nick h 😂😂😂😂

😂😂😂✌️

Only 2 more sleeps til Xmas😂

Right worse video ive seen lol i glad i wasnt trying to learn from this 🤦🏽‍♂️ lol

helpful comments. 😂😂😂

He did say it doesn't give added power AND why that is.... rewatch around the 50 second mark in the video.

He said no power gains

Were you picking your nose for the entire video? 🤣

I run a built vq35de NA. I use WMI and have "street tuned" for it. I can't give you an answer on how much power gain you will get but it is noticable. I am running around 12:1 compression with AFR around 12.7:1 with fat sports (between gears) at 11.2:1(can use a little work). Intake air temp drop is nice on hot days. I also have WMI on my boosted car, boost temps dropped a lot, timing advance is much higher. So basically what I am saying is I have experience with WMI on boosted and na setups. Both of them see gains when tuned. For your application however I would just go e85. Much more reliable. Don't get me wrong I like WMI but it's just another thing that can go bad and something else to maintain.

yaaaaaaaas!! :)

Get a ship engine and cover it in superchargers

Me too

I'm not familiar with how far AMG takes their tuning, so I cannot say yes or no that water/meth will give you more gains. I would recommend talking with your tuner and ask their recommendation. If you wanted to just use it for consistency (keep heat soak in check because you run it hard at the track) then you just need a tuner to compensate for it. Meth does have a high octane, but that's at 100% concentration and when sprayed into the intake, it's only a small percentage of the total fuel going into the cylinder so you're only increasing octane by a few points. But, it does in general provide increased octane, but nothing like race gas. If you ran methanol in your gas tank as your primary fuel, then that would be a different story.

your tuner wants your money. get an ebay turbo.

for ambient temps that high, it would help, yes.

🐂💩

Im sure its possible, howver E85 and other ethanol containing fuels already burn slower and cooler then regular pump gas. Im not certian, but intuition tells me it would run worse unless tuned for it. The nessecity of methanol when running E85 is questionable, Because E85 runs cooler it has some knock resistance.

Yeah that's with a tune and advanced timing but the kit itself will not give you any HP

The kit will give you HP, just not a large amount without tuning for it.

I'll be tuning this weekend on straight Methanol injection. I'll let you know what the gains are.

Not an outlier, your setup had a need for it.

tortatorres without a tune is why

Post proof. Anyone can run their gums!!!

@@mikewoda319 He may be on to something. Many modern cars will push the timing a little bit when you fuel up and try to max out timing for whatever you have in the tank. My cruze LS 1.8 has low and high octane maps and an AEM kit on it as well and when I ran water injection on the stock tune it allowed the car to use the 93 high octane map running 87 in the tank due to the knock suppression of the water injection system. It may be that he was running in a knock limited part of the maps and water injection allowed the stock tune to take full advantage of the available timing

Thanks for the feedback. You bring up a good point, I probably could have been a bit clearer but the info is still correct, even in your situation. "Unless you're tuning for it, or your build already has a need for it" - Your build already has a need for meth, so you would see benefits from it.

Master Chief 00117 youre almost right. When you inject methenol it increases your knock resistance because it cools and supplys more fuel. So basically water/methenol is a fuel, so your ecu wont actually add more fuel. It will sense that the mixure it very rich and it will add less fuel.

@Master Chief 00117 I'm not so sure you understand how ECU's work. The ECU has fuel trims, this is correct. The point of the fuel trims is to add or remove fuel to meet the expected stoichiometric value and it does this based on the inputs from the O2 sensors. However, the fuel trims only go so far and dumping even a 20% mix into the system will cause the AFRs to run rich and no, the ECU will not compensate for that because it would cause the fuel trims to go so far out of range that it gives up. How it "gives up" depends on the manufacturer. Sometimes it does nothing, sometimes it'll throw a code. In my experience, it mostly just quietly gives up. As far as the rpm and timing advance, the ECU is not going to give you any additional timing. It;s set at the factory. It isn't just magically going to add timing. It will certainly remove timing, and it will add the timing back in (what it removed), but it has no idea that you just injected meth, so now it can advance timing. What exactly do you think it would base that decision on? What sensors? Adding more fuel to the cylinders will cause richer AFRs and the ECU will compensate for it to a certain degree. Let's say that it was able to fully compensate for it. Where exactly does the power come from? Since in this example the ECU has fully compensated for the AFRs, you're back to the pre-configured AFR. Not leaner, not richer, so what have you gained? Knock resistance? Ok, maybe, but please explain where the power comes from in doing that? If you're going to compare it to running 87 octane vs 93 octane, then you're showing your lack of understanding. The ECU uses knock sensors for a lot of reasons, but one is to make it safe to run 87 octane, and it does this by reducing timing advance (and sometimes adding fuel). There is no "gaining power" by switching to 93 octane, you're just letting the ECU run at it's pre-set settings without any reduction of performance. You wouldn't see a gain going from 93 to 110 octane. The engine doesn't increase RPM as a direct result of spraying water (or meth) into it and in fact, the engine will stumble if anything. And again, the decrease in air temperature will not result in any additional gains unless the air is already so hot that the ECU has already compensated in which case you're not gaining, you're just putting a band-aid on your mistake. And yes, I've done quite a lot of testing, both on my NA and turbo cars. I am well aware of what it does and does not do. I've spent countless hours data logging, street and dyno testing and talking with well respected tuners.

