I dig that you said dig. 😅

@@surrendertoyahweh Don't get smart with me, whippersnapper!

Exactly why I like this channel.

It shouldn't be like that. John Wesley was quite clear on how this should be. He wrote a lot and has a commentary on the Bible.

Not much wrong with that, better to have a big tent than 100 different groups

I've forgotten the phrase, but part of what we teach is something like tolerance on nonessential matters. That, for example, would explain why there's no official position on the virgin birth. I consider this a good thing.

Methodist denominations

That is just the work of the spirit that breaks through dogmas because it is vast and ever-growing within hearts and minds that are growing in Christ. It cannot be contained within these little tribal sects. That's why there is so much schism within Protestantism in general. It's actually a good thing.

I thought that was the difference between a Baptist and a Presbyterian.

😂😂😂

That's a presbyterian that will talk to you bud

The Presbyterian manages the liquor store. The Episcopalian owns it.

I thought that wherever you find four Baptists you'll find a "fifth". Maybe that's why we don't really get together outside of church.🤔

In the USA it’s all rainbow flags and woman pastors now.

​@@KandiKloveri hate it. Im a methodist but my church has all the pride flags and a woman pastor. I go for holidays but i just study the bible on sunday because i dont want to be absorbed into that culture

I think it's allowed, but not necessarily taught

Methodism is historically paedobaptist, if people didn't do it then it was because they weren't in line with OG methodism

It's well established in the Methodist congregations around my area.

All the methodists I have known have only done infant baptism for generations, not counting converts. Methodists tend to call it "christening" and its usually done within 6 weeks of birth.

I thought it was essential to Methodist doctrine.

The first time I heard a singer at my church using prerecorded accompaniment, I said, "This is a church, not a karaoke bar."

Exactly!

Without liturgy, how would they even know what to do in a service? An egomaniac winging it? That's why liturgy is a prerequisite for me taking it seriously.

Why LOL?

All my chickens have turned to ducks 😆

Do you mean he would be in favor of inclusion if everyone seeking God and disappointed in those who want to exclude LGBT worshipers?

Yes. I think he would include the LBGT…just as Jesus was associated with sinners.

@@danieltang3985Christ included sinners who REPENT, not those who continue to sin. So no, He would have nothing to do with the bltgq+ movement.

​@@bobclift101Queer, etc., worshippers are welcome in any UMC or GMC church. PRACTICING homosexuals/bisexuals cannot be ministers or participate in the leadership of the church; same sex weddings will not be performed in the church. This policy changed recently and a number of churches, who remained UMC have gone against the book of discipline. The GMC churches maintain the original doctrine. It has nothing to do with keeping your community OUT. It has everything to do with refusing to accept the behavior.

It should be made clearer that it is the United Methodists that have the pro LGBT stuff going on. Many of the United Methodist Churches actually disaffiliated and became their own entity or joined another group, like the Global Methodist Church or others. The united Methodist’s churches stance on lgbt does not represent the stance of Methodist churches in general.

That's not true. Much of Methodism is arguably more Catholic than Anglicanism. Anglicanism has a Calvinist soteriology that is more at odds with Catholicism (read the 39 Articles).

There's a methodist church round the corner from my house, and there must be about 10 people at most I see going to it and they're all elderly. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it were to close within the near future

I would say the conversion experience is the key difference.

Good questions. The answer to most would be No (not quite, in some ways, maybe). 1) Hierarchy in church governance (Episcopalianism), there is no basic difference theoretically only in practice, it exists but it is toned down; the major difference arises in the supreme governing authority of the English Monarch in church affairs (mostly via the parliamentary selected government). 2) The number of sacraments, again no, there are two only .. with at times some ordinances (at times treated as equivalent to 'sacraments' by Anglicans; the major difference resting what is meant by a 'sacrament' e.g. church approved ritual acts made holy by Christ's command - the Catholic understanding being precluded, i.e. the mystery of a divine pledge by the Word to act according to His word, in Scripture or Tradition = made holy in a specific rite). 3) Conversion, as an unique emotional experience (rather than a rite of conviction, contrition, and confession, i.e. absolution, penance and amendment) is elevated to a higher, almost sacramental* extent, than is seen in among most Anglicans, but no; this emotion is welcomed, I suspect, rather than expected. ;o) * A sacramental, a particular channel of divine favour, aka grace, akin to though distinct from a 'Sacrament'.

