The wizard kicks the door in and pulls two wands from under his robes and starts blasting. His 6 charges each run dry and he pulls a quarter staff from his back and starts yeeting fireballs. That runs out, and he bravely bravely runs away because the fireballs should have killed that thing.

“Nobody knows what level you are” is such good advice.

You should have your rules as a pdf, im sure followers of the channel would love to see them.

Similar to nobody knows what level you are, nobody has to know what class you are. Going back to the early 80's when I started with the First Edition, I wasn't a big fan of the classic "robes and pointy hat" look. I once put my highest score, 17, into strength. With an intelligence of 12. He wore a poncho and vest with lots of small pockets inside. Was he going to be one of those wizards that went on to reshape the fabric of the universe? Nope. But he could make a good living as a professional adventurer. I played him like a person who got into college with an athletic scholarship as an offensive lineman. He wasn't going to be valedictorian, but he was smart enough to graduate.

I'm a little late to the party, but felt compelled to add my 2 cents anyway. Playing up the "they don't know what you can't do" schtick, I immediately got the image in my head of a quiet, reserved wizard who wears drab clothing but the lining of his cloak has a bold dazzle pattern on it. He steps forward, flings open the cloak and starts with his grand soliloquy in deep booming voice, tossing out some flash powder/colored sand/smoke bombs. Then, of course, runs like hell behind the fighter... 'Cause he's intelligent that way.

I really like the idea of a low-level magic user accumulating mundane items that produce magic-like effects as a way that they would have used their intelligence and years of study to prepare for going on an adventure.

I think this is really one of the “new school” vs. “old school” differences. Back in the late 70s, the game was influenced by Swords and Sorcery fiction, classics like LotR, and low budget movies. Magic in these fictions was relatively rare, and very powerful. Now days,video games, modern novels, and high budget fantasy movies influence expectations. I actually think it is boring that as a caster in 5E as an example, I can produce a magic effect every single round forever. Because of my old school lens, this just doesn’t feel right to me. It goes along with buying potions in a general store. WTF?! But this is consistent with the modern version of the game. I am more of a Moldvay guy than 1st Ed. AD&D, but one of the things in 1st Ed. I think speaks to some of your points. And this is true for thieves as well as a class. 1st level magic-users and Thieves are quite literally, by level title, Apprentices. A1st level Fighter is a Veteran. These are not the same levels of training in their respective professions. 1st level M-U and Thieves “suck” because they are apprentices in their craft. Being able to cast only one spell per day or having a 15% chance to perform a thief skill is about right for an apprentice. The Fighter equivalent would be a Squire, who would probably have 1d4 HP. But Fighters start as Veterans, not Squires. Way back in 1980 I ran a Lankhmar game using B/X and one of the things I did to represent how wizards are feared was I required a successful Saving Throw vs. paralysis before a character could go into melee combat with a known M-U character. Not only did this make them survive more, it produced this really cool Lankhmar-correct presentation of wizards because the players would carry alembics and braziers and all these props so that it was clear that they were a wizard. I also allowed them to wear leather armor. 100% agree! Scrolls, scrolls, scrolls! Here is what has always bothered me about magic items If I am a M-U, I am going to spend my time making scrolls, wands, rods, and daggers. Why would I make magic swords and armor that I cannot use? Sure, maybe they get paid, but 90% of the time, they are going to be making scrolls, wands, rods, and daggers. So scrolls should be one of the more common magic items that parties come across IMO. Nice video! I am loving these!

In my campaign, I give magic users additional innate powers as they progress in level. The reason is that over time, the mystical forces that a wizard channels through his body cause certain changes to occur within them. Some of the changes are: 1. Beginning at 1st level, a wizard's natural aging process slows by 5%. It slows by an additional 5% for every level the wizard advances (ex. 10% at 2nd, 15% at 3rd, etc). 2. At every other level (ex. 2, 4, 6, etc) a wizard's natural armor class is improved by one. 3. At 4th level, a wizard can automatically detect magic within a 5' radius. This increases by 5' for every other level he advances (ex. 10' at 6th, 15' at 8, etc). 4. Beginning at 10th level, a wizard can only be harmed by +1 or better magical weapons. This increases to +2 weapons at 15th level, and +3 weapons at 20th level. These are just ideas. You may have others in mind.

I'm with you on this. The thing is, i DMd for about 15 years back in the 80s and 90s. I only just realuzed that I'd missed a part of the DMG that covers acquisition of MU spells. It does give read magic and 3 other spells to new magic users as a gift from their teacher. The problem is that it's literally hidden in the middle of the DMG. It should be in the PHB if they wanted people to know about it.

Played my first OSE session yesterday. It was fun, but the players felt that they could not do much. This video made me think that B/X is not necesarrily as restricted as we experienced. The biggest difference between 5e and OSE is that the game challenges the players more than the character sheet.

Some of my home brews for Basic Fantasy: (1) Elves know one Magic-User spell, regardless of their class. So they can be a Fighter with Sleep, and really wreck that goblin band. (2) As a Magic-User, you add your Intelligence modifier to the amount of First Level spells you can cast. So a M-U with 18 INT can cast 4 first level spells per day, when they start as a 1st level PC. At 5th level, their spells per day looks like 5/2/1, because higher level spells should be more rare than a 1st level spell. Also add your INT modifier to the languages you know, beyond Common (and Elvish, if you're an Elf). (3) Dwarves can be Magic-Users, because they can make magical arms and armor.

The non-magical special effects idea opens up so-o-o many possibilities! My head is spinning right now as partially-formed thoughts dance and crowd together, inspiring new & different ones faster than i can write them down. About scrolls; back in the AD&D '80s my group had fun basically "re-skinning" them into other one-use items. Like little envelopes of powders blown from the palm, or fragile ceramic trinkets to shatter or crush, as long as it was "consumed" by the casting. We never thought of smoke bombs, though

Conan 2d20 really leans into flash bombs, smoke, etc. Really like that idea.

