VTJeff99, I second that question! Chris, you mentioned about a half dozen manufacturers that you said still do it right. What are they? What would you say would be the sweet spot tub? You know, the one with the best quality components that is built to a high standard and is also the most affordable of the bunch? Also, I'm located in WA state. Any recommendations on where I should buy? Thanks for your vids and sharing all of your knowledge btw!

Look for the big 5 things 1. Hand rolled self-supporting fibreglass shell with Vinyl ester resin. Forget the miracle rigidizers and prop supports nothing costs more or lasts longer than a good glass shell. 2. Balboa and Waterways parts, stay away from companies that make proprietary parts to just fit their spas, it's a gimmick to cut the cost of making the spa and to lock your business in for life. 3. Full Icynene foam. this foam never hardens and gives you around R-30+ oh and its the most expensive way to do it! surprise, surprise! 4. Glued and clamped pipe on the jet plumbing, again the most expensive way to do it. 5. removable access panels so you can easily get at the spa. Master spas, Artesian, PDC, Jacuzzi, are my top 4

Chris Wheatley, thank you!! Wish you were in my area.

Mario ping me on chris@hottubuniverse.ca

Whats the issue with the Hybrid Beachcombers?

Man, I love the corner seat in that spa. It's my go to place every morning to get by bashed and battered body going.

Its a solid tub for sure, the shell rates the highest on our calculator for shell strength, the tub has more of the 3.5" and 5" high flow therapy massage jets than any other tub I have ever seen, glued and clamped plumbing, good insulation and top parts list, its hard to beat this unit right now.

happy hot tubbing :-) and get this enzyme if you want super easy to manage water, it's the best shit on the market... hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/

reach out if you ever need help. and buy this shit, its the best thing out there for hot tub water care IMHO hottubuniversity.com/spa-marvel-us/ also go to the apple store and download this aweseome app I designed... spa star apps.apple.com/us/app/spastar/id1477621382?ls=1

Hey Steve it's a great tub, but order it without the circ pump

jumping in on this thread - why order it without that pump?

Well, technically you could install a diverter yourself it is a little more complex than that. When we design a hot tub we try to match the flow rate of the pump to the mix of jets that they put on that line. Most tubs have a few of the hi flow therapy Jets one or two of the small Jets so they don't really need it over to because those jets are running it pretty close to their maximum power anyway. You can only push so much water through a hole. On this tub you'll notice it all the Jets are the super high flow therapy massage Jets and that's why we have a diverter on that seat. Those just for a ton of water so we need to be able to put an entire 6 horsepower pump on them to be able to get them up to maximum pressure. If you added the diverter to a tub that was jetted with a regular mix of jets it's actually not going to make that much difference to the performance. So yes you could but the long answer is no you shouldn't bother.

Good hand rolled shell, Balboa control and heating system, and a good Icynene insulation system. performance wise it is up there with most brands top tubs but not to the performance standard of some of the really crazy stuff like Twilight.

So they get stiff if you turn them under pressure, the idea is to turn them then put the pump on. you can replace the internals easily and clean it. shut the power off, pop the handle off, then unthread the retaining ring and the internals will simply lift out.

First time buyers want loungers, most second time buyers opt for no lounger. It's because we are dryland creatures and in dryland loungers are comfy. When you are floating they add little if anything to the comfort, they take up a ton of space and its hard to relax in them because you float.

yep You can not hammer hundreds of gallons a minute through a 90-degree turn without causing turbulence and noise... I always use the noisy part for massage and then shut it all down for chill:-)

Thanks Chris!

Exactly one thing I love about Master, from the entry level to the top all that really changes is the jetting, bells and whistles, the build quality is consistent across the lines.

Dont forget, you warranty drops from 3 years to a measly 1 year. That's a huge difference between the Clarity and Twilight

For the most part it is identical. the only major change has been the jet brand. they upgraded to a compression fit jet housing which is a little more expensive but has myuch better long term reliability, the old methoud for attaching jet housings to a shell had a lot of possible failure points and was an issue on every spa brand in the owrld from time to time, the neweer system has eleimnated these weak spots and so far in the last 4-5 years that I have been monitoring it has been much more reliable.

yes, they have a heavy hand rolled self supporting shell, ocmpression fot jets glued and clamped plumbing and balboa heating and control systems.