I'm no theologian, but I know a little about this. The "meat" of the theological and ecclesial differences I'm aware of begins in the 6th paragraph. I'm a former Roman Catholic (RC) who is now an Episcopalian for all intents and purposes (making it official is just a matter of time). My mom and sister both work at a Methodist church, and I've attended services there. It may be different near you, but near me, Episcopal worship services are very similar but not identical to RC Masses. Much of the same language is used in a lot of the prayers. Methodists tend to be less liturgical than Episcopalians, but there is still some liturgy present in the Methodist churches I've been to. Episcopal bishops, priests, and deacons (all can be male or female) wear traditional clerical dress for worship services, while Methodist pastors (can be male or female) often wear a business suit or dress. Some may dress in a business casual style. Episcopalians and Methodists believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the bread and wine (grape juice is usually used in Methodist churches, while wine is used in Episcopal parishes). The bread and wine are called either Communion or the Eucharist in The Episcopal Church (TEC); the latter is another way to refer to a worship service in TEC. Methodists call it Communion or the Lord's Supper. Episcopalians have weekly communion, while Methodists usually have it monthly or quarterly. Neither TEC nor the United Methodist Church (UMC) believe in the RC concept of transubstantiation, preferring to leave how the bread and wine become the body and blood a mystery, yet often believing in the consubstantiation concept, with the bread and wine being present alongside the body and blood. As an aside, you should know that the UMC is currently in the process of splitting up into different denominations, mostly because of the same sex marriage issue. Word is that the UMC will permit same sex marriage while the Global Methodist Church (GMC) will not; this is not final yet, though. A "born again" experience is not emphasized in TEC, but it is not forbidden, either. Not sure about the UMC. Both TEC and the UMC teach that there are 2 sacraments: Baptism and the Eucharist (Lord's Supper). Many former RCs and Anglo Catholic Episcopalians hold the 7 sacraments as taught by the RCC and the Orthodox Church to be valid. Episcopalians do not view the Bible as inerrant (often but not always meaning that everything it says is literally true on everything it speaks about), but they do say that all of the things necessary for salvation can be found within it; in this sense, you might hear some Episcopalians describe only those things necessary for salvation as being infallible ("infallible" and "inerrant" can be viewed by some people as the same, but most Episcopalians don't consider them to be). "Sola scriptura" does not apply in TEC; instead, "prima scriptura" is applied -- the Bible is paramount, but sacred tradition, reason, and for many, experience are also very important. As I understand it, Methodists have varying views on biblical infallibility and biblical inerrancy. "Sola scriptura" seems to be more prevalent in the UMC, but it is by no means universal. The Apocrypha (most of which is also called the Deuterocanonical books by RCs) is not held to be biblical canon and is not used to establish doctrine in TEC, but it's recommended reading for examples of "life and instruction of manners". I think the UMC has a similar view of the Apocrypha, but I'm not sure. Episcopalians view baptism as necessary, but I don't think Methodists do (could be wrong). Both will baptize infants. TEC uses sprinkling or pouring as the baptismal methods, while immersion is rare (but not prohibited to my knowledge). I think immersion is used more widely in the UMC for teenagers and adults, but sprinkling and pouring are also allowed. TEC believes in the Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed, and the former is usually recited every Sunday. The Apostles Creed can be recited, but I think this is more common among Anglo Catholic parishes. TEC also believes in the Athanasian Creed to a point, but I've never heard it at a service. I think the UMC believes in the 3 creeds mentioned above, but I don't know if they're recited each week. TEC and the UMC are exploring whether or not to become "in full communion" with each other, but the process is on hold until we see how the Methodist split will look in its final form.

