Debunking The Battle of Cagayan: 1000 Samurai vs 60 Spanish Tercios

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Metatron

Metatron

2 жыл бұрын

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What is the battle of Cagayan? According to some articles the 1582 Cagayan battles were a series of clashes between the forces of the Spanish Philippines led by Captain Juan Pablo de Carrión, and wokou (possibly led by Japanese pirates) headed by Tay Fusa. These battles, which took place in the vicinity of the Cagayan River, finally resulted in a Spanish victory. Some of these articles mention numbers such as 1000 Japanese samurai fighting against 40 or 60 Spanish tercios. On this video we'll discuss what actually most likely happened, debunking this pop fiction idea of 40 men defeating 1000 samurai.
Link to Gunbai military history: gunbai-militaryhistory.blogspo...
Link to the Spanish article: historiasamurai.com/2019/01/2...
Link to articles I'm responding to
/ 426043995434344
ichi.pro/it/pirati-samurai-co...
www.globalist.it/culture/2016...
ilcantooscuro.wordpress.com/2...
The letters I read on the video
The First Letter - Written by Juan Baptista Roman, June 25th 1582
"Most Illustrious and Excellent Sir:
I do not know whether the letters with new information which the governor is writing today will arrive in time to go on this ship, which has been despatched to this port of Acabite; so I wish to give your Excellency notice of what is going on. Yesterday-St. John’s Day-in the afternoon, there arrived six soldiers who had gone with Captain Juan Pablo de Carrion against the Japanese, who are settled on the river Cagayan.
They say that Juan Pablo sailed with his fleet-which comprised the ship “Sant Jusepe,” the admiral’s galley, and five fragatas-from the port of Bigan, situated in Ylocos, about thirty-five days’ journey from Cagayan.
As he sailed out, he encountered a Chinese pirate, who very soon surrendered. He put seventeen soldiers aboard of her and continued his course. While rounding Cape Borgador near Cagayan one fair morning at dawn, they found themselves near a Japanese ship, which Juan Pablo engaged with the admiral’s galley in which he himself was.
With his artillery he shot away their mainmast and killed several men.
The Japanese put out grappling-irons and poured two hundred men aboard the galley, armed with pikes and breastplates. There remained sixty arquebusiers firing at our men.
Finally, the enemy conquered the galley as far as the mainmast. There our people also made a stand in their extreme necessity, and made the Japanese retreat to their ship. They dropped their grappling-irons, and set their foresail, which still remained to them. At this moment the ship “Sant Jusepe” grappled with them, and with the artillery and forces of the ship overcame the Japanese; the latter fought valiantly until only eighteen remained, who gave themselves up, exhausted. Some men on the galley were killed, and among them its captain, Pero Lucas, fighting valiantly as a good soldier.
Then the captain, Juan Pablo, ascended the Cagayan River, and found in the opening a fort and eleven Japanese ships. He passed along the upper shore because the mouth of the river is a league in width. The ship “Sant Jusepe” was entering the river, and it happened by bad fortune that some of our soldiers, who were in a small fragata, called out to the captain, saying to him: “Return, return to Manila! Set the whole fleet to return, because there are a thousand Japanese on the river with a great deal of artillery, and we are few.”
Whereupon Captain Luys de Callejo directed his course seaward; and although Juan Pablos fired a piece of artillery he did not and could not enter, and continued to tack back and forth.
In the morning he anchored in a bay, where such a tempest overtook them that it broke three cables out of four that he had, and one used for weighing anchor. He sent these six men in a small vessel to see if there was on an islet any water, of which they were in great need.
The men lost their way, without finding any water; and when they returned where they had left their ship they could not find it. They met with some of those Indians who were in the galley with Juan Pablos, from whom it was learned that Juan Pablo had ascended the river two leagues and had fortified himself in a bay; and that with him was the galley, which had begun to leak everywhere, in the engagement with the Japanese.
The Indian crew was discharged on account of not having the supplies which were lost on the galley. Most of these men went aboard the “Sant Jusepe.”

Пікірлер: 2 600
@metatronyt
@metatronyt 2 жыл бұрын
Check out this link www.squarespace.com/metatron and use the Coupon Code: METATRON Thank you very much to Squarespace for sponsoring my video! Check out the link and enjoy!
@berzgaming1039
@berzgaming1039 2 жыл бұрын
roman vs spartan pls
@kingkuroneko7253
@kingkuroneko7253 2 жыл бұрын
Yo
@berzgaming1039
@berzgaming1039 2 жыл бұрын
or can you just tell me who would win?
@michaelschumacher3869
@michaelschumacher3869 2 жыл бұрын
Castelnuovo metatron.... castelnuovo.
@joshwalker8984
@joshwalker8984 2 жыл бұрын
@@berzgaming1039 bro, the romans... The Romans CONQUERED Sparta...
@enoughofyourkoicarp
@enoughofyourkoicarp 2 жыл бұрын
I just imagine those pirates showing up before a raid like "We are a multi-ethnical, multi-cultural group from diverse backgrounds, we're here to plunder your riches in a totally non-racially motivated way!" and then went on in secrecy to found Ubisoft with their ill-gotten gains.
@whoelsebutmeofcoursei
@whoelsebutmeofcoursei 2 жыл бұрын
This exactly what happened!
@vampirecount3880
@vampirecount3880 2 жыл бұрын
lol
@sholahverassa8582
@sholahverassa8582 2 жыл бұрын
From wako to wacko in several centuries: the Ubisoft history.
@scutumfidelis1436
@scutumfidelis1436 2 жыл бұрын
But F Christianity in particular for some reason. t.ubisoft
@eelchiong6709
@eelchiong6709 2 жыл бұрын
Hail the politically-correct pirates!
@Warmaker01
@Warmaker01 2 жыл бұрын
"You Wakos are without a doubt, the worst pirates I've ever heard of." Wako: "But you have heard of us?"
@Marinealver
@Marinealver 2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure some Woku Anime Fan Art has been heard of.
@Justin-pe9cl
@Justin-pe9cl 2 жыл бұрын
THAT, is a tasty reference.
@champadragon9535
@champadragon9535 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6yklbdpxNLbmpc.html What this is from a Filipino historian
@fuyoiil8919
@fuyoiil8919 2 жыл бұрын
Tercios ._. Didn´t fight out of Europe. And the katanas and armor from the pirates are in the museums and they are Samurai Armor
@d.e.seymour6792
@d.e.seymour6792 2 жыл бұрын
Qi Jiguang
@nikolaidarksun7894
@nikolaidarksun7894 2 жыл бұрын
It's like the 300 Spartans against the Persians forgets to mention the 7000 men from Greek colonies that fought with the 300 hundred Spartans. Or the 500 Spanish taking down the Aztec empire forgets to mention the 20000 telexcal natives that were enemies of the Aztec that helped the Spanish
@jav1843
@jav1843 2 жыл бұрын
Except people tend to Skip the 20000 native Warriors that supported Cortés because It doesnt fit their "Spain bad deliberately exterminated all natives the aztecs were so cool" narrative,here in Spain when we learn about the conquest of México we are always told about how countless tribes that were basically vassals of the aztecs supported Cortés and his men as soon as they started their expeditions into those lands
@God-mb8wi
@God-mb8wi 2 жыл бұрын
@@jav1843 colonialism still bad
@davidwarren719
@davidwarren719 2 жыл бұрын
Colonialism isn’t bad or good, it merely is.
@mohammadsadisanjaya1121
@mohammadsadisanjaya1121 2 жыл бұрын
@@God-mb8wi but still, those tribes were choosing the colonizer's rule instead of the aztec's
@God-mb8wi
@God-mb8wi 2 жыл бұрын
​@@mohammadsadisanjaya1121 if a bunch of incredibly advanced aliens came down to earth and allied with, say, the US against its rivals, we'd undoubtedly take their assistance as well. we would feel equally shocked when they subjugate us after the fact.
@beledra4051
@beledra4051 2 жыл бұрын
I'm Spanish, and when I studied that battle in high school, (so many years ago...) I was told that the Spanish army fought against chinese and japanese pirates, not against samurais... And I dont remember the numbers, but... my History teacher never told us about so few Spanish soldiers there as that article says...
@kitus360
@kitus360 2 жыл бұрын
It is true, never in Spain we had said that were samurais… we say that where ronins and pirates. So, no much for a “Debunk” but even if an anglosaxon is “hispanic” they always are a little jealous about our history and want to debunk, “view with other perspective” or just lie like they do mantaining the black legend made by Holand
@21segarra
@21segarra 2 жыл бұрын
Si eres español y has oído de esta historia deberías de saber lo que se guarda en los registros del museo militar de Madrid. Conocerías por tanto que 40 eran los que combatieron y el restante manejaban la nave y cañones. Por otro lado, los piratas no eran samuráis, sino ronins, mercenarios sin señor que combatían bajo el amparo de los piratas de la zona, que a su vez estaban bajo pagamento de Portugal y China.