Hey daniel - we met at Gencon last year - i was the Air Force guy that introduced myself in your breakout session and was a little giddy - keep up the great work w/this channel - you offer great insight & we share a background with the older versions of dnd so I thoroughly appreciate how you flex and modify that older framework -- sincerely, Patrick

The best way to play a magic-user is to turn yourself into a chicken and have the party carry you around in a sack for the first ten levels. You just have to homebrew in a first level turn-to-chicken spell.

"Did I cast 3 spells or was it 4? Well in all this excitement I clean forgot, but given this is bat guano, and it'll make a fireball that'll fry your head clean off, you'd better ask yourself - do I feel lucky?"

That familiar idea about the mage being blind/deaf while seeing through their familiar's eyes is gold!

My last gaming shop fifth teen years ago, ran some Harry Potter like games, which due to the nature of people in their mid to late twenties and to their fifties, due to Rated:R for language and content we went from junior high school to junior college young adults. 3.5e rule Item Creation feat: Craft Wondrous Item, DMG: Creating Magic Traps replace all other forms of creation feats of Scribe Scrolls, Brew Potion, Craft Wands, and Enchant Arms & Armor. Average start level of WotC:Star Wars rpg was 4th -level. For our games it was 6th-level multi-class PC with two levels of Xp/wizard worth of magic items. So a 6th-level spell caster was regarded as CR:8 due to equipment. Instead of paying GP for items it was paid in with gp=Xp value, and sold as Gp for xp value, which level cap magic users. 2nd-level spell at 3rd-level spell caster ability cost 1,500gp/xp. Which is a month of slinging a stone to kill a chicken/rabbit/rat/raven for dinner each day. Upgrades, a sorcerer/wizard wand has the 2nd-level spells such as Enchant Magic Weapon/Armor and Mend to keep their wand from being accidently broken and can fire off Magic Missile or Acid Bolt like a pistol with an unlimited magazine of Ammo. Other wise wands for sale or weapons with special magic charges only have a magazine up to nine spells. Stander magic user N/PC, .. Rogue2/figther1/wizard3, CR:6 From all the dumb things my parents did and what my generation did, we all will be classified as 2nd-level rogues with Evasion from the number of times of avoiding setting ourselves on fire. From WotC:d20 D&D3.5e Star Wars soldier class compare to the optional rules of 3.5e DMG in skill/feat training to real life military training. We by pass Xp for killing or social reactions to just Training Time to learn Skills/Feats. Which equal to 1d3 class levels per year. So on and so such. Then is no zero -level npcs. After 5 years of clearing out your garden, farm fields, barn of rats, ravens, large to giant insects and other such vermin, ... AD&D2ndE, Fighter/wizard2nd-level then militia training. Rogues would be around 3rd to 4th-level. 3rdE DMG npc Commoner class would be around the age of 20yo will be a 7th-level single class Commoner. Or a druid .. sorcerer casting Plant Growth to increase the harvest thinking it was just hard work and not magic. Trained militia man veteran of a few battles that can Flank in groups, Commoner2/rogue3/warrior2, CR:5 2.) Magic Effects in Campaign. Spell: Good Berry, .. after casting it just means the PC find enough food without Survival/Wilderness checks to feed themselves for a day. Spell, Create Food & Water, .. find a pack mule with water skins, you can cook the mule. Be grateful you are not stuck in a rain storm drinking muddy water and eating worms. Spell: Cure Light Wounds or Critical Wounds, a second wind of vitality/Star Wars concept of Hp, Wound points = your constitution score for flesh & bone dmg, along with dealing with concussion and sprang ankle dmg. Other wise Cure Critical Wounds just grants the PC extra bed rest in recovering HP, wounds will not heal like the Marvel comic character Wolverine. Low cost in creating magic items from cheap looking mundane everyday items, so magic is everywhere without flashy effects and ramped superstitions. Fire ball is a grenade, Lightning Bolt is in your face Magic ! Spell: Shield, .. gives the receiver a dodge or parry bonus to avoid attacks, there is no invisible or visible shield of magic force energy seen protecting the PC. Spells: regarding PC speed or ability enchantment are just regarded as athletic adrenaline boosted effects. Back in the early days of 3rdE my first game shop ran a He-Man campaign, if Teela is the Sorceress daughter what magic could she employ as a Sorcerer and not a wizard that would come off as Athletic abilities ?

I'm sure you know the variation described by Dungeon Craft and others: roll for spell success, with some chance for crit failure. I feel like it still keeps the Vancian flavor if you're only able to do this on memorized spells AND if the crit failure is something that truly hurts and/or has a high enough chance to happen. You can further up the risk by increasing the chance of crit failure by +1 for each successive cast that day (DCC style, I believe). So first cast of Sleep only succeeds on 1d20 roll and it affects the party on a roll of 1 (quite possibly a TPK scenario). A second cast of Sleep again succeeds on 1d20 (maybe -1 penalty on this roll) with a crit failure on 1 or 2. This retains the Vancian feel since you can't cast a spell you didn't memorize for that day.. But instead of a spell disappearing completely from memory upon the first cast, it becomes more hazy to the wizard. Each successive attempt causes the memory to become more unclear and prone to corruption.

Here's what I do in my AD&D 1e/2e hybrid game: 1. Every Wizard has Cantrip as an at will ability. 2. Signature Spell NWP that allows one spell to be always memorized and is cast at +2 level efficacy. So in effect you get an extra spell slot. 3. Allow bonus spells for high INT similar to what the Cleric gets for high WIS. A 1st level Wizard can have 4 memorized spells with these three changes and they are a more formidable party member. The rest including brain power and thinking is up to the player.

