For what it's worth, having been in both flat rate and salary, it comes down to the shop. Flat rate is a given, move those cars, good hours, efficient. But when you get salary, that shop should be holding the tech to standards. Good shops should be giving incentives when you the shop meet certain numbers. I've also seen flat rate techs be content with a certain paycheck, and not bother to pass a certain amount of hours. It usually comes down to the individual tech. I'm in a salary shop, and seeing my numbers and efficiency is enough for me to keep moving. Unproductive techs don't last here. I have plenty of freedom yes but there's always the numbers to think about. Nonetheless the industry in general is not for the lazy!

Nothing worse than a shop owner buying expensive toys and showing them off at the shop while at the same time whining about increasing worker pay, Keep your toys at home and pay the good techs a decent wage and get rid of the troublemakers including your in laws.

I'm a flat rate tech, a green horn by most standards. I graduated from UTI in 1991 but life lead me away from an automotive career. At the age of 48 I started turning wrenches again, I love the work but flat rate has kicked my ass. But only because of my inexperience in the industry. Cars have changed and I obviously didn't keep up. I've been doing this for 7 months now, I have at least doubled my productivity and getting faster every job.

I have to say you are wrong. I have seen flat rate tech not call oil leaks because it pays bad. I have seen them wash it off and not even do it and get paid for not doing it. All the things you said hourly tech wouldn’t do is the same for flat rate because they want to get onto the next easy high paying job. It honestly doesn’t matter it the person that work there.

I have Flat rate guys, and a Salary guy who is younger. Both are good techs. Flat rate guys makes money. Younger guy who is salary is a hustler and is always doing something. Just friday, he ran out of work around noon. Ate his lunch, and when I was back in the shop at 2pm, he was cleaning the floor with the floor scrubber and mopping. He broke down boxes, takes the trash out, just keeps moving. He takes a few 10min breaks to get on his laptop/phone, but the work gets done and he is doing something productive the rest of the time. No worries on my end being the owner. Being salary, I still track the hours he "Flags" with that, and knowing the work load for the week, I know if he is just laying over or not. Luckily, never been an issue at all. Even with my flat rate guys on a 30hr / week guarantee. Those who say salary/hourly guys are lazy, and dont work, dont wanna recommend the "harder work"...That just means they dont respect you as an owner and thats a whole different issue. Nothing in the shop will get better untill that vibe changes.

The main difference is: Hourly: You leave when the shift is over Flat Rate: : You leave when the job is done

You’re very knowledgeable. You’re always on point. Thank you for all the good content. Coming from another experienced ASE master tech.

I'm hourly and I hate not doing shit. Makes the day drag. So I'm always cleaning and organizing or helping the other techs soaking up as much information as I can. It depends on the person and their drive

Every tech has their quirks. Doesn't matter the pay plan. And you are right we all get our ass kicked from time to time

Great points to everything. I think that regardless of flat rate or hourly there should be a pay system that incentivizes hours AND lack of comebacks. Better pay scales on either end based on better fixed first visit scores and hours turned for the shop. There will always be caveats for certain situations but generally I think that would help the industry.

One thing managers/ foremans don't realize the amount of time spent at the parts departments. Not having sufficient scan tools for every line tech. Dealing with other guys rechecks with no money on the ticket. Can't send the car to original tech cause 1 he's off 2 he's not a master tech.

Great video. A shop’s focus is to make money. Managing hourly, salary and flat rate work productivity is a daily challenge. You hit on several issues but the one I never considered was the comment about how much does a technician needs to bring home each day. That really seems to be key factor in work productivity. When the pay period is coming to a close and the flat rate technicians realize they didn’t have their needed hours in, amazing how much work they can get done. Thanks again for the video.

Great topic. I enjoyed hearing both sides of the system, from a foreman/manager's perspective.

I love the videos you make but I do disagree with most of your views about hourly techs. Every garage I've ever trusted paid hourly. A tech on hourly, at least in my 50 mi radius area, stays at the shop longer, you get to know your tech. Flat rate is a revolving door around here and a lot of people cars come to the hourly shops afterwards to fix something a flat rate tech did wrong. Also, everything comes down to the tech, a lazy tech is a lazy tech. The only difference is hourly he takes his time but flat rate he rigs stuff instead of doing it right. A good tech will be good at and pay scale. That said, all pay scales in this industry have issues and neither flat rate or hourly is the answer.