@@moose2021 Well set out! One tiny correction, or rather amendation: 'Episcopal worship services are very similar but not identical to RC Masses. Much of the same language is used in a lot of the prayers' .. Rome's chief liturgy, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, was (deliberately and intentionally) stripped of most of its sacrificial language (in prayer and practice) in the late 1960s. And so it looks a lot more like a Lutheran/ Episcopal Protestant type Communion Service. That is, all are gathered around a table; except that High Lutherans and High Anglicans had tended to retain more of the pre-60s reverence and to ignore the Hippy Hippy Shake/ Peter, Paul and Mary vibe now prevalent in the Roman Rite. N.B. I believe that, officially, in the Roman Rite, the Niceno-Constantinopolitan (Chalcedonian) Creed, with Filioque addition, alone may be recited at Sunday Mass (or rather it should be chanted, e.g. Credo III). The Apostles' Creed is for Baptisms/ Baptismal vows, Catechisms, and personal devotions (i.e. the Rosary etc). The Athanasian Creed* was recited during the Liturgy of the Hours on Sunday and when affirmation of the Holy Trinity was deemed necessary; now it is found only on Trinity Sunday, the Ancient Rite, and during exorcisms (both Old Order and New Order) .. ;o) * 'Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith.' et al, is most definitely not what most current senior pastors in the Roman Communion want to be heard, said, or repeated .. publicly; oddly enough Evangelical and even Reformed Protestants still seem to understand this as it was intended.

@@OzCrusader Sounds odd to me CL; in the Anglican forms, that is so, but at daily Mass it seems unusual (though sermons are more frequent in the English communion). In the Anglican Ordinariate the Nicene Creed is recited at Mass, yet only when appointed - officially, not ad libitum. For the Roman Rite, the Creed usually isn't recited at ordinary week-day Masses (even in the New Order); yet when sung or recited at Mass, after the Homily, it is the Niceno-Constantinopolitan form (unless, of course, the bishops near you have decided otherwise for themselves - and that is not impossible these days). I am no liturgical expert ... Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek. God bless.

I would say most Methodists today have little in common with the Wesleys.

It broke off from the Roman Catholic Church in the 1870's over the then newly-proclaimed doctrine of papal infallibility. While to my mind, that makes it sound like it should be even more traditional than the Roman Church, it has actually been full of homosexuals for a very long time.

How's about when one piece of scripture contradicts another?

I think you still have to hold to the doctrine and matters of faith as stated in the bible as being without error. But otherwise there are some contradictions. Such as 1 Kings 4:26, which states that Solomon had 40,000 horses. But 2 Chronicles 9:25 gives a different number. The exact number has no relevance to me, and i still can hold to what the bible says. But that is an example of what we would call an error.

@@briandiehl9257 thats not an error, thats called scribal correction. Kings and Chronicles have about 200 years between them, and one was written during the Babylon Captivity.

@@iagoofdraiggwyn98 That is still an error though, it's called a copyist error. I know actually why that came about, and that is part of the reason I used that as an example. But you do see there are parts of the bible where the numbers don't line up. This demonstrates that God allowed minor inaccuracies to come in, through different textual traditions and such. Like where Jesus either sent 70 or 72 disciples depending on which textual tradition you use. For this reason I think it is viable to say that God preserved the teachings and the stories, but allowed certain details to come into error. I mention this because there are people who don't understand this, and completely lose their faith over something irrelevant like this

@@briandiehl9257 Thats a pretty reasonable ascertation. I suppose its hard to split the difference Literary errors and doctrinal errors, for some at least. The Spirit of Scripture can never be in error, even if the words can have small errors. The world of perspectives that fill the common faith are quite interesting.

Was it red nail polish 🤔 That would make it ok I reckon

Yes, I remember that sort of attitude even in 1975.

But it was fine for the men to look good and wear a tie or even wear a hat. Oh, the good ole' days!

Whitefield was a Calvinist. He disagreed with the Wesleys, who were Arminians. The first Methodists were actually Calvinists. The bulk of Methodists have been Arminians, however, because of the Wesleys.

In wales they have the Calvinist/Methodist church. The American South also has the Southern Methodist church a split caused by slavery.

@@bobapbob5812 Thanks, Bob, for the info. I have heard of that church and have been to Wales twice. I could never figure it out and actually could not participate as I do not understand Welsh.

Amillenial means that we are currently in the millennial rain I believe. Pre-millennial means that Jesus comes back right before the millennial reign. So one is taken as a literal rain on Earth with Jesus and the other is more metaphorical.

@@triumphk9training687 Ty. I am baffled Amillenial is even a thing if that's right.

