I second that

Yes it is. But under rated and people watching are different. Comic book movies are heavily watched and overrated . A movie like this appeals to people who understand the situation and appreciate good acting and a great story.

Go Vols

@@charlesbaldo if you think about it, there is no such thing as "overrated" and "underrated". Everything is rated exactly as it should be. If this movie was appealing to the average Joe, it would've been much more popular. But it isn't.

ТурбоТОП I totaly agree

true, great line.

Quiting when you're ahead.

I was drawn to that line myself, a manner of think.

It is a great line. Those that are left are so frantic in the panic, they don't even realise that the one who saw it coming and got out first had even left.

Maybe long-time friends.

Spacey is such a brilliant actor, and the woke have deprived us of who knows how many more brilliant performances by him.

Long time friends, close relationship that supersedes their roles within the firm. There is also a conflict of beliefs between the two. Sam is still grasping at the notion that what he does has some true productive value behind it. He is great at his job but yearns some redemption to actually create/build something productive. That's why he struggles to follow John's direction, even though, on a fundamental basis, that is the correct move. John sees the reality for what it is and has no qualms about it. He is playing the game of banking and making the right moves to win in the situation. He has no disillusions about it. Hence why he is the CEO. The breakfast scene later in the movie strongly concludes on this.

@@OldManNutcakez There's a progression from Seth just being in it for the money and what it buys, while Peter is also curious about how it works and affects people. Their boss, Will, says you have to believe the work has a useful, if cynical, function in society to last in the business. His boss, Sam, also believes the work has meaning and purpose, and this crisis breaks that belief. His (and everyone's) boss, John, comes back round to doing it for the money, because they work on cycles of boom and bust, and it might as be you coming out on top. And, of course, this means John is further enriched and Seth is discarded.

It’s because they did it before

@@GGPCTU Ambitious people who only care about money and power. Shit always floats to the top, usually because nobody cares about it like they do, and is willing to spend their lives to get it like they are.

I don't think they "realized it", they knew it all along. There's the scene with Will Emerson speaking about "holding the scales in people's favor, because they want the big houses and cars they can't afford". So everybody was in on this, it was just about the timing who "gets out of the door first" and who's "left holding the biggest bag of odorous excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism"...

noneedinname And even worse, starting 2002 especially in Europe they started putting black glass between em and the bombs so they basically dnt even see it lighting up faster cause they were making so much money they were like fuck that we’ll deal w it later now’s party time... Btw notation agencies were the black glass lmao

noneedinname I like what you did there

Using your analogy, all firms knew they had bombs with lit fuses.

When Kevin Spacey is in charge of risk assessment...

@@Arigator2 Please don't confuse Kevin Spacey "the person" compared to Kevin Spacey "the actor". Look beyond the dirt Slick.

Boiler Room -

I kept thinking of this scene out of my 30th floor Manhattan hotel room... looking out at night just me alone. Beautiful scene and I kept saying to myself this is a hell of a town. Love everything about it. Except mine was only for couple of nights... unlike this guy.

Boiler Room?

Well, in real life, the CEOs of the firms that were left standing, with bailout money, gave themselves fat bonuses. Dick Fuld of Lehman, went to work at another security firm. Not that he needed the money. Like Tuld says "It wasn't brain that got me here"

beautifully worded. my thoughts exactly

I don't agree with Sam's moral position within this movie. If it was only this firm that was selling an in house "defected" product knowingly, then yes. But the truth is, the entire Wall St was trading it. These MBS products were everywhere, and not necessarily created by this firm. There is no moral implication in selling you something that you already have and have been trading for years. Its just that I am the first one to figure out its all garbage and Im exiting my position. Im not misrepresenting the sale. You know what you are buying, and would have done your own DD.

Also, Tuld knew that any company that bought their MBS wouldnt be in business to buy more them them in the future anyway.

@@OldManNutcakez Well, we fucked up. Had we put them to the pike as we should have, we might have prevented these situations from happening again.

I don't cheat.

"its the start because we're starting it" "maybe but not THIS TIME" what does he mean no this TIME

That the house of cards is about to collaps, it doesn't matter who takes the last brick out of the wall. The default rates in CDO underlingnings were so high that the prices weren't realistic and a selloff wasn't avoidable.

abu abdullah ashar he means that this mess isn't orchestrated by his bank. (not this time). there is financial catastrophy on the horizont, and if you're the first to sell the toxicated bonds, you have a chance to survive - while the other banks have to suffer the devaluation of the bonds and maybe are going down, while his Bank may survive because of 'beeing first'.