Great video thanks brother. I think you're spot on. Like I have said I have never been flat rate. I can say I fired the owner's brother. I went on a service call and he was supposed to finish the job in the shop. I got back and he was on the phone with his girlfriend. The job was never touched. I was on the road for around 3 hours busting my rear end. This was not the first time he was told or caught doing this. I made him clock out and leave told him that he could come back in the morning and get his stuff. I talked to his brother the owner and he was sent out. That is why you never hire family members. He could have had the job done by the time I got back and started on the next one. I was there when the next shift came in and the owner came in. There was a long discussion and I went home to get sleep. Keep up the great work see you in the next video thanks again brother Sorry I rambled on he wasn't the only one through out my years.

Great video I think I agree with you on everything also like rustbelt comments, Shop I’m at doesn’t pay flat rate and o buddy there are guys that milk everything drives me absolutely nuts

After this video, and working both, you've hit the nail on the head. A good tech is going to be good no matter what. As youve said, its what you get at the end of the week. I worked hourly for 10 years and after working flat rate, it really put my mind in a bad place. Just not for me. I think it comes down to being in a shop busy enough to support you with flat rate.

Hourly sounds good as long as the shop is totally cool with letting you go home for the day when it's slow... the cool thing about flat rate is you don't have to keep busy if you dont want to, but i think if your hourly and your the lead tech or a mastertech it should be the same thing, an hourly doctor isn't gonna start sweeping the floors and cleaning toilets if no patients come in, neither should a mastertech

One thing to mention about hourly is that you can divide up the workflow a lot differently such as having more than one technician work on the same vehicle. Like have your undercar guy do the brakes and susp./ alignment and then later on the driveability guy can work on a more advanced problem. It is maybe a little easier to divide up the work without having to listen to people bitch about their hours and you can give people work they are better at or specialize in, which can lead to increased overall productivity.

I've been working at the same dealership for 5 years on a team flat-rate plan where we share the hours. This week was our first week on an individual plan I did 91 hours and the rest of the guys averaged 45. I love flat rate and I'm happy I'm no longer carrying the rest of the team.

Great points made. Good job

I was thinking, the flat rate argument versus hourly debate also depends on how the shop bills a job. For example, if book time on a job is 3 hours and I finish it in 1 hour, is the shop going to bill the customer 1 hour or 3 hours? If the customer is paying 3 hours, I should be paid 3 hours too. When I worked as a mechanic (HD truck), the estimate was a "not to exceed" amount. If we finished it in less time, typically the customer would be billed less. There were exceptions like for a standard oil change/service. That was a set cost based on the size of the truck. Some took longer, than others, so the cost was based on an average.

YES YES AND YES The shop Im in is an hourly shop and as the shop foreman I use my personal phone for work and then when I go back into the shop and catch my guys on the phone (facebook and snap chat) I give them the talk about work and personal use of time. But yes I feel like it is a never endless battle but mostly with the younger guys in the shop

Incentive for an hourly tech is they get a raise. Once they are capped the incentive is they get to keep their job. Flat rate incentive, the brakes are 3mm.....(off the record, to the sensor). Fuel induction service in the trash can. I’ll fake till I make it by marking my territory on tickets and they will pay me on it, before it comes back. Then I’m so incompetent that someone else will have to fix it. Because it’s easier to give me more work to keep the flow going than it is to cram knowledge in my head. I’ve worked in so many shops. I think automotive needs a clear path to developing technicians. I don’t like union guys I work with them all day. But I feel a union style training plan would help. When I worked at Honda they offered $10 a training module there is nearly 300 modules. It’s amazing how many people never did it. $3000 for a free education. It’s amazing how many people who did complete it never got a chance and the moldable drones that didn’t care moved up. Ignorance is highly profitable. This week Dobbs Tire couldn’t figure out why a civic wouldn’t start. I showed up to buy the car. The girl had paid them 3.5 to still not figure it out. It was a loose ground strap. It took me 25 mins to find it. They still made a killing to not figure it out. She has her car I have $20 for help her out. In short. We need to start focusing on the people who care. If you put the plan in front of them. The ones who want it the most will do it.

So, currently, I work for a fleet company that utilizes MD/HD diesel trucks and tractors and runs 24/7. I'm an hourly nightshift employee and got to say, I love it. However, we have to pump fuel and DEF and wash and vacuum trucks for drivers whenever they come thru on top of our regular shop workload; have to handle roadcalls; find rental units to give to customers when we can't fix their units immediately; handle ComChecks for certain drivers; check on the status of units that customers call about; and handle customers that drive up wanting us to fix their trucks right then and there. We are especially busy on night shifts and severely undermanned. So, typically, we have 1 guy that's mainly doing the PM's, and 1 guy that answers the phones and handles everything else as mentioned above. That's on the weekend. Sometimes we have up to about 5 guys on shift which is nicer, but still kind of hectic. So yes, hourly employees can be less productive turning wrenches, but more productive in other areas. I know you were generalizing, but I figured I would throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth. I've also worked at other shops that were commission based. 2 very different worlds. Love watching your vids!

