I'm very critical of Ice-Man and was even surprised at how well he was received. I agree with you about your criticism. To me he just seems half-baked, similar to Rogue and Phoenix. A big problem is, that his basic attack on a villain has no real impact on the game. So you waste a basic attack to get 1 less damage or to prevent 1 threat. That's pretty bad. I think your idea, that his ability can be triggered by any basic power and you can then choose freely where to put frostbite, is great. Great video, as always. :)!

I did not think I would like Iceman a great deal, but what a shockingly pleasant surprise he turned out to be for me. I tried various things like leadership and so forth, but went back to aggression as I believe the most effective use for his frostbite ability is not defending, as it's effectively only like adding another point of defence, but attacking and flipping back down to subdue their scheme activation. Being able to recycle in multiple ice cards I found very powerful, and of course Utopia with him is excellent. Overall, he is easily in my top tier of X-Men heroes.

At 13:07 did you say "Just Ice Served?". Perfect! 😂

VT, just wanted to say that your powers of explanation of why things work/don't work in a hero kit are S-tier!

Excellent breakdown!! Thank you ❤

Great vid as always. I would love to see your take on an iceman - pool build. There is some fun lil combos for him in the pool aspect plus his alter ego is in the pool.

Love this deep dive! I can just continue to pick up add ons. And eventually get round to picking up Iceman. Still need some of the S-tier heroes.

man... this review was Ice Cold.... still, nice to see a new hero that is not an S tier right off the bat, i am a bit sorry that you waited so long for something that you didnt' enjoy that much but on the fun factor i must say I happily disagree :D

Great vid, enjoyed your insights! I’d love if you and Nelson did a video together to discuss from your opposing opinions! I know that would be fun and interesting!

Honestly, Iceman got me digging out my cards and playing again. I've been caught up, but didn't immediately jump to Age of Apocalypse until I knew Iceman was out and I could go and pick him up. I think he's a lot of fun, even if I'm still sorting out the decklist I've been playing, as I'm not sure the Aspect (Justice) is the correct one. It seems like it's more along the lines of people riding the popularity wave of Upside the Head. I'm curious to see what the rest of the wave will bring, as there's usually ideas that get expanded upon in the waves.

I thought at the beginning of the video I was going to disagree with you, but as I thought about it, I think you are indeed correct on most points. Now, to be fair, I've only had one solo game and three three player games with him so far. We are in busy season at work, so my gaming for the next 4 months will be way down😢 In solo, I took him up against expert Thanos with Reavers and Inheritors. It was a hard and long game, but was to be expected. That was in Justice. You really notice his weakness at the beginning when you have to thwart that side scheme, and you can't just focus on what you want to do with Iceman. in our three player game we are taking him through Mutant Genesis with Spider-Man and SP//DR. I did protection always ready with What Doesn't Kill Me, Aerial Intervention and a couple Leading Blow to hit the 40, as I'm running campaign and have Combat Training. He's actually been a pretty decent boon there. I ended up dropping repurpose/energy barrier because it brought in too much clunkiness. In zero Tolerance, with -2 or -3 on the Villian and the spiders base defense of 3 or 4 with boost, they can avoid entire attacks, even on Expert. Iceman is either face tanking or blocking with Tough Allies, so it works out well. An awkward situation I've ran into is not having enough feostbites for Ice Blast a couple times. When the Villian is Webbed up and Frozen Solid and eats a Stun, He may start the next round with 4 to 5 Froatbites on him already. Its really fruatrating to get that round you could push 12 damage off the card, but juat don't have the cards lol. He is also quite slow. By the end of my first deck pass, hes carrying pretty well, but does have that slog phase where if you don't really focus on setup it feela you'll fall way behind. I also think I agree on his builds. Probably what, 15 or so of his 25 cards you add in are pre-set, so I think you'll mostly be playing maybe one or two archtypes with him. I actually think his speed of set-up should probably be a 2. Everything else seemed pretty good. While a small sample size, I do think based off the current pool hes still a B tier hero, which is just fine. It will be interesting to see if ai ever want to go back to him. I also think he'll probably hold up better at higher player counts. I originally thought he'd be a great solo character, but I don't think he'll actually shake out that way.

Even if you aren't a big fan of the hero the video was lovely as usual. I appreciate the level of analysis, it's not a short video but it doesn't feel bloated because there's plenty of substance.

Great review! I felt the same after just a few games. I'm not too hot for this cold killer. However, I feel like there is some potential here, but I think we're missing some key cards that have yet to be released. But for now, getting those frostbites out is something you can't really build around for maximum impact, you kind of just let it happen as you play and it takes the edge off of attacks/thwarts just a little.

