Math Olympiad Problem which frightened 300K+ examinees!

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Math Window

Math Window

2 ай бұрын

Comparison, which one is greater, 59^60 or 60^59?
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Пікірлер: 52
@adw1z
@adw1z 2 ай бұрын
One can show that for a > b >= e , b^a > a^b, so immediately 59^60 > 60^59 This is proven by considering the graph ln(x)/x for x > 0, and showing it has a global maximum at x = e, and monotonically decreasing to 0+ as x->infinity. Hence for a > b >= e: ln(b)/b > ln(a)/a ==> aln(b) > bln(a) ==> b^a > a^b Similarly, ln(x)/x is monotonically increasing from 0 to e, and hence for p < q p^q < q^p This is pretty much the best that we can do, if p < e and q >= e, we have a deadzone of values where we can’t evaluate the inequalities. For example: 2^3 < 3^2 2^4 = 4^2 2^5 > 5^2 Edit: There is actually a way of comparing the inequalities in the "deadzone" for special cases, which is a little trickier. We now consider intersections of the straight line y = mx + c with the curve y = ln(x) for varying m > 0 and c, and x > 0: 1) If there exists a line of the form y = mx for m < 1/e which intersects ln(x) at x = a and x = b (one can show quite easily that there are 2 intersections in this case, and they occur at a < e and b > e), then a^b = b^a. Lets attempt to show this with a = 2 and b = 4; then the gradient of such a straight line is: (ln(4) - ln(2))/(4-2) = ln(2)/2. Hence, it suffices to show that y = xln(2)/2 intersects y = ln(x) at x = 2 and x = 4. This is true as 2ln(2)/2 = ln(2), and 4ln(2)/2 = ln(4). Hence, 2^4 = 4^2 !! 2) If we consider the line y = x/e + c, for some c < 0, and it intersects ln(x) at two points, x = p and x = q, with p < e and q > e. One can show in this case that p^q < q^p. This is a highly specific case however. More details of these can be found on the STEP II 2023 Paper (Question 1).
@marinvidalina4573
@marinvidalina4573 2 ай бұрын
Instead "tricky" part, even simpler would be to use approximation: (1+1/59)^59~e Then you got the same: e/59
@bblv2
@bblv2 2 ай бұрын
Brilliant!
@MichaelRothwell1
@MichaelRothwell1 2 ай бұрын
I think the point of the solution in the video is that you can get there in a very elementary way without knowing anything about e.
@billymorgan7717
@billymorgan7717 2 ай бұрын
Considering 59 and 60 are almost the same number, and you have 59 being multipled 1 additional time over the 60^59, this alone would implie 59^60>60^59
@MrArcan10
@MrArcan10 26 күн бұрын
not obvious
@barangoktugaday9099
@barangoktugaday9099 23 күн бұрын
2,3 59,60 3-2 = 1 60-59 = 1 3’2 = 9 2’3 = 8 even the smallest example doesnt comes up with your thing so i dont think its that easy
@valeyard00
@valeyard00 13 күн бұрын
logic fail on your part
@BarBarik786
@BarBarik786 24 күн бұрын
Just calculate the number of digits by using Logarithm as follow : Num of digits = (characteristic of log) + 1 Now , 59 ^ 60 [ ] 60 ^ 59 Taking (log base 10) on both sides => 60 * log ( 59 ) [ ] 59 * log ( 60 ) => 106.2511 [ ] 104.9109 Thus , number of digits in 59 ^ 60 = 106 + 1 = 107 number of digits in 60 ^ 59 = 104 + 1 = 105 Hence , 59 ^ 60 [ > ] 60 ^ 59
@igz8989
@igz8989 2 ай бұрын
Your videos are awesome! Thank you
@zonked1200
@zonked1200 Ай бұрын
I don't get the tricky part. How is (1+1/2)*(1+1/3) etc related to the actual question?
@lucassantana7511
@lucassantana7511 21 күн бұрын
It’s a math property: if a
@geeteshgadkari
@geeteshgadkari 2 ай бұрын
It's much simpler than that: 59^60 = (60-1)^60 which can be factorized as = (60-1) × (60^59 + 60^58 + 60^57 + .... + 1) Notice than the first term in the second bracket is simply 60^59.. and everything else is a positive number which is added to it.. hence 59^60 > 60^59
@maxcanaday6208
@maxcanaday6208 Ай бұрын
How was (60-1)^60 factorized into (60-1) * (60^59+...+1)? What is the name of that algebraic law?
@geeteshgadkari
@geeteshgadkari Ай бұрын
@@maxcanaday6208 I don't think there is a name for it, but it is straightforward to prove that: x^n - 1 = (x - 1) * (x^(n-1) + x^(n-2) + ... + x + 1) simply divide x^n -1 by x-1