Unlikely an airlock, most pumps auto purge. too much to type out, email me chris@hottubuniversity.com and i can call you and talk you through it over the phone...

The pump horsepower ratings are wackadoodle everywhere in this industry. Some quote brake hp some peak, some the horsepower rating of the wet end some the motor. The reality is ignore the number for pump ratings!!! Most are using a 12 amp motor BUT!!! ignore that too... It really should be in gallons per minute, BUT!!! ignore that too because the realty is to really give you any real information about the performance it would need to be the flow rate of the whole system from where the water enters the plumbing to where it exits the jets. The truth is the power of the pump is only a part of it. the efficiency of the plumbing system has as much or more to do with it than anything and this is not only a big effector of the jet power but also the longevity of the motor, the integrity of the plumbing and the cost to produce the spa. Cheap inefficient plumbing like on all the cheap mass merchant spas, internet spas, and low cost spas cuts the cost of making the spa but cost the consumer a ton down the road in repairs, replacement, and energy consumption...

Coming soon. My wife calls it the sexiesrt tub ever made but the Twilight offers better massage for less money.......

Email me on chris@hottubuniversity.com

Hi Thomas sorry I missed this one! I like either spa marvel or aquafinesse and low chlorine and yeah the easiest way to manage your water super low chem and reliable is the stupid floating dispenser, not one has come up with anything better.

nope, :-) could be TDS level too high, I have seen this before when the water effervesces and turns all cloudy then shut the pumps off and it clears. I just change the water. basically, something in the water chem is wrong, make sure ph is balanced

@@ChrisWheatley thanks Chris.

Richard Franklin sure email me chris@hottubuniversity.com

Hey Leonardo. From build quality standpoint both these tubs are doing the right things. From a performance standpoint, The twilight has a much more expensive jet package on it. When looking at the jetting size, not quantity is what costs the money. The small jets are around $10 the mid-sized ones around $25 and the large ones around $45 (Assuming they are a good top end jet not a rising dragon Chinese one :-) So the Artesian while it has 15 extra jets it only has 4 of the big 5" therapy massage jets and 8 of the mid-sized jets the rest are the inexpensive low-flow jets so the spend around $900 on jets. Twilight has 8 of the Hi flow 34 of the mid flow and 4 of the low flow... or somewhere around $1300 Plus the twilight is a lot roomier, the massive footwell makes a big difference. All in all, they are fairly comparable spas but the twilight edges it out for performance.

Thanks Chris! I'm ordering my 8.3 master spa tomorrow.

First off on any diverter on any hot tub with high flow rate systems you turn the diverter when the pump is off or on low, otherwise, you have to replace the guts every couple of years there is just too much water going through them! Secondly, diverters are noisy... especially when not all the way one side or the other. It's the trade-off for having so many high-flow jets in a tub, it's a workhorse more them a fancy finesse.

Damn, that's a tough call... They are both great spas I suppose if money was not an issue it would be the 850. Covana has been a mixed bag, the ones for hot tubs they seem to have finely working reliably, The swim spa ones are a fucking nightmare... we had 100% failure rate on the 10 or so we installed.

Chris Wheatley thanks Chris I think we are gonna pull the trigger on the 850 tommorow.. really like the Covana cover but hard to justify the 8k price point.. Hope I chose right with masters

Hi mark Sorry for the delay i missed this. Florida is to far dude but look for a Nordic dealer...

Hey Brad. I'm in Canada :-) Not a fan of Hydropool at all... loads of old tech and gimmicks. go to www.hottubuniversity.com to the Buyer's guide and scroll down to the comments and press Ctrl f and type in hydro pool and you will see a review that sums hydropool up very nicely if I do say so :-) Drop me a line on chris@hottubuniverse.ca

Don't you run hot tub university?