Noticed that techs figured out what hours they need for a minimum paycheck and they hold up around that time. If only need 6 hours for day, that's it. They bust ass to 5 hours and then take time and hold up rack. If not there to make money then move out the way. I am trying to retire as early as I can. Good video Mike.

I first started out salary at an independent shop and currently work flat rate at a dealership. When it comes to over selling or under selling I look to see if the car is under warranty. If its under warranty I'll recommend it or just do it depending on the job. If it needs to stay you obviously need to find out if the customer needs it that day or can leave it. If you have a car out of warranty and its just damp around a valve cover I'll make a note that its seeping but I won't say its pissing out and needs to be fixed now. It will also depend on what I find during the MPI. If I find something that is a safety issue I'll advise fixing that issue over a damp valve cover such as a loose tie rod or ball joint or bald tires. Many people don't have the money to fix every little thing on a car we find at once and if we can advocate for them what is more important to fix first it can help them feel at ease and perhaps make a customer return. I'd rather have customers return because we kept their car safe and took care of their concerns and if need be advised them on future repairs. It doesn't matter if your flat rate or hourly always give your customer the best service and advise you can. Point them in the right direction. If you're fair, do good work and make the customer happy, that is what make a customer return to your establishment and keeps the business you work for going. Some times its better to think long term not short term. Holy shit what a rant!

I'm young in the business. Only ever worked at 2 shops. One aftermarket shop for hourly pay now I'm at a Toyota dealer for flat rate. I think I prefer flat rate. Because the incentives you get on the pay plan we get extra cash added on in 3 tiers if we go over 40 hours. And the guys in our shop make alot of money. But there's always the winter time lulls that suck but that's the trade-off. I think a tech could make a better living off of flat rate if they want to WORK for it

Use to wk @ hourly shop that if we were booked 4 days or more out we got 10 hour days and 6 to 8 hours on sat ,over time so work flow can be just as important to an hourly guy if management knows who to motivate there guys create a positive environment to promote workflow

You’re absolutely right. Bad techs are gonna be bad techs no matter their pay plan.

Hey Mike great content thanks. My father and brother own and operate a repair shop. Are you aware of any good software out there that tracks employee work success for auto shops? Most companies and government operations use them. I would think a decent excel spread sheet tied to work work tickets would also help management work performance ?

I agree with you, no matter how good someone is on hourly or how much you pay, productivity eventually dwindles. I work for a used car dealership and even our best techs usually only make it 2 yrs. I think the work involved reconditioning and the endless supply of it burns them out. Do you know of any Used Dealerships that implement flat rate? I have wanted to try this for a while. I believe it would be a win win for the Owner and Technicians

Yo! FRM. Thoughts on shops with a “greener” tech crew vs shops with alot of “chiefs”

Every shop I've ever worked at paid hourly. A lot of it has to do with where we live, and getting parts in a quick amount of time. Yeah you can try and get the parts here ahead of time, but you never know what you're going to run into.

I have 2 guys in my shop that always slack, always have come backs and I'm constantly fixing their screw ups. I've worked both flat and hourly. Even though I'm hourly now I have that flat rate state of mind. It's built it

We were specialized at our dealer and had a bonus program. The tech that wrote up the most legit repairs needed for the other departments would get a bonus a the end of every pay period. Also, if you are not fast and good at what you are doing, flat rate is not for you, but hourly makes you lazy.

I figure it's all depending on what you're working on. Hourly is great for some jobs and flat rate is better for others.

I was hourly for a shop before and the owner was on everyone's butt. Between 4 techs we were seeing maybe 20 cars a day,It drive me nuts. We all quit and he closed up shop in a one year

Ive worked in fifteen shops now and the only hourly techs I have come across are general service techs, aka lube technicians. In houston, I've never seen an hourly tech. I've seen salary techs, but not hourly, those are lube techs, everyone else is flat rate, and the dealers are flat rate too, but may have shit like group pay, etc

How about hourly/salary with profit sharing? Just thinking that may be the best way to go as it would get the best of both hourly and flat rate. Techs get a consistent pay plus they are incentivized for the business to do good by sharing in the profit of the shop. Thoughts?