Your entire channel is great, this video in particular. I'm definitely "borrowing" your familiar and wand options for my OSE campaign. Thanks for sharing your ideas!

Using slight of hand against lower intelligence creatures/enemies is a great idea. With a bit of alchemy during downtime to create intimidating or awe inspiring (or blinding) effects would really help. I never thought about a hireling though, great idea. My next MU is going to be a mix of Stephen Fry and Penn & Teller at this point.

We used to let Magic Users memorise a number of extra spells equal to their intelligence bonus. They could only cast the number of spells as written in the rules, but having extra ones available gave them more options to be useful. There might not be a big fight where sleep is needed but there could be a locked door that needs to be opened or they could indeed find scrolls where Read Magic would come in handy. We also used to let M.U.s use a quarterstaff as a weapon, that way they could stand behind the fighters and thrust the butt end of the staff through to smack the bad guys in the face for a little extra damage. Oh, and I once played a M.U. with good dexterity who used to juggle and throw daggers, again a useful bit of extra damage especially against low level monsters.

Thanks for another great video. Another point to make is that the game was designed by guys who assumed there would be 6 to 10 people playing, so there would be multiple M-Us and plenty of tanks to hide behind. Like they didn't realize that not everyone had clusters of war gamers to draw players in from and most normal people's groups settled out at 3 or 4 players and a DM.

This single video alone is so full of fantastic tips that I'm going to have to rewatch it with a laptop next to my phone to write them all done. Thank you!

I play 2nd Ed, but I always found the Beyond the Wall Mage class to be closer to what I always thought a mage should be. I bridged the two systems by making Detect Magic, Read Magic, and Cantrip(as per the little wish article from dragon magazine) function as Cantrips from beyond the wall(you can cast as often as you like, as long as you can make an Int Check. If you fail, the player gets to choose if he lets the DM generate a mishap or the character is incapable of using magic the rest of the day, and all his currently active spells suddenly end). I leave the clerical versions of the spells alone, priests are pretty OP at low levels as is.

These are all good ideas. I allowed a MU to hire a psionic npc who had invisibility as his only discipline. In combat he would attack from a flank or other "surprise" location. The player explained that there were two of him due to a magical mishap and his alternate self was a fighter. I use your MU as sage, with stage magic, stink bombs, and even powerful allergens to keep all the normals guessing.

Some excellent stuff - hidden levels & the deceptive little tricks (loved the kobolds vs a line of chalk example) are especially good pieces of advice regardless of the system being used

Some great advice here for making the magic-user count for more. I kind of dig the wand and the hireling ideas. They seem simple and low-potency enough but give the magic-user some extra functionality.

I have been struggling with a similar issue with Wizard spells, and settled on the idea that the Wizard is able to create his own scrolls. I want to keep it under control though, so scrolls are not free or unlimited. It breaks down as follows. 1) you are limited to the number of scrolls = to the 2x the number of spells you can cast in a day. 3) it takes time to make scrolls. 1xspell level hours per scroll) 3) you need to "Cast" the spell in to the scroll. Thus making scrolls kinda of like a magic battery. 4) Making scrolls takes time and $$. 100g per 1st level scroll, 200g second level, 400g third level etc. 5) scrolls are a bit bulky, and susciptable to the elements. Water, fire, acid etc. 6) there is a chance the scroll you pull from your "scroll quiver", sack, Henchman, etc. was not the one you were looking for (I am still trying to decide on a fair but fun way to do this...I envision the whole Rocky and Bullwinkle, "hey Rocky! watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat!" sort of situation). I am looking to do a similar thing with clerics as well, only they can requisition potions from the local Church. It is limited by $$ (donations) and Standing within the chruch (level). This allows the party to do things like get access to a healing potion for example.

Very thought provoking. Thanks.

Would love to see another "build an adventure" video! I prefer magic users in the classic mold of seeker/keeper of knowledge rather than the munchkin-land version of mobile artillery lol. If the players "get it" it creates a great opportunity for role play.

These are great suggestions. So many good ideas. I have to admit, when we started playing the basic set we played rules as written and didn't venture to far from the book. We were either not experienced enough to broaden the definitions, or just didn't mind the rules as they were at the time. Hearing your ideas certainly opens the gates for my interpretation of BX, which was always very restrictive in nature. I stand corrected...enlightened. I think Cantrips can be expanded more so as not to abandon them. I know I am venturing into the non-BX realm, but in the AD&D Unearthed Arcana the Cantrip spell was a 1st level spell, that when cast gave the caster 10 minor effects for the day; for instance, take the 5e cantrip Prestidigitation and all the effects it can cause, each of these effects would count as one minor effect under the UA cantrip spell. Adopting this to a BX M-U would be useful to the one-and-done, first level M-U, and dig into the player's creativity. Say the M-U could cast a cantrip effect that summons a swarm of fluttering butterflies in the area. If the M-U is clever this effect could be used to obscure, confuse or otherwise delay an attack upon his / her person; such as, the M-U casts the swarm of butterflies between him and an orc. The resulting confusion would open an opportunity for the M-U to run away. Your idea for starting spells is awesome! I think man people make the mistake of taking Magic Missile over the very powerful Sleep or Charm Person spells...such is their folly. Also, the Find Familiar spell as you described it should also be a no-brainer. On a side note, I like the restriction on elves not having the extra starting spells / spell book option. I agree, their spells should be more innate to taught by tradition / word of mouth. They have long memories, spell books are probably unnecessary. In my opinions, elven magic should be more enchantment / druidic based anyway. I love the hireling idea! It makes so much sense and doesn't break the game. Hirelings are highly under rated.

