Hi, firstly I'm an electrical engineer. Pretty much everyone is right. Battery chemistry is a bit complicated, and all batteries degrade. You can get more lifetime recharges if you limit the charge (eg 20/80), however, you charge more often for the same distance. A 90/10 cycle is close to the sweet spot. The MINI 0-100 is actually 8-92 of the real capacity. Cell balancing also helps maintain battery health. It is worse depleting the battery fully than fully charging it. I personally go 100-20, which gives you around 125 miles (200km) range. If you need it, then going to 0 occasionally won't do much harm. Another design feature of the MINI is that you can replace individual cells, so you don't have to replace the battery entirely. If one cell is starting to show problems, it can be replaced on its own. By the time any of us really have to worry about degradation, I am guessing you would already have replaced the pack with up to date (eg 5 years+ better tech) batteries which are lighter, cheaper and have significantly more capacity. If I were looking into my crystal ball, I would say in 5-8 years, you could replace the pack (trading the old one in) for something that had double the capacity and somewhat lighter in the same size, for the equivalent of a major service on an ICE car. I checked out the CatL specs (battery manufacturer for the MINI) and they claim a maximum of 10% degredation over 500 cycles at 100% depth. With this in mind, charging once a week to 100% and driving to 0, would degrade 10% in 9.6 years. If they kept the buffers the same (ie. 8% top and bottom), you would use all your top buffer and only drop 2% capactity. In summary, I wouldn't be worried. PS. more damage is done to batteries by overheating than DOD. That is why old leaf batteries degraded so much - they weren't properly cooled.

I charge my MG ZS EV once a week on a Friday night. I don't have the ability to charge to a certain percentage so it's 100% every time. I am not going to worry about the battery heath. It's just not worth the bother.

personally I own a Bmw i3 from late 2016, about 30,000 miles (btw I am not in the car industry, nor linked to Bmw). My i3 has still more than 95% of the nominal capacity after 4 years now. I usually charge to 100%, however I avoid running low. Typically I plug-in whenever I can, even if the battery is still more than half full.

Battery Chemist Dr Euan McTurk says charging a car to 100 % is ok as long as you use the car straight away and don't leave it sitting at 100%. His KZfaq channel is Plug Life Television.

My new iPhone just notified me this morning “To reduce battery ageing, iPhone learns from your daily charging routine so it can wait to finish charging past 80% until you need to use it” Exactly how I charge my Tesla for a long journey.

It’s certainly something that will come to head within the next 8 years, I’m not convinced by what the manufacturers are telling us

Excellent topic. The mini has a total 3.7 kwt buffer of 32.6 kwt battery. I’m sure it will do that 70% for the number of years of warranty. If you going to keep it I would certainly follow the 80/20 rule or less depending on your driving needs that day. I have a 2019 Leaf e+ , with a 6 kwt buffer, that I might keep (or trade in for the Airya), so I only charge up to normally about 65%. Ev batteries love to stay in that 50% range and they easily could love 2 decades in that 40-60% range but then they are not practical for transportation.

So why did you downgrade to a car with less range when you switched from Kona to Mini? My Kona makes 350 km now in winter. I always charge to 80 percent. The limit feature ist easy to use and great. I guess I go to a 90 limit soon, because I think 90 will still not harm the battery at all.

I have a new VW e-up and find this analysis very interesting. The VW app allows me to charge overnight on Octopus Go rates and specify a maximum charge level. The app allows you to set up 3 charging profiles. I've selected charging the car up to 70%, 80% and 90%. My plan is that if I arrive home and the battery is at a fairly low state of charge I'll select 70% as the maximum charge. The hope being that I can charge to that level inside my 4 "off peak" hours. If I arrive home with a bit more charge I'll select 80%. So far, I'm managing to keep all my charging within the "off peak" rates, which I find very satisfying. I'd not planned on ever charging to 100%, unless I had a long trip planned. My takeaway from reading the comments is that it might help the battery cells to charge to 100% now and then, so I'll start doing that now.

