Matching Your Film to Your Developer Part 2 - Perfecting Negative Highlight Detail!

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3 жыл бұрын

In part 2 of our Matching Film to Developer we look at perfecting highlight detail. Now we have correctly exposed our film (see last weeks video) we need to protect our highlights. Through this test we can ascertain the perfect development time.
The difference in your negatives will really show. With this Pt. 2 you will be hitting the negative sweet spot.
Thank you to all my followers.
John
pictorialplanet.com

Пікірлер: 104

@ebreevephoto 3 ай бұрын

So glad to have found this channel. I have been hunting for a way to dial it all in. These videos will get me on my way.

@ALefort-de9gu Ай бұрын

Simple, concise and a must to go further...Thank you!

@NasserAlhameli Жыл бұрын

One of a kind real photography channel.. ❤

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@garywebb5912 15 күн бұрын

This series is a revelation for me, thank you so much. Love your channel!!

@PictorialPlanet 15 күн бұрын

Cheers, Gary!

@davyboyo 2 жыл бұрын

It's really great that you are willing to share your wealth of knowledge, many film channels are seriously lacking in real, practical information on how to get the most out of the photographic artform. Thanks so much!!!!

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Dav!

@MrPetermc199 2 жыл бұрын

Most "photgraphers" are KZfaqrs, with little practical knowledge.

@juanboldizsar 10 ай бұрын

Thanks so much for this. I only wish I had come across it sooner!!

@PictorialPlanet 10 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@thevalleyofdisappointment 2 жыл бұрын

Great content again, hard to find info on this subject. I will watch and rewatch this and part 1 until this finds its way in to my brain!

@ron5935 2 жыл бұрын

Great ideas. For 30 + years now I use a grey scale. Zone 1 needs to be separated from 0 and zone 9 needs to be separated from 10 in the same print, no burn or dodge.

@jeffparkes314 2 жыл бұрын

Many thanks, far easier to understand than in books. Thanks for passing on your knowledge.

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment Jeff.

@charlygielen8843 2 жыл бұрын

thank you.....

@hughsydney2620 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, thank you for sharing.

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Cheers, Hugh!

@msam927 Жыл бұрын

Hace tiempo que buscaba esto. Será de gran ayuda. Muchas gracias.

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Cheers

@steveweston5902 3 жыл бұрын

Nice one John. Would this method still work with stand / Semi-stand developing? Not that I will be using this method again! I have tried it with 35mm in both Rodinal and Pyrocat HD and had streaking from sprocket holes (bromide drag?) I think I will stick with Pyrocat but try normal agitation.

@PictorialPlanet 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Steve. This method does not work well with stand and semi-stand developing. There’s too much compensation taking place to be this accurate with developing time. It also doesn’t work for two bath developing for the same reason. No, the best way to really control the negative development and gain a full tonal range is to develop like this. It can be achieved with any normal dilutions quite satisfactorily and with pyro developers developed normally.

@LeniFromMemento 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the videos! How did you mesure exposure on bike photo....and how you mesure all your pictures?

@PictorialPlanet 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the question. I exposed the bike photo by placing the white wall in zone 8 (measurement then open up 3 stops) because I didn't want it blown out - but this was an unusual situation. Usually, for my landscape photographs, I place the shadows in zone 3, then measure the highlights I want with detail, and let my development time take care of those highlights.

@adrienpavillard9512 2 жыл бұрын

Hello John. Thanks for your videos and sharing your precious knowledge. You often answer questions that other videos tend to leave unanswered. They are straight to the point, throrough but very clear. I've got a question for you : I'm using hp5+ pushed to 800. How could I use yhis procedure to figure out the best developing time ? Cheers !

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Adrien, Assuming HP5+, as soon as you push the film you leave the 'normal' development space. Therefore, I would suggest using a developer that is designed to give you an ISO of 800 such as Crawley's FX11. FX11 should give you your 800 ISO. ID68 might give you 640 ISO. Both will give you better results than pushing in regular developer. Using FX11 and setting 800 ISO on your meter, do both the ISO test video and this development time test.