@beledra4051
@beledra4051 2 жыл бұрын
@@21segarra Conozco lo poco que me enseñaron en el instituto, no es uno de los momentos históricos, ni de los lugares que me haya dedicado a investigar por mi cuenta. Sé que fueron piratas, no samurais. Pero no recuerdo que mi profesor hablase de tan pocos soldados como menciona ese artículo. Nunca he estado en el Museo militar de Madrid. ¿Merece la pena visitarlo?
@21segarra
@21segarra 2 жыл бұрын
@@beledra4051 es interesante, aunque recomendaría ir con guía para conocer algunas curiosidades. Si no recuerdo mal habían días de entrada libre.
@janlics
@janlics 2 жыл бұрын
Bueno, ya te enseñaron mas que a mi 😂 Aunque claro, mi instituto no brillaba por su calidad...
@BadBomb555
@BadBomb555 2 жыл бұрын
So the whole event was basically just a skirmish between Spanish Tercios and some group of Asian pirates.
@metatronyt
@metatronyt 2 жыл бұрын
Basically yes
@lenny_1369
@lenny_1369 2 жыл бұрын
im curious to know what kind of armor those pirates are wearing, is it a mix of Japanese armor like what samurais use mixed with Mongol like armor? or is it more diverse?
@hansihobr
@hansihobr 2 жыл бұрын
Not completely true, as there was no Tercio in the Phillipines.
@Alemag_
@Alemag_ 2 жыл бұрын
@@lenny_1369 in one of the letters, it is mentioned that they have breastplates and pikes. I can't remember if it was this same letter that said the equipment was provided by the Portuguese. I'm going to verify this and will let you know. If this is the case, then it would be likely that some of them were wearing European breastplates.
@Intranetusa
@Intranetusa 2 жыл бұрын
@@lenny_1369 This battle happened in the late 1500s...which is long after the Mongol empire and the main Mongol successor states had collapsed. They would not be wearing armor that resembled the Mongols of the 1200s AD.
@TheBayzent
@TheBayzent 2 жыл бұрын
"Highly Diverse multi ethnic group" [Netflix rubs hands intensely]
@sankujamatia525
@sankujamatia525 2 жыл бұрын
God no
@quentinleroux6762
@quentinleroux6762 2 жыл бұрын
Most of them were asian so netflix don't care
@kubli365
@kubli365 2 жыл бұрын
@@quentinleroux6762 they'd bring on black people either way
@aaaaaaa9207
@aaaaaaa9207 2 жыл бұрын
@@kubli365 they can use melanesians tho
@kubli365
@kubli365 2 жыл бұрын
@@aaaaaaa9207 "mela what?" - Netflix exec
@c0mbat_m0nkey5
@c0mbat_m0nkey5 2 жыл бұрын
I like how in both letters even though the Spanish appear to have won the battles they didn't talk s*** about the pirates.. they said in both letters that they were valiant fighters.
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
Spaniards hired samurais as mercenaries even from the Japanese diaspora in Luzón. Maybe some of the samurais were actually fighting the pirates (who were 3 out of 10 Japanese and led by the Japanese according to the History of the Ming).
@fernandomartinez366
@fernandomartinez366 2 жыл бұрын
Spaniards be like: someone make note of that man’s bravery
@jamie_d0g978
@jamie_d0g978 2 жыл бұрын
Spaniards always respect bravery and catholic religious devotion. As long as you're brave and a good Christian, you're ok
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
@@jamie_d0g978 Jesus: Most people go to hell. Catholics: Who cares what Jesus says? ENtire NATIONS go to heaven! Jesus: "Mary.... I call you merely... woman." Catholics: "MOTHER OF GOD MOST BLESSED WE ARE JSUT OBSESSED!" Jesus: "Who is my mother? Those who do God's will are my mother and my brother." Catholics: "The hell with Jesus' wods there!" Jesus: "Call no man on earth father in teh sense of having spiritual lordship over others." Cathoolics: "We have a pope which means father. Jesus is wrong." Satan: "Good Catholic pawns."
@mimorisenpai8540
@mimorisenpai8540 2 жыл бұрын
@@scintillam_dei Catholic: outside Catholic Church can be save Mary is new ark of covenant
@Gearparadummies
@Gearparadummies 2 жыл бұрын
Actually I was taught by a wonderful History teacher back in the day and that´s how I learned the word "Wako". No half educated person here in Spain thinks they were "1000 Samurai".
@Cyricist001
@Cyricist001 2 жыл бұрын
I have never once hear anyone claim that there were a thousand samurai, just pirates with some ronin against Spanish soldiers and their local levies that managed to win a battle with a numerically superior force.
@p.s.9658
@p.s.9658 2 жыл бұрын
Samurais sin amo, sí, ronin. Eso no los hace menos diestros, ni menos letales. La ventaja la tuvieron los rodeleros. El escudo es el enemigo de la katana.
@adeptusastartes2388
@adeptusastartes2388 2 жыл бұрын
@@p.s.9658 la gente cree que por qué eran piratas estos no eran menos peligroso los samurais tenían códigos para pelear los piratas no
@champadragon9535
@champadragon9535 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6yklbdpxNLbmpc.html Watch this guys from a Filipino historian
@abanico_rodilla
@abanico_rodilla 2 жыл бұрын
National myths exist everywhere, in every country.
@anachronisticon
@anachronisticon 2 жыл бұрын
There are a fair few historical naval battles where taller sailing ships held out for several hours against larger forces purely because its physically pretty hard to board a ship that's several metres higher than your skiff/galley/longship.
@patriciusvunkempen102
@patriciusvunkempen102 2 жыл бұрын
yep european sailing ships had very good technology for antibording measures, also european crews were motivated to fight for their lifes when at the other sid of the world because 1. they may not even have known how to surrender to some unknown culture, 2. if they surrendered their likelyhood of being freed or bought back there were even lower than usual. this lead to european crews fighting against all odds and pretty fiercely. also the boarding defences of european especialy southern european ships were developed in the mediterranean where there was a high risk from piracy and ottomans and so on. european ships had dedicated killzones in the middle and the castles had low caliber guns aiming at the middle deck so they could give flanking fire, making bording extremely costly.
@loslobos786
@loslobos786 2 жыл бұрын
Not to mention the Spanish just loved to turn the Deck of a ship into miniature battlefield. Imagine climbing up a Galley and as you peek over the top you see sixty men in a Tercio all pointing pikes at you like some giant porcupine. Lol I'd jump right back down and take a swim🤣
@RedRocket4000
@RedRocket4000 2 жыл бұрын
Forecastle as in the castle in the front with aftcastle Mediveal ships were build as multi level forts. A tradition for effective fighting and still continuing into this period.
@MariusThePaladin
@MariusThePaladin 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, as soon as I heard that the Spanish came in a fleet of 2 Galleons and 7 Frigates I Immediately went: "No shit they could beat 1000 with only 60 (although it's impossible to man those 7 ships with just 60 men). The 1000 only had basic Chinese/Japanese ship and the Spanish had the most powerful war machine in the world at that time"
@reiniernn9071
@reiniernn9071 2 жыл бұрын
@@MariusThePaladin No one states that only 60 man were on board. It were 60 soldiers,, so guys not belonging to the sailng crew. And that war machine was challenged (the same years) by the dutch and English .With success.
@JapanatWar
@JapanatWar 2 жыл бұрын
Ahh you beat me to it!! Fun fact as the Metatron mentions the wako were multi ethnic, well there's actual mentions in record that a few Dutchmen were apart of the crews!
@metatronyt
@metatronyt 2 жыл бұрын
I'll look forward to see your take on It!
@JapanatWar
@JapanatWar 2 жыл бұрын
@@metatronyt Someday! I have to say your video is a hard act to follow
@i_love_crpg
@i_love_crpg 2 жыл бұрын
Later wokou pirates were mostly non japanese yes, early wokou was mostly desperate ronin from the Kyushu islands
@JapanatWar
@JapanatWar 2 жыл бұрын
@@i_love_crpg Ronin might've been amongst them but they were not the majority
@valentinmitterbauer4196
@valentinmitterbauer4196 2 жыл бұрын
Isn't it interesting that pirates, in some way, preceded humanist ideas, or at least developed humanist ideas on their own. (Idk about asian pirates, so this applies only to the ones in the new world and madagascar) A group of multiethnic people where every man was considered human and every man's word was influential? Where captains got elected and impeached? Where labour contracts and social systems were used? Hundrets of years ago? One could think, giving every man roughly the same amount of power leads to a fairer system... (Also i don't want to glorify pirates, they still were murdering, looting, r*ping barbarians, but considering their time period they had some remarkable progressive policies.)