@per aspera ad astra ¿ but a short study of game theory will show that this is impossible. This would require everybody on the market to trade products knowingly above their underlying value - further this might lead to legal issues if those products are then used as collateral for REPOS i.e.

HighMomentum1 Big Short is much better IMHO.

Pity the script doesn’t live up to quality of the acting

It's better than Wall Street because it's a thousand times more realistic. Wall Street was histrionic where Margin Call is calm and quietly moving.

@@andrzejkondracki9796 Oddly - I've never seen the Big Short, that I can recall. I'll have to see if I can rent it. Wolf of Wall Street is pretty good too, but I classify that as a different type of a stock trading movie.

Usually when a film has too many high profile actors it does not do well. But this is different. Amazing.

I think the fact that a junior analyst spotted it was what convinced Tuld that "the music has stopped". I think by that metaphor he meant that, no matter how inherently worthless a given security was, they would always be able to find someone else to sell it to at a profit. But this was the signal that the truth was about to become widely known.

If you watch the movie closely there are many subtle hints that everyone has been talking about this eventuality for years. Even in this scene, Sam, says he's been saying it for years. Earlier Sam tells Robertson in a whisper, "we talked about this" but you can barely hear it. There are other indicators as well. They all knew it was coming but the money was so incredible they couldn't bring themselves to do anything, until now.

Would’ve been awkward if another firm was doing their own fire sale the next day and they ended up trying to hand the bag to each other.

Yeah that's why they fired the senior analyst who was working on it because they knew we would certainly see through the veil. Maybe they thought the junior analyst had no clue and got his job without any real qualifications. But when they realised that the junior analyst came to the same conclusion...well they knew that was it. The meeting was never about discovering the issue, it was about discovering that other were able to see it as well.

Exactly. The truth was he had been buying swaps for months, and even Sam didn’t know this. Tulda had kept it from him.

Every CEO knew it was coming they just didn’t know when and didn’t want to jump gun but also didn’t want to be last. Once a small anaslyt figured it out he realized only a matter of days till it all unravels might as well be us first.

@@blakeswansonfitness6240 *analyst*

Why do you want me to hold that shit?

Pat Bateman I came to this movie too! While everyone watching contagion I came to Margin Call

And that little 2020 sell off was followed by one of the most insane bull markets ever as the Fed reserve printed a bunch of money and retail got into trading more than ever with their new-found free time and stimulus checks...

2008 was way worse lolo but I get your humor 🤣🤣

​@@aaronmichaelmusic_ Yeah, the worse thing we got from 2020 was "supply chain disruption", not trillions of dollars of capital devaluation.

That's not unlike saying the way to make money in the market is to time it correctly. Many can do that sometimes, but nobody can do it every time.

I agree

@@oneeyedman99 It's not so much timing the market as it is executing the fastest, being ruthless, decisive and not hesitating.

@@oneeyedman99 60% of the time it works all the time

I thought that was pretty profound as well.

@@jefffromjersey52 It is profound, but just as profound was the line, "it's the start, because YOU'RE starting it". Exactly

HighMomentum1 I disagree. It was going to start regardless. Bubbles don’t collapse because people start to sell, it’s because bubbles have to collapse.

Or lowest depending on who it is

Tuld screws the entire world without second-guessing his decision even once and Sam - despite being obviously uncomfortable - plays along with every move. Where are the character, morals, and ethics now?

Yes, but by dumping the entirety, or 90% of it, they exacerbated the problem.

@@@alexsivad2885 The implosion would have occurred anyway. Maybe next week, may tomorrow. All the did was say, it will happen today and reduced their losses by being the first out of the door.

@@nickl5658 They admit that their actions will make it worse for everyone else. That's the point of the movie: survive (on your own) or take the losses for everyone else.

It had already happened.

@msec Ses well you clearly didn't watch the film so I guess we're both morons.

Another thing I like about is the way how Sam was talking with John. The way that Sam was talking so freely with John, just make me imagine they were both starting from a junior salesman, probably knowing each other as an intern entering the firm during the same year. Then John rise so much quicker to this position than Sam, but still considers Sam as his trustworthy colleague

@@chunyinho1516 It is mentioned in the film (by I wanna say Will) that they started out at the firm together so they have a long history together.

He was starting was at that point inevitable. The housing market was only a portion of the financial crisis and included a lot more shadiness than these guys ever pulled at the highest levels of global finance and trade. Politicians play just as much fuckery on the economy as banks or firms or suppliers of resources. That shit is a web of competing cartels that kill a hell of a lot more than any drug lord ever did. It's always way bigger than Wall Street. Those guys just deal with what's in front of them and what could be. Money is simple, it's the flow of it that becomes its own living network.