@adrienpavillard9512 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you very much John. Will definitely try FX11 !

@user-wz3ry6zl3b 3 жыл бұрын

Do you recommend to rate the film diffrent asa (for overexposure) and then meter-expose in camera- and adjust when developing.of course im talking about high contrast scene for colour and bw

@PictorialPlanet- 3 жыл бұрын

Please see Pt 1

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

I expose for my personal iso (see Matching Your Film to Your Developer" but develop for the highlights.

@azadpeymaparham 2 жыл бұрын

Hi John, another great and informative video - thank you for that. I have a question (which is a bit silly but I still ask), at the end of your video (at 7' mark), you mentioned that you choose 5' 45" development time to achieve adequate highlights in your negative. Does an extra 15" make enough noticeable difference in the development of the negative? If so, how do you time your development technique so that you can replace the chemicals (dump the developer and poor the stop) and stay within your chosen development time? Do you dump the developer slightly earlier, say 10" earlier, and fill the tank with the stop bath on the dot?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Good morning PA! Thanks for your question. In the video I show how much difference there is between development of 5:30 and 6:00 minutes and, as you can see, it's quite a lot. 5:30 was too grey and 6:00 too white so I plumbed for 5:45 so yes, 15 seconds can make a big difference, especially at short dev times like 5 or 6 minutes. To answer your second question. I dump the developer out 15 seconds before the end of the time and fill the tank with stop right at 5:45. A Paterson Universal tank helps here because it empties and fills very quickly.

@azadpeymaparham 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet Thanks John for the explanation. I watched the video again on a better monitor and I could see the differences this time - makes sense.

@alexander.starbuck Жыл бұрын

John, just to clarify a bit, if you don't mind... Did I understand correctly: you expose 8 different films, since we are using roll film instead of sheet film and say we use half stops. You develop the films. You then use these 8 negatives from 8 different films to expose 8 pieces of paper, EACH exposed for 6x3 seconds, using the appropriate negative (1 negative -> 1 piece of paper)? And see which one differs from the pure white paper base? Cheers!

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

No, it's one film. Watch my more recent FX55 series where I run the tests again using half stops. That might clear up any confusion.

@311djr 4 ай бұрын

Hello, I've just started watching your series and think it is great, showing the proper way to do everything. Most of it is over my head but I am trying to understand more of it. I loved the video about obtaining ISO by matching your film to your developer. I have a couple of questions. I have several cameras which I enjoy shooting, both 35mm and medium format. 1) Is the ISO film/developer match the same for any camera I use? 2) And the same for any lens on that camera? Also, I was gifted an older JOBO ATL-1000 rotary processor which I dearly love. 3) How does a rotary processor effect these development times? Again, thanks for the videos. I really enjoy and learn something from each one.

@PictorialPlanet 4 ай бұрын

1. Yes, assuming their shutters are ok and you must use a separate meter and not a camera built in one. 2. Yes, close enough not to worry. 3. Rotary processing is fine but your times will be shorter.

@311djr 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for your quick reply. So, if I use a Spot Meter (which I believe to be accurate) and a Gray Card, that will put me into Zone 5? And for rotary processing, maybe start at 40% less than recommended and work from there? Thank you again. This is exciting.

@PictorialPlanet 4 ай бұрын

@311djr sounds good but maybe 30% less for rotary for starters.

@311djr 4 ай бұрын

Thank you🙂

@dennisoconnor4949 2 жыл бұрын

Hello again John. What should the density reading for this correct zone 9 negative be?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Dennis. Like I described before, I don't recommend a densitometer for this test. I always do these tests by eye so I get true idea of what my paper is reacting to.