@Habiyeru
@Habiyeru 2 жыл бұрын
The Philippines was quite a diverse country during this time. According to a 1591 census based on tributes, out of a total population of 667,612, there were 20,000 Chinese, 15,600 Mexicans and Peruvians, 3,000 Japanese, and 600 Spanish, with the rest being native Filipinos. Native colonial soldiers were shuffled between the Philippines, Mexico, and Peru which made it easier to control the regions. Chinese trade had been in the country centuries before the Spanish, but it intensified after colonization and led to the creation of the first “Chinatown” in history. The Philippines also became a stop for Japanese trade, and, towards the end of the Sengoku Jidai, the place of exile for many Japanese Christians including one Daimyo, Justo Takayama.
@donleondevillafana7615
@donleondevillafana7615 2 жыл бұрын
Excelentes datos, si cuenta con la bibliografía sería muy agradecida.
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
@@donleondevillafana7615 Si quieres recrear el Imperio español, estoy terminando un mapa del tamaño más grande posible y realístico para Age of Empires 2 HD, desde Canadá hasta Antártida, y desde China hacia el este hasta Arabia. Este tipo "metatron" hizo vídeo de media hora intentando socovar la gloria de nuestro pueblo. Es un fraude que no mencionó que los portugueses vendieron a los japoneses y chinos piratas armas de fuego y artillería.
@barriolimbas
@barriolimbas 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly, doubt if there weren't any Filipinos in the Spanish crew as well.
@johnnymechavez429
@johnnymechavez429 2 жыл бұрын
@@barriolimbasThe Spanish also have used Filipino natives to fight for their wars. One example is that of Dagohoy's rebellion which lasted for 80 years which they quelled using the Cebuanos as their soldiers.
@barriolimbas
@barriolimbas 2 жыл бұрын
@@johnnymechavez429 In school it's taught to be 100, never could understand how such a potential classic in asymmetric war is not often discussed or even popularized in film, documentary etc.
@mangopastor
@mangopastor 10 ай бұрын
That's weird, i thought a single japanese ronin could take down a million inferior western knights with his invincible katana that can cut through muskets, at least that's what anime says
@Josergr
@Josergr Ай бұрын
western Knights maybe , but Spanish tercio soldier no , lol
@ModernKnight
@ModernKnight 2 жыл бұрын
fascinating video, thanks.
@tristanstaguinod2964
@tristanstaguinod2964 2 жыл бұрын
Hi
@metatronyt
@metatronyt 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching Jason!
@APinchOfHistory
@APinchOfHistory 2 жыл бұрын
You both have amazing channels!
@libertyprime6932
@libertyprime6932 2 жыл бұрын
You make awesome content sir, you should have a TV show if there was any justice in the world 😁
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
Black Legend video.
@apatheticsquid5658
@apatheticsquid5658 2 жыл бұрын
Conspiracy theory: It's actually anti katana propaganda made by 2013 skallagrim
@burner27
@burner27 2 жыл бұрын
And Shad.
@TheObscuran
@TheObscuran 2 жыл бұрын
Actually is more like Spanish sensationalism, as this man argues here (Spanish audio though): kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gpujdrmGsa66Z58.html&ab_channel=DivulgadoresdelMisterio
@jegsdinogod5091
@jegsdinogod5091 2 жыл бұрын
I think flea markets are good enough anti katana propaganda.
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
Did he even mention that the Japanese ronin with the Chinese pirates among others had guns and artillery from the Portuguese? Major omission revealing his prejudice against the truth that SPain beat samurais even when outnumbered, and even when the samurais also had gunpowder power.
@mmabri
@mmabri 2 жыл бұрын
@@scintillam_dei They weren't Samurai. This has been debunked time and time again. They were a lose band of pirates made up of mostly Japanese, Chinese, and Filipino soldiers, fishermen, smugglers and merchants. Open up a freaking history book, and read the thing.
@JALUone1
@JALUone1 2 жыл бұрын
Ahhh pero si hubieran sido ingleses o estadounidenses ya sería de digna admiración
@mago727
@mago727 Жыл бұрын
Jajajaja si Rambo solo puede contra mil jajaja solo cun un cuchillo y una metralleta y no olvidemos que en sus películas cualquier ciudadano común y corriente estadounidense puede rescatar aviones y derrotar terroristas jaja
@juand4354
@juand4354 3 ай бұрын
Como siempre los anglos tratando de blanquear su historia
@SandRhomanHistory
@SandRhomanHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Got lots of comments about this event in my comments. I feel reassured in my suspicion about it :)
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
The Black Legend teaches you to dismiss any claim of Spanish superiority. Good job. You passed the indoctrination with flying colours.
@othertipo
@othertipo 2 жыл бұрын
@@21segarra Why you post some insecure link from a dubious source? And why you also post a link to a Edo period armor?
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
@@21segarra Ey. Si te gusta Age of Empires 2 HD, estoy haciendo un mapa inmenso y realístico de América desde Canadá hasta Tierra del Fuego. Includos están: España, Portugal, Italia, Francia, Inglaterra en gran parte, Irlanda, toda África, todo el Japón, el este de China, Hawaii y el norte de Filipinas. Pronto ojalá lo terminaré.
@jeanbethencourt1506
@jeanbethencourt1506 2 жыл бұрын
This doesn't really dispel much to me. A much smaller force of Spanish soldiers defeated a drastically larger force of Chinese and Japanese pirates. In the 19th century, Japanese "adventurers"(aka Pirates) murdered the Korean Queen. Them not being classified as "ronin" or whatever doesn't change much.
@FlippableFlappy
@FlippableFlappy 2 жыл бұрын
@@jeanbethencourt1506 Its weeb cope. The fact is that Japanese led the pirates and many ronin were probably among the pirates. This was also a period of decline in Chinese piracy meaning less Chinese, more Japanese. The Japanese outnumbered the Spanish and yet the Spanish still bent them over. Its quite obvious from history that tercio > samurai, unfortunately too many westerners are weened on anime nowadays.
@alexcheng1560
@alexcheng1560 2 жыл бұрын
I don’t think any serious scholar would argue that 1000 samurai were present at the supposed battle. That being said, from the roughly contemporary Boxer Codex, we know that Samurai, or at least Japanese men who presented themselves as Samurai had a presence in the Philippines. The Codex, along with the the fact that the letter rather explicitly distinguishes a Chinese Pirate ship from a Japanese one seems to indicate that the Spanish could recognize the difference between Chinese and Japanese, not to mention how foreigners of various ethnicities made frequent visits to Manila and had their own quarters, including the Japanese. The Spaniards are likely to have been somewhat familiar with differences, and I don’t think the they would have had ideological qualms over the ethnicity identity of the pirates. The battle also occurs a few decades after the Jiajing Wako raids of the Ming, meaning that there would have been a reduced Chinese participation in Wako Bands as reported by Ming sources of the era. More than likely these Wako bands were still multiethnic conglomerations, but given the reduced Chinese participation for the aforementioned reasons, and general disdain of the pirates by the local Philippines, its possible that the bands at Cagayan would have had a sizeable Japanese population, if not a slight majority, especially giving the rather explicit mentions of Japanese identity in the letters.
@MrKrtek00
@MrKrtek00 2 жыл бұрын
Before the XVIIth century, the samurai was not a class, ie not necessarily well defined who is samurai who is not. It is easy to imagine that the terms were loosely used, especially if someone wanted to prop up himself far from home.
@ANSELAbitsxb
@ANSELAbitsxb 2 жыл бұрын
Well I watched a similar video on kings and generals and they said that only a small number of woku were from japan. Also while the number of woku is exaggerated I dont think it is by much. I mean just look at Diu, the portugese were outnumbered almost 4 to 1 but still managed to win only taking 30 casualties while they killed 1000+ of the marmeluke mercenaries.
@alexcheng1560
@alexcheng1560 2 жыл бұрын
@@ANSELAbitsxb Wako demographics fluctuated over time, and once they lost their foothold in China(which would’ve been about 10-20 years before the Cagayan battles), the amount of Chinese participants waned, making Japanese participation higher than it was in previous decades. That being said I agree with your assessment that 1000 Wako is perhaps not too terrible of an overexaggeration. When the Ming General QiJiguang defeated a Wako army and only lost 3 men in Battle of Hua Street.
