Tire Grip | EXPLAINED

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Tire Grip | EXPLAINED

Рет қаралды 373,337

Күн бұрын

What is up with tire grip? Why do wider tires have more grip? The answer is not what you think. Does the contact patch area matter? Why is it important to understand that tires are viscoelastic?
Lets figure out the Dark secrets of tire grip.

Пікірлер: 473

@sferreirac 4 жыл бұрын

Damn, as an engineer I feel ashamed for not questioning the theories used on those videos mentioned earlier now. That's very enlightening overall, love your videos, keep educating us please.

@GraymatterPix Жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly. Although I'm no longer working in engineering, that was what I studied and F=uN was my explanation for tyre grip. I'm glad I watched this before buying a spring balance and setting up an experiment to make myself look daft. Just goes to prove that "a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing".

@ziqijia5203 4 жыл бұрын

while other youtubers talk about high school physics, Mike starts to explain the materials science. Good.

@user-mg4ph8ee8y 3 жыл бұрын

well still just enjoing the fact of understanding only 1% of the material xD

@unclenickynvp5074 3 жыл бұрын

Blessed comment

@khawajadotd 4 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU!! I've been looking for years for a good summary on this topic, because tire grip is such a misunderstood topic. Now I have finally have a reference to point people to when they regurgitate myth.

@Gersti96 3 жыл бұрын

Seeing someone correct Ryan slightly broke my heart But in another video i remember him being a bit more precise than in that dark side video

@Arkoss 4 жыл бұрын

I don't really leave comments on such big channels, but I feel that the like button is not enough here. Thanks for taking the time to do such informative videos, and describe complex topics so simply. Even though they might not get as many views as I dunno, supermoto contentent, there's people that really appreciate what you do! Your's is one of the few channels that I don't miss any video from. Keep it up!

@StellarStreak 2 жыл бұрын

I've discovered this channel recently, and I'm hooked. The research that goes into his videos is staggering. This channel gives similar vibes to another channel albeit on cars i.e. "Engineering Explained".

@MikeonBikes 4 жыл бұрын

Some references for the curious: The Racing & High performance tire, Paul Haney, 2003 Motorcycle Handling and Chassis design, Tony Foale, 2002 Motorcycle Dynamics, Vittore Cossalter, 2006 Car suspension and Handling, Donald Bastow, 1993 Chassis Engineerings, Herb Adams, 1993 Competition car suspension, Allan Staniforth, 1988 Drive to win, Carroll Smith, 1996 Engineer to win, Carroll Smith, 1984 Fundamentals of Vehicle dynamics, Thomas D. Gillespie, 1992 Mechanics of pneumatic tires, Samuel K. Clark, 1978 Prepare to win, Carroll Smith, 1975 Race car aerodynamics, Joseph Katz, 1995 Race car vehicle dynamics, William F. Milliken and Douglas L. Miliken, 1995 Science and Technology of rubber, Frederick R. Eirich, 1978 The physics of Tire traction, Donald F Hays and Alan L. Browne, 1974 The Shock absorber handbook, John C. Dixon, 1999 The Tire pavement interface, Marion G. Pottinger, 1986 Tires, suspension & handling, John C. Dixon, 1996 Tune to win, Carrol Smith, 1978 Vulcanization of Elastomers, G. Allinger and I. J. Sjothun, 1964

@duane6343 4 жыл бұрын

I'm reading Motorcycle Dynamics at this exact moment! As a tire nerd/material scientist/chemist/mechanical engineer/former racer, thank you SO MUCH for making this video. Tires are so under appreciated, they're all just black and round right? This video is already in depth, but only scratches the surface of the complexity. Could have added (and probably way too technical) the Loss Modulus and Storage Modulus based on temperature (such as a DMA graph). Which is a discussion on glass transition temperature/rubbery plateau/flow region to demonstrate exactly why operating temperatures are so critical to tire operation, tire warmup, and over-heating. It would also be cool to see a comparison of a 190 rear on a 5.5" and 6" rear wheel. U vs V profile on the wheel, and contact patch at lean angle vs straight line stability based on that profile. Such a great video.