15:50 I like this comment - allow the magic user to know what is going on with magic.. That goes back to the purpose of having a magic user in the party! You need one to figure out what is going on in the dungeon or th adventure. It goes back to why there are 4 classes and why you probably need one of each in your group - each one has skills or knowledge or abilities to get you through different parts of the adventure. MAKE MAGIC-USERS MORE MAGICAL!

Great video. Good advice. Love the use of chalk to scare the kobolds. I give the 1st level magic user a wand with two or three charges. Detect magic and read magic are magical abilities they require a successful skill check during an adventure. Roll d20 below INT, and the defect magic is successful.

In my campaign, I'm having MU's needing magical staves(commonly shaped like a ？? Shape but other shapes are possible) that are created by 9th level MU's, they have magically charged "ioun" stones that power up their spellcasting. But without the basic staff, victims get a +1 to their saving throws against the staff-less MU. MU's get one staff for free at character creation, but replacements are costly.

Great video. I really look forward to see how DCC will handle the Vance's Dying Earth setting and their take on 'proper' Vancian-magic therein.

I like the wand/ familiar idea. That's really useful. One thing I do like from 5E is to allow the M-U/ cleric to cast any spell they know. I see you're playing AS&SH, that system gives casters bonus spells based on their ability score which is great. Clerics have a great number of utility spells, but in general you never see them come out due to the need to memorize healing. Letting them pray for a number of spell equal to their wisdom bonus plus their level, and then use their slots at they see fit really adds flexibility. Also, I need that shirt!

One of the things that magic users have going for them is that any time another magic user is killed, they most likely will have a spell book. If the mage chooses, he can copy spells into his spell book. Other spells can be cast as scrolls. So a mage with several spell books will have many extra spells he can cast. He could only carry so many as they weigh quite a bit but having 2 or 3 would give him quite a bit of power.

I’m excited to give this channel a try, cool shirt, so far so good! XD

I like the idea of wizards being able to use prestidigitation any time. It's not supposed to be especially useful, just good for color in role-playing moments, like improving the taste of food and stuff. Also, Professor Dungeon Master on his channel mentioned that he lets spellcasters cast as much as they want, because they have to roll a d20, and a natural 1 has a wild magic effect of some kind. So his spellcasters are still quite judicious about their spell use. Otherwise, just give spellcasters more spells. In my game, you get several spells at first level but first level spells can't do damage, so wizards have to be problem-solvers and leave the fighting to fighters. I also like the idea of wizards speaking "Imperial" (Latin or whatever), and intelligent monsters speaking broken Imperial instead of a monster language. Clerics and Wizards should speak this special language that the fighters and rogues can't, and that's something that makes them useful. Druids' mystical language should allow them to send a message to any living creature (the sounds of nature) but not hold a conversation.

I work "cantrip" in as a 0-level spell using the same progression for other spell levels. (eg. 2 uses at 1st level, 3 at 2nd, 4 at 3rd... to a maximum of 5.) It helps to give the character more to do at low levels, but later on they're mostly a novelty.

Hey dude, just discovered your channel. Putting the master in dungeon master. Loving the BX content, having never read or played it I have always looked down my nose at it for being basic - so thanks for that. Seeing the hex crawl generation was inspiring - while I dont necessarily think I'll run BX, will have to use a lot of those systems to run Adventures in Middle Earth! Cant wait to see all your content.

This video has been helpful, as it has helped me solving a problem that happened in game. I've realised that I have been at fault with something in my games. This has been a great video

I'm way late to the conversation here, but I wanted to express my appreciation for this video as well. As someone who started with RPGs decades ago with AD&D, I've certainly seen the hobby change over time. I came to the conclusion that I prefer older, simpler rulesets like B/X before 5E was released, but I can't interest enough others in my local area to play it. I feel that given modern expectations for RPGs, B/X Magic-users appear to be quite weak (at lower levels) and very limited in ability. This video did a great job of pointing out some of the considerations one should have to temper that assessment. I find that the problem with magic-users isn't what they *can't do*, more than it is reaching the understanding that in the older games, the character sheet wasn't a comprehensive document that covered everything that characters *can do*. As you mentioned, they are still another party member that can think, share ideas, know different things, stand on a trigger point, help solve puzzles or carry stuff, etc. In my experience, combat wasn't what we spent most of our time doing during a game session. To claim that 1st level magic-users can only cast one spell and are then 'useless' for the rest of the day is sad. In B/X, a 1st level magic-user has the same armor class and hit points (or more with a CON bonus) of a normal human, along with better saving throws and a better base chance to hit. Add to that the ability to cast any spells at all and it is clear to see that they are certainly worthy of being categorized as an adventurer by the common folk. There is a big difference in older versions of D&D and newer versions as it relates to the PCs place in the world. In the older games, no one was a hero at first level, whereas characters in newer games begin the games feeling like heroes or even superheroes. I believe understanding that fact first goes a long way to understanding how each of the classes in older rulesets can be fun and even function "as is". In games where you don't have to make a roll for every action you take, you don't need as much written on your character sheet. *Edit for spacing.

This was really good, like the wand idea. I think a select number of cantrip would be useful say 3 one combative 1-2 dam, defence 1 ac bonus and an affect trip, or daze.

I love the idea of a hireling for the MU early. I think once the MU gets to a higher level (10+?) then they should attract a follower that will learn from the MU

i love your ideas on wands and familiars

I added a "perk" system to my osr game, kinda like feats but low power and the characters get 1 perk every 4 levels or so. Most of the perks are something that give a +1 bonus to some activity or expand an existing class feature. For the MU one perk they can choose is "enervatic channelling", the MU can recast a spell they have already cast by taking 1d4 damage per spell level. The MU in our current game has nearly killed himself twice during a tough fight by using it. I may have to adjust this perk a bit, but it gives them a dramatic option to extend their power. Some other tweaks I added were in line with letting magis-users do "magic user stuff": witch-sight Wisdom check to sense magic at a range equal to their level, learn potion formulae using spells they know, scribe scrolls for spells they know, "read magic" as a skill, Wisdom check to figure out a magic artifact/item. I generally allow the players use their class and background as meta-skills with ability checks. Your take on elf spellcasting (innate-ish, no scrolls) sounds like what I've been doing. The "nobody knows what level you are" is solid. My group has avoided many things they could have easily defeated out of uncertainty; that uncertainty is worth cultivating.