I use a basic floater like this: www.amazon.ca/Floating-Chlorine-Bromine-Puck-Dispenser/dp/B007FGSQF8/ref=asc_df_B007FGSQF8/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292928942817&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5239053877619858276&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9047873&hvtargid=pla-492843624640&psc=1

ill try and get to it,

Depends on the line I think, they use treated wood on the base timbers that have not only rot and mold protection but also anti-fungal, its not just "Paint" Its a preservative that is better than a basic pressure treatment. And to be honest who cares :-) read this about hot tub bases hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-base-whats-hot-tub/ its a sidetrack issue that retailers using dodgy steel frames uses. the reality is unless yer a meathead and install your hot tub in a swap the area under a hot tub is dry, you only see rot and rust on the frame of a hot tub when its been leaking for a long time or installed in a wet area without a proper base and in those circumstances all the frames fail... You got to be wary of the sidetrack issues, guys making cheap shitty spas with dodgy insulation and crap parts will try and get you to focus on things like this to keep you away from the 5 really important issues :-) hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-buyers-guide/

Humm that is Funny those are all pretty much made by Master Spas... Don't you do marketing for them specifically?

Nope, I shill for no man, If you spend the money on the build then I am 100% on your side. Look at the real issues and take away the bullshit. 1. The most expensive way to build a shell is a hand rolled Fiberglass shell with a vinyl ester resin core. 2. The most expensive parts list is the Balboa, waterways parts. 3. The most expensive insulation package is full foam. 4. The most expensive plumbing is the Waterways fittings glued and clamped... The rest is Spin, marketing, hype and bullshit. All the brands I endorse do it the way I like it or I don't endorse, You can't buy my love brothers and sisters :-)

Typically we see this unit in the US market go for between $11k and $14k USD depending on options and availability, right now there is a pretty big jump in price for tubs available before the New Year.

Thanks man

@@ChrisWheatley I just bought the twighlight and even with the 6 hp pump going to 1 seat, berry dissatisfied with the power. The master seat is anything but. I Just can't believe that a tub that is supposed to be the flagship is useless for message. Thoughts?

@@rich8381 How a spa feels when you are in it is not relevant to how good the massage value is! The little bullet jets which are inexpensive and put out a low volume of water under high pressure “feel” like they are doing a lot because they really assault the dermal layer where all our nerve endings are. Because of this the perception is they are giving a good massage but the reality is they are not putting out enough water to penetrate into the muscle tissue, it’s an illusion… although you feel during the massage that you are really getting good deep muscle massage it does little to actually loosen up the muscles and you don’t really notice much long-term relief in terms of muscle stiffness and mobility. Conversely, I have had a number of customers who have moved from a low or mid-end massage spa into a real hi-end therapy spa using a huge amount of the Hi-flow low-pressure massage jets and their initial reaction is that the jets don’t “Hit ” as hard and they don’t feel like they are getting much massage benefit. But with regular use they feel much better with increased mobility and less muscle tension. The reason is this; The Big Hi-Flow jets flow a massive amount of water but at a lower pressure so it moves the whole muscle instead of just affecting the dermal layer. The result is while they do not feel like they are doing as much work they are actually doing much more for the deep muscle. Regular use of a good therapy spa will make massive long-term difference to how you feel, your mobility levels and your muscle tension.

@@ChrisWheatley Thanks for your prompt response. The seat to the left of the master seat has better flow and feels better then it while others seats are running. Do you have anything literature wise that would support this scientifically regarding massage wise. Forgive me for my ignorance, but that response sounds like an excuse for lack of power. That's like a massage therapist saying for a deep tissue massage, to the contrary of modern belief, you actually want to be gentler. The hip jets in the master seat can barely be felt at all.

For a mass merchant spa it is likely the best one out there but bang for the buck a good local warehouse direct guy can likely do better. The shell is a good hand rolled fibreglass acrylic shell and they use Balboa control and heating systems and clamp the plumbing lines which is great. The jetting is a less expensive click in system, and the insulation is really inexpensive and not very effective, it relies on radiant reflective foils and these systems are really not effective at containing heat in a system, in fact, the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation rated it as one of the worst insulators they ever tested and most of the northern US states issued warnings against this technology back in the 80's when it was being peddled to the housing industry. Some of the shells are also very shallow. I really think that if you want a hot tub in that price range you are better to buy a roto mould, (getaway hot tubs or Nordic spas) for an acrylic shell spa you need to spend a bit more money to get something really built well, the reality is to sell an acrylic spa at this price you need to cut too many corners like the insulation, depth, and components making it a product I would not really recommend...