@tomdickharryjane 4 жыл бұрын

Wow, what a list! thanks.

@RedTurbocar 4 жыл бұрын

What do I win if I own all of the above referenced?

@tomdickharryjane 4 жыл бұрын

@@RedTurbocar My undying respect and a whole lot of knowledge.

@lucysmith4242 3 жыл бұрын

Ohhhh man I fucking love the Carrol Smith books. Have devoured all of them. Holy fuck you actually read Miliken? Clearly you are my type of person. I've also read Gillespie. If you get a chance read "Race Car Engineering" by Paul Van Valkenburgh. I may have misspelled it. His books are very similar to Carrol Smith's books, but it's interesting to see the same information from someone else's opinion. Got a new subscriber by the way

@johnhoolihan9452 3 жыл бұрын

I’m a mechanical engineer turned musician and I have never heard such a thorough description of motorcycle tire dynamics. Well done!

@alexvondergulasch1500 4 жыл бұрын

Congratulations Mike, this is one of the best researched and set up motorcycle video I have ever seen! Greetings from Germany, keep up the good work! I always learn something. Kind regards, Alex

@undisputedt4604 4 жыл бұрын

9:08 when you head matches the tyre profiles and your explanations. This man speaks the truth

@BraappMalaysia 4 жыл бұрын

If this a actual film, out in theaters. I would watch it together with my lady. 😂 you had me at opening vid

@Quazacolt 4 жыл бұрын

hey holla fellow Malaysian! :D

@WiltshireBornandBred 3 жыл бұрын

Speaking as a former tyre test development rider, it also needs to be pointed out that upping tyre sizes, even from the same manufacturer & model, rarely gives more grip at the contact patch is defined by the tyres vertical stiffness, lateral stiffness, & rim produced profile. Often 2 tyre sizes have differing vertical &/or lateral stiffness, & the larger tyre may well have a smaller contact patch area on the same rim, as tyres can be fitted generally on approx 5 rims sizes and their vertical/lateral stiffness, contact patches upright, & leant over, profile, grip, & feedback will be different on each rim. Shape is everything

@falcn12 Жыл бұрын

Great point.

@noufaltariq 4 жыл бұрын

You are awesome, one of the gems in YT, keep it coming , love you mike.

@nlo114 4 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure how 'grip comes from weight', I weigh a lot, but I lost my grip years ago!

@jmc2567 3 жыл бұрын

Cool comment,I don't weigh much and I,very got fk all grip too.cheer,s, happy and safe new year from,Auckland,New Zealand,all the best...

@derekbrown1064 3 жыл бұрын

Underrated comment

@f308gtb1977 3 жыл бұрын

🤣

@GeorgeTsiros 3 жыл бұрын

bro you can find replacement grips on ebay n stuff you can even get heated grips

@juststatingfacts01 3 жыл бұрын

@@jmc2567 what???....🤔💭

@peterbigblock 9 ай бұрын

When you said, “Contact patch shape” I yelled thank you! The shape of the contact patch is so important. Same for car tires. It also has an effect on traction under braking and acceleration. Thanks for giving people the real scoop.

@sutrebloggentv756 3 жыл бұрын

You prove Einsteins saying: "If you can't explain something simply it is because you don't understand it well enough." Now even I understand it better.

@MaxShpirka 4 жыл бұрын

This video earned my subscription. Never thought about tyre slip in corners. Though I could see semi-circles on the edges of a new tyre that I slowly break in. I suspected this was due to tyre slip in corners, but was not sure how it really works.

@user-kk5nl5go6k 8 ай бұрын

As a physics student and track day rider and enduro rider, this is now my fave channel on youtube. Dirt knobbies next!

@mauricioconzattifrison920 4 жыл бұрын

When the engineering knows race and what are talking about. Great job for make me (engineering student) understand the real fisics behind those simplifications.