I could, and may in the future, comment on a hundred things in this video, but you mention allowing a 1st level MU to get a hireling. This is great advice. I would go so far as to make sure people get a chance to get hirelings up to their limit (if they can handle that many moving parts) within a few levels. If you allow your players to direct the hirelings, and you give them a few quirks, some interesting magic items, an odd ball ability, this essentially gives that PC who controls them power. But also because they may leave after any particular adventure where the Loyalty check happens to roll low, they could get killed (they are weaker than a PC) or they maybe back at base camp recovering, these aren't all the time resources. That last bit is a great way of handling an over abundance of Hirelings. Some can be keeping an eye on the mercenaries, or healing up, or even back in town being an agent of the PC. This allows them to kind of be two places at once. Hirelings can also fill that urge for the exotic. Yes they have to be weaker than the PC, but henchman that is a gnome, or a intelligent animal, or a minor monster can add bit of short term flavor to the game. So yes, certainly for Magic Users, but for everyone else too!

One thing I did for my AD&D game was to give all players a d8 hd plus their class HD at first level and I gave everyone with a high enough constitution to have the fighter con bonus . It gave players a slight chance to survive but didn't make them over powered . I gave wizards the same spell bonus clerics got but based on intelligence instead , it gave magic users a few extra spells at low levels so they didn't seem useless in combat . I also allowed magic users to wear hide/fur armor only and use slings in addition to their normal selection of weapons allowed . I also removed level limits for all races and allowed some races to be classes they wernt normally allowed like allowing dwarves to be Paladins and halflings and gnomes to become druids and rangers . It didn't hurt play or really change things to much and my players like it . One player had a gnome druid named Rombold Evergreen who rode a Rottweiler as a mount and wore a wref of holly on his head . Another player had a female Halfling ranger named Hilda hollowbottom and she rode a goat . My players at that time ( 1987 ) had some really cool ideas for their characters and we all had fun playing ad&d

I think having spells alloted to items like wands/stalves/rods/rings/scrolls are in line with BX/ Vancian magic instead of relying on limited spell slots or ability to memorise having spells stored on multiple items on the person of the magic user is way more gonzo and exciting. Finding a scroll with spells above your caster level and casting it anyway despite the risk as the hail Mary is brilliant. That's why the thief had a chance to read scrolls is there scrolls need to be given as a low level treasure

New to OSR. Love your channel. This is great, planning to play a MU next.

So much to ponder in this one, really worth going back over several times to be honest. Have you seen the Mage character class in OSE now? It has some really interesting abilities and a different take on an OSR style spell caster. I think it is from Carcass Crawler. Also Folk Magic of the Haven Isles by Monkeyblood has some interesting twists to add to MU's as kind of skins. Also I think Dolmenwood has various breeds of dogs parties can buy with some great varieties. I love the suggestions here, Wands, Hirelings, rituals. MU's are a bit of an empty class in a way, but really I think they highlight something about the early versions of the games. It was all basic and we were at liberty to tinker and expand on ideas. These kinds of ideas are great too, they dont break the game but they start to imply more about the setting as you go too. A MU with his librarian bodyguard, wielding a scroll case or an antique but otherwise normal sword. Suddenly you can start adding in setting rich details... Does the hireling have to be human, the sorcerer in Tower of the Elephant had a trained or ensorcelled ape thing in a red cape as his bodyguard... You dont always want to unbalance things or make everything too flashy too early but there is precedence in the literature all over the place, it just depends on the setting you're playing in to make it work I guess.

Absolutely fantastic! Filled with so many good tips.

Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts on MUers. There are a number of fantastic options here. I find this vid very inspiring!

Good video! I’m fascinated by your idea for wands, and the idea of magic-users starting out with a henchman makes a lot of sense.

Awesome video! Love how you take the DM and player perspectives. You have some really good ideas here!

I think a potential fix for B/X magic users is ritual casting from 5e. You can have in your spell book a number of first level spells equal to your int bonus eg read magic. These spells can be cast as a ritual from your spell book with a casting time of ten minutes. That way the MU has one daily spell and some ten minute tricks like dispel magic

I did a couple of things to make Magic Users more fun to play. Lore is a good one and involved a lot of intelligence checks, done behind the screen like every other check. First was the staff. I allowed that a Magic User could take a staff as a weapon. Then they could enchant it by spending on day to carve their personal runes onto the staff. Once the runes were carved, they could cast any spell from their memory into the staff. The spell would remain in the staff for 1 week per level of the spell. One week for Sleep, two weeks for Invisibility, etc. The Magic User could cast one spell per every 6 levels into their staff. So one from levels 1-6, two at levels 7-12, etc. A staff with stores spells in it could also be used by the Magic User only with bonuses in combat. Every spell cast into the staff gives the Magic User +1 to hit and damage when using it. Of course, once the spell was cast the bonuses would drop or be gone. This makes the staff more useful and more desirable. All Magic Users want a Staff of the Archmagi, but this will due for now and give opponents something to thing about. The next idea I stole from Dragonsfoot. The Wand of Wizardry. The Wand of Wizardry is constructed/gifted the the Magic User or his Master upon reaching First Level. It stores 1d6 charges that regenerate 1d4 at midnight or whenever. A bonus of 1/charge per level is added to stored charges and the charge regeneration. A Wand of Wizardry has the following abilities for 1 charge: Light and Magic Missle (one missile only). For 3 charges: the Magic Missle can be changed to an Elemental Missile projecting either a fire missile, an ice missile, a lightning missile or a rock/stone missile. The function is that it is useful in combat. For each charge expended, the Sand of Wizardry does d6+1 hp damage. All Missles require a successful to hit roll. And the Wand of Wizardry costs 100gp. This cost must be paid with the Magic Users starting money. Just a few ideas to make Magic Users more fun and interesting with more options.