I never said a factory ECU did. I said they will still pickup the change in density and cooler temperature air! As it will change the timing and fuel ratio.. You start shoving 20 lbs of boost through it. You need a stand alone solution... Thank You

Master Chief 00117 You specifically said "today’s modern car".... meaning a factory ECM and factory boost pressure..... you just totally changed your opinion because you JUST GOT OWNED! Your second comment entirely contradicts your first..... thank you

most modern ecu's already advance timing based on intake temps, so a tune would give negligible gains on a daily setup.

Yeah if your running a naturally aspirated vehicle snow performance makes a maf kit that requires no tuning. It runs off the ecu and air intake temps.

1.4 rocco? Stock or tuned?

@@kylodean4424 its stage 2 but ive heard already that u gain mostly by already tuned cars

Christian Glen Castillo absolutely, you could even advance timing and add more boost (with a tune I recommend)and be more reliable and more protected from detonation than you were before.

It's best to put it 6-8 inches in front of the iat sensor, but that's not always possible. Some people use a throttle body spacer with an npt port and others use spray plates. If you're turbo with an electronic throttle body, then spraying after the throttle body is best to prevent damage to the throttle body.

All I did was arm the system and spray during dyno pulls and the first time it made over 50whp more. Then when I tuned for it, it ended up somewhere around 250whp off the alky injection system alone.

I have a C6Z w/ Novi 1500 and alki controls and it does keep timing from retarding and keeps the IAT’s colder. It definitely makes more power by itself. Also long term fuel trims may change with consistent use during closed loop.

Which part says the opposite of what you've seen? Meth makes no power unless it's tuned for. Plain and simple. Anyone who says otherwise is either mistaken, or has issues (resulting in loss of power) that require water/meth to fix.

Or is the Vendor.

3point8 Garage damm i guess my f10 that was dyno with meth injection without no tune is lying then... also the power difference i feel is all in my head...

You’re an idiot. Meth will make more power without changing anything. It will make loads more power when advancing the timing and a few other things.

Nice!

Joel Silva hes wrong this will make more power

Um, isn't this your setup? You specifically listed TCU & ECU "software" with a map for 93 octane (91 octane and WMI)? What exactly do you think tuning is? What do you think a map is? It's a tune specific to the type of fuel you're going to be running. Nice build, btw. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rsefgs6qmafYgGg.html 2013 Volkswagen GTI -APR Stage 3 GTX2867r -APR TCU & ECU Software -APR Intercooler -APR Carbon Fiber Intake -APR Catless Downpipe -APR RSC Catback Tires -Firehawk Indy 500 93 Octane Map (91 Octane Fuel W/ Water Methanol Injection)

If you're suggesting that you didn't specifically get tuned for WMI, then, as I stated in the video, your build had a need for it which is because you're running 91 octane on a 93 octane map and needed the meth to compensate.

3point8 Garage my 2016 Mustang GT picked up power without being tuned for it. How do I know. The car was tuned with 91 in the tank and water meth turned off. After the car was tuned and a dyno pull done it made 565rwhp. Then the meth was turned on and it made 585rwhp.

Cooler intake charge will lower EGTs so unless you're spraying more meth than water, you will likely LOWER your EGTs. If you're having EGT issues, it's more likely you're pushing the turbo past it's efficiency point, which is case in most SRT-4s. I had 2 NSRT-4s and 1 CSRT-4, all ran best times ON meth because it benefited GREATLY from it. But now I have a 335i and an Audi S5 and will install meth on both. 335i has a perfect setup for methanol injection with JB4 controlling it fully. However, S5 will have NO tune for meth. I will be spraying it because it will greatly reduce HEAT produced by the supercharger. So every subsequent pull will reduce power output because IATs will climb thru the roof. Spraying Water/meth will ensure that the computer doesn't rob power because of the heat.

