Problem is: It is just a copy, like a twin. So not real immortality. 😩 It's better to rely on biological solutions and avoid buses 😂

You need continuation of consciousness but even then you get a bifurcation of identity (both the digital copy and the original human think they're the real one.)

No pun intended . . .

I'd like to be uploaded, my belie is there would be a split or copy of my mind like a document if there was no way to transfer the process of being alive and conscious like pouring milk into a jar. I think it should be as easy to get optimized body as it is to buy food from a marker one day. I also believe biohacking could lead to us having all these things in combination with a link life to bridge the gap between the human and human made eco system

As @tank5801 says, it woul be a copy. What appeals more to me is sensory interfaces, coupled with nanotechnology that repairs or replaces dead neurons as they die.

Depends on what you want to do. Probably a combination of both.

Not without memories

A tiny piece of it, frozen in time; yes....

If getting only your mind saved without your body doesn't look like a good deal, don't forget that the god deal sold to us for 20 centuries was not better and didn't include any guarantee. Don't forget that with the advance of robotics, sooner or later you will be able to get back an even better body that never get painful teeth trouble.

@@LorenzoMcMaster I agree with you about gaining a better body and all, but you miss my concern. I want the original me to live on, not a copy. My copy could be around and see what the future holds, but I'd still be dead.

@@dvrrwd307I would recommend looking into that “God Deal” - million times better than rotting an eternity in a digital hell, hoping no one turns you off or being forgotten stuck inside a frackin’ machine. But in the end there will be no “continuity” by moving into a machine. On the other hand, Jesus promises: whoever believes in me will have eternal live. With Jesus there is real continuity. Real eternal live. It’s the real you, not a copy of you.

Lets imagine we implant a chip in your mind and now we start transferring data to that chip, and after we have collected all of it, we make an exact body double of you, and connect the double to the chip with a wire.. Lets then say that (just like when you move things with your mind on computers) you switch back and forth between controlling the double and the original, to prove that 'you' are actually in charge. That should be proof right?.. No.. How do we know that 'you' didnt die somewhere along the process, and the 'now you', is actually just a copy that think he was you? We cant know.. Just like you cant possibly know if today is actually the first day of 'your' life, and all the memories is the only reason that you believe it is continuously.. How do you know you lived the life of yesterday, and it wasnt some past brain neurons living that life?

@@dennisnielsen8030 I've heard that the body replaces every cell in your body over a 7 year period. That would mean that you are transitioned for one body to another seamlessly. Seems like there could be some way of doing things that way. What we need is a lot better understanding of what makes a person a person. Until we know that, we can't be sure of continuity. Unfortunately, I have no confidence that anything will be done before I die. I'm 65 and no where near read for my life to end. Instead I'll remain trapped in a deteriorating body until I die. I would be happier if I knew there was a way I could go digital or have a way to reverse aging.

Indeed human brains are very predictable. We all have instinct etc. Simulate 1 million people and an alien jumps out. Most will run, many screen, some will fight. I would say I need a selfie for proof. You would need to run a copy vs orginal after say sleeping.

Why have to observe every possible state? If you copy the brain molecule by molecule all possible states will be within in the copy. Just like a computer algorithm that relies on external input. If you have multiple exact copies and the inputs are the same the outputs are going to be exactly the same.

I disagree. If you have access to all information in the brain, you would have access to all of the person's memories, their capacity to reason, their way of perceiving and understanding the world, etc. There would still be missing pieces, of course, such as the endocrine system and everything else the brain communicates back and forth with that also has affects on its state. According to my understanding, if you had the subject's entire body scanned at a molecular level and reproduced in a faithful simulation, you would get an accurate representation of the person scanned.

If you make a copy of a videogame like say Fortnite, you dont have to make a copy of the game in every possible state the game could be in, the code of the game is enough, and then as the game is played, characters and items etc move around, but you only downloaded the default code. Obviously games are not the same as a brain, im not claiming my analogy is accurate for a brain. But youve made a statement saying you would have to have every possible state. I am curious have you came to that conclusion or if its an assumption.

@@luminousdragon exactly, the states are a result of the structure (be it programming code or neuron and synaptic connections).

Then you are out of your mind LITERALLY. You can have your brain amputated and put in one of those "jars" in this video if you want but me: HELL NO.

You pass out during the procedure... And the next thing you know is... you are a bodyless unstable mind in nothingness for a seemingly infinite amount of time... constantly stimulated but with no input or purpose, going crazy for eons... in a million instances... Just some random scientific test.

@Scottiedoesit :))) Some churches are still looking out there for you.

@@marius165 What you are describing is TERRIFYING. Scares me more than "regular" death.

you @@Zurround as you are dead anyway. it's a separate instance of your ... gathered information, which is being activated. Don't worry, you get your death.