"If they don't have to earn it, it's less interesting." Great statement! I would add that if they don't earn it, then they'll not really care anyway and the gimmie is just a worthless gesture that holds no value. Can be the feeling of much of the modern 5E/PF2E systems in general to me. Thx for these and keep it up. I would love more Magic User input, because as one online DM put it to me recently, "I wouldn't recommend a single class magic user in our online [1E/Zero lvl-start] Greyhawk because they are just way too 'squishy'." It saddened me that basically I was subtley "warned" off of the character I wanted to play really.

It's very interesting to throw something at combate to high int PCs, like: "you look at the ceilling while your companions are fighting and see that if you hit the right place, it will collapse", something like that.

Great ideas. i can't wait to try them out.

Thanks for the video...even though it's 3 years old. After a second watch of this video i have a few new thoughts. I like, and will steal, so many of your ideas. However, it has never made sense that a magic user, wizard to be precise, should not know read magic and prestidigitation. The first one is essential to learning magic and the second one is described as, "a minor magical trick that novice spellcasters use for practice." It seems like all wizards should know these from the start. Sorcs and warlocks are a different story. Good thought on scrolls...I'm going to up there drop in my campaign.

I tend to like "skill-based" systems best, and this video gave me an idea for a new character archetype; a kind of sorcerer/charlatan. Firstly, the character IS a sorcerer and does real magic. But he also is skilled at a very specific kind of bluff. He makes liberal use of powders, simple chemical reactions, cold reading, and the like to simulate "magical" effects. This can be used as a grift, but I'm thinking it is more a way to awe and intimidate folk. And if he's ever called out, he can break out the real magic as needed. Better yet is to mix the real and the fake to keep observers guessing and off balance. As an example, in a fight the mage throws down a simple smoke bomb for concealment, casts a light spell on a sling stone, then fires it off with his sling (or just hucks it, whatever). It looks fancy and does several useful things; concealment, illumination, and a physical attack. Good stuff, Bandit. Thanks.

Great advice! Got here via google and now subbed. TY. 🤘

Great ideas! Thanks!

One very early option we latched on to as a house rule was Staves, Wands and Orbs. Basic Wizard staff is in effect a crossbow it shoots a little elemental "bolt" as a sfx the element does nothing it does damage of a cross bow and has 12 bolts standard after which in needs to be "oiled" with Staff oil to gain another 12 bolts. The oil can be purchased from any alchemist or a Magic user. A magic used can make a bottle of oil with a lab and two days. A wand is a "short bow" and has 12 shots and needs oil as above. Orbs are "flasks of oil" and can be made in the same fashion as the staff and wand oil or real oil (needs a lab and two days). Oil cost is 5gp. We don't have the Cleric class so MU's can take up the religious roll. There is no distinct magic types (like Arcane vs Divine) only "magic" - as a result "potions of healing"(elven way bread, unguents, halfling cakes etc) are a bit more common. As are groves, road side shrines, mystic glades etc where praying or meditating will impart a heal and accelerate 'natural' healing (to use a religiously teamed site you MUST have declared a religion - alignment occasionally IS important at a "site" we only use the classic three LNC). We use a spell check system for casting and when you eventually fail at a cast you cant access that particular spell again (quite similar to "wolves and winter snow" OSR rpg). Memorisation is a thing and you cant memorise the same spell again. Also MU's can use INT in place of CHR (choices as to which to use) for social manipulation type stuff and to awe others with their wizardly-mien (this is lost if you multi-class) Although this is mostly just role-played we only roll if things get contentious. Last thing which I nearly forgot as its so second nature now - things the MU talks about tend to coincidentally come "sorta" true kinda. Its as though they are some how linked the the cosmic nature of magic. If the player tries to "push" this effect it never works. They have to simply be "open" to the wonder of magic and magic in turn reveals it self in subtle interplays with things coming to align with the magic-user or the world coming to align with the magic-user. This works wonderfully especially over time as you make note of little things the MU says and make them manifest in the world around them.

Brilliant advice on languages ty

Thank you for the informative video. This helped to bring the class into a better understanding for me. Up to now I'd been thinking of only spells, and not the extra's like scrolls and wands. As I look as the character sheet for a B/X character, there aren't the lines and lines of skills, feats, and talents. This video helped bring to light, like you said, that this is a smart intelligent character. And we are free as GM's and players to take the character beyond the simple character sheet. I like your suggestion too of allowing the character to substitute their intelligence checks for charisma to help influence a bluff or mystical looking charade. This makes perfect sense too. The hired henchman was good one too. Many good ideas I've now tucked away. For other videos. I really enjoyed your dungeon creation video. It was fun to follow along in my PDF copy and see how you developed that dungeon. It would be easy to say to do more of those, but I'm not sure what else could be added to it or improved to add on to it. It was a fun video to follow along with, and it was great to see how you thought it all out and came up with something fun. If you were planning on writing a scenario or another small dungeon for your gaming groups, then it would be nice to be along for that brainstorming session. Thank you for your videos. I know they're a lot of work, but they help keep the creativity and excitement going.

Lots of great ideas in this video

Inspired by your channel, I have decided to give BX a look (i started with BECMi). I was really surprised with the Rule that you cannot have more spells in your spellbook than you can memorize. Given the importance of Read Magic for scrolls and the such. OD&D allows for spell research so I am assuming they do not have restrained number of spells. BX rules as written is brutal on the MU.

