Cheers!
@NeskoTheMiki 2 жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez Thank you so much for sharing. Finally usable data for the original Stingray. Cheers!
@sixsentsoldiers 2 жыл бұрын
The CV precision bass is a great buy. Very cool.
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed, I was pretty impressed. Thanks!!
@salstalteri2676 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! In your opinion what pickup and preamp combination would you think would capture the modern stingray sound? I know everyone loves the pre EBMM sound but there’s something about the new modern sound that I love. Any suggestions would be great!
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!! Absolutely; there are tons of fans of both the "vintage" and "modern" Stingray sounds. The "modern" sound can be great too. My understanding is that the main differences between Pre-EB and the EB sounds are 1) the pickup changed from alnico V to ceramic, and 2) the preamp changed to the 3-band EQ version. You can get ceramic Stingray pickup replacements. Seymour Duncan makes one. I believe it's the SMB-4D, but double-check. Surprisingly, I don't think any companies make a "clone" of the 3-band Stingray EQ. I have heard that the John East MMSR 3-band EQ is a great replacement, but they say that the design is actually more similar to the pre-EB 2-band EQ (but with a 3rd band added). You could also check on eBay or Reverb for someone selling an actual Stingray 3-band preamp used. They come up for sale sometimes. Thinking outside the box - If you change your bass to passive, you could also use a Master Effects Manta Ray 3-band, which I believe is much closer to the authentic Stingray 3EQ. It's just in a pedal format (which is actually kind of nice). * NOTE - The newest Stingray Special basses actually now have a *neodymium* pickup, which also apparently sounds a bit different. Unfortunately, I can't find any company that makes replacement Stingray neodymium pickups yet. Hopefully they will be available a few years in the future. It would be nice to have the option. Good luck!
@Eugensson 2 жыл бұрын
It is also important to mention that EMG MM-HZ pickup has exactly the same resistance and inductance as the MM pickups, with the only differences being that it ises ceramic-steel magnet (instead of alnico) so it has slighly higher output, and it has a rail instead of metal pole pieces, but that shall not really affect the tone much, i believe.
@marciosouza8656 2 жыл бұрын
Man awesome comparison! You are a genius! What do you think about the Aguilar OBP3 ? Is It close to a Stingray preamp?
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!! My pleasure. I have not tried the OBP3 myself, but I saw LowEndLobster's video where he replaced the preamp in a Ray4 with an OBP3. I'd say it sounded very close to a 3-band Stingray preamp. I tried to look up the exact frequencies of the bass/mid/treble controls, and it looks like the standard Stingray 3-band EQ's frequencies are about 40 Hz / 500 Hz / 12 kHz (according to EB/Music Man). By comparison, the OBP3's frequencies are listed as 40 Hz / 400 Hz or 800 Hz selectable / 6.5 kHz. So the controls will sound a little different from a standard Stingray 3EQ preamp, just because they are boosting/cutting different frequencies. Still, even if the frequencies are a little different, it still sounded pretty "Stingray-like" to me, when used with a Stingray-style pickup, at the right pickup location. And a lot of people say that they really like them in Stingrays. (Also, it's a 3-band EQ, so it would be a bit different from the earlier pre-EB 2-band Stingray preamp.) Cheers!
@marciosouza8656 2 жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez Thanks for your response my friend. I watch all the Lobster mods and are really great! I have an Sterling Ray 5 (Sub) and think that a new alnico pickup with the OBP3 will be a good choice to upgrade my bass. Please mantain the good work in your channel. Salutations from Brazil !
@PhantterY Жыл бұрын
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@tumbleweedtumbleweed 2 жыл бұрын
Cool video! The Fender won’t fit in a Stingray case though… ask me how I know 😉
@jigzalmario4131 9 ай бұрын
Are you building a bass with both MM and P pickups in their right positions? Would be cool to see how it would sound in both passive and active electronics
@avh9394 2 жыл бұрын
This is really a cool experiment, that I would love to try! Do you have the original specs for the pickup distancing and heights? Or a link to it perhaps? I'd like to try making this from scratch, not sure what body type I want, but it looks sick on the P-bass, even the poo-poo brown colour looksgood! I googled but it kept sending me to the MM website,which other than PR videos, I couldn't find anything. Thanks!
@grantkoeller8911 Жыл бұрын
walnut finish
@leonkenens8275 2 жыл бұрын
cool project
@rudygracia5573 2 жыл бұрын
Pickup placement is key;The tone would've sounded MUCH closer if the pickup in the Squire were moved closer to the Neck.Ever see an Aria Super Bass?THAT thing has the MM style?pickup almost in the middle position!And THOSE basses sound Super Sweet!I had one,but it was too heavy,the pickup was too weak(no active electronics),and the neck was too narrow at the joint area.