It's also more than likely the only possibility for the human species to continue its evolution. The better advances we reach in medical and bio field, and the more peaceful our world becomes, the less incentivized our species become to adapt and evolve beyond our current limitations. Morality aside, when we can care for every person and make sure everyone fit into society, it means no genes get excluded or favorized in the bigger picture. Basically, everyone will forever have a chance to forward their genes and when that's the case, a species has reached an evolutionary dead end. Biodigital evolution is the next logical step for mankind in this regard, if we want to move forward as a species. Then, as you say, we may evolve into a fully digitized species with entirely new opportunities ahead of us. Perhaps, the greatest questions about our own humanity can only be answered, if we abandon our current idea of what that "humanity" means.

So you are just entirely disregarding the human soul which is acknowledged by basically every society or culture that's ever existed? How would you still enjoy the human connection you have with the loved one whos died and left behind only a digital format of their brain attach to some "mush". I'm not even being sarcastic or condescending, I am actually asking cuz this topic just makes no sense to me at all and I do not see how or why anyone is enthusiastic about it. I want to, but currently do not.

​​@@patc2515 You sound as if you are borrowing a concept that originates in religion. Religion, may I remind you, has no part to play in science. And no one has yet been able to discover a soul, much less study it. For instance, is what you call a soul an emergent property of biochemical and neurophysical activities of the brain - essentially a byproduct of brain activity - or a holistic entity that exists prior to the brain and/or independently of it You seem to be referring to metaphysical concepts that lie in the intellectual pursuits of theology and philosophy rather than the tangible world of the physical sciences.

BORG

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂@@patc2515

And what type of problems are you solving in your life?

for people with adhd it’s max 3 😂

" The human brain can only keep 5 or so different things in working memory at once " That's not entirely true. I can keep easily 500.000 tokens of context without any effort or tool, if I were an LLM. And if I keep some textual notes, I can easily keep 2.000.000 tokens, I would be like GPT6 or something (2M tokens isn't really a lot, that's like a chapter of a textbook). Sure, I can't keep more than 9 items at once in my hippocampus, but I can keep things that long in my working memory, I just kind of have to swap them out and in of the hippocampus. Its like focusing, I know the information is there, I only need to focus, that takes energy and I get tired after doing it for a couple of hours.

DR ALAN THOMPSON! Technically ALREADY ARRIVED YESTERDAY!

We may be able to do a lot of what you're just talking about with just simply very good extremely powerful narrow AI perhaps being guided and directed by on existing large language model.

agi is already exists using the world perceptron model its just not as advance as we want it to be yet

Yes, AGI would be very, very helpful. Unfortunately, it comes with the caveat that it could be an X-risk... but it seems we've chosen this path whether we want to or not. Alas, man has dreamed of God ever since he woke up- now, God is coming.

@@perc-ai Not really. While generally intelligent AI does exist, AGI is usually intended to mean general intelligence on the level of a human- this has not yet been achieved.

We can't upload a mind because science has shown that "the mind" exists outside of space and outside of time. How can you capture data points that don't exist in physical reality? I think this whole topic isn't well thought out as relates to consciousness and being human.

Agree!

Far better to scan using magnetic interference.

Humans, as a matter of fact, are the only species on Earth which consciously tries to do good, at the expense of its innermost impulses. I reject this anti-humanist thinking in its entirety, based on this evident fact.

That's just learning, that's already what you're doing right now.

I totally followed your thinking. I have thought so as well myself.

the simulation hypothesis posits that given the evident growth of computing capabilities it's not unreasonable that a universe could possibly be simulatable and given that possibility and the vast infinities involved the likelihood that we are ourselves just one of many such simulations is far greater than the likelihood that we are lucky enough to be the exclusive top level unsimulated universe.

You just explained the plot of “white Christmas” episode from the show Black Mirror

Correct, a program could be made to actually invent hell where you'd go for seemingly eternity

Dont worry, spooky three letter agencies are working on this problem already. Likely running human experiments.

Eh you’re gonna die anyway. If we aren’t perfect at first, we’ll get there close enough for humanity. Our own memories are quite imperfect, as is our perception of existence. At least we’ll have options.

With enough narcissism, it's good enough, I guess 😛

i think it boils down to "am i making a contribution to [specify] or not?" that makes you justify the duplication of self. i'm not talking of working day and night, more like, providing some cultural enrichment of sorts. and certainly it's up to you. you don't have to. :-)

We do not currently know how to move the stream of consciousness, but it's unlikely to be impossible, as it already emerged once from a different substrate (ie at birth).