Agree with having this discussion. Tesla is NOT the only manufacturer that recommends a charge limit. They recommend 90%, while others recommend 85%, or even 80%. Others like the MINI and I-PACE have no limit. I live in a very hot environment, and don't drive the vehicle every day so I would love a user cap to leave it at 70-80% most of the time. 100 miles or 70 miles means zip to me day-to-day, but battery health over years does.

What I've learned over 4.5 years with my Volt regarding battery degradation I'd to monitor how many kWh's you've used and what's remaining rather than miles. Don't go by projected miles or miles driven because it's subject to road conditions, weather, etc.

Never had an EV but I am intrigued. I’m here doing research.....thanks for the great info. From Texas. 🇺🇸

Very interesting analysis. One take away for me is that BMW will only replace the battery pack if it degrades below 70% during the warranty. If BMW was truly confident that degradation will be mild, that percentage could be much higher. 😱

I used to do 80:20 with my Zoe. I have no idea if it really made any difference because I sold the car at three years old and £19k miles. There was no reduction in range during that time.

Interesting self conversation. I had the same questions. My only preservation is this: not all batteries are created equal. The vaping community tackled different manufacturers of 18650s/26650s throughout the years. I'd check those forums for starters. Quality batteries see some degradation in 3-5 years, plateau, and show slight decline thereafter never leading to full failure. I think the 80% came from Toyota Prius' ideal charge state in the hybrid, but urban legends will prevail until scientists have adequate test subjects. Also, mini owner's manual states to keep charge above 80% for storing at or beyond 4 weeks of no driving. My prius was stored at 10-20% for a month or two and sometimes beyond 90%. I still have the same MPG given proper tire inflation.

That's why I'm so glad that the likes of Audi with the etron and Tesla and the Koreans specifically state in their infotainment system that for daily usage, set the limit to 80%, so then hopefully when I can afford one, I'll be going for one of them so at least I know it's more likely that the previous owner will have followed these guidelines.

Is 100% actually a 100% charge ? I believe there’s a buffer at top and bottom

I have a Mini SE. Degradation has to be real. What is the effect of rapid charging on the cells, surely cannot be as kind to them as trickle charging them with the charger that comes with the car.

I have a #28 Ioniq electric. I Mostly use it around town and although the car doesn't feature a selectable charge limit I'll try to stop charging at around 85%. I charge to 100% just before a long trip and pre COVID that was every 4 to six weeks so that is when the cell balancing would happen. At the moment, I drive my car twice per week ish so I'm not charging to 100% for it to sit at that charge level for a few days. As I've learned more about lithium ion batteries then I try to not charge my phone to 100% nor my fitness watch. I'm finding that doing this is resulting in my phone and watch batteries lasting much longer than they used to.

I test drove one of these today and I thought it was fabulous. Mini very accommodating too. I found it interesting that I won’t receive a car until March if I ordered today.

Things like this keeps me from buying an EV. I currently keep cars a long time, like many years. I don't want a car where I need range and not get it it over time. Plus worry about charging.... I like your vids.

e-niro manual 'recommends' 80-20, but just says try not to stay out of the 80-20 zone for an extended period, also it says to goto 100% about once a month to balance the cells, car scanner on obd2 the niro looks to have a 4-5% buffer, so you can't charge to a true 100% anyway

I'm sure MINI expected a car with such a short range would always be charged to 100%. I keep mine plugged in so I can pre-heat it before going out in the cold winter weather. That raises my electric bill, but it reduces the heat pump's hit on the range. Another reason to go to 100%: If it does shorten the battery life, I want it shortened to die before the warranty expires. My first gen-1 Honda Insight's battery died two months after the warranty elapsed.

I just remembered seeing a videa by a Renault battery engineer about five years ago where he said the buffer was used to hide battery degradation from the owner in the way you suggested. He also showed a graph explaining that degradation is at it's most rapid in the first year and is much slower and generally linear after that. In other words if you lose 5% of the capacity after a year that doesn't mean you will lose 10% after year two but a lot less than that.

I am a 30kw Leaf owner of 4 years, I only do mostly local journeys so keep the battery hovering around 50% most of the time, I obviously charge to 100% or a bit less when required. I have no home charger so occasionally charge (cable out the window) using the granny charger but mostly use 7kw destination chargers (3.3kw for me) with the occasional rapid for longer journeys. My battery state of health according to Leafspy is currently 93% at 18000 miles, so looking after the battery does imho work. I agree with your opinion btw.