@lukeminton-schwarzmanschol1943
@lukeminton-schwarzmanschol1943 Ай бұрын
@@maxcanaday6208It's generalization of difference of squares / cubes etc
@drowzeerutherford6037
@drowzeerutherford6037 Ай бұрын
@@maxcanaday6208 I think they are *cyclotomic polynomials* .
@bharatmahaan2991
@bharatmahaan2991 Ай бұрын
A calculation using smaller figures will also prove it... 5⁶ and 6⁵ 5x5x5x5x5x5 = 15625 6x6x6x6x6 = 7776 6⁷ and 7⁶ 6x6x6x6x6x6x6 = 279936 7x7x7x7x7x7 = 117649
@pzktupel2390
@pzktupel2390 Ай бұрын
a^b is ever lager b^a where 1< a
@RR-bs9mr
@RR-bs9mr Ай бұрын
consider decmials when e
@4draven418
@4draven418 Ай бұрын
Using the Binomial Theorem approximation for small x (approx 1+nx) then no need to go beyond line two.
@JSSTyger
@JSSTyger Ай бұрын
I think with these types of problems, the larger exponent and smaller base wins. As in (a-1)^b > a^(b+1). This will work for a bases and exponents greater than 2 I believe.
@rickkwitkoski1976
@rickkwitkoski1976 Ай бұрын
Just try a few beginning with 2^3 and 3^2 and then a few more. You can see the trend very quickly. The larger exponent will always give the larger number. Is that a "proof"? No. But you can see the two possible results diverging.
@jim2376
@jim2376 Ай бұрын
59(60/59) v 60. Doesn't take a large exponent to bump 59 above 60. 59^60 > 60^59.
@whoff59
@whoff59 2 ай бұрын
Above some number the size of the exponent always matter more than the size of the base. This is already the case with 3⁴ (=81) > 4³ (=64) but not yet with 2³ (=8) < 3² (=9) So the turnaround is at ~3 (e?).
@RR-bs9mr
@RR-bs9mr Ай бұрын
yeah its e
@bobbybannerjee5156
@bobbybannerjee5156 2 ай бұрын
Brilliant!
@seroujghazarian6343
@seroujghazarian6343 2 ай бұрын
Or, just see that x^(1/x) is descending for x>e, so 59^(1/59)>60^(1/60)
@yadusolparterre
@yadusolparterre Ай бұрын
Exponents ate a fucking powerful thing. They always win
@fr5407
@fr5407 2 ай бұрын
lol the litle number divided by the big number
@kedarnadkarni8084
@kedarnadkarni8084 23 күн бұрын
60^59 = (59*(60/59))^59=59^59*(1+1/59)^59 < 59^59*e(1+1/n)^n for all positive n)
@timanishchuk
@timanishchuk Ай бұрын
a >= b >= e a^b
@mohamedsalah5525
@mohamedsalah5525 2 ай бұрын
↩️
@BarbaraAnokyeOfosuah
@BarbaraAnokyeOfosuah 24 күн бұрын
I don't understand oo
@SunriseLAW
@SunriseLAW Ай бұрын
Hypothesis: x^(x+1) > (x+1)^x for any positive number where x>2
@nikita_x44
@nikita_x44 Ай бұрын
it can be prpven easily for n>=e~=2.71: same steps as before until we get to (1+1/n)^n*1/n. for n> (1+1/n)^n
@thegamer97HS
@thegamer97HS Ай бұрын
this problem makes no sense, it's common knowledge that the number with the bigger exponent is always bigger than the one with the bigger base, if the numbers are inverted if the numbers are bigger than 3.
@altairlion
@altairlion Ай бұрын
No, -2^31 is not bigger than 10^5
@valeyard00
@valeyard00 13 күн бұрын
wrong. The tipping point it e not 3, and it is not "well known" or intuitive to most math students that have to view this kind of video
@thegamer97HS
@thegamer97HS 13 күн бұрын
@@valeyard00 i said 3 as whole number. and if it's not intuitive to most math students they chose the wrong studies.
@Supertrack238
@Supertrack238 2 ай бұрын
WRONG! But it did make me watch it more than I should have... so they won anyway - hahahahah
@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348
@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348 2 ай бұрын
Why’s it wrong, it looks correct
@Supertrack238
@Supertrack238 2 ай бұрын
@@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348 Because 59/60 is less than 1, and 60/59 is more than 1.
@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348
@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348 2 ай бұрын
@@Supertrack238 so…
@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348
@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348 2 ай бұрын
@@Supertrack238 where’s the timestamp
@Supertrack238
@Supertrack238 2 ай бұрын
@@justintimetoclashandbrawl3348 Huh?
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