Measurements can reveal engineering faults that may or may not be audible but music is experienced psychoacustically. Therefore it can be argued that "good sound" is subjective. Marantz understands this through decades of experience and produces some of the most pleasing sound available due to their tweaks to sound signature via HDAM and current feedback tech. - It's a mistake to judge audio equipment by measurements alone since our subjective interpretation is what really counts. As long as a product does not introduce unwanted sound it's good enough. Further tweaking to taste. Some companies have figured out how to produce a sound signature that the great majority of listeners will appreciate. Marantz is one of those companies. Even their low-end products are excellent. (Sounding, not measuring). - However I am the first to admit that I did buy a Topping D90SE DAC solely on measurements alone and it does sound excellent. :)
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I have tested HDAM based AV Receivers. Until the latest revision, they only added distortion to the path. The distortion was too low to be noticed by ear but sure enough didn't do anything good but added cost. I have spoken to them about their tuning process for such and unfortunately they don't perform a single controlled test to know if such tweaks are effective. As noted though, their latest HDAM implementation does less damage to transparency so they are paying better attention to that now.
@alexleitch373 ай бұрын
My Ego wants to hear that the product I paid a small fortune for (in a world with starving children to feed) actually measures scientifically to its stated specs. I don't want to hear that "a cheap DAC could outperform" my new and expensive purchase.
@NalinKhurb2 жыл бұрын
Another excellent presentation Sir Amir Your methodology of testing and transparency helps so many people and will do so in the future as well to examine and test equipment It would be one of my goals to emulate your ways, if I have the opportunity and access (including but not limited to finances) to the required equipments. Though I only possess a mere fraction of your knowledge, I will keep learning and try my best. Thanks so much, for your work is truly inspiring
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the kind remarks Nalin. I think if you watch/read my reviews after a bit you will be able to learn and replicate what I am doing. I try to keep my reviews consistent for that reason.
@NalinKhurb2 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview You’re very welcome Sir. Will definitely try my best. I have read many of your reviews as well, they’re great! Just recently started analysing digital audio files for production quality as you’ve demonstrated in many videos. Very exciting stuff. And thank you for your response 🙏🏼
@kreatorcuriosity2322 жыл бұрын
Thanks Amir, I remembered my friend bought over an Accuphase cd player weighs tonnes, and hook up to my system, Accuphase is about 15 years older at that time, I thought why on earth you need to overbuild this cd player, when the new light weight cd player outperforms the Accuphase in every way. It cost 1/10 of the price as well. Your review explains most of my unanswered questions.
@dihydrotestosterone2 жыл бұрын
4 a.m. here in Montreal Canada... you're becoming my defacto audio channel! Thumbs up for your work... 👍👍
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Speaking of which, it is 1:30 in the morning and I am going to sleep. Hope too many rocks won't be thrown at me until I wake up! Seriously, thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.
@hometheaterjoe94892 жыл бұрын
Agreed, no BS with Amir. He didn’t like my MC1 but I love and appreciate the honesty… BOOM
@mb-electricalservices2 жыл бұрын
7500 dollars!! You could set yourself up with a nice pair of active monitors and a great DAC/streamer for that sort of cash! Wow
@michaelwright16022 жыл бұрын
I’ll keep my OPPO, it not only plays SACD flawlessly, but movies too! Win Win! And it wasn’t $7000+, not even close.
@fadetoblack.-10 ай бұрын
very true, but the Marantz is still better sounding.i used to own the oppo nothing over the top sound.
@rtg061610 ай бұрын
At the end of the day, it's the ear that tells us how good a product is. I would take signal measurement with a pinch of salt.
@silva_5792 жыл бұрын
Loving the higher frequency of posting videos lately! And speaking of high frequencies, would be interesting to see how much additional power is drawn when playing that ultrasonic garbage from sacd in a typical home amplifier setup vs a regular cd, maybe with a kill-a-watt or something more precise
@bwiz65142 жыл бұрын
high frequencies take so very little power to reproduce..
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
The bass notes still dominate so I don't think power consumption is impacted in a way that is measurable.
@andrewskaterrr2 жыл бұрын
For those interested in SACD ripping: It actually is easy to rip SACDs. Last month I bought a $40 Bluray player off eBay, and used the usb script to rip my SACDs to DSF and ISO. There’s an article at PSAudio that documents the whole process and has a lot of explanation and fluff. I use Foobar2000 to play the DSF file, and convert to 192/24 5.1, and HDMI to my JBL SDP-55
@andrewskaterrr2 жыл бұрын
@@cosmicenforcer2534 nothing wrong with fair use of media you bought. It’s the same as ripping your CDs lol
@andrewskaterrr2 жыл бұрын
@@cosmicenforcer2534 lol you're funny
@mgrsdgfsdafsdgrsdgfsdg69802 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I was looking for SACD's on Amazon and bought one only to be sent a used one. It was only $10 and some loser obviously bought it just to rip it. I mean, come on, this loser couldnt afford $10 -- and shame on Amazon for sending it out as new.
@andrewskaterrr2 жыл бұрын
@@mgrsdgfsdafsdgrsdgfsdg6980 I'd bet that 99.9% of SACD users are NOT ripping their discs. Most people think it's not possible, or don't want to deal with the process. Some people sell their player and so sell their discs, now that you can buy hi-res files online, or on Bluray. Most SACDs you're going to buy will be used as it's a essentially a dead format.
@michaelwright16022 жыл бұрын
@@andrewskaterrr I still have SACDs, just bought a hybrid disc, Grace Mayha Last Live at DUG Tokyo… Fantastic disc.