@the.wandering.warrior
@the.wandering.warrior 2 жыл бұрын
Well said 👍... Objectively, as far as well know, a small colonial Spanish force ousted a larger, Japanese led, maybe even majority Japanese, piracy operation and the rest is history. I think there must be a balance in impartial assessment when there is so little to go on and us in the modern day having maybe European-superiority or pro-Japanese sentiments...
@ANSELAbitsxb
@ANSELAbitsxb 2 жыл бұрын
@@the.wandering.warrior I don't think european superiority was a thing back then but ports and spanish were basically thought to be invincible by everyone, it wasn't untill the dutch wars that that idea was challenged. And doing extraordinary things with low numbers was basically their thing.
@exudeku
@exudeku 2 жыл бұрын
Filipino Here, Funny that the story always said by my family from Ifugao [the Headhunter Tribes and the region where Skallagrim's Favorite axe came from]. Terico and Conquistadores are just a recon party, and the "samurais" are just Wakou or Pirates...mostly Rónin or Masterless Samurai/Mercs...I mean...ITS ARMOURED SCOUT PARTY VS SOME SMELLY RAIDING PIRATES. Pirate Raids are common here in Early Modern Asia...hell my Dad's Region of Dumaguete still has that Lighthouse made by the Spanish to repel Muslim Pirates, and my Capital of Manila goy Raided by multiple Chinese Pirates like Limahong
@drafezard7315
@drafezard7315 2 жыл бұрын
Samurai* Japanese words double as both plural and singular please stop adding unnecessary s'.
@exudeku
@exudeku 2 жыл бұрын
@@drafezard7315 oh god, I know, there is a reason there are " " in the word "Samurais"
@drafezard7315
@drafezard7315 2 жыл бұрын
@@exudeku Putting it in quotes does not excuse it... every time I hear or read it with the s gives me a migraine. -_-
@MarvilatAggies
@MarvilatAggies 2 жыл бұрын
@@drafezard7315 SaMyuRaiS
@MarvilatAggies
@MarvilatAggies 2 жыл бұрын
Still a cool incursion if you think about it, pirates and a few ronin fighting our colonizers
@YeS1711
@YeS1711 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Love these debunking vids you make! Timely too because I only knew about this battle from the Kings and Generals video that came out last week. Appreciate your work !
@JohanssenJr
@JohanssenJr 2 жыл бұрын
I remember reading about this way back in the day for a college class. Basically the book said the European forces consisted of a galleon with their contingent of sailors and soldiers. So in according to the book the galleon was likely manned by about 250-300 sailors and 40 or so rodeleros, pikemen, and/or musketeers. For the pirates, the book mentioned the bulk of the ethnic makeup was likely Chinese or Korean, with few Japanese. The book it more or less drew the forces as 300-350 Europeans and unknown local allies vs 750-1000 pirates.
@FPRP1
@FPRP1 2 жыл бұрын
I've learned this ocurrance by a recent Kings and Generals video. You debunking makes the story even more interesting and i think the 2 videos complement each other very well.
@bribriarwhitey7781
@bribriarwhitey7781 2 жыл бұрын
You are not wrong, good sir.
@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin
@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin 2 жыл бұрын
Which video was that? Link?
@FPRP1
@FPRP1 2 жыл бұрын
@@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rr9grNunlt28Y6M.html
@merlingt1
@merlingt1 2 жыл бұрын
I like Kings and Generals but that was one of their worse videos. I was more confused and had more questions than when I started the video.
@icecell
@icecell 2 жыл бұрын
I've watched this subject first from there too! Really nice channel. 👍
@enovos3138
@enovos3138 2 жыл бұрын
Metatron doing Iberian history? It's quite late but it's a fine birthday present! I would love to hear of the Portuguese accounts of the Japanese.
@iamchengsolo
@iamchengsolo 2 жыл бұрын
I am so impressed you got the chinese pronunciation of wuokou right.
@enovos3138
@enovos3138 2 жыл бұрын
@@iamchengsolo Oh? I did huh?
@jesseherring4745
@jesseherring4745 2 жыл бұрын
Oh happy late birthday my bday was yesterday so your's is a day before mine
@enovos3138
@enovos3138 2 жыл бұрын
@@jesseherring4745 mine was at the tail end of last month, lol
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
"doing" as in "attempting to undermine the glory of"
@francescparellada4315
@francescparellada4315 2 жыл бұрын
Just found your channel, the way you explain how one should go about checking information and original sources is excellent and sadly often missing in the internet. Thanks for the video!
@rafaelrodrigues7971
@rafaelrodrigues7971 2 жыл бұрын
Internet is all about heated debates and strong opinions. Weeaboo said knights were stinky fatsos and katana sharper than diamonds? Hemaboo will say samurai were useless and katana were made of butter.
@CarlosGarcia-ze1mk
@CarlosGarcia-ze1mk 2 жыл бұрын
Both are wrong... but to be honest Katana even being a decent weapon was pretty useless on a battlefield, even Samurai knew that that's why they used nagitaka/bows and firearms as soon as they could to fight.
@lordjor96
@lordjor96 2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget you need a large crew in order to operate this spanish ships. So besides the Tercios we would have the ships crew with most likely joing the fight. Either by been frontline soldiers or operating the ship cannons
@Zeldaytal
@Zeldaytal 2 жыл бұрын
There was no tercios in asia. Not even in America iir. It was just a skirmish between spaniards and ronins
@comradekenobi6908
@comradekenobi6908 2 жыл бұрын
"The tercio (Spanish 'third) was the *tactical formation* that took its title from the medieval practice of dividing an army into three parts - the van, main battle and the rear." yeah i wouldn't call the Spanish marines on board the ship Tercios but whatever
@germanrodriguez8588
@germanrodriguez8588 2 жыл бұрын
@@comradekenobi6908 The tercio was also the Military unit who conform the tactical formation, like the roman legions who was called legionaries.
@maxstirner6143
@maxstirner6143 2 жыл бұрын
@@Zeldaytal there was in multiple times... Tercio is any "regular" unit of the spanish crown during the golden cents, from 60 men to 5000 men of Flandes
@IRussian007
@IRussian007 2 жыл бұрын
You dont. Smaller galleons could be operated by 40-50 men, and they could all be soldiers since operating the ship is pretty simple aside from manpower requirement. But there were 7 ships in total, plus some colonists, so easily over 100 men let alone women. I think the account mean about one engagement in a part of a battle before reinforcements arrived. One section would not have all 1000 men attack at once.
@thebigone6071
@thebigone6071 2 жыл бұрын
The Metatron could spend his whole life clapping historical and modern cheeks in an effort to get accurate information out there! No foolishness gets past the Metatron!!!!
@IRussian007
@IRussian007 2 жыл бұрын
With metatron liking your comment, him clapping cheeks is confirmed.
@shovel662
@shovel662 2 жыл бұрын
Metatron, Consumer of Pasta Bearer of Wisdom Clapper of Cheeks
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
What's accurate about dishonestly omitting that the ronin and Chinese pirates had guns and artillery from the Portuguese, attempting to dismiss Spanish victories as only due to having firearms? Reminds me of the not-smart-people who say Spain could win only against loincloth-wearing arrow shooters. Spain captured the king of France in a war in Italy.
@thebigone6071
@thebigone6071 2 жыл бұрын
SCINTILLAM DEI Why must you hate on the Metatron fam?
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
@@thebigone6071 I hate people who try to erase history because they're so obsessed with samurais they can't accept that lordless and therefore treasure-seeking samurais among other Asians doing piracy, wree beaten by Spaniards. The Black Legend. Look into it. Everyone who speaks English is affected, and most don't even know they're indoctrinated to belittle Spain.
@mrd8916
@mrd8916 2 жыл бұрын
The Metatron really inspired me into building my own Samurai Armour, despite my economic circumstances. Thank you!
@jonajo9757
@jonajo9757 2 жыл бұрын
Have you made any progress? Since I've made a test piece by cutting out 22 guage steel with shears, drilling holes, and following late period lacing methods that limit the amount of laces I use. Making an armor out of lamellar would he way too labor intensive.
@hemaccabe4292
@hemaccabe4292 2 жыл бұрын
OMG! I had never heard of this battle and I just watched another video about it! I’m ready for the Metatron perspective!
@Levi_o_Lusitano
@Levi_o_Lusitano 2 жыл бұрын
There was also a less known Battle between a Portuguese Nau, called the "Nossa Senhora da Graça", the famed "Black Ship" and several dozens japanese junks with thousands of samurai from the Arima Clan. The chase lasted for about 4 days and culminated in the boarding of the Portuguese Nau and the fierce melee that ensued. The captain of the Nau, André Pessoa then ordered the ship´s magazine to be set alight and for his men to abandon ship and shortly thereafter the Nau exploded in 2 sucessive explosions, killing most of the Portuguese Crew still on the Ship, including the captain, attacking Samurai and resulted as well in the loss of all the cargo. This was a result of direct Dutch interference in Japan´s trade intentions as they turned Japanese Clans against the Portuguese, resulting in this less known battle of History
@VK-sz4it
@VK-sz4it 2 жыл бұрын
I dind't know that. I remember "Black ship" from Shogun 2, but I had never known there is actual story behind.