@victorperezADSK 4 жыл бұрын

As an engineering student you should know the video is wrong. its first year physics

@victorperezADSK 4 жыл бұрын

@Benjamin Vadocz see my other comment

@MikeonBikes 4 жыл бұрын

@@victorperezADSK Some references for you to read up. The Racing & High performance tire, Paul Haney, 2003 Motorcycle Handling and Chassis design, Tony Foale, 2002 Motorcycle Dynamics, Vittore Cossalter, 2006 Car suspension and Handling, Donald Bastow, 1993 Chassis Engineerings, Herb Adams, 1993 Competition car suspension, Allan Staniforth, 1988 Drive to win, Carroll Smith, 1996 Engineer to win, Carroll Smith, 1984 Fundamentals of Vehicle dynamics ics, Thomas D. Gillespie, 1992 Mechanics of pneumatic tires, Samuel K. Clark, 1978 Prepare to win, Carroll Smith, 1975 Race car aerodynamics, Joseph Katz, 1995 Race car vehicle dynamics, William F. Milliken and Douglas L. Miliken, 1995 Science and Technology of rubber, Frederick R. Eirich, 1978 The physics of Tire traction, Donald F Hays and Alan L. Browne, 1974 The Shock absorber handbook, John C. Dixon, 1999 The Tire pavement interface, Marion G. Pottinger, 1986 Tires, suspension & handling, John C. Dixon, 1996 Tune to win, Carrol Smith, 1978 Vulcanization of Elastomers, G. Allinger and I. J. Sjothun, 1964

@victorperezADSK 4 жыл бұрын

@@MikeonBikes Thanks for the input 👌

@duane6343 4 жыл бұрын

No first year engineering student can make any statement on the validity of this video. The concepts here just begin to get into polymer science. Viscoelastic materials can be thought of as a dash pot and spring combination. I guarantee you that no undergrad ME has a scientific understanding of this topic (viscoelastic materials was a 500 level class in my Master's program). Please see the references Mike has listed.

@hunterhealer8022 4 жыл бұрын

Underrated channel. Motorcycle grips as with other things in life, are not always as simple. Thanks man

@cetusrojo 4 жыл бұрын

I had this doubt for years, and didn't find satisfaction in any other answers before. You are such a great teacher!

@jasonnaubur8759 3 жыл бұрын

I think I need to watch this a few more times, well done. Also love the high quality audio, video and sets right beside the torn scraps of cardboard and hand scrawled notes, lol. Reuse that packaging!

@saikosuku_trial6215 4 жыл бұрын

When the bubbly music comes on I know I’m gonna learn something🤔. Thanks Mike.

@lukeskywodka8562 3 жыл бұрын

Hey, i´m a tire Engineer for Car Tires and your video is the first on on youtube that i watched without feeling any pain!:) Great job!

@princetn Ай бұрын

very good introductory course on pneumatic tire. contact patch x pressure = force. so for less pressure and same force (load) you will get more contact surface between the tire and the surface. Rubber is sticky and bonds to ground surface and is independent of the force applied vertically to some extent but instead it bonds using Van der Waals forces. So that means more contact surface equates to more grip. which means with lower pressure (obviously not completely 0 pressure, but lower minimum recommended pressure) you will get the most grip. Columb's coefficient force is for solid materials. rubber is a viscous material and not a solid one. viscoelectic materials have also temperature dependent characteristics. wider tires provide more contact surface with less pressure. wider tires are harder to lean to a corner. meaning they are less responsive to rider command when he wants to quickly lean the motorcycle to make the turn faster.

@lovelessissimo 4 жыл бұрын

I love how the ultra technical concepts are explained on ultra technical torn-up cardboard.

@Gkuljian 3 жыл бұрын

It just donned on me that part of the keying aspect relies on how rubber acts like a spring. Great video. The best I've seen on this subject.

@adrianm5147 3 жыл бұрын

LOL! I've been riding my whole life! You can tell there's something going on down there. Easiest way to explain it? It's like scotch tape. The bigger the piece, the more grip. You rock mike!