@CyberBeep_kenshi2 жыл бұрын
Always used Marantz equipment, just love the sound :) Had a pm 80 and cd 80 for yearssss. Currently an av8003, bit heavier ;-)
@user-dm7lc9si7i10 ай бұрын
Amir, can you please explain why your test of the dac with the usb input has anything to do with the performance of this player with SACD discs? Does an SACD player have a separate DAC or just additional circuity to handle decoding DSD? My understanding is that there are separate lasers for each format but beyond that I confess I don't know what the processing chains are like.
@avro662 жыл бұрын
Another overpriced device with mediocre performance,
@alphaniner37702 жыл бұрын
Indeed. All the artificial hype that was generated about the 'renaissance' of this brand already made us cautious.
@charlesludwig91732 жыл бұрын
After listening to Dire Straits BIM in 5.1 SACD, going back to stereo is like going back to a Coke gone flat, no fizz. Thus, my OPPO-205 has replaced my Sony DVP-S9000ES and I am now having all sorts of good times from 5.1 SACD finds out there.
@merakrut2 жыл бұрын
Great job as usual, informative and educating. Once again this proves that bad measuring is not equal to bad sound. I have done listening tests of several DACs and SACD players and for me the Marantz SA-10 and also the SA-12 (Ruby) sound so amazingly good, 3D, sweet, and natural. All the others were more or less tiring But, with Marantz, I relaxed and enjoyed the music. My hearing is quite good, from 18Hz to, 17700kHz My equipment: Pre amp; Topping PRE90 Power am(s); Audiophonics MPA-M400ET Speakers; Audiotronic Megatrend Mk1 Headphones; Sennheiser HD820
@hypnoz78712 жыл бұрын
It's all in your head. (cognitive bias) Everything you can hear can be measured. (good cd players have achieved transparency since a long time). Also SACD and DSD are obvious snake oil.
@JACKnJESUS2 жыл бұрын
As has been pointed out many times by now...that is your bias kicking in. Which does work...but can get very expensive without any actual improvement in the audio. You can just as easily buy the $100 dac which will crush the Marantz' in almost every way sonically...and your brain will then tell you it is great. Even if you just hook it up to a capable CD player. All it really takes is...you. The difference is...one way you pocket $6500 bucks.
@johnwet6969 Жыл бұрын
@@JACKnJESUS All about audio is mystery for me. More I know about it and more I see and understand all measurement, less I understand why it sounds as it sounds. Marantz, Denon, Accuphase, measures bad but sound wonderfully. Then I bought OPPO UDP 205 which measures great and guess what? For me it sounds like shit. I sold it immediately.
@user-fj9lh8zt9c Жыл бұрын
@@JACKnJESUS We cannot accurately and absolutely predict *based on measurements* which product will be enjoyed more than another. I believe 9/10 would choose the entry level Accuphase E-280 before a top-of-the-line measuring Benchmark AHB2 in terms of pure enjoyment.
@JACKnJESUS Жыл бұрын
@@user-fj9lh8zt9c No one can know ahead of time...but once tested...bad results are bad results. Now folks ears may be off...but that's on them...not the equipment. You want the best and accurate reproduction of the music as possible...for the dollar. If you pay a big check...you should get great frequency reproduction for your coin.
@im_an_alvani2 жыл бұрын
You’ve been on a roll lately, love the uploads!
@BriansModelTrains2 жыл бұрын
Panther with no pants. Great video. Wonder how my 20 year old Rotel SACD (corrected HDCD) player would fair but I am not sending it in for testing as I use it all the time. Keep up the great work.
@strqrt702 жыл бұрын
I wasn’t aware Rotel made an SACD player. I bought a Rotel about 15 years ago that had HDCD capability, but in a quick Google search, I don’t see any SACD models from them.
@BriansModelTrains2 жыл бұрын
@@strqrt70 ooops you are correct. High Definition CD. Rotel 1072 HDCD. I stand corrected.
@strqrt702 жыл бұрын
@@BriansModelTrains I have one of those as well. Great player for the money.
@hometheaterjoe94892 жыл бұрын
Love your work sir, love the website as well. I know your busy and already did review on the Emotiva MC1 on website, would love to see that on KZfaq if possible… BOOM!!
@modeavant2 жыл бұрын
Thanks very much for explaining each variable, and how we might sonically experience, during your video. Would you consider performing assessment of Marantz ND-8006 CD Streamer? It's price is well below $7K+ USD (around $1K+ USD I believe); but, more people could afford this option for playing standard CDs and be curious how it compares with similarly priced players. Thanks again from San Francisco.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
If someone sends me one, sure.
@markkinsman50132 жыл бұрын
check the way the disc is seated in the tray. The tray has a slightly raised edge making it easy to have the disc loaded incorrectly, resulting in “no disc”.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Good point. I will have to double check that.
@hdmoviesource2 жыл бұрын
I wonder how a technics SLG-700 measures for MQA and SACD? I measured standard CD performance and it measure exactly the same as my Reavon X200. I didn't measure hi-res audio, but I will have to in the future.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Would be good to know!
@robertjones8856 Жыл бұрын
Amir explains complex issues in a way a layman like me can understand. I love listening to music via cd, or mp3 player. If Amir could be proven wrong im sure these big companies would challenge him, on the whole they dont. Great work Amir, best wishes. (rob).
@robertyoung1777 Жыл бұрын
Can anyone recommend a good SACD and/or red book CD player in current production?
@alvarocoutinho31038 ай бұрын
Marantz SA-CD 30n.
@robertyoung1777 Жыл бұрын
Hi all! I like playing CDs. It’s nice to be able to look through my collection and pick out something to play. Streaming leaves me cold because I have to think of what I want to hear. The content versions on Qobuz aren’t the same as the record snd CD versions I know and love. I do rip CDs apple lossless and play them with my phone. That’s great too.