Chris Wheatley thank you for taking the time and giving such a detailed answer! Home Depot was having a Sales Event yesterday and I was tempted, but decided to wait for your answer. I'm in the north part of the greater Orlando, FL area. Thanks so much!

Bullfrogs, like most bands, are a bit of good a bit of bad and a bit of ugly. Those goofy pods really limit the area where the jetting can go. and are so expensive to replace $400-$700 that according to the dealers I have talked to very few people ever replace them. The whole premise is kind of whack, on any hot tub with good high flow Jetting you can change the Jets and customize a chair for $20 $40 a jet and you have more options because each jet can be swapped and it can be done simply and easily. And they are still haunted by the horror stories of the bacteria build up behind the pods in their earlier models, this caused them to have to tap into the jet pressure to flow a lot of water through the back of the seat to keep the area sanitized which takes a lot fo the water flow away from the jetting. This has also compressed the plumbing into a small area and you will notice on the back of the pod's lots of loops and elbows to get the p[lumbing to fit in the small area, this is inefficient as hell. The shell is an ABS plastic backed acrylic which is not my preferred construction. Hailed as the new way in the 80’s these Shells have been abandoned by most of the industry. These types of shells usually can’t even hold their own weight with water and people over time so they need to use pedestals and props to support it just to stop it from falling apart. The insulation is good, and the components are good, and the plumbing is good but that pitch about the reduced amount of pipe increasing the flow rate is questionable science. they are inferring that the water is flowing a shorter route but 90% of the pipe is in parallel so the actual distance between the pump and the Jet is similar to an efficiently plumbed spa.

Chris Wheatley looks like I will do the Marquis spa epic with micro silk

Hi Twilight series or Phelps is the best for foot jets, but really they are anomalies, most tubs don't have that kind of foot jet system where you can divert a whole pump to the master blaster foot jets. The HL is a great tub, but it's not going to have the same foot jets...

Thanks so much for your prompt reply Chris! I don't think the dealer has the Twilight series - just the Phelps and Evolution series'. We tried an Arctic Spas tub the other day that had a powerful jet but there were too many other things about it I wasn't keen on. This hot tub buying thing is turning out to be way more difficult than I thought it would be, lol!

Yeah, not a big fan of the Arctic, one of those brands that spend more on spin, Hype and Marketing than they do on the hot tub :-) Although there is a magic fairy that lives in the big air cavity where the insulation goes that makes Free Heat!!! The master guys could order you one in...

Lol!!! That's hilarious! The guy told me that foam was a terrible idea because inevitably "every hot tubs leaks eventually" and the foam sucks it all up and you can't fix it!! It's a minefield knowing what to believe!!! We're going up to the dealer later this week so I'll inquire about the Twilight models. Are they a lot more expensive that the HL models?

a bit yeah but if you are like me and really want therapy massage you need to spend a tad more, the regular folks out there are more than happy with a healthy living but us broken people need special care :-) go to hot tub University for even more information

Yeah, its good advice but really water pumps should not be rated in Hp anyway... it should be in gallons per minute of the completed system to take into account the efficiency of the plumbing and the entire system... and yer math is wack... 6 hp at 230v assuming 90% efficiency would be around 22amps but it would still tell you nothing more than the Hp of the electrical motor. I have seen 16 amp systems with shit performance because the plumbing sucks like 90-degree angles in front of the pump etc. Then I have seen 12 amp systems that would blow them away because they run clean plumbing lines, oversized section lines, and sweep fittings... There is a lot more to it than just the pump rating.

It's brake. There are no full 6hp pumps in tubs. Always 6/3. 4/2, or 3/1.5

Wrong. Behind the foil is insulation :-) it has always been that way,

I Didn't mean to imply you were wrong :-) more the dealer was :-) they had an issue years back with overheating pumps but it was when the pumps were all around the tub, now that they are all on one side they haven't had that issue for years.

Rebecca Garland I've found them to be consistent across all the lines from a build quality standpoint.

try these guys East Coast Spas Status: HTU All-Star Dealers # 1 215-420-7106 www.eastcoastspas.com/ I know the Henry boys well, they run a good operation and take great care of customers. When we endorse a retailer as an All-Star it means we actually meet and go over the people and the business to ensure a good level of care John sales manager Owner Dan Henry Email : dhenry@eastcoastspas.com dhenry1201@gmail.com

Chris Wheatley just ordered my Twilight 8.2 from East Coast Spas - hoping to have it ready to use by end of month! Thanks for the guidance!