@@lilemont9302 emerging is different from moving, that's never happened before but I agree that it should be possible in theory.

@@alancollins8294 Oh, yes, I do agree that it's not the same- but afaik, everything in the physical world can be moved. I'm just saying that it obviously follows some process. Materialists in this regard have a very strange behaviour where they suddenly act as if the soul exists and doesn't exist at the same time ("you exist because of physical laws, but something about you cannot be manipulated by physical laws, because, uh..."), when the concept of transfer gets brought up. I have never seen an actually cogent explanation from this, so I assume it's some rhetorical loop.

They used to bleed people and give them mercury as medicine. I'm sure they thought this would be a boon to medicine. Don't invest the farm. It's not what BCI can do, or how many cripples we can antimate, but how long. The only way you can keep an alien object inside the human body is to give the subject regulare amounts of drugs that depress the immune responce. Sooner or later, they will be struggling with seizures if not mental strokes!

That would mean a copy of where there are - around 80 x 10 ^ 9 Nerv Cells and - around 100 x 10 ^ 14 Connections. Even the brain changes when learning etc, I cannot imagine that just such a scan would represent the information in the brain. Well, bit on the other side, where is it then? It reminds me of the brain of Albert Einstein. I think it is partially still in a lab. It's a very interesting subject.

They will copy a rat mind first, if the artificial robotic or simulated rat does the same choices than the original counterpart, we could they captured the ghost inside the bottle, but I suspect that they will soon be differentiated as time goes by, due to small disturbances, noise and sensitivity differences of the order of micro amperes and milli volts between the artificial and the biological body. Is inevitable I think.

Smart, never thought of that.

This is creepy as hell. CREEPY AS HELL.

if that is the case is the energy the language itself used to make consciousness or is energy a biproduct of the language needed to manipulate the energy needed to make consciousness?

@@Exania88 energy is the vehicle, the means by which the encoded signal is transmitted. What actually consciousness is, we don't know. Mostly we speculate but we have no idea. The biological brain is a very important part of it. I'm arguing that intellect and intelligence is directly linked to self-awareness and a part of consciousness. I'm arguing that the ability to introspect and recognize yourself as aware, is directly linked to the intellectual capacity and henceforth to consciousness. I'd assume that a person with a mental underdevelopment, is not able to acknowledge and introspect on self, on awareness. Is not able to acknowledge themselves. Is less aware, is less conscious. This doesn't mean that they can't suffer or feel, just that the complexity of the mind is reduced and mind complexity is generating self-awareness and consciousness. So, I'm betting on the biological brain and chemistry as being the promoters and generators of consciousness but I'm guessing that's not all. The self exists but it's not aware due to intellectual limitations.

The problem with this idea is that it presumes consciousness exists in a immaterial pocket universe that's mediated by biochemicals. This is like the brain in a jar hypothesis, or that other hypothesis that the brain is a mere antenna. The best description that I ever found is that consciusness is like a chain reaction in a nuclear reactor. The chain reaction doesn't really exist as a physical thing anywhere in the reactor. You only have atoms that either are emitting or blocking radiation. Those atoms are emitting neutrons, the chain reaction is neutrons being exchanged. I think that what brains do is a similar thing, neurons emit signals, the signals and the brain and the neurons, none of those are conscious. Sure the brain requires energy to generate the signals, but conscious isn't that either. It is literally an emergent property of the signals themselves. And I say that its like a nuclear reactor in a way, that if you have too much signals, you have a meltdown, a convulsion, the consciousness stops, if you have too little signals, that's a coma. Its only at the boundary of order and chaos that it appears, because it is an emergent behavior. Consciousness doesn't exchange anything, there's no boundary, there's no mediation between body and mind, there's only mind. What the body does has no relation to what the mind perceives. Sure, the body can affect the signals, but the mind has to interpret the signals, for all it knows, the signals magically just happen. The mind really is some sort of software, because that's how software behave, your operating system don't ever know there's a hard-drive in your computer, it just sets registers, internal registers of the CPU, its own internal state, that somehow affect change outside, aka, the hardware. And the opposite, the hardware can only set those registers. That's how a computer works. There's also no direct connection between software and hardware, except though mediation of abstraction. Because software is also an emergent behavior of calculating machines, you tear down every piece of your hardware, and you're never, ever going to see the soul of the machine, even if you put the hard drive in a microscope and look at the bits, you're still not seeing the actual software, only a dead representation. So if you can't ever reconstitute your "simple" computer state from the hard drive without actually running the program, what's the chance of brain upload every working. Well, except you can do that to computers if you know the representation of physical signals and abstract logical signals, this is the boundary, its an abstract boundary, not a physical one. So you're never going to understand consciousness from just looking at the signals in the actual hardware. Heck, that's amazingly hard to do even for computers, and we know both layers of the abstraction. Maybe there's a way to relate signals from consciousness to the outside signals, but that needs to be a self-experiment, no human ever had a brain-interface to its own brain, ironically .