Tell you what, you put that audi on the dyno and do before/after runs with and without WMI (no tuning) and if you don't lose power, I'll pay for your dyno session (up to $100). When all else is equal, yes, lower IATs can result in lower EGTs, but that's when it's properly setup and tuned. When you introduce a cooling mechanic like water, it slows the combustion process which is effectively the same as retarding timing. Retarding timing causes the combustion process to happen later, which means the combustion process is less complete when the exhaust valves are opening. It's basic tuning principals, retarding timing increases EGTs while advancing timing lower EGTs. Now, based on how large the engine is and the volume of liquid being injected, this can be anywhere from minimal to detrimental. You're debating benefits while the point of the video is that tuning is required to see gains from WMI. Even if you don't lose power untuned, you still won't see gains from keeping IATs lower. It isn't nitrous, so tuning is still required to see gains which, again, is the point of the video. Keeping IAT's in check can provide consistency of runs, but it comes at a cost unless it's properly setup and tuned for.

@@3point8 who won the bet???...

Manual adjustable timing systems...you mean a distributor? I'm not sure where you think I said NA can't make use of meth. I said putting a kit on a stock or even a FBO car is pointless and will NOT make any power without first tuning for it (yes, you MUST tune for it!) OR, your build already has a need for it. I never said an NA setup can't make use of it. I am aware of the efforts of manufacturers to use WMI in production cars. BMW has used it previously and recently used it in a few of their M series cars. And no, the cooler air temps will not improve anything unless the air temps are extremely high already, in which case you should seriously re-evaluate your intake system.

With regard to the timing system, I know what you're talking about. I've seen them, but never personally worked with one. But, as for the rest, you're telling me, that the molecules will split inside of the combustion chamber and that will allow us to use the added oxygen and hydrogen to make gains?

I'm not here to give you a lesson in the internal combustion engine. Bu let me explain it. It's nothing but a huge air pump. Air, Fuel, Spark and Compression. Wallah you make power. The denser the air mixture is. The more fuel you can add to that same volume of space. As only 20-25% of the fuel actually makes power. The rest is lost as heat. This is why Turbos can make use of that left over energy. The down side. It gets hot from all that left over heat to drive it. As the gas expands. This is why water\meth injection was used 80 years ago. It lowers the heat transfer of that same energy to a manageable range. Just like an AC compressor\condenser...The water acts as a transfer agent at combustion. A byproduct being hydrogen gas. www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae367.cfm Wallah.. Power! Other byproducts of water\meth is cooler running engine. Less carbon build up on the piston\valves. Lower emissions from a cleaner burn. Cleaner intake runners< NA really makes use of that one. As it prevents the fuel from pooling on the edges of the intake runners. As air is almost super sonic inside an intake. In some engines. It does reach super sonic levels. Why you get resonator effects www.abcm.org.br/anais/cobem/2013/PDF/852.pdf So yep. This is where math will make you money on race day. Trust me. I built engines for over 45 years. And no matter what you put on one. It's still just a huge ass air pump. That makes power. Class dismissed...

You are just flat out wrong about the water. Please show me testing where you can spray water (or even water and meth) and add more fuel, and result in making power. On an NA setup, you absolutely will not. Too rich and no way to get more air. On a FI car, it will require increasing the boost (or different turbo setup for more cfm). You're making it sound like water can be used like nitrous. It doesn't release the oxygen/hydrogen into the combustion chamber in a way that makes it usable. The water turns to steam, that's it. The molecules do not separate. Water will slow down the combustion process which is effectively like retarding the timing and I'm sure you know what that results in...lost power. It is possible to make power with water injection alone, but it requires tuning and tuning for water only is not the same as tuning for water/meth. Not only that, even with tuning, you aren't guaranteed to see any power gains with water/meth. I just tuned an NA car and a turbo car, both running 50/50 wmi. 0 gains on the NA car and a few hp on the turbo car. Please be careful not to read this as WMI will never give you any gains, because that's obviously not the case and has been proven otherwise. My point is, it's not guaranteed like everyone thinks. The benefits from lowering the air temps is not power, but consistency, safety and longevity. Any power gains from lowering the air temps would quickly be negated by the added weight of the meth tank. Sure, cleaning is a benefit, but it takes a long time to clean valves and even longer to clean pistons. Adding a kit to a new car, or a setup with clean valves/pistons can keep them clean. I'm not trying to be rude, but just because you bolted together some engine parts doesn't mean you understand how they work or how to make them work better. You're just propagating the misinformation that is rampant and the reason I started the channel. I only put out information that I have personally tested myself. I don't regurgitate what's found out on the internet or make up theories.

Because you're ignorant on how an engine makes power. This is how I know you're just making shit up. As any public schooled short bus rider. Knows what happens when the air gets thinner. And when it is more dense from just altitude changes.... So please take a course in the internal combustion engine. Molecular Engineering and Physics. That is all I got to say on the subject. As I charge people to make their engine make more power. It's not free or I go broke! Thank You.

lol, just because you don't like the info doesn't make it wrong. I assume you didn't actually watch the whole thing.