I noted similar with the MG ZS EV and groups, limiting charge to 80% was not possible with the car, and people aggressively asserted that charging to, and leaving it at 100% caused no harm. Whereas every reputable source on battery care says that leaving lithium batteries at 100% causes degradation, more degradation than a complete discharge to 0%.

This is my second car that is stored for weeks at a time. I would prefer to leave it plugged in at 60% - 80% rather than 100%. I am using a timed charging cycle so that at least it drains a bit rather than leaving at 100%. As a Tesla owner I find it surprising that a charging limit is not an option on the Mini. BT I love this car for around town. If you can afford to have this as a second car, I highly recommend this car.

Thanks Nigel, very interesting topic. I was actually looking into the SOH subject earlier this week about my Kona and also discovered the "rumour" about the 70 or 100% SOH display. I even saw my local garage yesterday (went to purchase a boot protection) and asked, but he couldn't give a clear answer. As I have not found a single Kona owner with a value other than 100%, looks like it might be true. Did your Kona's SOH ever go lower than 100%? As for the battery usage, I admit I also do the 20-80% approach. At worst it cannot hurt, at best, it can prolong the lifespan of the battery. And I drive 110-120km per day, at - 5C currently.

Carwow have just run a test on KZfaq of several small electric cars including the Mini. They ran all the cars at the same time together down the motorway at 70 mph until the GOM showed very low state of charge, at which point they vacated the motorway and continued until the car stopped. Interestingly the Mini did a further 20 miles after the GOM indicated zero, for a total range of 154 miles. That suggests a bottom buffer of 5kWh or so. An interesting video you have posted. I am with you on the 20/80 charging. If I owned one that would fit my day to day driving with the occasional 100% charge.

I am a Solar guy that has been in it since the late 80's. I have experimented with different battery chemistries for years. It all comes down to each individual chemistry and charging profile. One thing that I will say is that when you have lots of cells wired together there comes a point where you must equalize them all. Meaning that you need to do a deeper discharge and a sustained full top or over charge for a short period of time. It calibrates all of the cells to each other so that you get a more even pull and push off of each individual cell. You will get some cells with a lower resistance than others and that is just going to happen. Overcharging or top charging all of the time is bad for the batteries. Drawing down to zero or almost no charge is bad for the batteries and can brick the battery pack. The battery management will not be able to bring the pack back off of the bottom and you will be done. Old simple stupid battery chargers can or could do it but they will also cook a battery to death or start a battery on fire. Modern battery smart chargers and battery management systems prevent most all of that damage. Fast DC charging all of the time cooks the batteries. Fast DC charging once a month or every couple months would actually benefit the battery pack. With Lithium chemistry batteries it is good to discharge down to 5% and then charge all the way up to 100%. Let the car set for 30 minutes and then drive it back down to about 20% and let it set overnight to cool down. The next day or night plug it in to a low power 220v or 110 volt charger and let it slowly top all of the way off. This will allow the battery management system to balance all of the cells against each other. I have been experimenting and playing with battery charge profiles and chargers for years. I have stress tested and abused batteries to failure to see what happens. The most robust batteries usually have the smallest charge windows. The most high capacity or energy dense batteries have the most complicated charge profiles and do not like abuse. I got twice the age and use out of a set of Deep cycle lead acid batteries than they were designed to be capable of. They were left outside in the elements with only a plastic deck box cover and used to power a Solar System. They have lasted 12 years and are just now starting to degrade. I have 20 year old NiCad batteries that are 20 years old and still have about 80% capacity in them. I have Lithium Ion batteries that are 5 years old and gone and others that are 15 years old and still about 90% capacity. I have NiMh batteries that are 10 years old and starting to loose capacity. They all need to be treated differently. Lithium batteries cannot be allowed freeze or see temperatures above 120 degrees Fahrenheit. The high temp above 120 is when they start to degrade. That is charge them above 120. They can go as high as 140 during a discharge but they better be cooling down and not heating up above that temp while discharging. A good full charge quickly when it is cooler out once in awhile will keep them healthy but not all of the time or more than once a week if you can help it. Otherwise stop at 90% if you don't know what the upper buffer is.