@jonwatchesnyc87772 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another thoughtful and well explained video!
@Wizardofgosz2 жыл бұрын
Ah excellent. I was hoping you were going to examine the analog outputs of a SACD player to respond to the people in the last video.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Yes, that was another motivation to do this video. I also measured output of two DACs for same reason and both passed that ultrasonic noise as well, contrary to what people thought.
@Wizardofgosz2 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview BAM.
@SuperLionman123 Жыл бұрын
What a great review! Is there a similar review on the Denon 110 anniversary sacd-player?
@alvarocoutinho31038 ай бұрын
Well, reality is the format is alive and taking back, with more players and mídia on the market… 😎
@h0ll0wm9n2 жыл бұрын
Out-friggin'-standing. Can't thank you 'nough, Amir! I'm sure the DSD pill-pushers over at Octave Records are thinkin' ..... "oh FAWWWWCK .... not again !! " LOL ;)
@JohnTwo12 жыл бұрын
The problem is that the disc is multi channel. Multi channel sacd discs must be DST compressed, both the stereo and multi channel files and since that is a a stereo player it has no dst decompressor. That's a scam for 7 grand.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Yeh, I realized that may be the issue as I was doing the video. It should still say something better than "no disc" though.
@legrandmaitre71122 жыл бұрын
Science and HiFi... 😐🙄 As he casually demolishes one of the finest CD players ever made.... 😕 Tell me Mr Measurements, I can work out a great deal about somebody by their taste in music - please share the music which gives you the greatest pleasure. No? Not so interested in music then? Just a clue... music is art. Music is truly one of mankind's greatest achievements. Some of the most gifted musicians in the world did not make perfect music, nor was it always perfectly recorded. Strangely we can't measure why Janet Baker was sublime but sadly Renee Fleming isn't. So what is that really all about if it can't be measured? 🤔🤫 The trouble is that when we listen to recorded music - we have the music, the listener and the equipment. Which presents us with a rather more mysterious kind of equation. I'm off to listen to Jay, he's a clever lad, he's made that journey beyond his scientific background...
@AudioScienceReview Жыл бұрын
There is no Mr. Measurement here. If you are asking me for great music recommendations, we have one of the longest running thread on music on ASR. See: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/what-are-we-listening-to-right-now.40/ Remember, your equipment is not the art. The art is the music. Your equipment is engineered piece of hardware that is supposed to be transparent to let the music/art through. Don't let some engineer impose their own "art" on your music unless you like your TV always too green or too blue.....
@Enemji2 жыл бұрын
“Transports” 🤣 Out of all audiogeek terminology, as an engineer I find this the most hilarious
@luislunacortez19292 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your review Amir My question is what are the data that cannot be measured and it affects the sound quality ; how is the data that can be measured and affects the sound quality. Not all the equiptments that sounds good to our ears measure good and viceversa . I think a review must contain and being correlated both the objective ( measurements) and subjective (listening session) in order to have the whole picture. You know that two gears that measure the same as thd, itmd power and other numbers don't sound the same this apply for any kind of gear speakers amps sources. To me the human ears capture many features that the microphone and audio analyzers can't . Best test is both number and listening . I cannot buy a gear base my decision only in measurements these can give you an idea but the listening experience gives you the real picture even though we know that after certain age our ears can not listen the same range frequencies . To me a good review is using a young person with huge range abilities and experience listening different equipments and correlating with the measurements, and I think that s the way stereophile did its reviews. One more thing when Sony and Phillips developed the cd and the digital formats they thought if measures good equals sounds sounds good but that is not 100% correct even these days.Thanks my 2 cents
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
There is nothing to listen to. The player is essentially transparent to the format it is playing if you don't use the slow filter which rolls off the highs. This is what measurements can do for you: inform you that the product objectively performs, obviating the need for an expensive and time consuming controlled listening test. If you mean that I just turn it on and listen to music, that tells me nothing and should not tell you anything either. Stuff that reviewers say in this regard is all imagined fantasy. They will flunk any controlled test to back them. So I would not put any value on their remarks. Agree that CD came close to perfection but didn't get there. Amazing for what they did at the time though. A 24 bit, 48 kHz format would have covered the extra bit that it did not.
@luislunacortez19292 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview sorry but the gears are made for listening to the music rather than for being measure , they were measured and adjusted at the design stage . Do you know that many stereo companies measure their products and after serious listening sessions adjust and voicing their products. If you disregard the correlation between measure and listening you never get the whole picture of a product .Thanks
@orangejjay2 жыл бұрын
@@luislunacortez1929 This is a stupid comment. Everything you hear has a corresponding measurement that can be seen on a graph. To think that there's magic being transmitted from a digital device, something that was created using measurements, is INSANE. Grow up and accept that we can measure things. If we couldn't, then there'd be no way to capture it on CD or compress it down to MP3.
@luislunacortez19292 жыл бұрын
@@orangejjay I accepted that we can measure things but not everything in audio as you can Accept that everything in audio is not measurable . Having a narrow mind and trying to push others to think on your way is a greater stuoidity one more thing does not respect others point of views is another stupidity 🙄.
@gil3green2 жыл бұрын
I have over 1000 CD's and continue to buy thank you! Yes I have vinyl as well.
@steveknight8782 жыл бұрын
quick question: you say that we cannot hear anything below -115 dB, which is fair enough. But if there is a signal (jitter, for instance) that is, say, -120 dB - with actual music content, would that not potentially constructively interact with some of the music frequencies, and so change the volume of those frequencies, and thus have an effect?
