This is stupid. The Bible and Jesus are in Harmony.

Same here. The fundamental approach to faith can only carry one to a certain point. Yet, I still find myself learning from fundamental pastors as well.

It really doesn't matter what your personal beliefs are. What is important is what Jesus has said very clearly in the Gospels, and if you can't support anything you believe with what he's said, then you really can't call yourself a Christian, can you?

Borg's idea that Chrisian salvation is not about the substitutionary death of Jesus is something I'd like to look at in more detail. Can anyone recommend the book or books by him that most completely demonstrate this point? Thank you.

What do you mean by 'a different type' of faith?

If indeed he didn't find his way out of here, he will be viewing us across the great divide from hell.

Yes. It is. Listen to his Easter presentation to the same church. He covers all of it. Brilliant.

If Jesus was fully human as well as fully God he would have had human limitations. Jesus said he did not even know when the last judgement day was. So I can't see your argument.Also Jesus dieing for sin is an act of love not appeasement to God.

what's your point Stan? how old are you? how much future do you have?

flash91214 Thanks for your thoughtful comment! I appreciate it!

Oscar Romero

Join the Red Sox!

As a devout Christian, I agree with you in this instance.

***** In fairness, 32 ain't what it used to be. Vastly different societies between the modern world and Judea 2000 years ago. A modern 32 year old is going to be vastly different than one then. I don't think he was talking to all cultures across all of time, but the current context. It can still be held up as too flippant a comment for sure.

Natts Bab Those words were written by men. No one actually has the "exact" words of Yeshua written down because he did not write them down himself. Human logic is needed in order to understand this. The Holy Spirit speaks to us in ways that are far beyond what the scriptures have. God speaks to us in ways that are far beyond what the scriptures can convey. Logic will help you to understand that. What is in your heart cannot be expressed by mere words. You must look beyond the scriptures and filter out the human parts. Only then will you see what lays underneath. Here is a parable that Yeshua spoke (that was written down by Thomas) "The person is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He threw all the little fish back into the sea, and easily chose the large fish. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"--- Yeshua Think about what that means. To filter out all of the little "fish" and select the large "fish". Get to the core. Look for the main one. That "fish" is Yeshua himself! The portion of Matthew 13: 47-53 is but a copy and further misinterpretation and embellishment upon the more simple and fundamental teaching of Yeshua.

AtomicKinetic12 you are pretty good at understanding the bible. most pastors never graduate from malachi 3.10. they are stuck in the tithe argument their whole mministeries long, sad failures...

Natts Bab Here's another interesting comparison between Thomas and Luke/Matthew. "The (Father's) kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-nine.'" ---Yeshua Luke's version: 15: 3-10 is another man's trying to understand the more simple and basic teaching. It has been thought upon and given a meaning that Luke took from Matthew. But as it was written down by Thomas in its more basic and simple form one can see it with a different perspective. The idea held within the parable is to be selective. To look at the more fundamental aspects of the teachings. To know that God is the large "sheep" or "pearl" that is hidden within you and to filter out all of the other parts. As so one must also read the scriptures in this way. Not to discard it but to understand that these words are from the minds of human beings. Look beyond the finite interpretations of ancient men and see the universal core teachings which go beyond dated scriptures. Find the hidden meaning. The Holy Spirit will guide you through this.

And the fundamentalist literalist Christian wing has spoken, ignoring ALL Bilbical historical scholarly research and focusing on the surface at all costs. The ineffable and mystic elements of Christianity are incomprehensible to such people.

As I Catholic theologian, I find merit in Marcus Borg's argument that forgiveness of sins is available without the atoning death of Jesus: The Christian churches, misled by their triumphalism, have imagined that salvation history begins with the fall in the Garden and then jumps immediately to the birth of Jesus Christ who came down from heaven in order to open up the gates of heaven by dying for our sins. In this narrative, the importance of Jews and Judaism in God's plan of salvation becomes either systematically distorted or it gets passed over in silence. Within Judaism, the Hebrew Scriptures amply demonstrate God’s readiness to forgive sins following the act of teshuvah [i.e., turning back to God and God's ways]. See, for example, the classic case of David finding forgiveness for his sin of adultery and murder (2 Sam 11-12, Ps 51). Even in the Gospels, as this dialogue testifies, Jesus himself exemplifies his Jewish upbringing in proclaiming his Father’s readiness to forgive sins without any reliance upon Jewish suffering generally or upon his future crucifixion in particular. For far too long, the theologies of penal substitution have truncated and obscured the abundant forgiveness of God. Accordingly, readers are invited to join Edward Schillebeeckx in again affirming that “we are not redeemed thanks to the death of Jesus but despite it." To better understand this, go to payhip.com/b/dYFS Peace and joy in pondering the great questions, Dr. Aaron Milavec

You actually believe in a physical Adam and Eve? Even the author of Genesis 2 didn't. The Hebrew reads "ha-adam," which can be translated as "the earthling." It is a narrative never intended to be taken literally (except by those who can't possibly comprehend the concept intellectually.)

@@aaronmilavec1579 I heard Borg's lecture about Albert Schweitzer, who thought that Jesus believed his death would save all others from destruction during the Messianc tribulations that had been prophesied.

He doesn't know the biblie? He's a bible scholar, i bet he knows the bible much better than you and he surely does know it better than most of the people.

Maťo Kováčik Gospel Mark chapter 10 verse 45, "the son of man came to give his life as a ransom for many" are JESUS CHRISTS EXACT WORDS. SEE Romans ch3 verse 24,25 etc........

George Barnaby no matter how many times you post it, it doesn't mean he actually said it or that the phrase, as translated, means what you think. Sorry.

Understanding that the bible is not inerrant and infallible is probably the first thing that one struggles with when engaging in serious academic bible study. It smacks you in the face and can shake one's faith to its very core, but it is also something that every bible scholar confronts and wrestles with throughout his or her study of the bible. This does not mean that the Bible is not "god-breathed" or God inspired. However, it is important to understand the history of how the Bible was recorded, and the potential for the recording/translating/editing to be shaped by human influence and sometimes human imperfections. Reading the Bible through an academic lens reveals so much more than solely reading the Bible from a devotional standpoint. hamstercatfish don't be so quick to call someone a heretic-especially someone who has dedicated his entire life to biblical scholarship. Keep wrestling with these ideas mate!

don't think he's an idiot...just in need of certainty lest his world crumble.

That's the best criticism you have? The church is in Pasadena, a very affluent city. I suspect most of the local population are white.

Would that really change anything for you?

Haha I know this comment is a decade old, but it's just so stupid 😂