I went through the whole Cal Spa website trying to find something called American Spa. I couldn't find one. There's a company called American Whirlpool I may be confusing that? I toured the Cal Spa Factory in January of this year hoping to bring them on board as one of our preferred Brands. My criteria simple you need to be doing that at least the top four things to make my list. 1. You need to be doing a hand-rolled self-supporting shell. This means you need to be applying layers of glass with a vinyl Ester resin core and enough layers hand-rolled that the shell is self-supporting when it's finished. This is the one point that they failed on because it wasn't a self-supported shell they were using a prop supported shell, and the "steel Angle iron turned out to be a flimsy thin metal around the same structure of the drywall corners... this was a total gimmick there was no way this was making any appreciable difference in the overall strength of the shell 2. I want to see a Balboa Heating and control system in there and I don't want to see any proprietary parts. On some of their lines were they using that Balboa system but on some of their lines of using a waterways Heating and control system. 3. The next thing is I want the plumbing lines glued and clamped and they passed on this one. 4. The final thing is I want a full foam insulation system. Their standard Installation System is a reflective system and I'm absolutely against these, although they do have an option for a full phone system. All in all, it was better than most of the stuff in the market but not quite good enough to make my Tier 1 list

Chris Wheatley I appreciate your response. I respect your in depth knowledge and expertise with hot tubs. I was told that Cal Spas makes American Spas however I too haven’t found much to support this. American Spas does have a factory tour video on their website that illustrates the jet hoses are primed, glued and steel clamped. They also take great pride in their seven layered shells. Not too sure if they use Balboa control panels or what type of heating element is used. If you could research some on American Spas brand and let me know what you find out that would be great. Thanks Chris!

Funnily enough, I just finished looking through the spa. I like that they use a vinyl ester resin on the shell and that they hand roll but in the picture you can see that they are putting props and supports under the shell, most times this means that the shell is simply not thick enough to self-support, and these pieces of wood are used to give it strength, I prefer more glass so that the shell is self-supporting. I like that they glue and clamp the plumbing and that they use Balboa heating and control systems but mylar reflective insulation is a joke, in the 80's this stuff was run out of the building industry with most of the northern US states and the Canadian mortgage housing authority issuing formal government warnings about its usage, they also use two inches of batton type insulation code for a house would be 6" minimum, they also use "high density" foam which means its a cheap poly based foam and that means it's going to harden like a rock over time and make leak detection really messy. the only way you can cover the plumbing is if you goto to something like Icynene foam, really expensive but it allows access to plumbing in the event of a leak. I also really do not like the foot domes, these things were all the rage 20 years ago and everyone took them out for two reasons. First, it causes a weakness in the floor both from a structural standpoint and especially from an insulation standpoint!!! Underneath the floor of a hot tub is very little room so we’ve only got a couple of inches of insulation under there, with a floor dome you need to put a fitting in the floor and then put a pipe running under the floor. There is no insulation now where that pipes running which means you are flowing all that hot water right across the cold ground and bleeding tons of heat through conduction Most manufacturers have gotten away from putting any plumbing under the floor of the tub for that reason, also it’s the number one source of leaks because everyone is always stepping on the floor suction and it gets loose and starts to leak. and finally its a tripping hazard, I remember having 0ne of these and it drove me nuts, the number of people myself included who would trip and fall getting around the tub was crazy and those little justs are not going to do anything for foot massage anyway, you need a big monster jet with the ability to divert a whole pump to them to tackle tough things like your feet. All in all better than average but not good enough for my tier one recommendation from what I can see. Performance wise most of the spas are filled with cheap low flow jets and very few of the high flow expensive therapy massage jets. post on here and ill look around and see what option I can find for you. www.hottubuniversity.com/buyers-assistance/

Chris Wheatley your knowledge is appreciated! My wife already ordered the American Spas AM-756B-P from Home Depot for $4999. They’re going to place this 800 pound tub in my driveway and I will have to take it 200 feet to the back of my home. All in all it doesn’t seem like her choice was a bad investment. Hit a home run on a few of the major guidelines and struck out on a couple. After what I was able learn about it and especially after your judgment, I think we will be quite pleased with our tub for years to come! Thanks again Chris

I agree with the dealer. circ pumps are not a great option I never sell them and really steer people away from them www.hottubuniversity.com/24-hr-circulation-pumps/

Why do you feel a circ pump is such a bad idea..