@Mrjackniko Жыл бұрын
Man, what you did is awesome! I have a question and i apologize if what i am about to say is dumb. So i have a harley benton ray with seymour duncan ceramic pickups and it sounds nice. However it is passive bass. Is it possible to build this preamp and put it in an external housing and connect bass to it? would i get the same result or is this stupid?
@mattfoley6082 2 жыл бұрын
Even when listening for the change I really couldn't hear the difference. Well done. Where did you measure to determine the exact pickup placement?
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Good question. I measured from the nut to the pickup's magnet poles. Cheers
@mattfoley6082 2 жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez That's how I would do it, since bridge size and string length vary. re tone matching, I think pickup type and position are the biggest factors. I don't think active vs. passive or onboard EQ preamp vs. external amp matter very much. I have a 1996 EBMM Sterling with 3EQ and an OLP (passive Stingray copy). I can get the OLP to sound virtually identical to the Sterling by tweaking the bass amp's EQ. I don't think it matters where the EQ settings come from (preamp vs. bass amp). What do you say?
@Jaggerbush Жыл бұрын
Wow. I like the homemade one better I think. It’s brighter. I’m surprised. I noticed right away but wasn’t sure which was which.
@Somadict 7 ай бұрын
Great video!! I have a StingRay Erniball from 1992, but a luthier ruined the pickup. Is the Nordstrand mm4.2 pickup, the one that would be closest to the original sound? Do yo have the alnico III or alnico V pickup?
@japzproductions Жыл бұрын
I agree, to me the "standard" preamp was the closest sounding one. I wouldn't notice it if you put it back to back. how about the modern stingray 3 band preamp, where can you get clones of those?
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks!! Yes, I have always been surprised that several companies sell a clone of the 2-band Stingray preamp (or at least something CLOSE to the original 2-band circuit), but the only company I have ever seen that offers the 3-band version is the Master Effects Manta Ray. It comes in 2-band and 3-band versions, and it's in a PEDAL format, not an on-board format. I used to own the 2-band version - I traced out the circuit, and it was very close to the original preamp schematic, but included a couple of common "mods". I've never had a chance to try the 3-band version, so I don't know how close it is to the actual Stingray circuit, but it might be an accurate clone. Actually, after this video, I built the original 2-band Stingray preamp AND the 3-band Stingray preamp into separate pedals myself. That way, I could play the Squier straight into the either one, and compare the tones. I'll try to make a video of it at some point. I've been tied up over the last ~year with work and a house move, but hopefully I'll have more time in the future. Thanks!
@rafaelzepedabros 2 жыл бұрын
🔥🔥🔥
@1thess523 Жыл бұрын
That's should be a Stingray standard sound, I've played way too many that don't sound like this. Lowend Lobster did a really good Sterling SUB series where he changed pick ups and preamps in a few SUBS and they turned out really nice sounding
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks! Yep, Lobster's videos are awesome. Those SUB videos were really interesting.
@1thess523 Жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez after seeing his videos I was really itching for one of those subs to convert it but I ran across an old OLP Stingray for a hundred bucks, and even though it's passive it's still has that Stingray growl. Eventually I'll get an active one whether it's the sub or the Sterling
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
@@1thess523 Nice! The passive Stingray sound is definitely cool too; glad it's working for you. Good luck on the quest for the SUB or Sterling! Cheers
@1thess523 Жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez 👊👊👊
@1thess523 Жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez kzfaq.info/get/bejne/edlpdNeqqZe4aI0.html That's a short sound sample of that passive OLP
@BassmanII 2 жыл бұрын
Two other notable Stingray players are Charles Meeks with Chuck Mangione and Paul S. Denman with Sade.
@wawaw1867SW Жыл бұрын
Where did you get your pickguard from mate? you’ve inspired me to do this to a squier p… love the look and feel of a p… but always wanted a MM
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks!! Same here, I love P bodies. Good question - it's a P-bass pickguard from Warmoth, but I ordered it WITHOUT any pickup cuts. Then I cut it myself with a Dremel to fit the Stingray pickup. Good luck!!
@wawaw1867SW Жыл бұрын
Cheers mate, am I right in thinking that the MM pickup is centred about 30.6” from the nut?
@maciejbrusio8321 11 ай бұрын
I'm wondering how close to the original would it sound if you put the MEC preamp and pickups in Warwick Thumb's positions to any normal bass. People say that Warwick sound different because of the wood density etc., but no one really tried to test this theory with building a bass with similar electronics.
@johnmccloskey7199 2 жыл бұрын
Ok, hear me out. I think your quest for the vintage Stingray would benefit from some flatwounds. The original strings that came with the pre Ernie Ball basses we're GHS Precision flats. Bernard Edwards mentioned in an interview once he never changed the factory strings.