@levgtz7814 4 жыл бұрын

“Based on real empirical data”. That sentence is really profound. Great!

@DumbledoreMcCracken 3 жыл бұрын

Many "engineers" think the equations they learned dictate the behavior of real physical systems. Those equations are only applicable to a narrow set of conditions, and nature is free to generate data that is in disagreement with the (simple) equations, given the limited applicability of the equations. My hypothesis is that Germans are taught that electrical systems behave as per the aggregate of manufacturer's specification, and design fragile systems based on the inability to imagine corner cases. That's the only way I can imagine the stark difference between German electrical systems and Japanese electrical systems.

@TheBigdutchster 3 жыл бұрын

Rarely do I come across something so well and thoroughly explained. Thank you greatly.

@me73941 4 жыл бұрын

The MacGyver shirt is classic!!! And as always, excellent video!

@wizbangdiving 2 жыл бұрын

1:36 in and I have renewed my subscription for 5 years. Very well done. Thanks 🙏

@andyjonathan2486 Жыл бұрын

Great video and excellent explanations. For SCCA autocross, I found that if went with too wide of a tire, it would generate less grip because for lightweight cars, the tire temperature would not increase enough during a 50-60 second run. The pressure at the contact patch decreased too much, in which hysteric deformation of the rubber into the tarmac asperities was reduced. Tire dynamics is indeed a very complicated topic. My head was spinning when I studied the brush model, dugoff model, and ‘magic’ tire formula back in school.

@bondedtruth6317 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot for this video. For me personally, your channel is one of the most educating channels to learn and have a proper understanding of bikes.

@jakobbeentjes7511 4 жыл бұрын

When will you make a video about the knobs on dirt bike tires?? (13:10)

@MityaRoshchupkin 4 жыл бұрын

+1 to this request )

@Tj-ez7jn 4 жыл бұрын

+1 would love to see this

@ericmurillo1526 4 жыл бұрын

+1 please do this

@Quinton_treecutter 4 жыл бұрын

@alexwilliams6654 3 жыл бұрын

@johnnytopgun6414 3 жыл бұрын

Awesome video. It's a community's job to keep tabs on the other's no harm done. Most of us all love canyon, ryan and yourself

@bernhtp 4 жыл бұрын

This is the best explanation I've seen on how contact patch and tire size affect grip. It would have been great to provide effective coefficients of friction and how they change with tire size in a few select circumstances, but this data may not exist.

@ropro5402 2 жыл бұрын

Okay, this is one absolutely oustanding video on tires! Exactly answers all the questions and doubts I had. Thank you for sharing the knowledge!

@chrisgoes9610 2 жыл бұрын

I have a honours degree in Mech Eng and understand about 20-40% of this (albeit I qualified 30 years ago). That’s me being dumb rather than Mikes explanation. For the bits I did understand it seems to make sense and the graphics really help. My conclusion- it’s a complicated business and I’m really glad we can benefit from the research and testing those top brand manufacturers put in. I will give it a passing thought the next time I put on a wide track tyre. Mike you have done a great job here really useful content and well presented, many thanks for putting this together.

@anuardelcastillo2627 3 жыл бұрын

Mike! Its great to have you talk real shit!! Now a days that its crowded with "experts" and "influencers" knowing nothing! THANKS SO MUCH

@krisnestorurian9127 4 жыл бұрын

I don’t know if anyone has asked: “Why does Road tyres work better than street legal 21-18s on dual-purpose bikes?” I know the obvious answer is because it’s made that way, perhaps maybe you can explain further (and better than what I’ve read so far in Tyres and Vehicle dynamics).

@AntaresSQ01 3 жыл бұрын

Work better in what way? Grip? Turning? Longevity?

@MaDcOw1986 3 жыл бұрын

A very good explanation with real world scenario. Unlike other videos that only compares laboratory conditions

@jamest5149 2 жыл бұрын

You have to throw stiction in to this as well, friction is seen in movement and stiction is the force to overcome to start a movement or slide, this is higher value than the measured friction value in movement. 👍

@decocatani 4 жыл бұрын

This video is full of right concepts and good explanations and doesn´t contradict the two mentioned at the start. Mike´s video seems to cover the subject relating to racing. For the other 99,9999% of motorcycle riders that run on road tires (not slick ones), the first two videos are the real deal.