Exactly! People can't seem to understand that this matter was a little more grey than might initially meet the eye

Hindsight. You talk like some genius cuz you already know how it turns out.... genius

@@GamePlayer775 there's mo morality here.

You're an idiot. Sam understood that perfectly, he was just morally against it. Did you even watch the whole movie or just this clip?

Some moral duty? Like the duty not to sell something fraudulent? If a counterfeiter sells fake money or a street vendor sells fake purses, it's fraud and they are jailed. Yet these guys sell fake mortgage backed securities and it's supposedly complex. Plus in real life they had months of time to fix things, not 4 hours .

Taken right out of the 80s guide book

Can you explain

@@adnanhusain8770 He (Tuld) is going against the established narrative that the housing market is a solid industry that is without risk. He sees that it will inevitably collapse and thus he'll be the first to act despite current wisdom saying that would be idiotic. He is right though; those who only later realize that the market is doomed will be the ones panicking as they'll be behind the curve, having to react.

@@johkupohkuxd1697 thanks 👍

A broken clock is right twice a day

B Ruggiano You were right,we now are!!!!!!!!!!!20/03/20

OK simple question.....how soon will something like this happen again?

hugh jadonga Bitcoin 2018

hugh jadonga When the Fed raises interest rates back to 5% or when Chinse begin selling their 1.2 trillion dollars worth of US treasury bonds

Things ARE "back to normal." Did it ever change? Does it ever change?

@@@malcolmbrannen Happening right now. My bet Jan 2019 with 95% probability. March 2019 with 99% probability.

But Jeremy Irons steal the whole movie

I see more of where he's coming from. If you're surfing, you catch the wave. The wave is bigger than you are and you have to get it just right. Too early, the wave crashes on you, too late and it passes you by. He is just making the call to swim in because it's time to catch the wave. He sees it coming, he's had his company ring alarm bells about the coming wave, but now he's decided it's time to paddle in. Catch the wave. He's not starting anything. He's telling his company that it's not too early anymore. If he's right, it won't crash on them, but if they don't catch the wave now, they'll all be left behind the wave and then washed out to sea.

Absolutely. Selling to someone who is willing to buy is not the issue. The problem was that the selling people were selling to brokers who knowingly used American 401k funds to purchase what they knew had zero value but did so anyway because they worked on "per trade" commission. We citizens lost $1.7 trillion, & then an additional $700 billion that the banks had the Government steal from us as a "bailout". They then used that bailout money to lend to the same people who robbed us in the beginning, to buy back the homes they made us lose & a huge discount. The US economy has been rolling the same $2.3 Trillion dollars since it was first reported missing in 2001.

"Well you're obviously operating with more information than I am" 1:53 - They knew it was coming.

Now it looks like there's going to be a slew of new movies like this one, with outcomes even more dire. :-(

Alan Lindberg before and during this period i ran a credit counseling business, we helped people through bankruptcy a lot. Busness boomed. I felt bad because business became so good. We may see a repeat.

A classic. Wayne.

Put... that coffee... down...

@@Anubisxian The only performance of Alec Baldwin's I've ever enjoyed.

"I was trying to lead the way. WE NEEDED A LEADER!"

@drmnys Eric the clown put it out with his big shoe.

The difference is between walking out first and running.

That's because the critical decisions on the market / government were made years ago, and now everyone is just suffering the consequence.

All these people are already rich. All you are saying is they should fuck other people to get richer. Just worship Satan and cut to the chase bro.

john Tuttle tough world my friend. If it was you sitting on millions that was about to become worthless, would you just sit there and watch it go away? If you answer yes, your a better man than me. I would have said to let me know which bridge you will be living under. I'll send over a pizza. Peace.

If I had millions like these people do would I fuck my best customers for more millions and then never work in this industry ever again because they know I have no more morals than a snake? No I wouldn't. A homeless man living under a bridge is worth more to humanity than a parasite like you.

john Tuttle it's just conversation John. I wouldn't get too worked up about a situation you and I will never be in. Relax.

Sam was fighting this because he knew what was going to happen and he didn't want to be a part of it. He didn't want to do it as he knew that it was going to haunt him in his sleep. Even though it's still going to happen if you are a part of it you feel bad. In the end he did just for the reasons that you pointed out. It's the most rational thing to do. He is the most realistic character of the entire movie in my opinion. I would have behaved in absolutely the same way that he did were I in his position.

Jerking off to underage people yes its a shame

Dave Crupel This was the rhetoric the right had when they blamed immigrants and poor people for signing up for these bad loans. “They should’ve known they wouldn’t be able to afford them” despite the fact that the banks actually DID know they wouldn’t be able to afford them.