The Pitch is that they are small efficient pumps that clean your water 24 hrs. a day and are quiet and efficient to run. It’s usually about a $500 upgrade and in my opinion, they are not as good a the alternative which is a high flow circ system. Although they use a small amount of power they run 24hrs a day whereas the high flow pump only has to run about 4 hrs a day to clean the same amount of water both systems use similar amount a power per day. They wear out more quickly because they run all the time. The tiny energy savings against the increased cost of replacement parts make them more expensive over the long run. They can only filter so much water a day. if you have a heavy bather load or a party or busy weekend of hot tubbing it can take them a while to recover whereas with a high flow system you can change how many hours the pump runs! So after a party, you can throw it on 24 hr mode (or any other amount) and it will filter up to 6 times more water than a circ pump can over the 24hr period. Circ pumps are also low flow and this means you need to be very regimented with filter cleaning, if the filter gets too dirty they go into flow error easily, the hi flow systems don’t unless you are truly negligent. The new anti vibration mounting systems make the good hi flow 2-speed pumps almost as quiet as the Hush pumps, there is very little difference. I’m not a fan of these systems I think they are sold to add margin into a deal or added value perception. It’s all marketing spin.

I like a 2 big pump system and no circ pump... see these two articles www.hottubuniversity.com/24-hr-circulation-pumps/ and www.hottubuniversity.com/small-pumps-large-pumps/

The negative reviews you see for Master are not about the spa they are about the backup specifically related to the Expo events. Some dealers do expos where they sell spas in a big sale hundreds of miles away from the nearest dealer, if they don't have a good support network it can be an issue.. I always say you are better with a mid grade spa and a great dealer than a great spa with no dealer :-) Understand that I am in a unique position... I have been in hot tubs for almost 30 years, I manufactured for over a decade and supplied Costco, and some of the biggest mass merchants in the world, most people selling spas are just regurgitating a pitch. So I choose the brand I sell because of the information I have not the other way around :-) I sell Master because its one of the best built spas out there. It hit what i feel are the four critical things... 1, Name brand North American parts like Balboa and Waterway, Canadian Icynene full foam insulation systems, Hand rolled self supporting hulls, and glued and clamped joints on the plumbing... critical... Its why I would never sell Hot springs :-) go to www.hottubuniversity.com

Chris, would you buy a hot tub from Costco? The brands they carry in my area costco are Evolution Spas, Aquaterra, and Divine. Are any of these brands worth buying?

Reviews, unless they are substantiated, are a waste of time. most of the 5 star and the 1 star are industry people and bloggers, BBB, consumers digest (you can't advertise or give them money in any way) or something tied to the serial number is the only thing I would trust... Master is big, and because they go into markets and sell tonnes of spas at the expo events local dealers hate them. I do not work for them, I manufactured for a decade and have been selling and fixing spas for 30 years. I chose the brands I like not because I work for them but because I know the industry inside and out. I have a real issue with Hot Springs and Sundance mainly for the proprietary parts list kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bbVmrNF_ur3VfWw.html . Frankly master spends more money on building the spa while lots of other spend more money marketing the spin and hype kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m7BlZsef0MjWZWg.html ... You don't have to buy master just make sure you address the 5 big issues... Top name brand parts (Balboa, Waterways), Full foam insulation, Glued and clamped joints, Hand rolled self-supporting shells, and easy access removable sides… That will take the field form 200 to about a dozen...

did you not see the video about the Costco evolution spa? Mass merchants are a mess on these specialty products... stay away. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rLygqLepz77VYqM.html

Master Spas does shows without proper infrastructure aka service techs and then don't service the tubs. That is truly why they have bad reviews. Chris Works for Master and will defend them to the end even tho their warranties suck and they sell on hype and miss-leading the customer by having these shows marketed by Chris Wheatley himself

that spa I run about .5 ppm chlorine.. about drinking water levels, but that has the UV system, the eco pure filter and the ozone system...