@szymonkomarnicki5649 2 жыл бұрын

Dear John, I was just wondering what to do when we don't know what's the base development time for film "A" with developer "B"? For example: i really like the results you get with FX-55 and I would like to try it with Fomapan 100 or Agfa Aviphot 200. But there is no development time for these two films in FX-55 on the internet. What to do? Where should I start if I want to match these films with fx-55?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Szymon! I've had this same problem in the past many times. My strategy has always been to try D76 time and adjust from there.

@szymonkomarnicki5649 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet Thank you John, that's a good advice!

@lowe_h_seger 11 ай бұрын

I keep looking at this two videos to get my head around "matching my film to my dev”. After seeing the first video, I initially imagined that you keep the exact same "recipe" where you left off. Followed by an alteration of the developing time only (not changing the developer to ASA 80). Can you please expand on why the 80 ASA is used for the developer rather than the one you used in previous video, I believe it was 125 ASA. We now know that the true ASA is 80 but if the developer "recipe" is altered and we develop it differently than in the previous video, wouldn't that effect the shadows as well as the highlight? Many thanks in advance, Lowe H Seger

@PictorialPlanet 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment, Lowe. So, when I try to ascertain the true iso of the film with a particular developer I have to start somewhere so I start at the manufacturers iso, in this case 125. I use zone 1 to test for this and that's important to remember. Now I find the true iso, in this case 80. Now I look for the development time to achieve zone 9 when the film is at its real iso of 80. Here's the important bit for your answer. Because I used zone 1 to test the film speed I know that won't move. It's so low, so close to zone 0 that it's pretty much locked in place and doesn't move with development time changes. If I'd used zone 3 to find the film speed I'd be in trouble because the zone would change a little (as when we pull or push a film to increase contrast or reduce contrast) but zone 1 is too low to change in any appreciable way. Hope this helps.

@lowe_h_seger 11 ай бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet Super clear, thank you!!

@jogrev 2 жыл бұрын

Hi John, I agree with @Dav Gats. It is super valuable and beautiful what you do by sharing your knowledge without any misgivings. I am returning to the laboratory and I want to do it in the most methodical way possible. So your information comes in the most unexpected way but at the right time, because I am about to buy some material in the USA. I live in Venezuela. I would like to formulate a concern, this test that you do, you have to do it with each objective since they do not have the same characteristics? Another concern: since I cannot prepare the chemicals from the formulas you provide, I must buy what is already ready to prepare (for now). What is your opinion of PMK Pyro developer from Photographers' Formulary powder? It is safer to ship. I have researched and it has excellent review. Please, I would like to know your opinion. Thanks John. A hug. GOD keep blessing you!!!

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Jose! You only need to test the developer once with a particular film. Once you are satisfied with your results you can use it with that film. PMK is a very good developer. I recommend it!

@jogrev 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, John!!!

@ArtControlChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Hi there! Thank you so much for this video. Wouldn't this technique start to break down when you lets say, have a roll of film with two vastly different scene's varying in their constrast (overcast vs bright sun)?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

This is a great question Brunhilde! Negative highlight control is essential to "dialling in" your development time. Once you know how long to develop your film for (to get the high zones in the right place) you better know how to increase contrast (N+) or decrease contrast (N-) for the scene you are photographing. Many photographers guestimate N+ and N - development times and tweak the resulting negatives in post or using paper grading but when you want the best negatives I recommend dialling in your personal ISO and your personal development time.

@ArtControlChannel 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet thank you so much again! Would you say this technique works better in practice for sheet film, than lets say roll films?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

I use this technique for film from 35mm to roll film. The trick with 35mm is to buy in bulk and just fill cassettes with 5-10 negative lengths. Then use these short films to photograph your subject deciding then how you will develop the film (N+, normal, or N-). If you're not sure fire off two short films and adjust development. For 120 roll film I tend to develop for my primary photographs and let any others just go with the flow!