@alexz12322 жыл бұрын
Hearing threshold is about 0dB, anything quieter, we cannot hear it reliably. If the jitter is down at -120dB, that is a million times quieter, and therefore completely irrelevant. Or to put it another way, you would need your music to be 120dB loud for that jitter to be at 0dB. So you could give yourself hearing damage and still never hear, because our ears don't have that kind of dynamic range.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
It would move the needle that much, or I should say that little, so it won't be audible.
@davestevens41932 ай бұрын
Fortunately people don't listen to measurements. We listen to music. I'd much rather listen to any R2R DAC than a D90. I do own a Topping DAC for my TV rig.
@VilleMetsola2 жыл бұрын
I love these videos, hope to see more. :)
@paddington91992 жыл бұрын
Sorry, I don't understand a lot of tecnic things and english language, but I have a Marantz sa10. My question is the following: the defects that you find with your apparates are audible or not audible? If they are not audible (I mean: if nobody can perceive them), this means that, from the "fidelity" point of view, every cd player from this level on, is exactly the same for the listener. Probably the price differences are due to materials, reliability of construction, precision of the mechanic and optic parts, durability over time, cost of the components used, and so on...
@AudioScienceReview Жыл бұрын
You likely won't hear the impairments. Conversely, you have paid a lot of money to get an average performing device. Unless you need to play SACD media, I would just use digital streaming into a good DAC for a fraction of the price.
@bri_the_way Жыл бұрын
Hey Amir, I started looking into possible SACD players--obviously this one is way out of my price range--but you mentioned in your review that you have some SACD's. I was curious what player you currently use/suggest. I know not many people are interested in this sort of thing, and I didn't see many reviews for them on the Audio Science Review forum, but was curious if you have any recommendations
@AudioScienceReview Жыл бұрын
Hi there. I don't play my SACDs anymore. Instead I purchased a bunch of dsd downloads which I play occasionally using Roon player.
@bri_the_way Жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview Oh okay okay, thank you so much for clarification!
@balazsbukovics35692 жыл бұрын
The R2r dac modules and mp audio lt3035 regulators ,plus usb i2s converter costs around 1200 us,and sound just amazing,analogy with incredible sound stage and clarity. cheap dacs like you prefer newer use proper regulations.
@Nephilim-812 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the added noise could possibly be pleasing to our brains whereby it trick us that something sounds better than it does measurably? I think AC regeneration falls under the same circumstances. Lastly I’ve never based a recording on bit depth over 16/44.1 to determine the best sonic quality. The sonic quality lies in the mixing and mastering process. I’ve got tons of redbook CDs that slay these 24/192 or ridiculous 32/384 nonsense.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
If ultrasonic noise is good, we would have built it into our audio equipment a long time ago than stuff it in a music format!
@Nephilim-812 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview yeah Amir. So I hope you can find an SACD player that measures to its claims and show us the difference. We love your lab like instruments and trust your findings. Well, at least I do. :)
@Seiskid2 жыл бұрын
I lot of people seem to like replacing opamps with high speed ones without any thought to stability or power rail decoupling. I suspect some of the the "vastly improved soundscape" they then rave about is high frequency oscillation.
@XX-1212 жыл бұрын
audio fidelity / acoustic sounds and Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs still are putting out sacd's that are stuff besides classical for people interested in the format. personally i'm still in to cd's. so i don't mind the reviews. but just like some people like listening to records, some of us like cd's (as long as they aren't victims of the loudness war). it's nice to be able to stream whatever you want but if it's something i really like i buy the cd so not only do i have a lossless copy that will survive a computer crash or hard drive failure but i'm also supporting the artist.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
That's perfectly fine. That is why I continue to test products like this for which I have no use, but I know others are different.
@stddisclaimer80202 жыл бұрын
If price were not mentioned, one would assume that a $100 player was being reviewed. What's up with the quality of Marantz (these days)?
@jayjackson2710 Жыл бұрын
Did you turn off the dithering? I can't even listen to mine with it on.
@WDeranged2 жыл бұрын
I'd love to know how this compares to their bog standard CD player.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I have tested a professional Tascam CD player. Please see: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tascam-bd-mp1-review-cd-blu-ray-player.26969/ Since the content was 16 bits, that was the best it could do. The Marantz supports USB input for high-res so did better but on CD, it was the same as the Tascam (i.e. format limited0.
@charlesludwig91732 жыл бұрын
My pleasure with 5.1 means a new stereo only SACD Player is not for me but for those interested in stereo get a Sony UBP-X800M2 and connect to a cheap Marantz NR1200 via HDMI to get lifelike sound from stereo SACDs like you've never heard. I suspect that double blind listening comparison to SA-10 would reveal indistinguishable performance between systems.
@zogzog1063 Жыл бұрын
More good stuff from Amir! I would buy this if it was like $2K. I just love the look of Marantz products (I only have one - a tuner). For now I stick with my Oppo 205.
@rotecrl97192 жыл бұрын
uhhh, now I'm curious. Have been looking for a proper CD player for quite some time now. I miss the commitment to just one album because I am too lazy to get up and change CDs before it has finished ;-)
@JesusMartinez-mk6fc2 жыл бұрын
Great review Amir! Way overpriced for the level of performance. I'm glad I jumped on the last Oppo UDP-205 in town back in 2017. It's a universal disc player that plays just about every format for a fraction of the cost of this Marantz and it measures much better as your review of the 205 showed on ASR. Marantz gear isn't what it used to back in its heydays. I own a marantz AV8801 processor and after a couple of years of use, I realized that lacked transparency.
@henriksrensen32202 жыл бұрын
The Marantz is much better than the oppo
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
The Oppo was a fantastic product.