I've only had Iceman since yesterday so I've only played a couple of games with him, but from that limited experience I agree with your general analysis. I think there are a couple of builds that could work for him that you don't mention. One is the flip-heavy X-Mansion build. Frozen Solid can cancel a scheme activation from the villain, so you have some flexibility for dipping into alter-ego especially against Steady or Stalwart villains. With X-Men Instruction and Mutant Education you can recycle the cards you most want to use, with the latter helping the consistency of Cryokinetic Perception. You also have increased ability to flip down without canceling the villain's activation by directly reducing their Scheme value. That's still a marginal build, and I think X-Men with good access to confuse will still do it better, but it's an option. With all the basic cards you want, you can probably make it work in any aspect though Leadership or Justice are probably the strongest. The other is Protection but leaning on the damage reducing events rather than the ones that help your basic defense. Defiance, Jump Flip, Preemptive Strike, and Side Step will all help you reduce incoming damage, and with What Doesn't Kill Me you can heal up some of the damage that slips through and also ready yourself. Defending this way will still trigger Electrostatic Armor, and if you reduce damage to zero you can still use the perfect defense triggered upgrades. This is the build I'm going to try right now. We'll see how it works!

Iceman is a mixed bag of ice pops and they're all the not so great flavors.

I'm more positive about him but agree with your points. I think his whole dynamic would have changed if his ability was a response instead of interrupt. This would greatly change the flow of how he puts out frost bites and increase his feel of being a support hero. As is though, he's fine.

In solo, he's okay. But in multiplayer he gets better with more players. With 3 players, that's basically 3 damage prevention or 6 if he has 2 Frostbites on the enemy.

He just takes too long to get going. There are too many pieces that I felt were essential to his kit and not enough time to play them. I've only tried him in protection and aggression but so far I'm not impressed.

I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't been impressed with him so far. He does feel clunky partly because his kit is so expensive and it's hard to smooth out his economy even with adding in some help. He has some bright spots on some rounds, but it usually costs his whole hand and you've shot from both barrels so to speak with nothing left to do like Ice Wall. I feel like he may be better in multiplayer than solo. I haven't tried him in Protection yet, and I'm wondering if he works better there with the ability to ready up more in that aspect. I find that a lot of turns defending he doesn't get the ready with his Cryokinetic Perception which feels unsatisfying. I wish Ice Slide cost 1 instead of 2 as well. Probably the most satisfying moment I had with him was punching out the dragon in the Mojo Fantasy set for 12 with Arctic Attack and a Frostbite attached.

This review is spot on. I agree with all of your premises but I do disagree with some conclusions. You bump his thwart up to 2 stars. I think hes a 1 star. His event is not great compared to most other heroes. And as you said, he is punished for basic thwarting. Then overall you have him at 34, I think he's lower. Expensive cards, lower end economy, and his whole thing is more about not losing, which he doesn't even do that well compared to other heroes with the same strategy.

I don’t have him yet but having watched his gameplay. feel like his snow clones are missing the ability to apply frostbite. Something like attacks applies frostbite, if it already has frostbite take -1 consequential damage. Or frostbite response when defeated. When I initially saw iceman, I thought maybe an upgrade if you pay for an event with an ice card(exhaust?) apply frostbite to an enemy would be cool or like arachnobatics dmg per frostbite on enemy. Dunno but I agree with you his frostbite synergy isn’t there. Freeze only trigger with attacking/ready(utopia) doesn’t feel great for me. Great video.

After testing I found just about the same. My current best Iceman deck I call "Gray Ice" because it's all basics with 3 copies of What Doesn't Kill Me. His strength is against Stalwart villains. Between Ice Wall, Frozen Solid, and frostbites you can control the villain. Just make sure you have a plan to handle threat! His weakest attribute is def thwarting.

Iceman is my favourite Marvel character so I'm pretty disappointed that he sounds pretty rough. I'm really hoping that Nightcrawler (who has a similar thing with Frostbite in Bamf) includes some kind of basic card which can enable this upgrade attaching playstyle

All sounds pretty good to me. Great Dive! I ran a 3x TBE deck with about 8, 9? allies (mostly base 2 cost) with Uncanny & Team Training - pretty std X-men deck these days. But he gets the best out of multiple TBE's. Those 2x Clones at 2cost X-men really help just "spamming" the field. IMO, Clones are totally expendable - 1st, put your Frostbite where you need it (sure, typically villain), not just where they need to take 0CD! 2nd, have them attack where ever they need to deal damage. Don't care if villain has retaliate either, the 0CD attack is just "*icing* on the cake" (I'll see myself out) should it be available. They are cheap & come back as another target for a TBE & trigger Utopia, maybe even CryoPer! Sure, they can even block if you need the other allies for more thwarting. I had no issue going to 3x TBE "in Leadership" (prob 2TBE in other aspects because you only get a -1 discount on allies not -2), with those discounts on the great cheap X-men & his Ice stuff too. Totally agree, his (sole?) tactic is pretty much "I punch Villain, ready-up"...repeat - this will "eventually" have an impact/win the game. Oh, X-men friends, do your stuff - which they are so good at! Deck gets down to allies/ICE only cycling and pretty quickly - I think I jammed nearly a dozen (effective) generators in the deck. That engine REALLY starts to take off and compound on itself. I think that's where the "cost vs return" of his cards rises due to existing environment that he drops into. "Super-power", "Ice", "X-men/mutant". Then CryoPer is better than 60% ('cause cycling clones are also "Ice") so getting close but not quite "reliable". But you win that turn anyways!