Hey flat rate master, I’m currently at Tech in a motorcycle shop that pays hourly and in about a week I’m starting in car dealership that pays flat right and I’m personally hoped to go to flat rate because I’m totally incentivize to do better working to do it faster it’s a personal challenge to me and I’m looking forward to it I like the fact that when I fill out 50 hours and a 40 hour week I’m getting paid for it Unlike now where they expect me to do that but they don’t expect to pay me 50 hours a week and they’re not given me any bonus to pay it out that money so really it’s a mental thing while I work harder to make them more money when it’s not helping you out at all

wish you could do a video on front wheel bearing as you get older hearing goes away is the right wheel hub screaming or the left hub screaming I now test drive the care rack it pull the wheels off and temp gauge the bearings the hottest side is the bad hub bearing i replace in my shop your thoughts

Great video!!

never work flat rate but any job done the right way is the same time flat rate or hourly with no come back on both side

What should a new tech make hourly rate or flat rate?

Good video. It's great concept to share with other managers. LMST K.C.

I feel that I think differently as a hourly worker that works with his flat rate coworkers. I should be getting all of the oil changes I can so I can funnel my recommendations to the flat rate guys. When I am able to, I should be assisting my flat rate guys so I can help make them money, especially if I helped with selling that job. My revenue is different and while I could be slacking off , I’d rather be learning the job so I am able to be efficient and ready for a flat rate position.

One time I hit 6.7 in an 8 hour day, .9 for "the works" .5 for oil change, been hourly lube tech for 4 weeks now. That was a busy day but we still had downtime

For a shop that deals with customers I would say hourly would not be the best idea. Saying that I am hourly at a major fleet company and from a management position it makes all the sense. Techs are responsible for not only maintaining the fleet but self part ordering, ROs, training, general clerical etc.. So not much to to goof off or the bosses will know right away.

Its about honesty. Im an hourly mechanic but im producing 200+ hours every month. I work whenever customer is there.

Ill admit im an hourly technican, but i tey to do jobs as if i was fate rate. My biggest issue with my percentages being down is the service writer when we beat time he charges customers what we have in the job. Also when we finsh a job it can be up to a half an hour till we get our next job. He constly moves tickets around so we never now what we are getting next. Im furstrated cause im average about 66 percent a week. But there is an bounus program that we hit 81 percent for a 4 week period theres bouns pay. Only problem is he does what he can to keep everyone at 8p percent. This has happened the past 2 months for a feelow tech in the shop.

I have a ‘03 F-250 5.4 auto that needs a rear seal. I wander if I should have a mechanic that works on a hourly rate or a flat rate fix it? I don’t make a lot and I didn’t insure it and put tabs on it this year cos I couldn’t afford to get it done. I’m hoping maybe next summer when I take it out of storage I can get it fixed. It leaks right on the exhaust especially when I get on it and it smokes bad then. I don’t want it to start on fire hence I don’t drive it hardly until it gets fixed. Lol you must have ate before you shot this video with the burping. Oh wait... is the flat rate your talking about just for the mechanics pay? I thought it was for how much they charged lol.... 🤣

Apples to bowling balls I know, but I am a field tech for a cat dealer and I would never work flat rate. Flat rate doesnt consider the trash pile that the compactor is broke down in or the super corrosive stuff the loaders been loading out.

Managing anyone with a poor work ethic is hard to do no matter how they get paid!

Flat rate guys QC their work because it’s $FREE.99 labor when it comes back due to negligence. Because of that, the flat rater may QC his/her own work a little better. Judgement calls like oil leaks always are iffy. The standard for me on this is: Would I recommend my mom or sister to pay to have it fixed?

This sounds like most industries, that it comes down to hiring quality people and you can eliminate 95% of the problems.

I run a lil 3bay shop and I usto have a tech that was flat rate and he wud goof off most of the bad and say ur not paying me if I don't do nothing anything and he had car in the bay

I agree with you with 99% of what you said EXCEPT who undersells work. I agree that generally hourly techs are more lenient with brakes and easier work. But you'll rarely see a flatrate tech upselling a job they known they'll lose on. Otherwise, spot on.

notice how the cut gets lower and lower over the years it was 60/40 back in the 70s 33/67 in the 90s 20/80 nowadays warranty times also got shaved over the years...ever notice the job gets harder over the years.....flat rate can get to you...it comes down to an honest days work is a honest days pay. they know how much you do.... flat rate or not

Well, I gotta agree with you .