There was a game that played on this concept. Where they uploaded their brain to a pc to send it across the stars, only to realize, that after uploading, they were still in their own bodies.

⁠no one ever explained why one would expect anything else to happen.

Yes just like cloning your body doesn't make that clone you, copying your brain won't make it you either... They are copies and therefore something other than you... even if they behave the same...

@@moshie61 Yes, that's a good way of putting it.

I think the same bro

That pain must have been psychological in nature, keep in mind the phantom limb syndrome

if you want to talk about the problems presented by fiction writers we could be here all day, but to address what seems to be your concern Cybermen would not be very useful if they have no feedback from their "bodies" just like the prosthetics which don't have positional tactile feedback a so much harder to operate. Like so many have discussed before, there is almost no limit to the range and kinds of senses that can be incorporated to placate and even enhance our environmental and self awareness. This is in large part what people find so fascinating about direct to brain BCI like Neurolink(Tm). Even just expanding the range of the light spectrum we can see by a little would be utterly mind blowing. Now imagine having control over a prehensile limb, remote control of switches an dials and other electronic utilities in your environment. Imagine being able to integrate with the sensors and controls of a drone or an avatar in a game. We can imagine heaven or hell depending on how these and other technologies are used, but you shouldn't let fear paralyze you into casual dismissal of the potential. Give it some thought. There's more to this than what your post seemed to portray.

Porque a Máquina não Pensa por si só e o Dissimulador que coordena o que foi Gravado e não o que o Ser humano Pensa. Pois 😃 Máquina não Pensa não Sonha não Dorme não caga não mija . E tem que ter um que Pense por Ela #

E por isso que eu penso em Transformem o Biden's Trump's e Bush Clinton Obama Putin e outros em Máquina como um Servant sobre o Controle 🎮🕹️ e assim que eu venho dizendo.#

Objects For Facts #

It’s different from cloning because value drift starts at the creation of the upload, whereas with a clone, value drift is ‘from birth’. If you share 20, 30, 40 years of your experience with another consciousness, you can be much more confident in how it will act in relation to how you want it to act, with a clone you have no idea what its personality might be. Plus you have to entirely re-educate a clone, while an upload starts with decades of experience.

@@Kratargon Be that as it may; it would still be another person having their own separate experiences. I see no use in that personally.

Glad someone else on here understands how limited this tech concept is. Anyone who signs up for this will not experience anything their snapshot experiences because they will be dead.

it would be hooked up to a AI system to speed up learning.

@@kristynsotelo1452 sources?

Developing in what sense?

@@bengsynthmusic develop in the sense of if it will behave the same when you're learning stuff etc. The connections in the brain are continually changing a little bit, just less as you grow older. I don't think anyone could model how these changes take place in a way that it behaves exactly the same.

Interesting , what is appealing to you about it ?

@@BenCaesar To be able to stick around and see what happens.

what if it required the total destruction of your organic brain to create an flawless copy?

A copy is just that: a copy. It's always going to be limited in detail and incomplete because a human brain has many different brain states. It sounds like we will succeed in creating a copy of something we still don't understand (the human brain) and will then just project onto it our desire to believe that what we are talking to is a copy of our loved ones when it's just some AI's best approximation based on its parameters and programmed assumptions. This video actually makes me feel like we are nowhere near what she wants to believe will happen. I like sci-fi too, but in the realm of actual science there's no room for this kind of aspirational projection. People are gonna be really disappointed when they see what their supposed copy actually amounts to in reality.

And there's the rub. How would I feel knowing I had just sent off an incarnation of myself into what might be the best digital paradise of Rudy Rucker's imagination? Oh great what fun I have cancer this sucks but hey... I can check out some frame-grabs of the digital orgy and smile! Well no way I'm going to let that guy have all the fun, he's a selfish bastard and I know it! Let that sick puppy loose in cyberspace? Not a chance! But... If I get to go... well that's different.

But at the end you will get unskipable advertisements 😅

@@igoromelchenko3482 In the end, it is useful.

@@igoromelchenko3482 For 99.99$/month, all ads are made redundant lol

Thank you I feel gaslighted, suddenly anyone who can code understands the secrets of consciousness all of a sudden

True enough, we don't know. However, simulating the brain is a lot more difficult than other organs, so the latter is presumed to be an easier challenge.