I haven't managed to get my hands on it yet, as UK is always behind... but he seems very underwhelming, probably because of the hype he received when he was announced. Still, for an Omega level Mutant, you would expect more. From what I see, he will probably works best in Protection and Leadership. Leadership as it is ridiculously strong in general, so you don't even care about Iceman's kit as much, and your kit is supporting the aspect, than the other way around. Protection as you can build perfect defense with loads of ready and Taunt, but it will be a bit of a slow setup. It is definitely best suited for multiplayer. I can see Iceman played alongside Cyclops a lot and any hero with low HP pool and bad survivability to protect them, so the other hero can do what they do best and not worry they might die. Or a hero who relies heavily on their Alter-Ego actions, so the hero can flip more consistently without too much scheming from the Villain and Minions. I don't think I will enjoy it in solo games, as he is obviously not solo games oriented. Once I got my hands on Iceman, first think I will do is play him in Protection alongside Ms. Marvel Aggression, as she loves her Alter-Ego actions, and I won't have to exhaust her to keep Wiggle Room in my hand.

I'd be surprised if Iceman doesn't get a card or two before the year ends that boosts him a bit.

I'm also fairly disappointed with Iceman. I love this character, and on paper his kit sounded really cool, but in practice I haven't found it particularly fun.

He is definitely "meh" for me. His cards are too expensive. And why, oh why, does he have to lose Ice Slide when he goes to alter ego. The upgrades should be 1 cost. Ice Blast can be fun to play but it is a situational card.

All your criticism is well constructed, but I just find I enjoy playing him way more than I would expect, and find him way more powerful than this video would suggest. I think the villain control aspect is great, such that he is really consistent but maybe he will get boring due to having the same basic package in n every deck.

It’s kind of refreshing to hear a less positive review for once. And I don’t really see it as a knock on the designers (who have consistently done a phenomenal job). It’s hard to bat 1.000 when designing so many hero expansions and I doubt there are many/any heroes that are universally loved by everyone. The versatility of gameplay each hero brings is part of what makes the game so good. I’m tempted to buy the pack still just for the aspect cards. Some of the new aggression cards look like they could be good for Valkyrie but I haven’t seen many decklists using them for her on MarvelDB. Any thoughts on the value of the new aspect cards for old heroes?

At least Iceman's aggression cards made Rogue and Valkyrie a lot more fun! I'm mainly waiting for Nightcrawler at this point. Iceman was a bit disappointing and I'm also not super hyped for Jubilee. Hopefully the final hero is Magneto and he's amazing.

I don’t know why I don’t have anything against Iceman. Don’t necessarily disagree with any specific point, but I’ve found him pretty effective in each aspect🤷‍♂️

Iceman is at the top of my “this hero is fine but…” list Not my first or second choice for an entertaining session.

W

This question has nothing to do with ice man. (Loved the video though).. looking at another FFG game. Arkham and LOTR keep popping up. But then I saw a game of thrones one that had high reviews. Have you played any of these?

I don't know, you talk here like it's a problem that he is a B tier hero, do we need every new hero in A tier now? WebWarriorFanatic beat with him Ronan on Expert without rush tactic, control style, from that perspective he crush on Expert, not just Standard. I would place him probably higher on tier list (like in Nelson's list).

100% agreed, he's very disappointing, the game loop is a bit broken (in a bad way) and only a few decks are viable... :/ Too bad, I'll wait for nightcrawler :p

I will agree Iceman is not the strongest hero but I've been having a blast playing him with mutant protectors you basically want to keep a frostbitten or pinned down minion around then when you play protectors you get a fully healthy ally sometimes at a discount and if hanger bays out they're even ready on your turn too it's not super reliable but it is fun lol Also I think running unflappable in easier scenarios along with cryogenic can result in drawing two cards every villain phase which feels pretty cool 😅

I think you're a bit harsh on Bobby overall. He's not the best hero around (I would place him at or maybe just above average), but he has some incredible tools to deal with stalwart villains, which are becoming more and more common. I do agree that a lot of his decks look pretty same-y, but you can say the same thing about Domino, Cable, Angel, Psylocke, Bishop, and Magik. Not to mention all the prior X-Men, who all want the same collection of basic supports. I took him through the last three battles of GMW on standard in Protection, and he breezed through it without any real problems. I had What Doesn't Kill Me, X-Men allies, and Utopia, and there were rarely turns I didn't have a ready on board, whether it be hitting an ice card on the draw, Desperate Defense, or an ally. I had to flip down to AE exactly twice across those three and one other game with Bobby. Sometimes I even left the obligation out because I didn't need to get rid of it. Overall, he's very slow, but incredibly resilient. Maybe the most resilient hero we have outside of Kitty.