Damn he really pulled out the ASE technician A and B 😂

30 yrs in industry, one point that I'd like to hear is , how many flat rate techs work on a car like it was their own , once I got to flat rate there's people changing brake pads at 6 /7 mm for no reason but thier own wallet , customers cars , used cars, cpos, it happens all the time , its not what you can sell the customer today but tommorow ( by being honest) , to the customer, those who do screw flat rate technicians at the same point, just saying seen alot over the years, love you vids , sorry for my rant! Lol

I work at a mega carrier of semi trucks, and our mechanics are hourly. They are freaking garbage and always tell you they don't have time for anything. I was literally told once that they were tok busy to put a lug nut on

Bad shit happens you start a repair and find someone has already been there stripped bolts broken bolts something rigged up just bullshit but we got it to fix the rate don't account for that so we fix it maybe we come out good maybe we don't but it leaves like it should be not a hacked mess

I'm hourly so it doesn't matter as long I'm bring work for the company and keep other tech busy too.

Been working hourly for almost 20 years and I've had an opportunity at another shop and they do flat rate I guess my question is how do you break that bond from something that you're used to and get into something that you never been into

Imma say this I work in the garbage industry hourly pay slot gets paid out in payroll and overtime and unfortunately alot of guys rush due to volume of work 100 trucks for 6 techs at night unfortunately guys are told to short cut to get jobs done faster do I believe it goes both ways

Hey FRM, What scan tool would you recommend for an independent tech? Best value and best functions thx sir

What's your opinion on flat rate techs having one rack only? Especially in my case Nissan Master tech doing a huge majority of the transmission and engine work in the shop.

I notice its the younger techs that get hourly. So its just a learning curve for them. If i dont like them i PROMOTE them to flat rate. When they are too lazy to fill out their paperwork and their paycheck falls they usually quit.

The only way i would take a job was flat rate. I never wanted to work by the hour.

Hey flat rate master! I did a tool box tour vid on my channel. It's just quick unscripted cell phone video with no edits or redos. Was showing off to some friends.

You said it best if you dont like working on flat rate dont work on flat rate. Nothing worse than hearing people cry about the job/pay they accepted knowing all about it.

Why would your hourly guy be doing timing belts?

I'm not flat rate I'm production they figure it out at the end of each day and I make good money but I work I don't stop

What about when your the master tech/L1 in the shop and your flat rate and everyone else is hourly and it seems like you get all the shit jobs every day?

I think it all comes down to the guy turning the wrench no matter how you slice it each individual guy/girl has to pull their own weight if they wont pull their own weight they wont work out on either pay scale lazy people are just lazy imo

Flat Rate Master, What are your thoughts on shops having minimum hours you have to flag a week?

Sleep apnea bro? Like your vids though, good job.

Phone use shouldn't be allowed if you are on the clock that is the biggest production killer there is clock out use your phone all you want to but when you are supposed to be working stay off the phone my phone I leave my phone on my toolbox told my wife my daughter and my mom if it's an emergency call me let it ring 3 times hang up and call right back that way I know to answer it

In general today people are staring at cell phones, I don't know how these people function in any job. I would say they can spend all day on it at the HOUSE (send them out the door). Not only that is they leave things lose (person has a wreck do to sloppy work)...

It's "incentivized," not "incentized." Not hating, just saying. Love the videos.

I love flat rate

Do you have fun at work if always in rush and under the time pressure?

I have honestly seen flat rate technicians stop working because they hit the hours they are comfortable with, which is silly🤔🤨

New MAC hat?!?!?

probably should have touched a little on how slow times or lack of vehicles on the service drive affects hourly v flate tech mentality

Young hourly techs are constantly on the phone or in the bathroom and it’s ridiculous

Like, if you think commission is a good idea.

i have been working flat rate for 40 years i love it

i pay my flat rate at 50. To encourage the person to do shitty jobs for me. I don't have any full time employees or anything. I have to pay people to moonlight for me. (settle down it's HD mechs doing Car repairs.)

Thumbs up for the BURPS!

Flat rate oil changers. Pay them 2 dollars for every oil change that don't come back on a hook.

Hourly avoids up selling. They don't want no more work

I appreciate you trying to be unbiased but I don't think you can be atleast not on this particular subject

I refuse to work hourly. I like money so I only work flat rate.

I rather play on my phone 🤣🤣🤣.

Flat Rate sucks. Flat Rate needs to die. Sorry i had to.