BMW fraternity is suggesting 100% max charge because of the lack of range overall. Its to save face that its just too little range.

Truth- there is a very small ‘buffer’ with everyones battery packs for added safety..if you only charge up to your required amount daily, your battery degradation will be lower…given it is less than 100%. So just charge less when you need less as a rule and your pack should degrade less over time.

Mini model 3, charging to 90% for daily town driving and 100% at weekends for longer runs. I start to think about charging at 20%.

My guess is that battery has bigger top buffer than manufacturer says, and bms gives more of that buffer to use over the years, so even 8 years old battery still can do 70% of original factory promise, and manufacturer don't have to give free new battery on warranty.

Almost certain that all your points are valid, mainly to hide the fact that there's probably a great variance in battery quality in the production lines. Having worked in electronic manufacturing where you'd expect 100% of the product to be the same, it rarely is (component tolerance etc etc), so you aim for an acceptable figure. You may get some outside this on either side. If you're lucky you'll get it on the high side and you have a golden copy. I bet there's a good few percent difference between the batteries and other components in the car. BMW (and others) probably normalise this and give some people bigger or smaller buffers. Which you have will be hard to find. After all dyno 10 on the same ICE cars and see the results. All over the place! As for the charging to 80%, yeah you know in your heart that's best. If 100% was for balancing they're going out of balance crazy fast. I just don't believe it. If they said charge to 100% every couple of months ok, but every time? Jimmy Hill....

I’ve gone the other way, sort of. I’ve gone from an 94Ah i3 (with REx) to Kona. I had my i3 for just under 4 years and 70k miles. I did a full charge nearly every “school day” with 2x50 mile (70mph for most of it) round trips and a bit of running round everyday, so down below 10% nearly every time. Didn’t notice any significant degradation in that time, still charged to 100% and range appeared to be similar when I sold it as when I first got it (with obvious changes through out the calendar year). IMO the trouble with the 80 20 method is it just adds another layer of complication and worry to ownership. Which for people with ICE cars appears (wrongly) to already be complicated enough. Battery packs are bigger than we can charge to anyway, so you never go 100% anyway. Note, I’m an electrical engineer, I don’t say that to sound like I’m an expert (I’m mostly networks anyway) it’s to say i probably worry less about this than most, in a painter never worries about painting his house kind of way. Give my experience with the i3, I’m charging the Kona to 100% every night. Most days I have about 50% left although I do get it down below 20 now and again. I guess I’ll see how it goes.

In its In its category the mini is one of the best to drive, dynamics are good, its a nice place to be. It's expensive though, and it has the smallest battery in its class. Charging speed is also under par with most of its rivals like Peugeot charging @ 100 KWh with larger batteries, Its a stylish car but I do not want to my compromise drive without heating set to my requirements because of range. When they make aCountryman with a 50 KwH battery that charges at 125 KWh I will buy one. BMW are keeping quite about the recommended charging and degradation, because 80% of 100 miles makes the Mini an even worse proposition.

And the moral of the story is that you should not take "advice" on your EV from public forums... That said, my 2015 Soul EV had a software update on the BMS in August this year and it's increased available battery capacity and also removed the 83% limit that was there on DC/Chademo charging, so clearly there is a lot the manufacturers can do with tweaking software. Oh and do you have a rouge plant pot of your drive Nigel? ;-)

Plenty of people won’t buy the Mini Electric with a claimed range of 145 miles, which every owner knows is absolute fiction. Currently (January 2021) 100 miles is as much as I can hope for on a charge. I think you’re right, if degradation is deliberately being ignored to make the car useable, that is a concern for long term use of the vehicle. For me, it’s not a consideration as my car is on a PCP and therefore will be handed back on its third birthday. As long as the bodywork is in good nick and I haven’t done excess mileage there’ll be no more to pay. Good luck to the next owner though as that battery will have been from 1-100% more times than I’ve had hot dinners.