@Levi_o_Lusitano
@Levi_o_Lusitano 2 жыл бұрын
@@VK-sz4it Black Ships would head for Japan to engage in the "nanban trade" every given time, every 1 or 2 years and they would paint their hulls black, so the Portuguese Naus or Galleons and later all western ships were called black ships. The "Nossa Senhora da Graça" was one of said ships, unfortunate enough to have been betrayed and ambushed near the coast of Nagasaki.
@comradekenobi6908
@comradekenobi6908 2 жыл бұрын
ah yes kamikaze attack before the Japanese thought of it
@the36lessons11
@the36lessons11 2 жыл бұрын
@@Levi_o_Lusitano I don't know Portuguese but does that translate to "Our Lady of Grace"?
@Levi_o_Lusitano
@Levi_o_Lusitano 2 жыл бұрын
@@the36lessons11 Yes thats it! 😉💪
@jonathanbetenbender307
@jonathanbetenbender307 2 жыл бұрын
To be fair the historical account doesn't seem biased they talked of the pirates bravery (much less bias than today).
@TheHaighus
@TheHaighus 2 жыл бұрын
Worth noting that accounts can be biased by talking up the bravery of the opponent to make your own actions look better.
@jonathanbetenbender307
@jonathanbetenbender307 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheHaighus True, but I stand by us being more biased today (narrative: one side is absolutely bad and the other is really good with a few bad actors).
@atom8248
@atom8248 2 жыл бұрын
Well it was a request for help, making it seem like you're winning wouldn't exactly be advantageous.
@Snagabott
@Snagabott 2 жыл бұрын
@@jonathanbetenbender307 This is internal communication, not necessarily intended for public consumption. If the enemy is "brave" (ie. will stand and fight, even when confronted with experienced regulars), it is important for the sovereign to know this. This is the kind of respect that means you will not underestimate them on the battlefield. Keep in mind, though, that if they were considered pirates, they most likely still should count themselves lucky if they escaped being executed, and were still considered despicable scum and "enemies of all mankind" (as it would be phrased a few centuries later).
@jonathanbetenbender307
@jonathanbetenbender307 2 жыл бұрын
@@Snagabott That is an excellent point, so I didn't chose the best example make that comment on... that aside in the modern era I think our representation of the enemy is like a caricature of propaganda.
@dylandepetro4187
@dylandepetro4187 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for another interesting and educational video. :) Side note. I never even heard about this battle. So now I know something new thanks to you. 👍
@lopcaarald5161
@lopcaarald5161 2 жыл бұрын
The video should be named : Debunking the Myths about The Battle of Cagayan Note: There wasn't tercios, only spanish soldiers, and the great number were nativeamericans from Nueva España.
@spiffyracc
@spiffyracc 2 жыл бұрын
Kings and Generals just did a video on this.
@shaider1982
@shaider1982 2 жыл бұрын
Yup, that was an interesting video
@celeridad6972
@celeridad6972 2 жыл бұрын
@@crevetta6128 same here lol
@champadragon9535
@champadragon9535 2 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j6yklbdpxNLbmpc.html Watch this from a Filipino historian.
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
They also tried to undermine SPanish credibility at every turn which makes them hypocrites since they don't apply this same standard for British nor Japanese victories. The anti-Spanish prejudice is evident. People who want the truth don't hide their bias. They do.
@chrisjarvis2287
@chrisjarvis2287 2 жыл бұрын
Had always heard that it was a band of Wako vs the Spanish. Most of the Wako being Chinese.
@sergioriggio1769
@sergioriggio1769 2 жыл бұрын
But apparently the Japanese were in charge
@voltgaming2213
@voltgaming2213 2 жыл бұрын
@@sergioriggio1769 Japanese were the leaders in pirate but they were not majority it was multi ehenic
@ernstschloss8794
@ernstschloss8794 2 жыл бұрын
@@voltgaming2213 And so where the Spanish...only the leaders were Spaniard. Most soldiers would have been american creoles and philippine troops. It was no "Tercio" by any mean.
@dirkauditore8413
@dirkauditore8413 2 жыл бұрын
@@ernstschloss8794 Its so disappointing that so many events of history are misrepresented and nothing really is like we thought it was.
@Stone_Cold_Steve_Autisim
@Stone_Cold_Steve_Autisim 2 жыл бұрын
Another great summation and conclusions drawn based on facts and logic. Thanks again for bringing illumination to a fantastical story.
@aletaschulz1108
@aletaschulz1108 2 жыл бұрын
Love your research andogic way of debunking exaggerations of events and putting them in a more realistic and logical contexts. Good job, my friend!🤗💚
@ThePeteriarchy
@ThePeteriarchy 2 жыл бұрын
A huge chunk of our history classes here in the Philippines is centered around the Spanish colonization of this country for over 300 years. In that span of time, a lot's happened. Very significant events. I think the presence of over a thousand Japanese pirates in Cagayan ALONE during that time would have been notable enough to warrant at least some passing mention, even before delving into the ridiculousness of 50 or 60 soldiers beating that many. This is just absolutely hilarious lmao
@ViincenttB
@ViincenttB 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah. Never heard of this during history class in the Philippines. These articles are just trolling gullible people
@voidempire2174
@voidempire2174 2 жыл бұрын
Don’t be so sure. The Middle East and Africa has hundreds of years and in some cases millennium long periods that are completely ignored. And this is during similar timelines (1st century AD and on)
@MoreEvilThanYahweh
@MoreEvilThanYahweh 2 жыл бұрын
I do recall that there was a significant naval battle between a whole fleet of Chinese pirates against the Spanish garrison, with the latter heavily outnumbered. The pirate lord was Li-something. The samurai vs. tercio thing is new to me and sounds dubious.
@ImTheMariner
@ImTheMariner 2 жыл бұрын
@@voidempire2174 I'm from the middle east, and I know our history, but it's hardly ever mentioned at all, makes me think it's being done on purpose tbh.
@jwhippet8313
@jwhippet8313 2 жыл бұрын
60 soldiers can easily kill thousands of attackers. The Americans did it in Mogadishu. To see if it were possible, you'd have to first find out to what kind of air support the Conquistadors had access.
@nachhause656
@nachhause656 2 жыл бұрын
I've never heard of this event. So awesome. thx 4 the vid.
@zubei
@zubei 2 жыл бұрын
Grazie once again, for an another interesting video!
@ahha623
@ahha623 2 жыл бұрын
When you brought up the japanese using the pirates. I remember reading that the Spanish had a plan to use the pirates in a invasion of China.
@Jake-dh9qk
@Jake-dh9qk 2 жыл бұрын
AKA privateers, or 17th century economic terrorists.
@juanmolinafernandez3983
@juanmolinafernandez3983 2 жыл бұрын
I like this video in the part of the samurai, but the part of the spanish... Well you had a lot of misconceptions. In fact, I've fought for years to try to introduce to the real combat of Cagayán, and you had a great mistake (forgivable one because I understand that that's not your especialty in historic times). Well, first fact. The Spanish in the Phillipines were not tercio soldiers. Never were. Thats because the tercios were only used in Europe and North Africa (with the exception of the Albuquerque Tercio, created in America to fight the Araucanians indians). The soldiers in Phillipines at the time were semi-profesional troops recruited from adventurers, mainly from the recently conquered territories of Mexico (in fact, most of the soldiers who fougth in the spanish side were born in Mexico, sons fron the conquistador and sons of the indian allies of Cortés, especially tlaxcala indians) being only the officers from the iberian Peninsula. We must say that they also had mostly Tagalo warriors and oarsmen (that also fought) who worked for Spain at the moment. They were not the "elite" soldiers from Europe, even when some (mostly the officers) served in Europe some time. But, what is clear is that they used superior tactics (the know how to use harquebuse and musket fire more efficiently) and made good use of their superior technology (mosly the artillery of the galleys they had). Some points: The spanish pike were no longer than 4 meters. This is because usually the people mislead the correct measure of a span (the one of wikipedia its from XVIII century). The preferred weapon of the spanish were the harquebuse always. When there was more pikes than arquebuse was mainly by the imposibility to get more of them. Except for this things, good video. You do a great work, keep it up.