@charlesludwig91732 жыл бұрын
@@henriksrensen3220 baloney
@willbrink2 жыл бұрын
7k+ ????!!!!! They have lost their minds. I say that as someone who has what was their top multi format player at approx 2k at the time and had their 6006 streamer at one time. Streaming ended my interest in CDs, much less SACD the minute I heard good streaming with almost and endless library of music.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I think considering inflation, those $2,000 players of 1990s should sell for a lot more. Still, I am with you all the way. I not only stopped buying optical media with streaming, but also stopped buying downloads as well. With streaming you get access to so much great music that makes no sense to keep playing the same few discs/albums you have over and over as some audiophiles do.
@willbrink2 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview I didn't purchase a single LP when CDs came out, and I doubt I will ever by another CD or download, with streaming as good as is it. I was late to the party on streaming, because I remembered how terrible and compressed it was before, so I had a bias that kept me from trying it again. I'm never an early adopter of tech, and prefer to let others be beta testers, and such, but once it's ready for prime time and cost effective, I'm all over it. I don't let nostalgia and feelz get in the way of the audio...
@stddisclaimer80202 жыл бұрын
How does the SA-KI "Ruby" player compare with this SA-10? Would it be pretty much the same review?
@philipperouillier95952 жыл бұрын
But the price in France NOW for the Marantz sa10 , is near 4800 euros ( with tax ! ) and not 70000...the value is diffetent , i bought the Marantz ruby limited for 2800 euros ( 4000 € in the AD) last sacd player from Ken Ishiwata before is death...quite the same that the SA10 ( but not balanced) but with same drive ! A fantastic machine for the price ....i have since 2019 , always a pleasure
@JohnSmith-zl8rz5 ай бұрын
$3200 in Japan
@SwirlingDragonMist2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated :)
@herrtrigger72202 жыл бұрын
Topping, SMSL, Matrix owners are under the impression their products are resolving 120db SINAD from redbook CD playback. A big reason for this is the CD playback test here showing 91db SINAD was not performed on the top tier SINAD DACs. Is 91db also the limit of the top tier DACs when fed a signal from a 16 bit CD? I was under the impression 91db was the MINIMUM needed for CDs to be dithered, that appears to be misleading if it's also the maximum SINAD any DAC can produce from a CD. For someone who only streams 48k music and plays redbook CDs, is there any value in a 120 SINAD DAC?
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I am not quite clear on your question. If you mean that you are limited to CD's dynamic range, that is correct. The more quiet DACs though do contribute to the total system noise beyond what the format is doing although that impact will be quite small.
@MB-wz8nn2 жыл бұрын
These tests, how can you relate or identify the distortion when you are listening to music? Maybe you can do a review or test where you match the distortion to the distortion or imperfection in the sound when playing music? Low bottom end, weak mid range, soundstage imperfection or narrowness, treble that is flat? Thanks
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Hearing distortion requires formal training and many, many hours of work to get good at it. So I can't really explain it in words. Tonality however, is trivial for just about everyone to hear which is why we can all differentiate speakers.
@saiprasad80782 жыл бұрын
This component was after the merger I think. Marantz quality after Philips exit is questionable.
@dihydrotestosterone2 жыл бұрын
I have seen enterview from Amir on another channel and he said that Denon products measure better than Marantz! 🥳
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Sadly it is true. And they charge more for them as well.
@-aexc-2 жыл бұрын
the reason i think they succeeded with hacking is because they failed to get it adopted, if there was enough motivation and reason for it to be cracked it would have been broken wiiide open with a simple way to access it.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Good logic. :)
@techgenadvisor90572 жыл бұрын
I really hope you keep your transparency approach in the future also, highly informative and science proof over your content. Would you do a review to Bakoon/Enleum products? That would loose a bit the curtains on this premium, yet unusual designs, curious how will stand next to Benchmark amp.
@henriksrensen32202 жыл бұрын
It's not proof of anything. You can't measure all aspects of sound quality.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Please drop them off a note and see if they send one in for testing. Companies that build good products will follow through with doing so. If not, I will keep my eyes open for a loaner.
@henriksrensen32202 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview if a product meauseres superb but sound is disappointing, (i have a few examples) then you can't use meauserments to determine sound quality at all, then its useless.
@twentythreeeightyeight52602 жыл бұрын
As always, thank you very much mr. Amir!
@goahead3995 Жыл бұрын
As a HiFi nut for over 30 years, the CD is my favorite source of music. I have owned this CD player, along with the PM-10 dual mono amplifier. They are some of the most beautiful audio equipment I have ever owned. The Japanese craftmanship is definitely high-end. They sounded very good. Marantz is always known for their detailed, warm sound. Long story short. I sold this CD player, and currently own Denafrips Venus II DAC + Jay's Audio CDT2-MK3 CD Transport. They sound even better than the Marantz SA-10. So the $5500 Chinese built DAC+CD transport sounds better than the $7500 Japanese CD Player.
@Burevestnik9M7302 жыл бұрын
high end audio is a scam
@MrBoomtheroom2 жыл бұрын
whats the best dac/sacd player you have tested?
@cengeb2 жыл бұрын
When Philips and sony introduced SACD, it was magically when the CD patents where running out, after like 17 years, Philips held most of the patents for optical discs, record able and RW etc. SACD was their attempt at extending patents royalty INCOME , to license to all the ones making players, discs etc. since CD patents running out, meant no more royatlys to Philips, they used to get like $700-$800 MILLION in royalty for every disc made, sold and player etc by all the licensees ..heck, at one time Marantz was a Philips company, long sold off
@safaeslambolchi4129 Жыл бұрын
Noise noise noise! Can we even hear these noises?!!! No mention about how this unit sounds! How about the sound stage of the DAC?!!
@paylnyles2 жыл бұрын
Well it was on my shopping list with matching amp x.