@ArtControlChannel 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet Exactly, main shots for the dev. thanks so much :)

@TristanColgate Ай бұрын

If you are being a bit more casual with your exposures (e.g. just shooting holiday snapshots, with guess metering), and have your development time tuned this precisely, I guess there is a danger that you lose some potential highlist details in shots you may have over exposed? (I know the answer here is "don't over expose").

@PictorialPlanet Ай бұрын

If you've dialled in your development time you are at least giving yourself the best possible chance of making quality negatives.

@dominiqueguillemard9232 Жыл бұрын

Thank you John, I am trying to determine the exact ISO of Adox CHS100II film with D-23 developer. I apply the method described in the 2 videos of February 24 and March 2, 2021. Currently, the D23 I use, has developed the equivalent of 4 films and has been regenerated once with the D23 replenisher. At this point, can I consider the development time obtained to be reliable, or should I consider redoing the procedure after a few more films. Thanks so much!

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Hello Dominique! I would wait a few more films. I would think ten would be a better number.

@zabtej1645 Жыл бұрын

Dear John, it it necessary to test every paper also if I happen to use different papers?

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Different papers will have different exposure curves but I typically just test the one I use most.

@MrPetermc199 2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. Maybe a stupid question: On what part of the photo of the bicycle did You measure the exposure, on the darkest part of the bicycle? Or did You just use the average metering of the camera, since You already adjusted for the true ISO speed of the film?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

This is a very good question. There are times when we are faced with such a problem as this white wall. So for this photograph I actually wanted to make sure the wall was not blown out. I measured the wall and placed it in zone 8 (took the metered measurement of the sunlit wall and opened up 3 stop). I knew the bike would fall into the right zones. I think the strategy worked well. What do you think, CCW?

@MrPetermc199 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet I agree it looks beautiful and sort of "cream like" textured. Thanks for the reply.

@MrPetermc199 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet I actuallly have a follow up question concerning the true film speed: In case I wanted to use flash and knowing that the true film speed of FP4 in this case is 80 ISO. Would I then set the ISO on my flash to 80 ISO as well??

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Yes CCW, quite right. Set the ISO to 80. That's the ISO (sensitivity) of the film with that developer regardless of light source.

@thevalleyofdisappointment 2 жыл бұрын

If I have decided that 400 is the iso I want to set my camera to as this gives me the most flexibility in the areas I want to shoot (and I’m willing to perhaps sacrifice a percentage of shadow quality for shooting convenience) is it still worthwhile testing the max black enlarger tine with a blank neg then doing tests to find the best developing time for my highlights? Thanks and regards!

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Well, you're not using the true speed of the film so yes you're not getting accurate shadows. In fact you're not getting a correct meter reading either. You won't be able to get the correct development time because you don't have the right film iso, sorry :(

@thevalleyofdisappointment 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet haha, I appreciate the reply. I wanted to keep things simple with hp5 at an iso good for both outdoors plus indoors too with a fast lens. I just assumed i'd end up at 250-320 and it'd be no good for indoor use. Then thought of how people routinely sacrifice their shadows by pushing to 800-1600 anyway

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

I know, can't really understand why they do that? But, each to his own.

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

You could use a speed enhancing developer like ID68 (see D76 type developer videos). ID68 will give you box speed plus 2/3 stop ish without sacrificing shadows. Just an idea.

@thevalleyofdisappointment 2 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet it used to be my default. Hp5 or delta 400 pushed to 1600 in dd-x but I've since learned to appreciate lower contrast neg for more options when printing plus dd-x is expensive. I like d-76 as its cheap and gives good results at normal speeds but no good for pushing

@eusebiorodriguez4492 Жыл бұрын

Hey John! Just to clarify, does determining your personal iso mean that you can expose images at zone 5 and your shadows will be okay? Or do you still need to meter at zone 5 and then open up 2 stops to bring the shadows to zone 3? Hope that makes sense. Thank you!