@huntclanhunt9697
@huntclanhunt9697 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome info! Thanks! I always wondered, did the Spanish use their pikes in the Americas as well? I imagine marching through the terrain such as jungle or Forrest would be hard to do.
@juanmolinafernandez3983
@juanmolinafernandez3983 2 жыл бұрын
@@huntclanhunt9697 It depends of the campaing and period of time. Not all Mexico were great jungles. In the early expeditions, most of spanish conquistadores used the combination of castillian spear and shield (mostly rotellas and adargas), but we know Cortés created a corps of indian allied pikemen to figth the expedition of Pánfilo de Narváez, created to take Cortés prisioner. Also, with the "europeization" of América, the spanish and indian rebels (as the araucanians, for example) used pikes as in Europe. We could say that against indians with traditional weapons, the spanish tended to use shorter spears and shields, but against enemies with "european" way of figth, they used pika&shot tactics. One example of that were the "dragones de cuera", a especial cavalry group created to protect the actual south of the USA when that territory was spanish. In the XVIII and early XIX century used adarga shields and lances because were the best weapons against apache and comanche, their main enemies there.
@huntclanhunt9697
@huntclanhunt9697 2 жыл бұрын
@@juanmolinafernandez3983 Never heard of a Castillian Spear. Adarga.. Is that the leather moorish type shield that looked sort of heart shaped?
@Altrantis
@Altrantis 2 жыл бұрын
@@huntclanhunt9697 A lot of the territories the spanish conquered in the americas were kind of deserts. A lot of Mexico, Peru and Chile are desert, and the places that were densely forested were still mostly tamed by the locals. It's not like these were virgin lands, they'd been inhabited for thousands of years.
@Altrantis
@Altrantis 2 жыл бұрын
@@juanmolinafernandez3983 While they called them Araucanians, the term refers to a small town in coastal southern central Chile called Arauco, their actual name is Mapuche. They're still a thorn in the side for the non-native population XD
@custink22
@custink22 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Loved the break down.
@greatdays7050
@greatdays7050 2 жыл бұрын
Was waiting for this
@BushidoIslander8689
@BushidoIslander8689 2 жыл бұрын
Love my country being featured on Metatron's channel
@marcello7781
@marcello7781 2 жыл бұрын
My first approach to the debunking of that battle was through that same blog, Gunsen History. After reading the extensive and interesting article I was wishing someone could make something like that but as a video. I guess Metatron made my wish come true.
@bdavis7801
@bdavis7801 Жыл бұрын
Thank you, that was interesting! I'd not heard of this.
@jjt1881
@jjt1881 2 жыл бұрын
I have read the accounts in Spanish, and I agree with your assessment, although I calculate a little higher number of Waco; perhaps 300. In any case, it is no small feat for 60 soldiers to defeat 300 pirates. It is a 1 to 5 ratio.
@WolfLykaios
@WolfLykaios 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly, it is an impressive feat regardless, so there is absolutely no reason to embellish the details of what actually happened so much.
@Duke_of_Lorraine
@Duke_of_Lorraine 2 жыл бұрын
I guess they tried to capture the Black Ship in Shogun II and still haven't recovered from having lost nearly their entire navy in the process.
@KyoushaPumpItUp
@KyoushaPumpItUp 2 жыл бұрын
Wasn't the Black Ship in Shogun 2 Portuguese?
@MDD77777
@MDD77777 2 жыл бұрын
The black ship actually existed. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nossa_Senhora_da_Gra%C3%A7a_incident
@Altrantis
@Altrantis 2 жыл бұрын
@@MDD77777 There wasn't one black ship. All portuguese ships that they built in their indian colonies were black because of the wood they used there. Most European ships that reached Japan were black.
@pragma5282
@pragma5282 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, and historically accurate, as always. Spanish Tercios were a formidable war machine. Probably they'd had carried a couple of "culebrinas" which were thin light canions used on land or sea that could shoot shrapnel and gravel from the flanks. I know of the incident, and of course those were no samurai, and half of them would had flee after witnesing the first blast of firepower, followed by the voracity and killing efficiency of the swordsmen and pikemen advancing quickly in a mist of smoke. The guilds of asian pirates, while they could outnumber the tercios 5 to 1 in this type of squirmishes, they would have surrender fairly quickly, or be keen to negociate after losing a few men, since they were no army, and surely they'd prefered to stay alive. The spanish were pragmatic and always chose to make allies rather than enemies among the native factions. That was their conquering "style": Show your enemy how ruthless you can be for a minute, and sit on a table to drink with them the next, as if nothing happened. That's why so few "conquistadores" and a few, armed to the teeth tercio companies could grab so much land in just 40 years. In any case, the spanish respected this asian fighters, since they actually recruited soldiers in the Philippines to fight against the turks in the mediterranean.
@goodaimshield1115
@goodaimshield1115 Жыл бұрын
There's no mention of any tercio, and we know Spain did not send tercio units outside Europe. I honestly have no idea why everyone, including Methatron, is assuming the 40-60 garrison soldiers were tercios. All evidence indicates the opposite, and there's not source that ever mentions it. Only once did Spain create (not sent) a tercio outside Europe, and that was in Chile to fight against the Araucanos.
@rocobalboa1826
@rocobalboa1826 11 ай бұрын
@@goodaimshield1115 así fue
@rocobalboa1826
@rocobalboa1826 11 ай бұрын
@@goodaimshield1115 tampoco en esa época existe un barco llamado Fragata
@ancientgamer3645
@ancientgamer3645 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome! As always.
@edspace.
@edspace. 2 жыл бұрын
Really good video.
@CrispyOldMan
@CrispyOldMan 2 жыл бұрын
I'm Filipino and I've heard of this battle but never actually did any research on it so I'm glad you're making video on it.
@metatronyt
@metatronyt 2 жыл бұрын
My pleasure and thanks!
@iz560
@iz560 2 жыл бұрын
Even being Spanish I knew that the numbers were exaggerated and that the "Japanese" were pirates and not samurai. I find this video very interesting, thanks for the information.
@alvarorodriguez1592
@alvarorodriguez1592 2 жыл бұрын
Even being Spanish? Wtf? XD
@iz560
@iz560 2 жыл бұрын
@@alvarorodriguez1592 Are you spanish too? 😂😂😂
@ganonstonebreaker4231
@ganonstonebreaker4231 2 жыл бұрын
@@iz560 Mean technically they were Ronin, lord-less Samurai. Supply was shit, but the training was still there.
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
Samurais who lost in Japanese wars would, if surviving, flee to southern realms like Siam where many Japanese mercenaries worked. So when Thailand had samurais working, why wouldn't Luzón?
@DaReaperZ
@DaReaperZ Жыл бұрын
@@ganonstonebreaker4231 According to what I've read the pirates were (of course) not made up entirely of ronin, but other rabble as well such as untrained peasants and criminals.
@joselorenzoamorin2904
@joselorenzoamorin2904 2 жыл бұрын
I just discovered your channel. You're awesome dude. More power to you! Greetings from Manila, Philippines.
@emperorconstantine1.361
@emperorconstantine1.361 2 жыл бұрын
Could you please a few videos on the Conquistadors? Like 1 video on the major conquistadors leaders and expeditions? Another on the weapons and armor choices, and maybe another on the types of recruits and their training?
@alicelund147
@alicelund147 2 жыл бұрын
"Only one side of the story". Most history about the Roman Empire is just that. Isn't that quite common in historical research?
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
He's a hypocrite. See my video refuting this one.
@JustSpectre
@JustSpectre 2 жыл бұрын
The history is written by victors. Or at least those who wrote it down. And in case of Roman Empire, no one living north of Alps used writing so, yeah, it had to be one sided. On the other hand it would be interesting to have Carthagian, Greek Levantine and Egyptian point of view on this matter.
@dirkauditore8413
@dirkauditore8413 2 жыл бұрын
Lul, he might be a bit biased
@michaelschumacher3869
@michaelschumacher3869 2 жыл бұрын
I remember the profesor Luis Medina talking about the aztecs meeting japanese speaking in spanish....in Acapulco
@Templarium
@Templarium 2 жыл бұрын
Manila Galeon. The Tlaxcala went with the Spaniards all the way to conquer the Philipines and the north of Mexico.
@michaelschumacher3869
@michaelschumacher3869 2 жыл бұрын
@astronomically anomaly lmao..just yesterday someone Tell me about that Channel.😄
@p.s.9658
@p.s.9658 2 жыл бұрын
Those Spanish loquillos...
@sergiogonzalez2611
@sergiogonzalez2611 2 жыл бұрын
pretty informative video, thank you
@gbear8207
@gbear8207 2 жыл бұрын
This is a very well researched documentary!
