Please view my updated video with settings to reduce pulsing. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/op2EeNhiuc3VZX0.html Sigma have responded that the Sigma 150-600C is not compatible with the Eye Tracking Servo mode of the Canon mirrorless bodies. You will need to use single shot AF to get accurate autofocus. The AF will still work in tracking mode but you will get inconsistent focus as I have demonstrated. Cheers, Duade

This is a very important video for all mirrorless users with 3rd party lenses. We have always struggled with this focussing issue.

Hi Duade another great video, using a clear language and a honest approach. In fact I had similar issue with the Canon EF 100-400 IS II. The target (a small bird in a busy background) was just in front of the lens but the camera was struggling to find it. I purposely manually de-focus and try to focus again but it was to late as my beautiful subject was gone. I hope Canon will take a look on this issue because R5 is quite pricy.

I have a solution for you! I was about to sell my sigma 150-600mm C because of inconsistent focus during servo AF on the Canon R5. I used the lens on many DSLRs for many years with no issues. The symptom is AF was going in and out on the subject and misfocusing half of the time. My thinking is the R5 focusing system is too fast for the lens to keep up with. My observation is the R5 is driving this lens focus multiple times faster than a DSLR. I decided to dig further and I was able to fix the AF problem. The solution is to set the AF Speed Setting to Smooth AF Priority using the sigma dock. Now the lens AF is very consistent and the focusing speed is still very fast with the adjustment.

Thanks for sharing these important issues! I use a 5D-4 + 150-600 Sigma to wildlife and landscape in South Brazil, Patagonia, Falklands and Antarctica. Happy with results. Also use 80D - good results. Keeping my DSLRs for the near future. Many thanks! Best wishes from South Brazil.

I got the Sigma 150-600 Sport at the start of the year and used it with my R6 for bird photography, but I wasn't getting the results others seemed to be getting with the lens. I hadn't noticed the pulsing issue you mentioned, I just knew I seemed to be getting inconsistent results. I also found it difficult to get birds in flight with the R6 and Sigma. I've now got the RF100-500mm and I couldn't believe the difference in my bird photography. I'm getting way more keepers and plenty of sharp shots of birds in flight. There's definitely a communication issue between the Sigma and the R6. Thanks for your video, it has helped a lot.

I use the Sigma 150-600 Contemporary on my Canon DSLR as well as my Sony A7r2. I've experienced the same "pulsing" behaviour on the mirrorless body. From what I've observed and read I think what is at play is the difference in auto focus technologies. The DSLRs used USM and "hypersonic" motors to drive groups of lens elements in a linear fashion. Mirrorless lenses tend to use stepping motors driving a lighter single lens element and rely on being able to rapidly accelerate and decelerate that single element when acquiring focus. When using an adapted DSLR lens the motor doesn't have the torque to quickly move and stop the heavier groups so every now and again the lens fails to keep up with the information coming from the camera. Now I suspect when you use the native Canon EF glass on the R series bodies the camera can read that it is using an EF lens and it slightly throttles back the process so the lens can keep up, but with the Tamron and Sigma EF glass being so called "reverse" engineered they are not being recognised by the camera so it carries on as if it is a native RF lens. I've only noticed this phenomena on longer larger heavier lenses. It doesn't seem to happen on lightweight lenses.

As far as the issue of grabbing a background and annoyingly sticking to it I experienced this. I’ve done some research and it seems to happen on the other brands also. In my case I reported it on a forum and the fan boys were hurling “user error” stones at me for suggesting that a DSLR could outperform a mirrorless in this scenario. Rick Perry has a video on this too where he perfectly communicated that “mirrorless cameras Love backgrounds”. When this initially happened to me I was certain my R5 was defective. Like yourself when I encounter it I often use the ground to bring back focus. Good on you for making this video to help others out who may be new to mirrorless like myself

I recently found a forum on this subject. I suffer the same issue with my R5 and Sigma 60-600mm. They suggest putting your lens on the Sigma dock and reset the lens. This has helped me considerably.

Last weekend I went to photograph butterflies and I experienced the same issue. I was using the Canon EF 70-200mm. So it might not be only with 3d-party lenses but not RF lenses. I didn't now how to solve it in the field and that's why I'm watching your video. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll try the solutions next time.

Duade, This is the best explanation of the weaknesses mirrorless AF systems that I have found. Thank you very much. I recently switched from Canon 7D Mark ii to Canon R7 and was very disappointed when I took it birding in the forest where my subjects were sandwiched in between background foliage and foreground foliage. My 7D Mark ii could handle that much better. The birds are going to have to sit still longer now if I am going to get their image with the R7. I am learning to use the focus ring which I haven t touched in years! I recognize that mirrorless is the future, but like you I lament this loss in focus capability.

Thank you very much in pointing out the pulsing issue in 3rd party lens. This certainly justifies the native lens at the end of the day.

Interesting video, Duade. Personally, I am not concerned about the fact that the system kept focus on the "background"; I have lost so many shots of wildlife because the camera focused on a twig or leaf that was between me and my subject. I would prefer that, if it has to be sticky, it favours the background more. Glad to see the RF lens had no issues whatsoever.