Okay there are some good answers above, now ask yourself why there are top and bottom buffers. The bottom buffer ultimately helps prevent destroyed battery cells due to under-volting them. At 0% you may get a few more miles depending on driving style and/or manufacturer implementation. A top buffer can help with battery-degradation can improve charging speed at the top end and is somewhere to dump the regenerative braking energy. These all depend upon manufacturer implementation, not all cars have a top buffer, and this may lead to certain manufacturers saying "only charge to 100% if you need the range but don't leave it there for any extended period"

From what I understand is 100% is fine because of built in buffer so any degradation is automatically adjusted but who knows for sure?

If BMW warranty is 70 % any purchaser must buy a car who's range meets their needs at 71% because that's what they maybe left with. Could you live with 71mile range car , would anyone buy a 2md hand car with only 71 miles ?

I wonder if the latest batteries should have their own “odometer” or “Wattometer” to show the total energy discharged over the lifetime. The new Hyundai Ionic 6 allows you to essentially run a refrigerator off of it. If someone does that a lot, it will decouple the miles=battery use equation.

I have no doubt that they would use the top buffer to give back any degradation until the buffer is used up. It will make the resale value of used evs decline however as people wake up to this tactic. I'm not a fan of over regulation however I do think that automakers should have to provide full degradation figures in some transparent way. People have the right to know what they are buying either new or second hand.

10:00 I don’t think that’s manufacturers are being deceitful. We know Tesla and other manufacturers are adjusting the net capacity as the battery ages. As they degrade they eat into that to stabilise the range. In the end they are trying to give you what you paid for, so I don’t it’s a huge issue. I think Nissan in giving the health status have invited trouble in displaying degradation. They also didn’t help by having less then stela battery management and cooling. I see VW in their ID3 give battery health advice in the manual. They are saying to limit DC charging where possible and to charge to 80% on a more regular basis.

Very interesting video thank you. Watching the video is it me or was your steering column wobbling a bit?

80/20? If one really needs that kind of range window go for it. Personally I do 75/45. Better for battery cycles in the long rong. Cell balancing doesn't need to happen all the time.

Finally got to bottom of comments. Not read all fine details. I will add my position. Corsa e. Winter time I keep charge above 50% so I can Pre Heat the Car Cabin and up to 85%. Only travel around town short mileage. Do 100% charge about once every two Months. Don't know if this is good or bad ? Sitting in car with heating on, after 10 mins stops and shows Battery Symbol. heating seems to use a lot of charge. However, still like the car.

All current Li- Ion batteries last longer when kept between 20 - 80% It is fine to go above and below but for everyday driving most people do not need to. Some people take very good care of things they own and some others abuse their possessions. All Electric vehicles should come with a minimum of 200 mile range so there should not be a need to charge to 100% for daily driving. As more tools around the house become electric (drills, lawn mowers, snow blowers, hedge trimmers, water craft, snow mobiles, ebikes, electric motor cycles....) charge limit and longevity is something to think about. You do not want to store a tool or vehicle at 100% charge for months on end.

having talked with a battery expert in aerospace, not linked to the car industry. She advised not to deeply discharge batteries, worst thing you can do. On the other hand, charging car batteries to 100% is fine, even quick charging is fine, if temperature is kept within an optimal range (e.g. with active temperature management). Batteries in cars have capacity margins to the top and bottom. It is much about design and cooling.

With my Ioniq battery is 38.3kwh usable but has 41kwh. I charge when battery is down to 20% to 30% up to 100%. Battery's have heater so small charges would use more energy than full charge. On rapid I have limit set at 80% due to slowing charge rate after 80%. I feel that battery life is down to the number of charges and how much you use DC charger's.

So if a car is 3 years old and it's done 300k miles are you really expecting 100% remember it's not just age but especially mileage counts.

I keep hearing the BMS lies to us and tells us your at 100% of a 29kWh battery when really you are at 90% of a 32.6kWh battery. I did buy the 2022 SE and love it

I have about same usable capacity in my battery but charge to 100% never leave it at that though for long and only have granny charger at home. My Ioniq has no option to set it for 80% or any level unlike new Ioniq. I usually only charge once or twice a week.

Shouldn’t you slow charge to 100% then immediately use 20 to 80%?