@emmanuelcolar7032
@emmanuelcolar7032 2 жыл бұрын
Just when I was finding more info about this battle...The Metatron arrived! Thankkk youuu
@KalNertea
@KalNertea 2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff! As a kid I was told that Europeans came to Japan and every one swordsman was able to kill tens of samurais because of superior martial skills. Now I understand where this myth comes from. Thanks for giving me tool to debunk future claims like this :) I was very fascinated with clash of cultures when Japan was discovered by Europe. Maybe you could explore this topic more? Perhaps maybe some analysis of James Clavell's "Shogun" and "Gai-jin"? I think it's very interesting how he is portraing relationships between drastically different nations
@alunrogers3525
@alunrogers3525 2 жыл бұрын
Great video.
@frankhainke7442
@frankhainke7442 Жыл бұрын
Good job. Thank you.
@yomauser
@yomauser 2 жыл бұрын
As Rafa like to say "There're a few things to take into consideration": First: There was no Tercios in Cagayan, only some officers like Carrion could have been part of a Tercio in the past, but it's doubtful. The Spanish there were a private company from Nova Spain, that being said the so-called Spanish in Filipina were mostly conformed by Tlaxcalan allies, also mestizos and creoles inmates, all known as Spanish Americans. According to the author Canales, there would have been only few more than 5 European soldiers in Cagayan at that time. Second: There also were the soldiers from the San Iusepe along with those of the Capitana galley, we could say more than 100 soldiers plus few sailors. And according to Canales, the pirates were no more than 300 in total during all the events, the rest were their relatives. Third: there were no mentions of Japanese armament used by the wakos, most were from Portuguese industry as mentioned by the sources, or native made cannons. And forth: The Ryukyu kingdom pirates were the only ones with ships capable to travel to Filipina, the Japanese ships could only travel short distances.
@Rafael_Mena_Ill
@Rafael_Mena_Ill 2 жыл бұрын
You know, just to add to your comment: Indigenous allies does not automatically imply Tlaxcallans, and the sources do not specify ethnic origin. The men serving in Cagayan could have just as easily been Mexica (aztec), Chalca, Texcocan, Tepanec, Purepecha, Tepexi, or any number of allies from the many cities and kingdoms that encompassed Mesoamerica at the time. Not everything is Tlaxcala.
@yomauser
@yomauser 2 жыл бұрын
​@@Rafael_Mena_Ill The "indios conquistadores" were majority Tlaxcalans as they were the only who signed a true alliance with Spain with the Tlaxcala canvas. And after numerous supportive expeditions and wars they negotiated their political position directly with the king of Spain trying to get autonomy and privileges. The other allies were the Tarascan, but those participate only on few expeditions inside of Mexico. And most of the Mexicas left were basically subyugated and were only given the political role of maintaining the cities. And we could say the same when we speak of Spaniards-Castilians, knowing that some of them were from other regions, like Portugal, Italy, Germany, but the majority were from Spain.
@Rafael_Mena_Ill
@Rafael_Mena_Ill 2 жыл бұрын
@@yomauser This is factually incorrect. Texcoco, Huexotzingo, Quauquechollan, Tepexi, and many, many others, signed a true alliance with Spain within their own legally binding documents, and negotiated political positions under the King of Spain, to varying degree's of success, though ultimatly the plan backfired as disease crippled native bargaining power. Even those subjugated into a position of vassalage managed to negotiate means through which they could advance politically. The Mexica, Atzcapotzalca and Xochimilca for example, were instrumental in funding colonies in Guatemala, maya found themselves in the Andes, zapotecs and Mixtecs in the Yucatan, and so forth. The natives "accompanying" (quotations to adress the implication that they were in any way a minority in these expeditions, they were very much not.) the europeans were extremely diverse, and it's likely that a great many natives and mestizos that were in Cagayan were not Tlaxcallans themselves.
@goodaimshield1115
@goodaimshield1115 2 жыл бұрын
@@Rafael_Mena_Ill You are right, but most probably they were a mix of mexica and otomi, and most probably tlaxcalans as well. I mean, of course they could be from any ethnic group, but that means there could be tlaxcaltecas as well, and given they did go with the Spanish in several explorations, I don't think it's a ridiculous idea to imagine they were most probably one of the main groups to be in Filipinas at the time, though quite obviously not the only one.
@marctempler3250
@marctempler3250 2 жыл бұрын
The Spanish sources never say they are samurai. Just pirates...and pirates do not wish to die in battle with anyone if they can avoid. So a group of determined Spaniards could defeat in detail a much greater force of pirates whose hearts are not in the fight.
@SaurusWarriorSotek
@SaurusWarriorSotek 2 жыл бұрын
Metatron saludos desde el nuevo mundo haha I love your channel, I learn english just to see and read about history, and your channel is in my top 5 favorites :D
@prnzssLuna
@prnzssLuna 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent debunking, again. Love your channel.
@silverhand9965
@silverhand9965 2 жыл бұрын
You'd think there wouldn't be a need to tell people that "60 soldiers defeated 1000 soldiers in direct combat with ease" is kinda sus, but here we are
@EricDaMAJ
@EricDaMAJ 2 жыл бұрын
It’s all in the visuals, a superficial knowledge of period military history, and a low understanding of the battle. If you imagine a bunch of katana wielding samurai vs. Tercios wielding long pikes, it sounds plausible. After all, samurai could never get close enough to hit the pikemen. And indeed, their weight of numbers and long swords would get in the way. Presumably they’d just exhaust themselves. Again, great visuals. But it all breaks down with the clarified facts the video shows. Plus battle reports tend to obfuscate one side’s errors, miscalculations, and failure while aggrandizing any successes. Meanwhile downplaying enemy successes.
@canemcave
@canemcave 2 жыл бұрын
a samurai could be a pirate, being a samurai does not prevent anyone from acts of piracy. Ronin were samurai without a master so I don't see the issue there
@wimferpeh2344
@wimferpeh2344 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting topic, never heard of it. Great explanation
@Joel-xl2nt
@Joel-xl2nt 2 жыл бұрын
Man it is so satisfying to hear metatron pronounce TERCIO correctly
@metatronyt
@metatronyt 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@RCZM64
@RCZM64 2 жыл бұрын
A pirate encounter and request of more development for a far-off colony, turned into a novel-comicbook-internet meme, inflated by the media and blown off proportions, needs debunking. History receiving the usual treatment nowadays.
@javinavarro9080
@javinavarro9080 2 жыл бұрын
It is probably we (Spanish) forgot 8.000 auxiliar soldier from philippines and Tzacaltecas from America. They were pirates, you are ok.
@a.d.samano7873
@a.d.samano7873 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this Metatron. I am curious about this too as I'm from the Philippines.
@willmosse3684
@willmosse3684 2 жыл бұрын
Useful video, thanks. I have seen reference to this tiny number of European soldiers (sometimes even described as akin to knights) defeating 1,000 Samurai in multiple KZfaq comment sections (including probably yours), often in I think ‘knightly sword v katana’ videos. So good to get the real deal laid out!
@odiaranda2756
@odiaranda2756 2 жыл бұрын
dont forget about the Tlaxcaltecas, who helped the Spanish to defeat the Aztecs, they were also sended to fight against samurais in the Philipines
@PackHunter117
@PackHunter117 2 жыл бұрын
The whole idea that Aztecs with the Spanish fought Samurai in the Philippines is insane. Would love to see a hypothetical battle between Aztec and Samurai warriors.
@kaltaron1284
@kaltaron1284 2 жыл бұрын
@@PackHunter117 Depending on the time period the Samurai have a serious equipment advantage. The Aztecs are more used to jungle warfare which could be useful.
@odiaranda2756
@odiaranda2756 2 жыл бұрын
@@PackHunter117 it wasnt the Aztecs bro, it was the Tlaxcaltecas; they fought against the Aztecs, helping the Spanish Tercios, and they also helped them against the japanese .
@PackHunter117
@PackHunter117 2 жыл бұрын
@@kaltaron1284 True. And they could scare the Japanese with their human screaming mimicking whistles.
@PackHunter117
@PackHunter117 2 жыл бұрын
@@odiaranda2756 Oh yeah. My mistake.
@titocristobal5573
@titocristobal5573 2 жыл бұрын
I love that the people who wrote these posts on FB regarding event clearly never researched what they were saying. Hell, even from just playing Age of Empires, you'd know that the "1000 samurai" is very false because the Wokou are clearly pirates.