@@ChrisWheatley I thought you didn’t recommend the added water sanitation upgrades like UV, Ozone, salt water etc.? I thought you only recommend spa marvel/aqua finesse and a small amount of chemical use to purify water?

Brutal, I don't know who the retailer is in the uk but you could try the manufactiurer head office they might be able to put you in touch with someone out there.

Chris Wheatley hi Chris didn’t expect a reply so thank you for that👍 I have found one company in uk but they look a bit sloppy and do not service my area. It’s a shame as I took on board what you were saying and it made sense and gave me confidence to go for it. It’s a big purchase and needs to be right, and you are correct the big companies are just marketing machines. I will look out for more of your reviews, keep up the good work👍

Dude click the buyer's assistance link here and my team will look through your area and find good options we will help 4000 people spending $30 million dollars make good buying decisions and help with any questions and information you need after you buy. www.hottubuniversity.com/buyers-assistance/

Hi Chris, i think they have pulled out of UK, so looking at Coast infinity edge spa, have you come across them or do you have an alternative YOU could recommend. Appreciate your help :)

hi mate it is branded in a different name in the uk and the hot tub superstore in blackpool supply them i have just bought an evolution 8 bench but all there tubs are imported from usa master spas hope that helps

Great spa. I've had one over 20yrs. Really an industry leader. Moto massage is just amazing.

Hey ady Not sure about the seized jets, that's a weird one, as for the waterfall that's pretty normal for any tub and not a concern

@@ChrisWheatley I feel the water falls should be plumbed on pump 1, so when on heating mode you can relax to the soothing water sounds. Very silly mistake.

Yes and no... if you are on a budget the mass merchant shit is not the way to go. You want to stay away from stories and any other things that add cost but little value. Go to a solid built rotationally molded spa with the right parts, these things will last, be efficient and give you what you want... there are 2 or 3 good brands out there. www.getawayhottubs.com My top pick because the parts are right the plumbing is clamped and glued and the insulation is Icynene full foam. www.nordic spas.com My number 2, same spas and parts but insulation is not quite as good.

That's great, it's pretty rare for a motor out of the box but the funny thing is on any spa if you have serve it is usually in the first three months for a bad part. I am a Master guy, but I don't say what I say because of the brand I carry, I carry the brand I carry because of the 30 years of manufacturing, selling and servicing hot tubs... Everyone knows how to regurgitate the pitch from a manufacturer but few people really understand the many nuances that make a really great sustainable Hot Tub.

It changes from brand to brand ask your retailer or google the brand of hot tub with "how to unlock the control panel"

The keypad?

No to Salt water tubs! Pools yes..

I used to be in retail but I do not sell spas anymore, my advice site www.hottubuniversity.com sees around a million views a year and my private buyers service will purchase around 2000 hot tubs this year for people accross North America it is 100% buyer funded, i do not take comissions, kickbacks or referal fees for my private buyers service so it frees me up to just advise and negotiate 100% on the customers requirements. Hell I even bought a few watkins products for customers!

Hey Alex Thanks for the feedback. The pump ratings are a shit show industry wide. Almost everyone quotes these goofy numbers, and when I quote any brand I use the pump hp supplied buy the manufacturer because it's what 90% of the industry uses. But yer wrong they are not even BHP most times they are just the rating of the pump head and dont even take into account the motor:) I've seen guys driving 6hp pumps with 8 amp motors lmfao. The reality pumps should never be rated in horse power it's more appropriate to just look at the amperage draw of the motor. That's a real indication of the actual power produced. For rough estimate 1hp equals about 3.25 amps (at 240v) I wish everyone would just go by the simple and real data of the rating plate on the motor... Most spas are using a 12-16 amp motor. There is no good answer if you quote the rms hp then you look bad against the 90% of the guys who quote bhp or pump head size... it's a no win situation Ball bearing movement is not a bad thing :) it's what everything in your world that spins uses... you can get away with spindles in a water environment and I think that brand switched to CMP last year and now uses a spundle roto jet but frankly it's not a real issue either way.