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Determining your personal iso finds the accurate iso of the film with your developer of choice. It means when you expose a grey card at zone 5 it will be at exactly zone 5 on the film after development. You see, developers do not give full film speed very often for numerous reasons, as shown in my tests. Now, measuring the shadows and closing down two stops is placing the shadows in their right zone - zone 3. You still have to do that. But, because you know your personal film speed with your developer you know the shadows will be accurately in zone 3.

@eusebiorodriguez4492 Жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet That makes sense now. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your responses and all your knowledge in your videos. Thank you!

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

You're welcome my friend!

@lylupylylum 3 жыл бұрын

Is there any way to check this without enlarger? Would I be able to find the sweet spot with densiometer? I am scanning at the moment and I don't have access to the darkroom unfortunately.

@PictorialPlanet 3 жыл бұрын

This method is really designed for matching your developer, film, and darkroom workflow.

@nilzthorbo5437 2 жыл бұрын

How long is the left piece of paper exposed to light? 18seconds like the one in your 1st video?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, exactly. I used the same f-stop on the enlarger, the same height on the enlarger, and the same time which was 6 bursts of 3 seconds (important to get exactly the same exposure).

@AnthonyGrisier 3 жыл бұрын

Wonderful videos! My question is, I don't print my negatives. Will I still benefit from doing this process?

@PictorialPlanet 3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Use my times/technique and you'll be good to go. And there's more to come to assist everyone from darkroom to scanning. Good to have you on board and thank you!

@AnthonyGrisier 3 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet that's great to hear. I've already used your D23 video to mix up D23 for the first time ever and got great results. Next on my list is TF-2. Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to put these out.

@PictorialPlanet 3 жыл бұрын

Check out this week's Friday Tip and you'll have a stop bath 👍 Shhhhhhh don't give it away ;) BTW, I really appreciate these kind of messages. It makes it all worthwhile. I just want anyone interested to make their best negatives, scans, and prints. Thank you Anthony!

@AustenGoldsmithPhotography 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Any advice on best dev for hp5 , i shoot surf so need faster films

@PictorialPlanet 3 жыл бұрын

You need full film speed and maybe a dev for fine grain. 510-pyro achieves both of these and is a great match with HP5.

@AustenGoldsmithPhotography 3 жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet cheers ! You sold me pyro a few hours earlier , definitely going to try it , I love grain but some of my images are over grainy , perfect exposures are hard to get when your being thrown around in the surf holding a Nikonos

@davefaulkner6302 3 жыл бұрын

@Bob Smith I believe you can develop XP2 using B&W chemistry.

@msam927 Жыл бұрын

If you are so kind. If your camera doesn't have 1/3 stops in aperture or speed, is there an easy way to test for zone 1 with 1/3-stop steps? Are the results with 35 mm film valid for the 120, 6x6 or 6x4.5 format?

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Hi Max! Just use half stops. Thus can be done with most lenses by setting half way between each click stop on the lens.

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Oh, and 35mm is the same as 120, 6x6 and 6x4.5

@msam927 Жыл бұрын

@@PictorialPlanet Thanks

@msam927 Жыл бұрын

Thanks.

@Larpy1933 Жыл бұрын

The video stops at 2:09 - 2:10. I’d love to see it. After 4 attempts, I write this to you.

@Larpy1933 Жыл бұрын

iOS Safari was the one it didn’t run with. KZfaq iOS app: 100%. Sorry to bother you.

@PictorialPlanet Жыл бұрын

Also, watch the FX55 series where I cover this again.

@alexanderpedranti6278 2 жыл бұрын

Your videos have been extremely helpful in improving my dark room skills. I do have a question though. Once you calculate the correct development time for your film and developer combination, how do you calculate correct n+1 and n-1 times?

@PictorialPlanet 2 жыл бұрын

Glad my videos help, Alexander. For N+1 shoot the negative in zone 8 and find the development time that lifts it back up to zone 9. For N-1 photograph the negative at zone 10 and find the development time that pulls it back to zone 9. As a rough rule of thumb try increasing development by 30% for N+1 or reducing development by 30% for N-1.