@TropicalCoder - "Can we think without a larynx?" ya excellent point! in programming there is the concept of a "blocking function"... a function that blocks the further execution of a thread until the function returns with its results lmao it would not surprise me one bit if the brain is extremely entangled with the peripheral nervous system and other modules in very non-trivial ways... and possibly in semi-dependent ways? i.e. maybe parts of the brain freeze up or enter dysfunction if they dont get a reply from the larynx? i have heard rumors that there is also a "gut-brain axis" that is very thick with the fibers and the interconnections, like lots and lots of them! if this is the case, it probably would make it a naive assumption that neuro-imaging specialists only need to scan "this bit over here", and that they can just ignore "all those bits over there" one can picture the possible surprise when this potential lurking dysfunction might be discovered in the future, being like those 1990s videos about AOL's "youve got mail" timing out, or the Windows file explorer trying to copy files over and timing out 😂😂 my guess is if this is the outcome, the researchers are going to respond by trying to excise "external dependencies" in the digital copy... by trying to reroute the fibers or cutting them in the digital version or something and probably that will lead to alot of chaos haha btw, speaking of larynxes, several people have noticed that the famous programmer John Carmack (who recently entered into a partnership with a Canadian AI researcher) used to have a "verbal tic", where he would emit these subtle grunts or like larynx noises or something... i cant help but wonder if that was correlated with the amount of thinking he was doing? :p also a buddy of mine started to experience aphasia when he started thinking too much a decade or two ago. he had to drop out of college and netflix/chill for like 9 months to kinda sorta get his speech back! haha in my opinion your comment is spot on! there are numerous signs that point to the humble larynx as playing an important part in da whole enchilada! :) 👽

And what if you interfaced with the copy and bridged consciousnesses and then phased out the biological one while connected so the experiences merged and then clipped. What then if the continuum was there? The experience uninterrupted? The remapping of experience on the bio NN prevent, thus no deviation between the copies prior to shutdown. Who's experience is truest there?

​@@JennaHartDemonYea that's what we need for it to not be too risky. Cus it's true a copy is just a copy, but if it can be proven it's not just a copy, it makes it more viable.

​@@JennaHartDemonIt would still only be communication between two copies and when the original is destroyed so are you.

​@@JennaHartDemonBut that's the thing! there's no way you can transfer the mind to the computer, because consciousness is the activity in our brains. If you stopped that activity, the consciousness of that person will be dead. You can only make a copy of the mind and have an AI clone version of you with the same experiences and personality. But the real you would be dead already. The only possible solution that I could think of is keeping your biological brain alive inside a vat while being connected to a computer. But I don't know how that would be possible without killing the person in the process.

​@@martiddy I think you are underestimating the flexibility of our meat computers. We can already interface with it to control digital limbs as an extension of ourselves. Next we will see brain implants that expand our cognitive abilities. If all our memories get stored in a chip and you keep replacing adding silicon bits to that biological brain matter, that black and white divide you see as insurmountable dissolves into a sea of grey possibilities.

A bio-mechanical ship of theseus

@@SimonAudiosuite This is true, but it is better than a mere copy, because some of the original consciousness and awareness, possibly the most vital bits, will be there.

Interesting. The mind could be like a fungus, if it can access a system, it can also remain in that system. This should be tested and experimented further upon. The concept that the mind grows out of the body is mind boggling. The mind might just be a matrix of the universe itself, thus why it could in theory grow into any matter. A mind inside of a mind, inside of a mind and so on. (edit) Like a simulation that simulates itself. If this is the case, we should not worry about our minds dying. Because they are just a branch of the infinite chain of mind. And we would just be thrown back into an earlier and older mind or a new mind from that same precursor mind. But we wouldn't mind, for we would have no memory of it.

You have a vibrant imagination, but the brain is not capable of functioning without the nervous system throughout the rest of the body

@@DeadzoneMusic That is true. But but we are talking about having the mind detached from the brain. The percieved continuity from the brain into another platform. The brain itself is a reality creating hardware device. And if we link that to an external proccess. What would then stop a merge of them? And if they are merged. Then both will be you. If you cut away one of your brain hemispheres right now, you are still you. And the hemisphere which is left will take up the slack and act as the brain. The machine could in theory do the same thing. The percieved continuity would change.

Very true. Think about a scenario like SOMA (if you haven’t played the game then PLAY IT) in which your conscience being transferred is based upon a coin-flip. Exciting and scary all at the same time!