I agree that most manufacturers are trying to attract clients with high hp numbers. The client really wants high pressure and theres a number of things like pump power, plumbing as well as jet count vs pump pressure that effect the overall massage strength. Regarding the jets, if we are discussing highest quality and best massage, what do you have to say about bearing free jets like Sundance, Jacuzzi or hot springs? Don’t bearing free jets last longer? I know master is a good spa but you mentioned it being the best spa on the market. They have a higher electrical consumption based on the company website when compared to some of 3 brands i mentioned earlier, all companies mentioned are offering uv and ozone systems along with mineral sticks.. how does master spa compare to some of these brands in your opinion?

Bearing free jets are ok, they are cheaper to make and I argued against them for a long time because they are not as efficient but in a fluid environment it's not that bad, but Like I said that brand changed to the bearing free jets a year ago as well. The problem I have with the three brands you mentioned are many, IMHO they are mid grade spas wrapped in great marketing, the shells in most cases are cheaply made thin shells supported by High-density foam which makes finding and repairing leaks a nightmare, and instead of using good readily available competitively priced OEM parts they use proprietary lesser quality parts that eliminate any competition and end up not only having a higher failure rate but lock the customer into having to buy the overpriced part from them because there is no other source... brilliant profit center for the manufacturer but never a good thing for the end user... read this: hottubuniversity.com/hot-tub-parts-game-affects-long-term-satisfaction/ As for energy testing its a poorly done system, the last time I looked at the CEC test criteria they were testing these tubs at 60f! in default mode! this is idiocy... Hot tub efficiency is all about heat loss the minor amount burned up to filter the water is negligible yet we all know that heat loss is directly proportional to the difference in temperature so testing at these warm temps really mostly took into account the filtration cycle energy draws... CEC is used to testing appliances they messed this up :-) all you need to do to get a good rating and fool them was run a tiny little shitty circ pump system and whammo you got a top energy rating :-) Oh hey!!! guess what???? all three of those tubs in the fancy wrapping use circ pumps standard... circ pumps suck... hottubuniversity.com/24-hr-circulation-pumps/ Ozone is a joke on all hot tubs a real ozone system could handle virtually all the load of an average spa but would need a dehumidified source air, primary, secondary, and at least tertiary high-efficiency absorption tanks, ozone off gas destruct systems and would cost half the price of a hot tub :-) in their current form they do very little for a year than virtually nothing after that :-) and yes there are loads of great aftermarket and onboard ion systems. Frankly, the Ion system is a decent tech but I never endorse buying any of the miracle chem reduction systems keep the standard stuff and use an aftermarket enzyme or Mineral systems they are the best tech on the market right now IMHO

@@ChrisWheatley dude its pretty funny still. Regardless on how you try and defend yourself

Hi Pass. So guys selling cheap insulation systems go on about how hard it is to find leaks, it's the pitch to dupe people into thinking its ok to have no insulation in the tub. Back in the day when we used Polly based foam this was a real issue but since the advent of better foams that do not harden or impede access to the plumbing it's not an issue but it is still part of the fear-mongering pitch that these cheap poorly insulated spas use, so my point was all about the access to plumbing "if" you had a leak... further in I show you that these guys actually hand clamp every plumbing line so you likely won't get a leak... I do not work for any of these companies and endorse several brands that build sustainable products including 2 brands I compete against in my local market... If I was so easily bought obviously I would never support brands I have to fight against... lol It's a messy world man, but I am what I am.. a simple guy that knows a lot about hot tubs and just tells it like it is.

Chris, Great reply and thanks a lot from over the pond mate. Can you give me some tips for buying over here? I'll see if masters have an EU offices. I don't mind the extra cost for a better product and Jacuzzi seem to charge for a name that WAS good. Todays world is profit profit profit and over the customer. You seem to know a lot and thx again for your time.

Hi dude sorry for the delay in responding, got to the buyer's assistance page on hot tub university ill look around the area and find options for you. www.hottubuniversity.com/buyers-assistance/

I haven't sat in one of these Spa jet tubs in years. I know according to easing body parts that have been over temperatured or slightly swelled. The jet spas helps the therapy acrobats.. i noticed this model you can just use a regular socket from the wall vs other models this size that powers 9300watts and hold 157 jets in 2300L*2100mm-W* 730/1100h

What awesome feedback! Me and the world thank you for your words of wisdom :-)