@blipco5 4 жыл бұрын

You are far and away the BEST motorcycle channel on the internet. Ride well. I subscribe also to Canyonchasers and Fort9. 🍻

@ebeaulieu813 3 жыл бұрын

Mike, you did such a good job on this next one should be CAR tires on the rear wheel of motorcycles. Yes you read that correctly. Warning though, once they riders install car tire on the rear they swear is corners better? My response is if that's true Road Racers would install car tires and be done with it. This phenomena seems to be among Honda Valkyrie riders and Harley's.

@shngsam8777 4 жыл бұрын

finally!! there is proper explanation on why wider tires giving more grip

@shubhamupman7260 2 жыл бұрын

Dude. This is the best video I have seen regarding road grip!! Thanks!! ❣️

@joefeex 4 жыл бұрын

Best. Tire. Grip. Explanation. Ever. And Dude, get a whiteboard.

@Temple_of_Passion 4 жыл бұрын

Every motorcycle rider needs to study this channel over and over.. you are spoiling us my friend thankyou for the information on riding

@arjunp1835 3 жыл бұрын

The best channel to be a better Rider!

@kalle5218 4 жыл бұрын

Fortnine heard boss music when this was posted :) Keep killing it Mike

@PK-lo6ws 3 жыл бұрын

who was the other youtuber who said it grip came from the weight??

@kalle5218 3 жыл бұрын

@@PK-lo6ws i dont remember

@braackw 4 жыл бұрын

Very informative video. Gets to show that friction and grip is fundamentally two different things. Friction only contributes to the overall concept of grip.

@garrycoates2147 Жыл бұрын

I have been researching this area of contact patch relation to tyre width and grip. When you install wider tires without changing anything else, the size of the tire's contact patch (i.e., the rubber touching asphalt) stays relatively constant BUT that does not mean it is exactly the same as other things do change. Evidence for this is at: 1. "Are wide or narrow tyres best for a 4x4?" By L2SFBC - Robert Pepper on KZfaq. He actually measures the CP shape and area for different tyres. 2. Relationships among the contact patch length and width, the tire deflection and the rolling resistance of a free-running wheel in a soil bin facility - A white paper. Hear they say "Contact patch length was found to have a linear relation with wheel load ; however, contact patch width was found to be a polynomial (order 2) function of wheel load" 3. BND Techsource - They have a CP calculator which shows changes to CP length and width for different tyre profiles. They say "contact width is a function of vehicle tire section width, and aspect ratio" Does anybody know how do this CP calculation? I have found papers that calculate the length but nothing specific on the width. Anecdotal evidence when dirtbike riding in sand is that tyre width does make a big difference. Regards Garry

@MrJuggernautishere 3 жыл бұрын

what an absolutely phenomenal video..finally somebody managed to distill and simplify Tony Foale as well

@firebladeadam 4 жыл бұрын

Love the technical understanding you have of the physics of bike geometry. And your McGyver T shirt. Rockin'

@patrickjoseph6237 3 жыл бұрын

Best explanation ever and waaaaay faster than reading a book. Thank you for doing what you do. Wish I could recommend this video more highly than just a thumbs up.

@OlmanEg 3 жыл бұрын

Wow! I was very sceptical of this video, because of all the trash on YT. You explain everything so clear for everyone!

@heftyheft5185 4 жыл бұрын

You should do a Collab with engineering explained for the ultimate motorbike aerodynamics lesson! Love all your vids

@HanahbibiVarietyVlogs 3 жыл бұрын

So, after I watched 5-6 videos of yours, I guess I can call you great teacher now.