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks!! I should add here that I did string it with flatwounds (separately from this video), and yes, it's awesome. I agree it's essential for the correct Bernard Edwards tone; roundwounds really cannot sound the same. I often use TI Jazz flats, but I should try the GHS Precision Flats for the most accurate Bernard Edwards sound. Many thanks for the recommendation!
@ChefZak 2 ай бұрын
You invented the g&l kiloton!
@SergeyGalichkin 6 ай бұрын
Wow!!
@tonzokinawa Жыл бұрын
Did you document the distance from the pickup to the bridge? Thinking about doing this with a jazz bass!
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Sounds awesome! Sure thing, here are measurements from the 1983 Stingray. All of the measurements are made from the middle of the 12th fret. From 12th fret to neck-side edge of pickup: 321 mm = 12-41/64 inches From 12th fret to centerline of neck coil: 333 mm = 13-7/64 inches From 12th fret to centerline of bridge coil: 357 mm = 14-4/64 inches From 12th fret to bridge-side edge of pickup: 370 mm = 14-36/64 inches I actually would not recommend measuring from the bridge, because the bridge saddles are adjustable. The measurements on one bass might be several mm different from another bass. Measuring from the 12th fret ensures that it's a consistent distance. Cheers!
@tonzokinawa Жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez thanks for the fast reply!
@rossbrigolimusic 6 ай бұрын
It’s a magnetic pickup. The wood does not matter. It all depends on the pickup, pickup location, pickup height, scale length, type of strings and electronics. The only the wood will affect is the sustain. Softer wood will damp the vibration, harder wood will let the vibrations ring longer.
@paolozak3014 2 жыл бұрын
As far as the obvious idiosyncracies are concerned, much is in the pickup and preamp. But how about flatwounds and neutral eq settings (which is not 50%/50% but somewhere around 30%/30%) ?
@jeandebritobelline8574 2 жыл бұрын
Hello, could you write what is the real distance between the bridge saddles to MM pickup and, the MM pickup to 12th fret , shown at 18:16 ?
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Sure thing, here are measurements from the 1983 Stingray. All of the measurements are made from the middle of the 12th fret. From 12th fret to neck-side edge of pickup: 321 mm = 12-41/64 inches From 12th fret to centerline of neck coil: 333 mm = 13-7/64 inches From 12th fret to centerline of bridge coil: 357 mm = 14-4/64 inches From 12th fret to bridge-side edge of pickup: 370 mm = 14-36/64 inches I actually would not recommend measuring from the bridge saddles, because these are adjustable. The measurements on one bass might be at least several mm different from another bass. Measuring from the 12th fret ensures that it's a consistent distance. Cheers!
@scubasteve06 Жыл бұрын
The two jazz pickups in parallel is definitely not an exact copy of the MM pickup sound, but it’s also not far off either.
@bernardodelatorre5243 Жыл бұрын
Yo tengo un EB y si noto la diferencia, sobretodo en la profundidad del tono. Lo primero que notas al tocar un EB incluso apagado es que se oye y se siente la profundidad.... Pero por la diferencia en dinero un hack así vale la pena.
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
¡¡Muchas gracias por el comentario!!
@possibly8180 2 жыл бұрын
The squier looks cool as hell lmao
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@younghys9194 2 жыл бұрын
how the hell did u put a humbucker in that P bass thats so cool
@poppasquat8483 Жыл бұрын
Konichiwa... man of taste
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Thanks, right on!! Cheers
@andymarshman9546 Жыл бұрын
I'm wondering why there's no circuit controls on the Squier. If you used a stacked pot, you could have master volume and a concentric tone control.
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Good question, thanks! I wanted to make sure that the output of the pickups went straight to the Stingray preamp, without anything (pots or caps) added. These would change the impedance of the circuit and hence might impact the tone. This way, it's an apples-to-apples comparison with the actual Stingray. Actually, after this video, I added the P pickup back in to the Squier. I then added separate passive stacked volume/tone controls for the Stingray pickup and the P pickup, PLUS a switch to bypass everything just like I originally had in this video. With the vol/tone , it does make a slight difference vs. vol/tone in the circuit but at 100%. It's not a huge difference, but it's very slightly clearer with everything bypassed, which makes sense. i.e. The passive controls do have a very slight muffling effect, even when they're both on "full".
@andymarshman9546 Жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez ok. I understand that.
@RezandaEkaNugroho 2 жыл бұрын
Can you make one video to modded jazz bass sound to dingwall basses like NG3 model? I sub to you cause it really interesting to Dig dive. I found you from 5 bass pickup mod
@rom4486 Жыл бұрын
Actually the p bass sounds more like real MM Is possible to get the preamp diagram?
@cristianvallesi2805 Ай бұрын
no se por que pero me parece tener un sonido mas profundo el musicman .....pero muy bena reforma ....te felicito...
@michaelmatthews2126 Жыл бұрын
Where'd you get the pbass pickguard without the pbass pickup hole?...