@canemcave
@canemcave 2 жыл бұрын
Plenty of high ranking officers in plenty of countries lived their lives as pirates during that age that was in fact the golden age of piracy. People like: Sir Henry Morgan, Sir Francis Drake, Hayreddin Barbarossa, Turgut Reis, just to mention a few. To dismiss their martial competent simply because someone called them pirates is an extremely poor argument, as a matter of fact military orders of knights like the Knights of Saint Stephen and the Knights of Malta took part in acts of piracy. The 1000 pirates, could have well been professional soldiers
@Svorty
@Svorty 2 жыл бұрын
Honestly never heard of this incident but it's very interesting to see how two rather simple description of events can lead to someone later on proclaiming with utter certainty that something like that happened exactly as described despite the letters giving contradictory information on couple of things. Thank you very much for this video, both educational as well as very entertaining.
@a.jr.2947
@a.jr.2947 2 жыл бұрын
Could you produce some content regard to the Triple Alliance War (South America, 1864-1870)?
@freedomloverusa3030
@freedomloverusa3030 2 жыл бұрын
What a terrible war.
@a.jr.2947
@a.jr.2947 2 жыл бұрын
@@freedomloverusa3030 Indeed, it was the biggest conflict in America Latina's history; counts over 440.000 deaths; 90% of the paraguayan men above 20 were killed (the country had to change their laws and accept polygamy after the war).
@georgebenta3435
@georgebenta3435 2 жыл бұрын
8:16 The "Indians in the galley" are the Filipino crew members. The Spanish calls the natives Indio.
@johnnymechavez429
@johnnymechavez429 2 жыл бұрын
some of them came from Mexico. maybe it's a mixed crew.
@liveinlight5575
@liveinlight5575 2 жыл бұрын
@@johnnymechavez429 no not true the Spanish called the filipinos Indios too
@goodaimshield1115
@goodaimshield1115 2 жыл бұрын
@@liveinlight5575 Yes, you're right. But there were probably a lot of natives from America as well. After all, Filipinas was ruled from New Spain (Mexico), not from Spain, so most SPanairds were actually Novohispano, or Spanish Americans, most of which were mixed and carried with them hundreds of American indian allies. But you're right, I think some people read indian and automatically think of Americans, Filipinos were indians too, actually, it was the Spaniards born in FIlipinas the ones to be called filipinos.
@liveinlight5575
@liveinlight5575 2 жыл бұрын
@@goodaimshield1115 this is way to early in the colonization of the Philippines the Spanish used almost exclusively native filipinos in their conquest and the native Mexicans they brought in the Philippines are very few keep in mind the Philippines was well populated even in those times they used mainly Cebuano and Kapangpagan peoples because they were loyal and specially the Kapangpagan are great at shooting gun
@javiervicedo4201
@javiervicedo4201 Жыл бұрын
Yes and consider great soldiers
@billmiller4972
@billmiller4972 2 жыл бұрын
Just placed Kings & Generals' video on the battle in my playlist. Looking very much forward to compare the two.
@messiaspereira6232
@messiaspereira6232 2 жыл бұрын
Excelente vídeo once again.
@karliikaiser3800
@karliikaiser3800 2 жыл бұрын
This is like they myth with 300 Spartans against the persian forces. The other greek troops are seldom mentioned...
@sangralknight3031
@sangralknight3031 2 жыл бұрын
The 1000 or so other greeks were a reserve and support force. Greeks liked to only mention their hoplites, much like rome only mentioned their legions.
@scarecrow2097
@scarecrow2097 2 жыл бұрын
@@sangralknight3031 there were also around 5000 ( the force was almost 8000 based on modern and Roman claims and 6000 based on Herodotus who is actaully the least reliable because of his mixing of fantasy and historical) of these troops that were city state hoplites. Spartans were the frontliners at the start yes, it doesn't mean they didn't tire and didn't switch ranks with the others, even during the first day.
@sangralknight3031
@sangralknight3031 2 жыл бұрын
@@scarecrow2097 interesting.
@alvarorodriguez1592
@alvarorodriguez1592 2 жыл бұрын
300 x 6 packs = mutually assured destruction
@gdopblp
@gdopblp 2 жыл бұрын
and although it is true that the thirds were made up of both Spaniards and soldiers from territories at the service of Spain, the truth is that the combat tactics and formations of pikes and archbuses were Spanish and almost always instructed and commanded by Spaniards
@raymondmorad6948
@raymondmorad6948 2 жыл бұрын
I saw another takedown of this battle not long ago and your assessment comports well w.that.
@ltjamescoopermason8685
@ltjamescoopermason8685 2 жыл бұрын
Always educational entertainment and a great video.
@burner27
@burner27 2 жыл бұрын
So conservation of ninjutsu isn't a real life law!? Damn you, Shonen manga!
@jorgec.a3123
@jorgec.a3123 2 жыл бұрын
As a spanish all the posts and texts I read about this basically talk about how a few Spanish ships encountered a settlement of Japanese by a river and defeating them. Never saw anyone talking about thousands against 40 or 60 but rather and encounter between two small groups. I didn't even think that the event would be relevant enough for the anglos to be reporting on it but seems I was wrong. Thanks for the video metatron!
@scintillam_dei
@scintillam_dei 2 жыл бұрын
Ve mi vídeo refutando a este mentiroso.
@yasue9375
@yasue9375 2 жыл бұрын
@@scintillam_dei Es un weeaboo italiano que se cree la leyenda negra. Todos los anglófilos de los comentarios les da rabia que el imperio español fue el primero en vencer a japoneses y chinos, además de dejar por los suelos la katana como espada definitiva que tanto glorifican y que se imponga la ropera toledana.
@WallNutBreaker524
@WallNutBreaker524 Жыл бұрын
Metatron brings up good points....but the "60 Spanish soldiers fought 1000 Japanese Samurai" still stands , even if it wasn't samurai or wasn't all samurai , such a thing still is possible , look at the Hashashins of Arabia , the Indians or 60 Sikhs , Battle of Yultong where 700 Filipinos defeated 40,000 Chinese soldiers and so on , these things DO happen ,it's not impossible , this is why I learned not to question movies/anime too much haha , I always was skeptical of James Bond , but after learning about "the most dangerous man in Europe" by Thoughty2 , I believe 1 man can turn the tides of war , don't know what's gotten Metatron so riled up.
@xiuhcoatl4830
@xiuhcoatl4830 Жыл бұрын
Normally when that happens is elite forces against larger militias or untrained poorly equipped troops.
@shan9usfc
@shan9usfc 2 жыл бұрын
Some country from the East: "Damn these pirates are hard to get rid off!" Spain: "Hold my cerbeza."
@MrNyagasu
@MrNyagasu 2 жыл бұрын
Another great reason to not trust Wikipedia.
@endless2239
@endless2239 2 жыл бұрын
if it involves katanas or politics, Wikipedia gets all over the place very quickly lol
@LordVader1094
@LordVader1094 2 жыл бұрын
@@endless2239 You're very right about that lol
@insertnamehere001
@insertnamehere001 2 жыл бұрын
I stopped trusting Wikipedia when I saw the monocle article had its photographs removed because the editor didn't like the fact most of them were 20th century Germans.
@jeffreygao3956
@jeffreygao3956 2 жыл бұрын
And they're other reasons to trust them.
@jakechua6360
@jakechua6360 2 жыл бұрын
Wiki accuracy is no 100% but most of what written in wiki are base in written records in both asian and European side
@BaronessAishi055
@BaronessAishi055 Жыл бұрын
The Wokou pirates weren't samurai, they were just pirates.
@Josergr
@Josergr Ай бұрын
And ronin
@someone56243
@someone56243 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting, but I'm glad you did your analysis haha
@sebastijansekol6710
@sebastijansekol6710 Жыл бұрын
Top, thx! Need to share 🤩😎
@Nacho2002b
@Nacho2002b 2 жыл бұрын
I watched this video about Cagayan, from an organisation called Heroes of Baler. Basically, they may have been about 300 waku against a force of about 100 Spaniards, where Spaniards means there were about 5-6 Peninsular Spaniards, including Carrion, about 30-40 Spanish creoles from Nueva España and... wait for it... about 60-70 Tlaxcalan pikemen. Yes, pikemen. They were regular Spanish soldiers...
@neoteraflare
@neoteraflare 2 жыл бұрын
I know the mentioned blog. I found it in a comment under a smithing video. They have a fantastic 4 part smithing article about sources of iron in japan, processing the iron and forging swords and armor. No mystic bullshit just pure reality yet still interesting.
@Veridiano02
@Veridiano02 2 жыл бұрын
My godness. The "60 tercios vs 1000 samurais" comes from a comic, mate. It's like saying "300 movies isn't accurate". We know. I mean... Yeah. Pirates were just a bunch of people from the area joined to raid nearby villages. We get it.
@batilarchives
@batilarchives 2 жыл бұрын
This is the first time i have heard about this battle. I am from Philippines. Thanks Metatron!
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