@joe_limon Exactly thats the keypoint. We dont really know how consciousness is occuring in the brain. We have very vague knowledge about it... literally only two small pieces of knowledge : a) we are quiet sure, that consciousness ends when an organism dies. And b) we are sure, that with aenasthesia (narcotics) we lose consciousness temporarly. Thats literally our knowledge about what we can quiet sure. Beyond that, we have million theories - none of it is really proven. Sir Roger Penrose has in my opinion the best theories so far (microtubuli) about consciousness. Dont get me wrong, i am quiet sure, he is also wrong - but it is the ''best'' we have so far. We really need to figure out, what conscious actually is, and how it works - how it occurs in organisms. When we figured it out, we are able to work with it - like transfer it. Unfortunately it seems for me, we are at least hundreds of years away from it, probably even thousands of years away from it.

gradual uploading... in this way there would be continuity of consciousness.

@@Nico-di3qo Thats a claim. No prove for it, that it works. But i admit, its a good idea from you.

The enormous assumption here is that consciousness is "extractable", that it isn't simply a feature of our brain and its chemistry. As a thought experiment, imagine "extracting" a program from your computer and putting it in another one. There is no actual transfer: information is copied to another location, then deleted in the source. The program is just a pattern of states in the hardware. If you make a perfect copy, then it will be exactly the same. I see no reason to believe humans are any different. There's nothing to extract, only things to copy: neurons, hormones, microbiome, etc. If you succeed, you get a perfect copy that's indiscernible from the original, but still a copy, a second agent. Unless you destroy the original, then they both can exist at the same time and will immediately begin to diverge as they experience different situations and environments. At least that's what I think, Dunning-Kruger and everything.

Filmed back in 2000 Arnold Schwarzenegger did a movie called THE SIXTH DAY about a group of people who had effective immortality because if one of them were to die they would have their mind uploaded then have a new body cloned in a chemical vat and then once the body was fully cloned the mind would be "downloaded" into the brain of the new body. It was a bizarre movie.

​@@Zurroundbruh that movies spoiling reality

The technology doesn’t do that. At best, it can only fix someone from the perspective of everyone else. Going to the doctor to be killed so a healthy duplicate can be sent home to your family is not medicine, but madness.

Nothing to lose? WTF? What if you end up in a permanent nightmare inside some tech on a shelf?

@jdsguam I am holding out hope for option two: For lack of a better word, a "reset" of our own bodies that will stop or reverse aging. And eliminate disease at the same time. If I was terminal, I would rather volunteer for those kinds of experiments, and presumably, I would still retain the mind and body I have, just younger and disease free. Doesn't seem farfetched at all if we're talking seriously about uploading minds.

It should be pretty simple to simulate suitable default sensory input. For example, simulate the feeling of sitting in a chair ina room with light grey walls and smooth lighting - a generic experience would be enough to satisfy the mammalian enough to avoid going insane. In addition, if you do the scanning process willingly, you would be already thinking about it, which makes it easier to accept the results. The interesting part is that one version of your consciousness will go directly from the scanning moment to experiencing the fully digital simulation. The simulated sensory input for the simulated brain should probably start from generic scanning experience and continue from there. The interesting part is to launch multiple copies of yourself in the simulation and give each one different objective in digital life. For example, one copy of you could work forever to try to generate sustainable fusion power, another copy of you could focus on becoming a poet. Neither copy would never require a biological body to be successful in the objective they're pursuing!

Yep. And a cursory look at how our govts and corporations behave today leaves no doubt that they would happily pursue all of these avenues, and more. This technology is a nightmare.

That is horrifying and i never thought of that

New meaning to cyber security

Yes but based on activity in the environment, after initial placement. Neural nets that will replacement will do something mathematically equivalent.

These are very good points. I would add that we SERIOUSLY do not know how consciousness works, but it does involve an extremely complex interplay of physical and electrichemical phenomena in a highly dynamic, highly-dimensioned, "edge-of-chaos", metabolically sustained sequence of states. My sense, after considerable study, is that we're not even close to having this figured out enough to simulate it yet much less transfer "it".

imagine tomorrow you wake up and are completely paralyzed, can't see, can't hear, can't speak ... Now, this is how your uploaded mind will feel like ... Thus, my guess: this is torture enough ;-) Assume you could somehow reconnect with your uploaded self, what do you think/expect it would "tell" you? Maybe some new "inventions" or solutions for unsolved math-problems? I don't think so. My guess: "KILL ME! PLEASE!" ;-)

There is no consensus on what consciousness is. Personally, I think it's just the stream of items in working memory.

@@solifugus may be ... However ... - what would it "work" / live with since it's got no senses? - what would it "work" / live for since it's got no body and can not move? - how would it KNOW anything? ...

To be honest, i don't think it would feel as uploading. You, your consciousness, would still keep living in your own brain. You would make a copy of you that would travel the stars. But it wouldn't be you. There is no reason to believe that scanning and duplicating your brain would also transfer your consciousness. All that would happen is a robot that believes that it's you would be experience all those amazing things, while you would still be here, being sad realizing it didn't work as you imagined.