@robwr7372 жыл бұрын
It costs how much? Give me a break!
@oppje61882 жыл бұрын
Did dca let you keep the stealth's? Well played
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
No they asked for it back. I liked it so much I bought it from them by exchanging some gear I owned for equiv. cost.
@LJ-mp7ir2 жыл бұрын
Sa10 fit and finish is excellent, remote is good. Now on to the sound quality, do yourself a favor and buy the Denon 110 anniversary and save 4k for a disc player that is way better in sound quality. The marantz has filters that no matter what setting it’s in filters the music and makes everything rounded off both on the highs and the lows. If you want superior sound to the Denon 110 and have a hi end dac already, buy the jays audio cd transport for about 2500 dollars, it is vastly superior to both.
@TascamTascam11 ай бұрын
I just bought a 110. I have a $16k McIntosh preamp, McIntosh 400w power amp and Martin Logan electrostatics. This player sound way too bright, hyper detailed on regular CD. , has no warmth to the sound and not enough bass. I am going to have to send it back
@LJ-mp7ir11 ай бұрын
@@TascamTascam You bought the Marantz or Denon? Either way, I don’t foresee you finding the bass you desire as the Martin Logan’s are always lean sounding, that is their signature sound same thing with B&W speakers. The B&W are even more bright, than the Martin Logan’s.
@TascamTascam11 ай бұрын
Not true. I already have it with my 24 year old Sony SCD-1 Sacd player @@LJ-mp7ir
@PSM-IPADZ_OX2 жыл бұрын
Wow, spending $7,500 buy so much of supersonic “noises” ? However, that’s a special niche of audiophiles overflowing with huge disposable income so MARANTZ don’t have headaches selling them !
@MisterAMG122 жыл бұрын
Thanks !
@ar_xiv2 жыл бұрын
I feel like your user rating bar graphs always just make a bell curve that mirror whatever sentiments you’re presenting in your review. Surely that many users don’t own these products or am I mistaken? I don’t quite understand the point of the user ratings tbh.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
It is a way for the membership to look at the same data and with whatever other criteria (look, price, etc.) pass on a judgement. For the most part judgements of mine and theirs are based on reliable information in the review so it is not surprising to see most agree with me. But often you see broad distribution and everyone voting in a different class than me, is disagreeing with me. This can be half the membership or more when combined in some cases. So it is definitely useful as a second opinion from larger crowd looking at similar data.
@jabbejokker6 ай бұрын
Amir seemed to Purposely avoid speaking of the unique allformat to 1 bit dsd upsampling design which warrants the slow roll of filter. It almost seems like he’s bought off by the Chi-fi industry
@milkman1000012 жыл бұрын
im very interested in transports. whats the point of sacd if theres only 2 channels..cant play Pink Floyd. no good then..lol
@povertyspec96519 ай бұрын
SACD is amazing for music like Bruckner's symphonies. Disappointed in the performance of this $7,500 player.
@jimshaw8992 жыл бұрын
Tests like these raise the question, "Do audioligarchs with lots of cash deserve to be fleeced by snobby badges?" And another question: "Does spending $50,000+ for a stereo generally get you 10X (or even 2X) better music playback than spending $5,000?" Of course, there are similar questions. "Why would someone buy or lease a Hummer or an Escalade to commute to work?" Perhaps there will always be a market for genuine alligator shoes.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
On some components, spending more definitely get you more. Prime example is a speaker. To get down to 20 Hz, have incredible dynamics and flat response and smooth off-axis, it not going to come cheap at all. And the larger the speaker, the more power it can handle deep low. After that, power amps to some extent are that way too. You can't get a 1000 watt amplifier for $200. But there, once you get to $1,000 to $2,000, you are there. On DACs and such, yes, $100 to $200 these days gets you exceptional performance. Superb headphones also seem to cost money although there are some jewels in the $300 price range.
@jimshaw8992 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview I think you make my point. $1500* for an amp, $200* for a DAC leaves you with $3300 for a pair of speakers (based upon my $5000 minimum). Set aside $700 for a decent subwoofer that has an F3 of 20 Hz, and you still have a respectable $2600 for a pair of main channel speakers. [* your numbers and good ones] No, they won't power a hip-hop dance party or recreate what Andris Nelsons hears from the BSO podium, but that might cost $500,000 to come close. And require a dance or concert hall. I consider headphones to be mutually eclusive with speakers. You just never listen to both simultaneously; most folks I know listen to just one exclusively. Arguably, the $3300 spent for speakers might buy some dang fine headphones. And I know that for just $8000 more than the $5000, you can buy that new Marantz CD player. And for $8000 more still you can buy a McIntosh with some glowing tubes and blue meters. And PSAudio will gladly sell you a DAC for $6000 and a pair of speakers for $40,000. Audiophilia can be a rabbit hole. High end audio can be a 6-figure money sump rivaling a Bentley or a yacht as a depreciable investment. But how much better will the result be? A; Probably a little bit.
@vinyljunkie072 жыл бұрын
ahhh SACD another trick to extend tanking music sales hoping it would do a similar thing to when the CD was launched whereby many people re-purchased music they already owned and so extending sales. It was super interesting to see those response graphs which go to 1M! All that ultrasonic noise wow. Wonder what those old 1BIT MASH CD players look like as they push all that stuff in the high band range too. Personally as a end consumer format CD (44.1 16 bit) is superb in my opinion, DSD is a pointless pain in the ass. I don't know any major studio who records in DSD or DAW that natively works at those sample rates, most of the world still uses PCM. Recording at the higher bit depths and sample rates makes total sense in a studio environment but as a end consumer format rarely do you need 24 bits or that bandwidth after mixdown and mastering. Have a listen to most modern releases.. No dynamic range and aggressive equalisation.. All that technological advancement to play something that's made to sound good on a iphone lol
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Well said.