@mikedeeez Жыл бұрын
Good question - it's a P-bass pickguard from Warmoth, but I ordered it WITHOUT any pickup cuts. Then I cut it myself with a Dremel to fit the Stingray pickup.
@rusupapy5356 2 жыл бұрын
The G string on all of the basses sounded familier but on the 5 pickup bass the G string sounded a bit not in tune but i think taht the best bass is the music man stingray but great video
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!! You are absolutely right about the tuning. When I started editing the video, I realized the tuning on the 5-pickup bass was slightly off. I don't know why I didn't notice it at the time. I was really bummed, but unfortunately I didn't have the time to re-record all of the clips. :( Hope it's not too distracting.
@sojourner4726 Жыл бұрын
The squatter had a little bit more bottom on the e string.
@pennywiseRJ Жыл бұрын
thats a G&L model like this a precision body with a humbucker on bridge
@dnate697 Жыл бұрын
I would love it if my Jazz bass sounded like that. That said, I love passive.
@bassbutter4767 Жыл бұрын
In the side by side challenge, the Squer sounded much better. Maybe it was the way it was EQ'd or NÒT EQ'd that the Music Man sounded thin & nasally like a wounded duck with almost no bottom end. But the Squier sounded fuller and smoother, something that could support other instruments in a band setting.
@acactusnamedjosh708 9 ай бұрын
I know this video is old but I was gonna throw a name Suggestion into the ring. The PreRay It works in 2 ways, because its a precision stingray hybrid But the name also works because the P bass preceded the stingray. I was also gonna suggest Pray but I dont think that name works as well.
@bertrandmajorik6589 Жыл бұрын
An oscilloscope would tell you some of the differences on tone. Sustain is anothr one... nice vid !!!!!! BASS player out.
@CurtisGabrielMusic Жыл бұрын
Theres just something about the pre eb stingray. It sounds so classic. Nothing sounds quite like it. Its such a familiar tone. Its like coming home.
@Lamski3 Ай бұрын
Where did you get that P-Bass pickguard without the P-Pickup cutouts?
@mikedeeez Ай бұрын
Good question - it's a P-bass pickguard from Warmoth, but I ordered it WITHOUT any pickup cuts. Then I cut it myself with a Dremel to fit the Stingray pickup. Cheers
@duskydidot Жыл бұрын
you can tell the difference with the higher notes the stingray is rounder than the custom , but that could just be the cheaper strings on the custom
@Bflatest Жыл бұрын
where are the knobs on the P bass?
@sekretlowrider4046 2 жыл бұрын
i am wondering can we use lm4250cn performing under 0 °C temperature , thanks ,
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Hi - according to the LM4250C datasheet, no, 0°C is the minimum temperature, so you'd need to keep it above 0°C. However, the regular LM4250 is rated down to -55°C.
@sekretlowrider4046 2 жыл бұрын
@@mikedeeez thank you for reply ,i am a newbie ,learning from youtube ,your videos helps me a lot , i am planing to build busking bass amp with cheap amp board ,50w to 100w ,24 v battery ,do i need to solder resistor on amp jack pot ,and how much current do i need for battery ,many many thanks ,
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
@@sekretlowrider4046 Sounds awesome! Unfortunately, I'm afraid I don't have experience with building amps. I wish I could help you out! Maybe I'll get a chance to learn about amps someday though. Best of luck with the project!!
@xavsmash 2 жыл бұрын
Great
@myhapylife 2 жыл бұрын
Precision with flats is the best. :)
@mikedeeez 2 жыл бұрын
Haha! Yeah, I like Stingrays, but I would still choose a Precision with flats vs. a Stingray 75% of the time myself too.
@PhuckHue2 2 жыл бұрын
one trick pony sound
@oldasrocks9121 Жыл бұрын
Nah, not the SUB. Doing this to a P is very punk, carry on! Im doing exactly the same thing but with N. MM5.2 so the strings are between the pole pieces. Maybe an Artec big pole jazz bass single coil in the Jazz bass neck position or where the 24th fret would (with a noise cancelling dummy coil or rewound as split.) Maybe. The "old smoothie" 5 string pickup with 4 strings is lush. I like your "standard" eq on the chocolate PMMBass best, least amount of fizz. That body is nato wood btw, aka eastern mahogany. It's fantastic, I really likeit, its really good looking too. Mines surf green black pickguard laurel fingerboard. Albridge bridge, Ernie Ball Group 1 flats
@azna179 Жыл бұрын
You just built a quasi G&L Kiloton active with music man pickup
@AcysLounge 4 ай бұрын
Do not forget that type of parts, also make difference in sound. Most actual resistors are metal film types, .... try carbon types instead!
@bapt_andthebasses 2 жыл бұрын
Next video: Rickenbacker onto a Squier.
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