@@ramennight yeah, I believe the actual terminology they use is that we're ruling and reigning on the earth spiritually with Jesus. From my understanding they still do believe in a physical return of Jesus to the Earth though. I know that it has something to do with the events that occurred around 70 AD. Some people believe that parts of Revelation was fulfilled at that time. I personally don't believe in this theory at all, but I have looked into it. I can see how some people may think this way, but I personally believe that you have to do some twisting of scripture to hold this view. Some people also believe that the Book of Revelation was actually written after 70 AD. If this is the case it would have been impossible for things to have been fulfilled at that time. I also believe that things in the Physical Realm can also be prophetic in themselves as well. If you look at prophecies that took place in the Bible there was always something physical going on that related to the prophecy as well. I personally don't see why the Book of Revelation would be any different. The book was obviously written around that time period. I personally believe that's why we see so many similarities.

@@triumphk9training687 ......its more than 1000 years past 70AD. Millennial means 1000. Did they just forget to do math? It can't be the millennial rain by their own definitions. And I'm with you one biblical prophecy having IRL impact. I...can't think of any fulfilled prophecy where is *wasnt* IRL impact. To be fair, i'm not an expert on biblical prophecy. Thanks for the deeper dive.

@@ramennight I agree, but you have to realize people do not interpret the Bible as literally as I and you do. It's very popular these days to take numbers in the Bible as being symbolic and not literal. That's why you have people believing in evolution and calling themselves Christians. I do try to study these subjects out though so I can test them against what I personally believe. Sometimes I just get a headache from trying to decipher through all the craziness, lol. When I was working as a delivery driver I had to deal a lot with cash currency. I took a class on how to tell fake money from real money. I was taught to study and become as familiar as I possibly can with the real money. The key is to become so intimate with the real thing that it's easy to spot the fake. I personally believe that the same philosophy applies to this as well. This is why it's important as Christians to read and study our Bibles. I like to take time where I literally do not listen to any outside sources on commentary when it comes to the Bible. I always try to take time where it's just my Bible, God and I and that's it. No outside resources allowed. Only then can I rightly decipher through everyone's opinions on the Bible. The last time I did this I took 3 months where that's literally all I did besides going to work and taking care of things around the house. It can be very difficult to do sometimes. I also spend a lot of time thinking about what I've read. I need to get back into doing more of this personally. It has been a while since I've done this. Lately I've been spending a lot of time on reading about historical documents and archaeology. I am also not an expert on the subjects either. Just a regular person trying to do my best to study these thing out.

The United Methodist Church only dates from 1968. Before that, there was more of a "Methodist movement," which encompassed quite a few denominations, the biggest of which was the Methodist Episcopal Church. The Free Methodists were expelled from the Methodist Episcopal Church in 1860 for being too conservative.

Those in the Free Methodist Church separated from the Methodist Episcopal Church because they held that slavery was immoral.

What are Methodists view of Sola Scriptura?

@@JimL2883 My guess is that a lot of United Methodists now reject sola Scriptura because they are "Progressives". There would be some more conservative holdouts. At the time of George Whitefield and the Wesleys, they would have agreed with it. It was only in the early 1900s that "higher criticism" caused some of the liberal churches to reject it.

I think a method of bible study and prayer practiced by the Wesley brothers when they were in college.

Yep, They were named Methodists for "the methodical way in which they carried out their Christian faith" John Wesley especially was extremely disciplined.

Where are they? I might want to check out a church that isn't full of bigotry, toxicity, and self-righteousness

Every church has those things. People go there!@@JS-L90

Yes the one I worked at was accepting of the gay lifestyle and also sexual harassment. When Birmingham would have the gay pride parade they would stand on the corners and hand out bottled water. They loved gays but they are sexist against women.

thanks, fixed

It's because the coming of Christ is what we are hoping for. It is our hope to one day live in a perfect world. It motivates us to do good and push forward when we see the signs.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Symptomatic of another issue. Or of many other issues. People actually want to see the world end. But even that is symptomatic of deeply disturbing issues. They would bring about the end of the world themselves if they could. Supported nuclear war, they did.

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." (Hebrews 10:25)

@@bigscarysteve "the day" has been approaching SOON....for 2000 years.

Science, reason and evidence compared to creationism are not contrary to one another.

@@pettytoni1955 Science depends on evidence. Creationism depends on belief. The two are mutually exclusive.

@@OzCrusader or he upgrades from Baptist to confessional Lutheran. Always welcoming motivated people

The creator is a professor at a Baptist Bible college, I do believe.