I've just got my electric mini, I've charged it from 50% to 100% twice now and i've noticed in Green + i'm only getting an estimated range of 110 miles... does this go up at all after a few charges? or is it under estimating the actual range? because the GOM is pessimistic

The biggest problem is where 100% is being marked. Back down to a simplistic level are we saying that 100% is 4.2v per cell or (like my 18650 charger) 100% is set at 4.05v. The cycle life at 4.05v is massively increased over 4.2v. On another note Mini owners Vs Hyundai owners is nothing new. Different mindsets. This was the same as ICE owners. Toyota owners on servicing saying their engine will last half a million miles and BMW owners saying I only keep the car 2-3 years so don't care. The same mentally has now just moved to EV's.

The depreciation of the cars value from driving it off the forecourt, is surely a factor that you must take into account in regards to battery maintenance. The impact should be a financial decision, if you are leasing or pcp the car over a two or three year period then you should maximise the benefit useable benefit and utility of the vehicle for your own here and now day to day driving requirements.

Are you over thinking this ?

Understand what you’re getting at there, just wish I knew enough about electrikerick and battery chemistry to evaluate, my Ioniq has no option to set 80% etc, I charge overnight so car software deicides when it’s done, this could indeed be a formula to hide degradation maybe 🤔

So what there is a buffer. It should show degradation on display, period. I was thinking about the Mini, but can't imagine loosing range as little as it is. Maybe I''' look for a different car. Perhaps buy a 500e cheap and run it until it's done, only out 5k rather than 20-30k. This is another reason why we sholud buy used EV's and wait for depreciation drops.

Whilst I think the mini is a lovely looking well engineered car, I was really surprised you went for the mini, with a 60 mile range charging on a 20%-80% charge cycle. If balancing the battery cells require an occasional 100% charge how can that happen if the mini has a large upper buffer. If warranty is no less degradation than 70% that would really chop a lot of the battery range.

This is just an evolution of EV technology, of course there is a lifetime consequence, but they don't want you worrying about it, like you wouldn't of worried about starting your ICE on a cold morning, or thrashing the turbo a little outside of core operating temperature.

Eye opening.

Your given examples don't factor in the percentage of DC rapid charging compared to the slower AC home charging (the battery is only DC charged so even that definition is silly it should just be fast and slow), enjoy your mini, don't worry about how others think how you use it.

Our 2019 28kWh Ioniq has no upper charge limit, so the only way for us to do that would be to calculate and use a timer on the zappi. So most days it ends up on 100% Edit: we had had it for 18 months and have already done 69,000km. The GOM still shows the we can achieve the 230km or more. We haven't noticed any degradation as of yet but as you said Hyundai may have hid it in the upper buffer and we are yet to see it.

Degradation is real, but every next year less degradation (certainly in kWh) is suffered, in equal use.

Would be good if there was a regulatory minimum degradation rate, eg 1% per 5,000 miles or something

With a buffer it's better. But some chemistries are actually really fine with it.

Good analysis again. I charge mine to 100% because it’s got an 8-year warranty and I very much doubt I’ll keep it for 8-years, so I don’t care. We don’t know what battery technology they are using, it may not be Li-ion and could be LifePO4 which have a much longer cycle life. I’m with you, that the BMS is charging to ~90% and reporting that as 100%, but if regularly charged to 100% it will use that to charging to balance the cells, which is very important to maintain capacity and life, that’s exactly what my model aircraft battery charger does and my batteries have had 00’s of charge cycles and still give the same flight times, so I don’t see capacity dropping, most are about 5-years old. You’ve read the manual as my first job tomorrow morning is to find out how to get the clock on the centre console, exactly what I want🙂 didn’t know it had that capability.

Hi! First. I like your video angles. For the dashborad, steering wheel view, thank you. I charge the Kona to 100%. I bought it to long range and now is winter too, so the range is less. It's a tool which i want to use how good for me. Hyundai gave me 8 year(100000 miles) waranty, it will be theirs problem. The problem is for me is that they all lying all the time. It's bother me a lot. :(

How many miles will the mini go with 80%chrage?

It's your car, do what you want. EVs aren't old enough to get real world stats. I have an 8.5 year old Imiev, always charged 100% with no noticeable loss. Also have a 5 year old PHEV where battery gets fully used. Chill man.