Just came across this channel........then I thought cameras.....then I thought cool if you played guitar......behold in the background. Loved the photo stuff so I am sure this will be cool.

I never had a problem with playing a MU with but one spell at the beginning. There is so much more you can do in the group to free up with other Characters. They seemed to be the natural choice to map. and carry extra dungeoneering supplies, copy out runes or glyphs or riddles. You are still part of the team that is all working together to overcome the dungeon challenges That one spell was the ace card up your sleeve so part of the excitement was picking the right moment for it. Something I dont get with 5e cantrip rays per round attacks.

I was following along with John Wick's 30 characters from 30 games challenge a while back, so I made a magic user from OSE, which I heard plenty about, but haven't played. I agree the level one guy didn't feel particularly magical with his Read Magic, dagger, and bag of crap. I had enough random starting cash for a retainer though. I was pretty excited, because my worst witch became a team of adventure bastards starting on the painfully slow path toward power (or doom). If I can trick- I mean convince our 5e group into trying a B/X one shot I think adding a little extra magic (especially familiars) would help them like it more.

A familiar? You mean the demon that helps the witch-marked curse others, talk to the dead through the devil, and--Oooh! It's a Cat! I love it, love it, love it! *Everyone else* "Demon-dog of fire and hell!" Cue witch-burning music...

I had an idea for cantrips that any PC can cast a number of cantrips equal to some number per day (number being maybe Proficiency bonus in 5e, or character level, or equal to the number of spell slots), and any cantrip beyond that costs a level of exhaustion (5e) or cost them a hit point.

My thoughts exactly. Good video.

I love the few suggestions you make, and definety plan on incorporating them into an upcoming campaign. I'm planning on taking a load of my 5e mates on a BECMI Mystara based adventure. What I don't like in my 5e game that I'm playing in, is the regular off game session is all the spellcasters(which there are a hell of a lot of in 5e) sitting down and comparing spell choices etc, and picking through the big master list of all the spells available at all levels and plotting out how to maximise spells etc. They shouldn't be... Oh I can't wait to get to level 5 because I can cast this cool spell then, it should be when they get to level 5, they are awed at the new spell that they didn't know they could do up to that point. Arcane magic users should be a mysterious bunch, and part of the journey of playing the class should be the discovery of what spells and powers they can develop. A 1st level MU shouldn't know all the spells that will ever be available to them, they should be aware of the few spells at their level that their mentor gave them access to, and a vague idea of the types of powers that MUs they have met have shown. eg... they know their Mentor had the ability to cast a lightning bolt from his hands, I hope I can learn how to do that someday. Much like magicians in our world, they are very slow to divulge their secrets, and break the magic circle. Your particular mentor at low level, out of affection and presumably thanks for the help you have given them as an apprentice prior to you deciding to go out and become an adventurer, has gifted you with some low level spells for the first few levels, and perhaps a letter of reference and some names that you can use to get help say when you get to Specularum, to get you access to some more low level spells. But beyond that, its up to the MU in their adventures to seek out and discover new unknown magics. Another thing I found was a big list of spells, that spanned BECMI and 1st Edition AD&D, and there were some regional variants mixed in. So if your party finds itself in Minrothad, and come across a Magic User willing to share some knowledge, the player might be able to pick up some spells involving the Sea or the Maritime world. Or if they are in Ylarum they might come across spells that involve manipulating sand, or something similar. And of course if they are really serious about developing their magic to its full height, they should be pushing the party to go to Glantri or Alphatia so that they can get access to high level education in the magical arts. The other house rule I plan to use, is that while the number of spells they can cast per day won't change, and they still can only memorise a certain number of spells, the memorised spells only come into play during encounters. eg, those are the spells they know off by heart, and are able to cast off the cuff. In less stressful periods, they can take out their spellbook and cast the spell from book. This still uses up a daily spell slot, but allows for greater variety of spells to be used. For example, the party has just defeated a small dragon, the danger is over, the clerics are tending to the wounds of the fighters etc, and you are facing a massive treasure trove that you need to get safetly out of the dungeon. The MU can open up their book and if they still have a first level spell slot unused for the day, they can cast Floating disc from the book, to help carry the loot. They don't have to have memorised it in the morning. Or if they come across some scrolls, they can take some downtime, and the MU can look up Read magic. I was planning on making them have to do an intelligence check(with penalties depending on the level of the spell) in reading scrolls of levels beyond their current level. So theoretically they could be left with some mysterious scroll for some time of some powerful spell, but not sure what that spell is yet, until their level and knowledge of magic improves. Lends to the mystery I think. I'd love to hear how you do elven magic, as to me, it does seem more inate, and not 'booky'

For those unfamiliar (as I was) ASE = Anomalous Subsurface Environment. I checked it out. It does indeed look cool.

Most of the games I've played in forego weapon limitations. A magic-user can use all weapons a level 0 mercenary can use with the same skill as one. So typically +0 in attack bonus. Sometimes the MU can even wear the equivalent of mail armour, as long as the combined weight of their kit doesn't make them encumbered. But if Ralph-Gandalf wants to take the chance with his wizard HD and a sword, or take potshots from the back lines with a spear or a thompson that's perfectly good. Sometimes a system allows everyone to at least attempt thief skills, including an MU. You might not be as good as others but you can at least try.

An age-old statment with regards to early game magic users that I go by: You have weapon profficiencies for a reason. Slings are better than people give them credit for.

I have long loved and played 1E but always thought the magic user should have some type of spell, 1 or 2, which can be cast per round but not over-powered of course and increase in power as they level up. As far as scrolls as a DM a lot of the lower level encounters using RAW treasure rewards just do not provide a lot of scrolls to be found. I like your idea of a wand to store up spells.