@Pretko99 4 жыл бұрын

Best motorcycle tire video I have seen so far

@rsilvers129 3 жыл бұрын

You stated that wider tires don’t have a larger contact patch. You did say “for the same internal pressure,” so you were correct, but that will mislead almost everyone since tires are not used that way. More internal volume always needs lower pressure. Therefore, in actual use when correctly inflated, wider tires do have a larger contact patch.

@Birb_of_Judge 4 жыл бұрын

This was very interesting and informative. And I ride a Honda Cb125r (not for much longer though) and that thing for some reason has a 150/60 rear, when most other 125cc bikes I know have 120 rear tires. But I have to say it has great handling and corners very well.

@Ganzonx1 4 жыл бұрын

MIKEEEE keep up the good work sir. This was very informative for me and my riding buddies. Thanks for helping us ride more safe.

@coopertrooper87 4 жыл бұрын

That was EXCEPTIONALLY informative! Thank you! Brilliant content! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

@mowman7777 4 жыл бұрын

Finally, an accurate explanation of tire grip.

@DanielCastillo911 3 жыл бұрын

thanks, i liked your explanation, it is most needed in the bikes world. very hard to find explanations like this one

@heikopanzlaff3789 3 жыл бұрын

For racing tires it counts, for street legal tires - stop shopping for wider ones. Actual ones have added silicates to make them more quiet. It also reduces the lifetime. Had to change my Michelin Pilot Powers on my motorbike ( R1 ) because of cracks. With this added chemicals they also produce less grip. So for street legal ones, µ will be 0,8 +- a few . But on most motorbikes the suspention is a point worth of taking care . Recently bought a XJR 1200 where the front fork pretensioning from factory was way too much. Bought Bilstein springs and made the pretension adjustable, way better now.

@pablobriz5102 4 жыл бұрын

The main difference between cardboard and tires, is that tires roll, and the friction coefficient is static, much higher than a sliding friction coefficient. But everything else is pretty accurate, thanks for the video

@picassojeus6114 3 жыл бұрын

Your erudition commends respect. Looking forward to more such explanations. Good job. Educating is serving. Your service is priceless. Keep it up man. 👌👍

@biscuitsalive 3 жыл бұрын

I’m remembering the friction experiment when you interlock two phone books. Page into page, for the whole book, the resulting friction was so high a champion weight lifter couldn’t separate the books. And that’s just the weight of paper.

@hermanman8235 3 жыл бұрын

I don't really know though the effects of the wide big rubber on a motorcycle grip...the thing is when the tyre are flat/ punctured it's much more safer to push the bike to the nearest shop than the thin one..on my point of view.thanks for the video...a lot of information .

@stephanesimard1692 4 жыл бұрын

So what I undestood is that if I want the most grip on a specific day (weather) on a specific track (road surface and average speed) I need to find an engineer that likes track days and copy is choices LOL Great vulgarisation mate.

@burkeyatm 3 жыл бұрын

Just to add to your adhesion theory, in certain classes of karts, the tyres are so sticky that if you let it sit for a minute after a race, you need to actually break the bond between the tyres and the bitumen beneath them. It is literally stuck to the track.

@frankmorris2603 4 жыл бұрын

Everybody loves Ryan.

@hwjucal9365 3 жыл бұрын

Every type of material have different kind of coefficient of friction. I agree with Mike.

@louismartin4446 Жыл бұрын

Great vid but you did not touch on why MORE power requires wider tires-which has nothing to do with increased contact patch for traction purposes but for heat dissipation and retaining rubber for for the bike! A 500 bike will go around corners at same speed as litre bikes and same lean angles but do not require a 190 0r 200 rear tire. Heck Some 250 cc bikes can go around the corner as fast but only need a much thinner rear tire. This is NOT an issue of contact patch or traction but mass/energy management. Wish. you could have discussed that. But your vis are always very good Mike..Thanks for educating the masses

@carmarusso3869 3 жыл бұрын

I gotta say this is a subject on my mind lately. I am an ex racer who rode before the tire tech came along! I have not ridden hard and fast on bias tires yet and am about to get back on bikes. Let's hear what you have to give as advice

@Kergrist 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent - and I taught motor vehicle. Superb graphics, 👍

@maximilliancunningham6091 11 ай бұрын

You cover some points that others skip over. TY.