@@DrTheRich That can be said for the kind of uploading that Anastasia spoke of in this video, but there is another way that would involve a nanotech invasion or your brain. They would reside alongside your neurons and learn to mimic their individual functions so they can replace them whenever they die. At some point all of your biological neurons would be gone replace by electro-mechanical ones that were indistinguishable from the biological original. Even then a bifurcation (like a scanned duplicate) would be a separate individual entity whose conscious identity would diverge from the original such that remerging would be quite upsetting and unnatural (if it could even be done). Maybe I'm talking out my ass. Maybe if one grew up in a world where this was common place it wouldn't seem unnatural at all.

Read the Bobiverse series. 1st book, We are Legion Total 4 books Explores this very subject

@@DrTheRich We do not currently know how to move the stream of consciousness, but it's unlikely to be impossible, as it already emerged once from a different substrate (ie at birth). However, yes, it wouldn't be a mere duplication.

@@lilemont9302there is no "stream of consciousness", that's an illusion. as long as the information is more or less the same and the rules of the simulation are close enough to that of real neurons, there is no functional difference between living normally and uploading your brain. the pattern/structure is what matters, not the matter/substrate

You are right and that's why some people in the comments here are suggesting we slowly convert our brains piece by piece so that there's a consciousness continuum, in a sort of Ship of Theseus way. Even as a thought experiment, I've been struggling with this since back in the day of Dust 514, a video game with cloned mercs whose brains were scanned by implants at the moment of death and then imprinted on a fresh clone. Altered Carbon had a similar premise and it solved the copy problem … by making it illegal in-universe for more than one copy of a person to exist. (Delicious drama ensued.) I'm really curious what the psychological effects would be for society, people contemplating getting copied and people who are copies. Personally, I have no interest at all in getting copied, because I can't identify with a copy that can exist simultaneously with me. If I were a copy, my memories would create the illusion that I'm not, so I don't believe I'd dissociate from the original (or past copies), unless I really sat down and thought about it. Like, contemplating that I could be days old while having fond memories of events from decades ago. Finally, there's the classism of it all. I'd bet anything that rich narcissists would jump at the opportunity to get copied, even if there's no consciousness continuum. Through sheer narcissism, their consciousness would become immortal, amassing untold amounts of wealth and influence 😬

@@AlkisGDi have another comment elsewhere in the discussion section. A solution would be to simply extend our biological neocortex to artificial neocortex in the cloud, which would also be part of our consciousness. Luckily the neocortex is already modular and semi-redundant via cortical columns. We are unaware of their inner workings and only experience their communication as consciousness. Over time we wouldn’t recognize even if the biological parts would bit by bit be dying of, also we could that way synchronize the instance which contains biological aspects with completely non-biological based instances and the memories of their lives would also be synchronized with the, let’s say, hybrid instance. We might even have multiple bodies all at once, biological or otherwise plus much more virtual ones living in VR. So we would have all the advantages of mind uploading from the start plus our illusion of a continuous self could be maintained. But then even now the matter my body and brain are made of are entirely different from the me of 5 years ago, only the patterns in which they were assembled more or less survived. This would be the case in the above solution as the process would be both gradual and immediate thanks to the synchronization of instances.

@@AlkisGD deep thoughts, thanks. However, i think, knowing that i am a copy can very well be part of myself. I mean, i know i am the child of my parents, which is kinda a mingled copy of them. Nevertheless: me as an instance is me as an independently conscious instance, no matter if there's a flesh-and-bone first-born twin around or not. Yes, the rich narcissists. That's a political, or if you want, educational, problem. It exists with or without copying. Sadly hard to come by.

I think it's probable that if a perfect copy of your brain could be created, down to the sub-atomic level; even if we still don't understand consciousness, it will be enough. However, as this is extremely difficult computationally and scientifically, the hope is that we figure out how to do it with more imperfect replications of the current substrate.

@@ct5471 I prefer that we actually understand consciousness instead of accepting risks, but I do agree that your proposal is a good start.

Feelings are partly physiological and partly hormonal and partly mental. You'd still feel the resulting thought processes and possibly even the mental sensations of emotion, but not nessecarily the bodily ones unless they simulate the activity of your brain stem that connects to your spinal cord/body too. I imagine itd be like a phantom body.

Unless you’re like 70+ yrs old I think you’ll be around to catch that wave

Yeah, that probably won't be you anymore. But a kind of offspring

@@dchdch8290 We do not currently know how to move the stream of consciousness, but it's unlikely to be impossible, as it already emerged once from a different substrate (ie at birth).