I like to let the MU use the wand as a "spell focus" allowing 1 spell per level to be cast like a sorcerer the same spell can't be cast twice in a day.

The two things that drove me away from D&D many years ago were Hit Points and Vancian Magic. I have made 2 simple changes to magic. The first is that spells are not forgotten when cast. So if a magic-user can cast 3 level 1 spells, he can memorize and cast 3 spells like normal, except that he can cast each spell once, one spell three times, or whatever combination he likes. The other change is something I borrowed from Microlite and haven't tested yet, but it allows: the magic-user to cast additional spells by sacrificing HP equal to the spell's level X2. These HP cannot be regained through mundane means and must be healed through divine magic. I also like one idea that was presented in Carcass Crawler for OSE: the Mage class cannot memorize spells, and must cast them from scrolls, but they have a collection of innate abilities that they can use at will, similar to the special abilities of thieves/ rogues.

Charles Dickens complained that it takes a half-hour to light a candle from a tinder box. Have your players attempt it on a cloudy, moonless night knowing that you might jump out and spray them with pepper spray at any moment to give them the feel of having a candle or torch go out in a dungeon.

IF you feel Magic-users need a boost, try free cantrips ( like lighting a candle, small stuff) familiars, a staff or wand( they can store a level 1 spell in), a bonus for Intelligence, ability to detect magic( even powerful casters), a free magic blast ( just equal to thrown dagger)some starting scrolls. One of those options could help, but i never found it necessary. I do give Read Magic as a free skill to MU.

Power is power, PC or NPC will find a way to try to disprove your abilities. It's better to have spells and be powerful than have pretense. RP can work, in my experience DMs and players all find a reason to test your abilities.

Great video. I start my players' MU's with detect magic, read magic, and two additional spells of their choice. They can still only cast one per day, but they have a choice of what they want to memorize. I'm also a fan of scrolls (especially for clerics!), potions, and wands as treasure. I tend to limit, at least during the "Basic" levels, permanent magic items, such as magic armor, shields, and weapons. I'm a fan of mid to high level characters using non-magical equipment, especially in AD&D games, since it costs magic-users a point of Constitution to create a permanent magic item. Not too many wizards want to wreck their health to create a sword +1 they can't even use! I hadn't considered the familiar for B/X games or the wand idea. I'd like to see those rules in print and study them before I adopt them. Are they posted anywhere? I found your channel recently, and I'm enjoying your content. Looking forward to more videos.

We give a bonus number of spell levels per day equal to Int bonus. So if your Int or Wis (for clerics) is 18, you get 3 bonus spell levels per day, so 3 1st, a 1st & and 2nd or 1 3rd level spell per day. Helps at low levels, but not overpowering later.

I'm working on a house rule system that allows wizards the cast unlimited spells, but they have to succeed at spellcraft checks for every cast. Failure makes them take damage, and destroys to spell component. They cannot cast that spell again until they acquire the component or focus again.

My last game shop also played AD&D2ndE, D&D3rdE, 3.5e, WotC Star Wars along with WEG west end games d6 system Star Wars, Whitewolf/World of Darkness(WoD): vampire,werewolf, mage the awakening, and Changeling the lost. Running a D&D lower plane campaign dealing with fiends and demons WoD had a better system of magic in dealing with such things. Since my shop like D&D hit point system they just employed 1d10 for each stamina die/dot their PC had to determine wound point penalties for health level dmg. In WoD all PC are equal in stamina effects out comes, but they went with HP to show which PC surfer exhaustion earlier before the other PC does. 2.) Mixing system house home brew rules. a.) AD&D weapon speed initiatives, along with optional rules for Weapon Type vs Armor Type. b.) WEG Star Wars, recovering and gaining Force Points and making two skill checks per round at half dice value. Which for WotC D&D/Star Wars we made two skill checks at half skill ranks. The Jedi Knight bonus feat at 8th-level allows the PC to make a specialize skill chosen as two skill checks at full value. c.) WoD, magic is a funny thing to balance out. 4th-level spell Polymorph Other/Baneful Polymorph allows a caster to kill about any rival by turning them into a snail. So ability transform or adjusting ability stats are of equal level. Loosely base a D&D wizard at 11th-level using 6th-level spells can reshape, depower, or permanently increase the stats of a Succubus. We had some fun Blood War campaigns.

Hi there, just discovered your channel recently but love the content! (See a comment I did on another video). Any chance you might share a pdf of these house rules? It would be much easier than transcribing from the video 😊 I will slowly work my way through all your videos 😄

I do the same for elves, but I also allow then to choose from MU or the Cleric spell chart. However once chosen that is the only type of spells they can use.

Hey, love the content, did you have another video about *non-magical things a magic user can do to contribute/survive lol? I am Mandela effing myself mad thinking you had one but not finding it. Cheers!

Oddly I went with staves instead of wands, which is basically lifting from Fastasy Trip. I layer the knowledge of making (or "crafting") more sophisticated versions into the game so that say the enchanter's staff can hold extra spells of that type. I totally agree with the language thing, negotiation with monsters is like what's supposed to happen. "Benefit of the doubt" is the alternative to rolling dice. It can be difficult to get used to, but it pays off imo. Almost all monsters in old d&d don't use Vancian magic either with their 3/day innate abilities. Why not buff the MU with read/detect 3/day? Or the wand can do it? Idk

Coffee!

I think that there is a very simple solution but requires deep rules changes- rolling for magic. A good example is warhammer 2ed. Magic is dangerous, it can mutate you, use with caution. I write my own rules set, there every spellcaster is rolling, clerics included, but also all non clerics, have wild magic, when wierd random things can happen.

1st level M-U can carry a few flasks of oil, so as to continue to play their proper role, and training the rest of the party to ware fireballs.

I never understood why clerics got bonus spells and MUs didn’t, so I gave bonus spells for high intelligence