@mixerguru 3 жыл бұрын

thank you !!!!finally !!! its not so complicated if the friction coefficient equation was correct then tires would not be relevant. Ill report how my blackbird behaves with its new front end with 55 mm of width added, in order to frame a 5.5 " wheel same as rear .. It may be disaster until I work it out on pavement . Im determined to have the most corner entry traction and braking adhesion possible . The original idea of a smaller front comes from a time before brakes really mattered and the technique of floating the front end was across turain was key. high performance bicycles have similar tires front and rear as do flat track bikes witch is all about the best possible adhesion balance. good vid !

@tahoon2009 3 жыл бұрын

Perfect explanation, too many concepts discussed and interconnected

@ArchilochusOfParos 3 жыл бұрын

This channel is an oasis, I feel like I can leave the covid world behind and blissfully lose myself in tire grip. There's something I never thought I'd say.

@bigbang4425 3 жыл бұрын

After 3 years of studying and believing the (Mew x N) concept and 4 years of Engineering, I finally understand the real concept. Now I'm questioning my education.

@TopSpeedTommy 3 жыл бұрын

Mike, please talk a little more about Contact Patch shape on each front and rear Tire at increasing lean angles. The reason I ask is that I would like to be able to educate my friend on what i believe to be a misconception on his part. Mark is on a 05 CBR1000RR with Dunlop Q4 190/55/17 and 120/70/17 reaching estimated lean angles of 45-47 degrees Mark is under the impression that because he has no chicken strip that the rear tire is near its max lean angle. Keep in mind the Q4 is advertised to 62 max degrees. Thank you for giving us the engineers explanation on motorcycle behavior.

@jamest5149 2 жыл бұрын

Adding tread also adds movement thus heat, so will heat up quicker and add more temperature so is useful in cold road temperatures 👍

@cableguy130 9 ай бұрын

Glad you mentioned aspect ratio. I have a theory i want to test about using a smaller tire like a 180 on a liter bike. To do this inwould have to change to a 5 or 5.5" rim. Ive thought about putting 190 on a 6" rim but it would mess up the aspect ratio of the tire. The only loss would be thermal load for long races but over all i suspect it will handle better with more side contact patch because aspect ratio. Ive also been critizied for saying some street tires don't have the shape for high lean angle. Low aspect tires or non aggressive tires literally run out of tire to lean on.

@stefffan6032 3 жыл бұрын

Wow. This video explains how difficult is to explain grip. And how silly is using this basic physical rules to do it. Now I know how little do I know bout it 🙂

@lovepcgaming2335 3 жыл бұрын

Got a sub from me for this vid. Explaining both the common theory and the actual material science behind it in laments terms is highly educational.

@brianmorse8811 4 жыл бұрын

I got it the first time you talked about it. and I got myself a supermoto like you suggested. that 450 Husqvarna nice! great fun thanks... thumbs up!

@jonathanharmon23 2 жыл бұрын

Just discovered your channel. Dude, your explanations are on point! Great content!

@johnsy59 4 жыл бұрын

Nice work, you put into words many of my concerns/suspensions of many current grip and contact patch theories. It's not an either/or thing, it's a combination of a lot of black sciences interacting in a highly dynamic environment.

@hfrick99763 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Mike, a well made Video, and a commendable attempt, at explaining a complicated concept to a wider audience. But as an engineer I know all too well that any attempt to simplify a complex subject, will lead to inaccuracies, which will mislead the lay person and dissatisfy, the engineer. A wider tire with a harder compound, vs one of the same construction with a softer compound, or a bigger diameter vs smaller diameter tire, a tire with a different aspect ratio, the friction coefficient of different rubbers. The weight of the bike, the suspension setup, the steering geometry, the tradeoff of wider tires, and on and on. So really the title should read “all other factors being equal wider tires offer more grip”.