Of course 100% is not 100% because the manufacturer doesn’t let you run to actual 100% of battery capacity.

Very interesting thoughts, to start with I thought you were putting on your tinfoil hat ha ha. But a lot makes sense though I'm wondering if there could be another reason for the i3 degradation, battery cell damage? 20% is a serious amount of loss.

Don’t worry about charging to 100%..just get rid of the damn thing before the warranty expires…🌝

Thanks great video. Maybe contact euran mcturk he’s a battery expert on KZfaq, I did and he said charging to 80% is best but once a month 100% to balance the cells etc but don’t leave at 100% more than a day or so if I remember that’s what he said . So I charge to 80-85 % at most unless going on a trip and if I miss calculate or on monthly balance and if not going to use car that day I go out on 15-20 miles trip and drop it down to high 80s % on a Zoe ze50 but have seen reports of good few 22s and 40s Zoe’s done 70-80 or more k miles and been in the high 90s state of health from can ze data . So Zoe is good at looking after the battery but like you said I’m looking at keeping our car good while so want to do the right think by look after our battery but if ze50 is as good as past Zoe battery’s , don’t need to worry but always be safe if you can. I wish Zoe had battery limit I would use it .

Charged my 2016 Fiat 500e to 100% daily and was still able to drive it 90+miles a day 6 years later 🫤.

Tesla recommend that storing their car at half charge, My MS is sat at 151 miles currently Tesla are a leading EV manufacturer using Panasonic batteries.

Battery degradation is real, that's for sure. It also depends on lots of factors, although most of them merge into just one main reason: temperature. Worst case scenario: you drive like a hooligan at 40 degrees celsius (2 million fahrenheit or sth like that), you deplet the battery, then fast charge it and keep on going. That is hell for a battery. You will get degradation really fast. Internal battery resistance changes as it deplets thus creating more heat. Charging creates heat. Asking for lots of power equals heat. Heat, heat, heat. We should get more info on internal heat on the cells in electric cars, that could tell us techies a lot more info on what to and what not to do next with our EV, but they prefer giving us miles guess-timators for some reason. Lastly, remember battery degradations is not linear, so if you lose 10% in say 2 years that does not mean you are going to be losing 30 in 6 years. First percentages go way faster... Anyways, thanks to BMW's trick on the i3 we know already that degradation is mostly OK, there have been some with wild degradation, then again most acknowledge their cars live under hellish sun in florida, texas and the likes. Don't go crazy, take a little care of your mini, just a tiny bit, and it should be ok for years to come. I don't think BMW tries to cheat or sth... they are just very conservative, like... very german u know? They do the same thing with acceleration and no one seems to complain about that 😝

Why can you not just believe the manufacturer? It could be that Hyundai drivers are worriers and over cautious. If you want to do 80 / 20 then please do, let others do what they want. To be honest you sound more like a conspiracy theorist.

My Renault Zoe shows battery health with OBD dongle and app, example my zoe40 shows 95% health and car has 33.000 kilometers.

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Hi battery degradation is going to happen even if you do everything to try and stop it. According to the guy who hosts plug life television who by the way is a battery chemist did a video on this very subject and his conclusions were you can charge to 100% because firstly the battery has a top and bottom buffer as well as the BMS prevents over charging. Two things that damage the battery the most is heat and allowing the battery to discharge to empty and leaving it for long periods witch would allow the battery to go below the bottom buffer. Batteries life spans are based on charge cycles. So in theory the bigger the battery the less you have to charge the longer the battery should last. As you say if you adopted the 20 to 80% rule with cars like the mini ‘ Honda e they would become to difficult to live with by a lot of people. I do charge our Kia e Niro to 90% 100% when we are going on long trips and charge it when it gets down to about 15% just so we always have enough charge in case of emergency. Lastly there is a chap on KZfaq that goes by the name of cabbie 007 who if you hadn’t guest is a taxi driver in London who drives a Kia e Niro and on his last update he had covered 55,000 miles and his batteries state of health was still 100% and that’s been charged mainly by rapid chargers. So make of that what you will.