@strqrt702 жыл бұрын
SACD dates back over 20 years now. Wasn’t that some time before cd sales began to see a slump? So was it a trick?
@evgenyzveniatsky31255 ай бұрын
Absolutely useless review, based on wrong decision of using USB input for measuring performance of the great SACD player. Is anybody of the owners use it as standalone dac?? For what reason?! Wrong interpretation, incorrect results!!!
@henriksrensen32202 жыл бұрын
If you measure before listening, then you are biased. And you can't measure all aspects of sound quality.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
What does that say to experiences of all the people who buy these players and talk about how great they sound? That is biased, yes? You are also incorrect about the second part. We can absolutely measure what an audio device is doing. Things like noise floor, timbre, distortion, transparency, is all trivial as I show in my measurements. People like to close their eyes to the data and use that excuse about we can't measure. That is just lay justification of belief. It is not reality.
@henriksrensen32202 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview NO. it's not possible to measure all aspects of sound quality. Don't fool yourself into believing that.
@davecook83782 жыл бұрын
@@henriksrensen3220 You've had two chances to tell us what aspects of sound quality are not measurable, but instead you just petulantly assert this. The assertion doesn't even make sense: if you can't measure it, how do you know it effects sound quality?
@henriksrensen32202 жыл бұрын
@@davecook8378 In my 25+ years hifi journey, i have listened to products that meausure great but sounds disappointing, and i have also listened to great sounding products which meausure not so good. I know for a fact that you can't buy hi-fi based on meauserments. You have to listen.
@JesusMartinez-mk6fc2 жыл бұрын
@@henriksrensen3220Your belief for which you present no evidence whatsoever to back it up is analogous to saying that astronomers should make their observations simply with their eyes. The reality is that telescopes allow astronomers to make objective observations orders of magnitude more precisely than with their bare eyes. Likewise, modern electronic laboratory grade audio analysers like the Audio Precision unit that Amir uses to measure audio equipment, can measure and discern details in an objective manner to a degree of precision that far exceeds your sense of hearing and that is not affected by the biases imparted by your preconceived belief system and expectation biases. We've known very well for quite some time from scientific physiological and psychological studies that our various senses can easily be fooled and that includes the sense of hearing. Add to that, the fact that auditory memory is very short lived. I've been there myself many times and it can be hard at times to accept how our sense's weaknesses influence our perception of reality.
@JohnSmith-zl8rz2 жыл бұрын
so the model SACD 30N and the SA-KI Ruby are also shit?
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I have not tested them. In general though, you are wasting money on expensive transports.
@JohnSmith-zl8rz Жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview why you say "transports" ? there's NO marantz transports!
@zyghom2 жыл бұрын
@20:14 - you meant: "15/16 bit" not dB I think ;-). I would propose one more criteria: "price/weight ratio" as I can see it is very common in hifi audio and people pay for the weight although it brings nothing to the game ;-)
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Yeh, I commonly make that mistake and put dB instead of bits on graphs. :) Price to weight would be a funny ratio!
@fadetoblack.-10 ай бұрын
this is the strangest video I’ve ever seen he didn’t listen to the thing not once on the video anyway to give the old fashion, ear test, mined boggling!!!!
@Impackon2 жыл бұрын
You were talking about high res in relation to high frequency above 20 khz these are different things....
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Capturing high frequencies with high-res is the top thing consumers of high-res talk about. The other dimension, dynamic range, is harder for them to internalize. If you told them a format doesn't go above CD's bandwidth, they would lough you out of the room with "that is not high-res." This is the wikipedia definition: "High-resolution audio (High-definition audio or HD audio) is a term for audio files with greater than 44.1 kHz sample rate ***or*** higher than 16-bit audio bit depth. " Emphasis mine.
@Impackon2 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview 👍😏
@GrandHeresiarch2 жыл бұрын
Paying for the name and how nice it looks in an equipment rack I guess.
@dimtodim2 жыл бұрын
Hello, can you make review of Marantz pm8006?
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I don't have one to test but I will be on the lookout for it.
@dimtodim2 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview thx
@Edward135i2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate what you do, but I can't imagine anything 100db under of the fundamental is even audible.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Noise can be depending on playback level.
@genkifd2 жыл бұрын
did you compare other cd players (especially in regards to sound quality)?
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I have tested one other: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tascam-bd-mp1-review-cd-blu-ray-player.26969/ It did as well as the format allows so I would say with respect to CD, they would sound the same.
@genkifd2 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview i didnt do a blind test as i dont believe its always necessary nor i have the time. ive have test my oppo 105 vs 93 and i can say that 105 is better in my system. so imo not all cd players sound the same.
@r423sdex2 жыл бұрын
@@genkifd great news. Thanks for doing the tests.
@hughkleinsc89492 жыл бұрын
Have a Sony ubx 700 using a Linn organic dac streamer , Sony just spins and dac dose all the work , don’t waste money on a machine like this
@francisteardrop2 жыл бұрын
$7500 to play SACDs. I’ll stick with my $150 Sony Blu-ray player.
@JP4drumsFarrell2 жыл бұрын
While I enjoy your reviews in both written and video form, I find most products reviewed are out of the reach of a common citizen. (IE A $7500 SACD player) While it is nice to know a zero to 60 time on a Ferrari, do I really care?
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I test them because often companies charge a ton more but actually deliver a lot less. Until I test them, I don't know this.
@aljosamlinaric87052 жыл бұрын
20:08 *bit
@antoniohernandez65902 жыл бұрын
I wonder how my $200 Onkyo would do.