@@svfutbol20 Yeah but you really should know if you're able to pay for it or not even if the banks are willing to lend you that money. You really shouldn't be taking out a 400k mortgage loan with 0 down at 8% if you're making minimum wage. That means you'll be paying just the interest on the loan forever until you die. No one's forcing you to take out the loan but you foolishly do it anyway because you hope that the property value appreciates and you'd be able to flip the house. It the greed of both parties, not just the banks, that cause these mess because it takes two to tango.

@@amsd1231 One of those parties is vastly more informed than the other. People are naturally optimistic about their lives, with promotions and things like that. Emotion plays a huge factor as well, considering raising a family and what not. Tell me, how much financial education did you have as a teenager in the school system? My guess is very little. I went to a great high school and I didn't get any. Most people don't even understand how the interest is written on their credit cards.

@@svfutbol20 All more the reason why they should be more cautious with credit because they are uninformed. Why is it okay to just go out and take out loans when you don't even understand interest rates? Yet people still did it because they saw someone else do it and make money. That's greed.

@@amsd1231 They are uninformed because the bank servicing the loan didn't inform them. Simple as that. A multibillion dollar organization with thousands of MBA, finance and business grads and lawyers to write up the contracts should have the burden of making sure their customers know every detail about what they are signing. but then they run the risk of not selling the loan, right? At that time, there was very little oversight in that regard. Look into the number of lawsuits that came out of the loaning industry. Not just big banks and mortgages, but small predatory lending as well.

Sam had a moral centre a human failing in this sort of business. He was thinking about the workers on the floor that would ruin their careers if they agreed to the ask he would inevitably make and he was thinking of the households that would end up decimated because they bought the trash he knew they were about to sell. Being the head of a money management group isn't some noble calling. They create nothing but heartache and destruction except for the lucky few at the top who get to grow fat off of the spoils. There's a reason why CEOs tend to have personality traits akin to sociopaths.

Wrong, Sam understood the bigger picture better and sooner than the CEO, only difference is Sam had morals.

The CEO saw Sam's morality as weakness - that was the other fundamental difference.

incipidsigninsetup first rule of corporate finance: create profits and keep the firm operating for shareholders/stakeholders.

Jeremy

Deregulation of the OTC markets starting with the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act among others, number one. Number two it was both greed AND negligence. They were negligent in that they knew that these kinds of loans were a shitty idea, to begin with, and that they would ultimately default, but they didn't care and ignored the warning signs until they did actually default. The money they initially made off them was just too good to pass on, so they swept the fundamentals under the rug and kept on pushing them in order to make their money. This isn't exactly illegal either. Highly immoral and unethical, sure, hence what Kevin Spacey's character was complaining and worrying about, but not illegal, so why would they be in jail for criminal negligence? It would only be a crime if they intentionally lied about its value, or sold it to illegal parties, which they didn't. People knew how shit these loans were but didn't care and willingly bought and sold them anyway because again, the quick profits and turnaround were just too good to ignore.

GoProJoe I found that watching The Big Short along with this movie Margin Call helped fill in each other’s gaps.

based on my knowledge, I maybe wrong but after 1992 atlanta riots federal government relaxed rules so everyone can have a house regardless of credit history. 2008 is the result of greed and lack of oversight, look up the movie "Too big to fail". My understanding of federal policy is from there, what can I say, I am an uneducated pleb.

@@briandeschene8424 I just watched the Big Short and Margin Call, the same day and it necessary to understand the all picture.

Watch the big short None of them cared because they were all getting filthy rich off it

NINJA loans. Giving a loan to someone with a No Income No Job Application...that's how you know the system is fucked beyond all recognition.

Well to be accurate, even being able to build and construct financial derivatives requires you to have a deep understanding of advanced calculus and logarithms many of which are used by the financial and the scientific industry alike. So these people come across such people everyday, so Sullivan is not a one-off. There are probably other people in the firm who are as intelligent but decided to use that to make money instead of putting effort into rocket science. Hence they created securities like the CDOs and MBS which can't be understood unless you have a really good insight into mathematical models.

It's their ego.

What an insult to Jeremy Irons to compare him with that clown.

Sam has a conscience, in that business it's bad for your career. Patrick Jane is a killer so eventually he will be, and is, in a higher position. Money first, people second. Or third or whatever. But NOT first.

Apparently that was the case even though the director and writer never completely acknowledged it. It was a fictitious, unnamed firm... that was actually based on Goldman Sachs.

...who were eaten alive.

@@pinkduskstone1543 exactly

Don't get into the situation in the first place. As I understand, from comments here & other places, this would never have been allowed before Deregulation because everyone understood what a time bomb it was.