@aeror115 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve tested the wider tire options for me on the track. The 190 was replaced by an 200 rear tire 🤙

@dwhit7451 3 жыл бұрын

Finally someone who knows everything😀

@CanyonChasers 4 жыл бұрын

I think it was a bit disingenuous to say I got it wrong. Was it simplified? Sure. I feel like this is kinda like the "do chains stretch" argument. You can argue a chain doesn't stretch, the holes in the plates and the pins get worn down and the chain gets longer. But the definition of stretch is "being made longer or wider without tearing or breaking." Is the guy who says a chain stretches wrong? No. It was just a simplified explanation.

@MikeonBikes 4 жыл бұрын

I think that specifically "the force of friction is directly proportional to the applied load", (it's not), and "friction force is independent of area of contact" (it's not), are both oversimplifications. I agree with both you and Ryan on the other parts of your videos.

@nunyabusiness896 4 жыл бұрын

@CanyonChasers Yeah, I gotta side with Mike on this one, calling it purely F = μN is just a straight up incorrect statement, weight is only one factor and it's not a linear relationship. As another mechanical engineer like Mike, high school and even some college physics just don't get into the exceptions to the rule as much as they should, and sometimes don't even clarify that there *are* exceptions. If more weight equaled more grip, then the fattest riders would be the fastest riders through corners, and we all know that isn't remotely the case. The adhesion forces in particular is what sets them apart from more conventional materials and are why tires can pull up to 3G of lateral force on race karts (highest non-downforce grip I'm aware of) when most materials would never get past 1G. I've had plastic food wrappers get stuck to my kart slicks after pulling in after some laps that almost took ripping the wrapper to peel off, if it was just friction force and weight at play, it would've never stayed on the tire in the first place. Also, while we're on the subject, I kind of don't like the guys that call chain wear "chain stretching" as it's caused a lot of people to think the chain links actually do stretch out and it leads to misunderstandings about where and how the wear occurs. I even read people on forums say they don't lube their chain because "it always stretches out before anything gets worn", yeah, because the pins have no lube and they're wearing down. I'm sure you meant well and were describing it with your best understanding, but I'm also glad Mike cleared it up as I was taken a bit back when even Ryan from Fortnine, a guy with a physics degree, got it wrong.

@dztrbdgod 4 жыл бұрын

@@MikeonBikes have you got sources for us to look at?

@MikeonBikes 4 жыл бұрын

@@dztrbdgod The Racing & High performance tire, Paul Haney, 2003 Motorcycle Handling and Chassis design, Tony Foale, 2002 Motorcycle Dynamics, Vittore Cossalter, 2006 Car suspension and Handling, Donald Bastow, 1993 Chassis Engineerings, Herb Adams, 1993 Competition car suspension, Allan Staniforth, 1988 Drive to win, Carroll Smith, 1996 Engineer to win, Carroll Smith, 1984 Fundamentals of Vehicle dynamics, Thomas D. Gillespie, 1992 Mechanics of pneumatic tires, Samuel K. Clark, 1978 Prepare to win, Carroll Smith, 1975 Race car aerodynamics, Joseph Katz, 1995 Race car vehicle dynamics, William F. Milliken and Douglas L. Miliken, 1995 Science and Technology of rubber, Frederick R. Eirich, 1978 The physics of Tire traction, Donald F Hays and Alan L. Browne, 1974 The Shock absorber handbook, John C. Dixon, 1999 The Tire pavement interface, Marion G. Pottinger, 1986 Tires, suspension & handling, John C. Dixon, 1996 Tune to win, Carrol Smith, 1978 Vulcanization of Elastomers, G. Allinger and I. J. Sjothun, 1964

@tomfull6637 3 жыл бұрын

A better way to save face in situations like these is to just say: Thank you for digging really deep into the nuts and bolts in this matter and educating us all about the peculiar and particular behaviour of tyre friction and why it doesn’t follow normal physical laws and formulas. Kind regards Tom (Retired engineer; Porsche, Audi, VW, R&D: Saab, SCANIA.) PS. I follow and like all three of you.