Yeah I don’t get why all the geniuses in the video sound as delusional as some religious zealots..they sound like they’re living in a dreamland

We do not currently know how to move the stream of consciousness, but it's unlikely to be impossible, as it already emerged once from a different substrate (ie at birth).

@@lilemont9302 these guys are talking as if they know what it is, “we will be able to travel across the universe in silicone” sound like idiots

@@lc2c177 Fair enough.

@@lc2c177science always seems crazy at first. You just arent capable of anything other than linear thinking. Ape.

If consciousness has anything to do with information in the brain, that would be copied. Emotions have multiple aspects: -bodily and behavioral state -hormones/neurotransmitters -mental sensation and effect on thoughts A simulated brain might have simulated hormones and neurotransmitters, but might not. A simulated brain wouldn't have a body, but could simulate the activity of places where the body connects to the brain and cheat it that way. So i think there would be emotions but they might be different, less bodily more mental. The digital you might have alexithymia (the difficulty or inability to identify your emotions even if you do feel them). Autistic people often have a hard time identifying their emotions because they struggle with interoception(awareness of the body and things inside it). As an autistic person I'd imagine itd be sorta like how it was before i figured out how bring hungry but not yet starving felt, or how it was before i realized that fear makes my hands and feet feel cold.

Technically the copy already exists as uncompiled data ready to be processed when the models and machinery begin scrapping the records. You'd have to completely erase your history and hide from everyone and everything that you could affect forever.

yep, it has to be done in the ship of Theseus style, with neurons being replaced by transmitters that connect to a neuron simulation in a computer.

Reductionism fallacy at play here

Agreed. I think that's the only way it could work, and the "pattern" that is you, could survive.

there are theoretical ways but they are slow, very involved and risky

@@zanfr123 what are these theoretical ways?

Exactly. We don't even know for sure that consciousness is generated by the brain. There is no specific pattern of neural activity that we can point to and say "that is what generates consciousness". Not a single one. We don't even have a sensible hypothesis on what kind of pattern can generate consciousness. For all we know, consciousness, rather than being a result of patterns in physical matter, could be completely seperate from physical matter. Perhaps seperate from spacetime itself. We simply do not know. We know nothing about consciousness or the nature of experience and I'm tired of mainstream scientists pretending like they do.

@@cameronhuff5170 We indeed do not know, but the conclusion of this is not that it's somehow impossible to know.

Digital twins still have their uses, but of course, you're not wrong.

When the body dies the conciseness leaves the body. And it doesn't go into the machine. The person who was alive will not experience anything that the digital copy experiences. It's a chat bot with a dead persons face on it.

@@nonyabiz9340 The upload would have to occur while the person is alive so that it is stored and actuated on the computational substrate while only guiding the body remotely. Think like the movie Avatar. Therefore when the body dies the connection to the host body is severed but the consciousness continues in the computational substrate, perhaps in a virtual environment, until downloaded once again to guide a new body. Each one being a duplicate of yourself.

@@solomonmarshall6733 referencing a "substrate" in a pretend world is like saying faster than light travel is possible because they do it in star trek. Is it possible? Maybe in a thousand or more years. But current avatar tech is at the VR level, and if you're controlling an avatar already but if you die in real life you don't transfer into the game you were playing, your avatar just stops moving. Even if you program an AI to keep playing the game exactly like you would have, your body is dead and your consciousness is gone. Could we solve the digital consciousnes transfer one day? Maybe, but it's not 100 years away, it's 1000+ years away.

@@nonyabiz9340 Indeed there are already neuromorphic quantum supercomputers which not only match but even outperform the upper limits of the human brain's potential, capable of running multiple whole brain emulations which can then be used to enliven or pilot a variety of compatible substrates through wireless communication technologies, and in the case of biological automata, brain computer interfaces. And I mentioned the blue Avatar movie as a reference since much like it, the methodology involves the generation of a biological lifeform like the alien bodies in the movie, which are then piloted by the consciousnesses of the main characters. Substrate independence works in the same way in that you would upload your consciousness to an aforementioned neuromorphic module which would serve the purpose that your brain did, running your mind in an unbroken chain of continuity. This mind would occupy the generated biological or nonbiological substrates remotely, safe from interruption by the destruction of said substrate through it's location in the neuromorphic module. This technology already exists.

For one, no more stress over survival presuming you have backups. Cost of living can be the price of solar panels and hardware to run simulations, no more transit costs, no more physical labor that puts your health at risk, and far fewer things can temporarily kill you compared to something as simple as driving home from work. It would be a kind of relief laced with nostalgia for times when life was full of risk and danger.

you can't upload a mind because science has shown that the human mind is nonlocal in space and non-local in time. The human mind cannot be "captured" digitally like that because it doesn't exist in physical reality.

Inception