@robwr7372 жыл бұрын
My basic receiver has "all channels stereo" 🤣
@renehunt42522 жыл бұрын
Amir thinks sacd is the same as mp3 . Measures the same as everything else he measures
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Measuring MP3? No. Lossy codes have dynamic performance on frame by frame basis so you can't evaluate them continuously with measurements. For this reason we use controlled listening tests. You know, blind listening tests which is kryptonite to audiophile supermen. SACD bitstream does have corner cases but not variable like lossy codecs. So it lends itself to static testing as does the player.
@r423sdex2 жыл бұрын
Are you being silly ?. If so you did a good job.
@edverbeek62922 жыл бұрын
Who cares about measurements if you can't hear the difference?
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
How would you have access to this player to hear it? Measurements give you reliable information on which you can base decisions like you just did. I have for example tested Marantz AVRs that have more distortion than their near identical Denon AVRs. They have more distortion and cost more. Measurements would tell you to save money by buying the Denon and get a better product to boot.
@MaterLacrymarum2 жыл бұрын
I'd read a lot of good things about Marantz's cheaper units (amp and CD player) and went ahead and bought myself a set for use with headphones. It wasn't great, but it was good enough. Then my circumstances changed and I plugged in two speakers. Yikes. Horrible performance. Since then I've had a low opinion of them. Still, I do have SACD, so have been curious about this unit, so thanks for covering it. Let's face it, there's not a huge range of SACD players these days. I went with a Yamaha SCD 1000.
@XX-1212 жыл бұрын
yeah at one point i bought a Dennon (marantz's sister company) cd player that did HDCD and it sounded good with some stuff but then i noticed that it seemed like it was missing the low bass that i got off my other player. and come to find out all the players in that series had that problem because of the way it was designed. there was a fix for the top of the line model to were you could remove a piece off the circuit board and it would give you your bass back but the one i had was setup different so i just put it back together and got rid of it. ever since then i've been weary about buying their stuff, even though they've surely fixed that issue by now, especially being they got into the DJ market. that and i had also bought my parents i 50w/ch stereo receiver (which i still have) but i ended up with a Harman/Kardon 50w receiver that i swapped out with the Dennon after upgrading their speakers and the H/K blows that Dennon away hands down in both loudness and sound quality, but they're rated the same wattage??!
@dingdong2103 Жыл бұрын
My craving for SACD ended to the couple of samples I listened at high-end expos. I couldn't tell any benefit in the sound but the noise floor was very bad. The SACD version had a very noticeable hiss that was not present in the CD.
@malinyamato22912 жыл бұрын
Does anyone still listen to ASR and Amir!? You shouldn't! I have been working as a computer engineer in China and Japan for most of my life. I have meet audio engineers in Japan working for Fostex, Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Rotel and Sony. I have met Ken Ishiwata. I understand Chinese and I am near native in Japanese. Audio Science Review is not to be trusted as they are too corrupted and fully bribed by cheap Chinese audio makers especially by Topping and cheap audio makers in Shensen. What they produce is not what you will enjoy as a critical listener and the quality is poor. What ASR focus on is THD, that as a coincidence, is what all Chi-fi makers are focused on totally neglecting what consumers enjoy. ASR is doing measurements to make Toppings look good but in the end you won't enjoy as a listener. I have hardly any Chifi gear, I use high end stuff from Rotel, IFI, Fostex, Rega, B&W, REL acoustics, Audeze, Denon and Marantz. One exception is SMSL D1SE which i use as a DAC. ASR is a total waste of time. I was a senior member there but I decided to fuck them badly because of their bootlicking of cheap chinese makers. If Amir stop licking their boots he will become a homeless beggar. ASR is irrelevant and as a consumer your listening experience won't improve by following what they say. ASR is declining and will vanish... RIP ASR.
@joesshows67932 жыл бұрын
Dang that’s not good
@quaternion2 жыл бұрын
Correct me if I got it wrong but you claim to test a SACD player without even 1 SACD? That's the definition of 'fail' 😂😂😂 L-O-O-S-E-R 🤦🏻♂️🥳
@JesusMartinez-mk6fc2 жыл бұрын
He did test an SACD at 16:04 and the result wasn't very pretty for this Marantz player if you can even understand what the graph shows or Amir's explanation. Amir is no looser, he's an experienced electrical engineer and his curriculum in the audio industry is impressive having held key positions at Sony America and VP of an audio research department at Microsoft. He knows what he's doing in this domain more than you'll ever know. He's singlehandedly done more over the last five years or so than most audio magazines and websites do with their whole staff. With a few other notable exceptions, he's done more to debunk audio myths and set straight this crazy audio industry full of marketing BS.
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
I said I didn't have a *test* SACD that has special signals for measurements. Test signals are very difficult to generate in DSD format so hardly any test discs were published when the format came out. Philips is the only one really and it is long, long out of print. For music, I have plenty of SACD discs. When the format came out, I bought every title that was available for testing. And since then have bought a few more. So that is a confusion on your part especially since I showed two SACDs in the video itself. I have purchased a number of DSD downloads as well which I have analyzed in other videos.
@quaternion2 жыл бұрын
@@AudioScienceReview Therefore the 'Correct me if I got it wrong' 😉👍 Sorry, it was very late here in Germany, so after getting it wrong I didn't bother to watch the rest of the video. 😇
@r423sdex2 жыл бұрын
Have you got a SACD player ?. If so, get it on eBay.
@renehunt42522 жыл бұрын
Blah blah blah
@AudioScienceReview2 жыл бұрын
Blah blah blah back to you! :D
@r423sdex2 жыл бұрын
Amir, keep up the great work you do. And for free !. Blah blah blah bell end.