Thank you Donald for your expertise. I understand now that I am not alone with this pulsing problem. My old EF500mm f4 has less pulsing than my new RF100-500, both used with an R5. Maybe the reason is that the focus acquisition is slower with the EF500? However, what is incredible with the R5/RF100-500 combo is the ability to follow a small bird like a warbler in focus through the branches of a tree.

Thanks Duade! This was a much anticipated video. I currently work with the R5 and the native 100-500 from Canon and am super happy with it. the Sigma would be a nice option because of the additional reach but I guess being used to the almost flawless performance of the 100-500 the Sigma would be a bit of a disappointment. I got to say though that even the 100-500 and R5 sometimes stubbornly focus on the background and for the love of god can‘t be convinced to focus on the subject

I have exactly the pulsing issue with my Tamron 100-400 on R6. The issue reduces a fair bit after I started using BBF but still miss quite a few shots. The latest firmware (version 1.50) improves the situation further but the problem remains.

Interesting. I had similar issues when shooting shore birds with a Tamron 150-600 G2 on an R6. The birds were a good distance away, farther than you were with your birds. The camera kept focusing on specular highlights on the background waves instead of the sandpipers. I had to manually bring focus onto or near the birds before focus locked into them. I eventually got both an R5 and an RF 100-500. In limited use with birds, the 100-500 picked up birds even with somewhat busy backgrounds or low light unless they're really far away.

Thanks Duade. The AF is a big issue for me. So I looked into all viable options and found out this: For Canon Mirrorless, the only proper AF lens as of now (under $3k) is Canon RF 100-500mm which is $2000 more than Sigma 150-600 C & $900 more than Sigma sports. For sony's mirrorless body, instead of Sigma 150-600 Sports, a better choice would be Sony 200-600G lens ($600 more but worth it in all aspects). Plus in sony ecosystem, you can get Tamron 35-150 f/2-2.8 to replace 3 to 5 lenses too which is what I decided to go with instead of buying a Canon R6/R5 & Sigma/Tamron 150-600.

Another great video Duade, I spoke to you before about this issue it's a real pain at times, I thought it was a R5 problem but I spoke to a Canon Explorer of Light and he said it's a mirrorless issue across all brands, I had a play with my R3 today for the first time, and it's amazing, and although I think it does work better than the R5 with my Canon 600mm F4 MK2 this focus problem you show is still there, I have just learned like you manual override or focus at the bottom and come up, other than that I just love the mirrorless system, hopefully one day they will sort it, keep the videos coming.

Good day mate. It is important to update the sigmas firmware. Had similar issues with my 7d mark2 until I updated the lenses firmware. Friend uses it on his Canon M5 which is also mirrorless with far inferior focussing system to the R5 yet it has none of these issues. I promise you it will make a world of difference once it is updated

I have had quite a few mirrorless cameras in past few years, now have the R5 with 100-500. The others were a mix of Olympus and Panasonic and the odd older Sony, all of them had similar focus issues like you describe. I just assumed that it is an issue with the type of system, however the R5 eye autofocus is a game changer for me, it’s magic when it works which is perhaps 85 percent of the time. I get over the problem by swearing and giving up, works fine. 👍

Great video Duade. My wife has a 150-600 Sigma sport lens and has had a lot of issues with it on her R5. It works well on her 5d4, but doesn't work well on her R5. Yet her 100-500L works perfectly on it. She has had the exact same issue with the butterflies.

I’ve seen your previous video covering the same subject and have also watched a video on the Wildlife Inspired channel that was posted about 9 months ago where he mentions exactly the same thing using his Nikon Z Mirrorless cameras. He also said sometimes when running workshops he can hear other mirrorless users of various brands cursing when they experience the same problem. In the video he explained that he never experiences the issue when using his Nikon D4S DSLR from 2014 and it works flawlessly. He said it’s like using a massive jump in technology. So it sounds there is still a bit of improvement to be done with AF on Mirrorless. I shoot with a Nikon 500mm PF on my Nikon DSLR and use the focus memory button on the lens which with a press can take me back to a saved focal distance. That would be helpful if it was on the Sigma.

Thanks Duade…I have mentioned before about the issues I am having with soft shots on the R5..I have been so disappointed with it I have sent it back to Canon to have a look at… what you have described here may be the issue as I use the canon 400 5.6, 600 f4 non IS, and the Sigma 150-600 sport…. I have upgraded the Sigma to the latest firmware while the R5 has been at canon so can’t wait to get it back to see if there were any improvements. The old Canon 600 probably hunts as I can hear it grinding away even though it should have already achieved focus. You definitely need to turn the IBIS off with the 600 as it dramatically improves focus time.

So pleased that you released this video Duade, thanks for taking the time to do it. I have only had the R5 for a couple of weeks and I am using it with the Sigma 150-600 Sports, both the camera and the lens are on the latest firmware. I was a bit discouraged by the number of soft images despite the Show Focus Point plugin in Lightroom showing the focus dead on a bird's eye. I have learned to cope with the background focus issue as I have just put it down to shooting with mirrorless and I am already getting use to it. I have also been shooting with the Canon 70-200 f/2.8 with a 2x Tele and the focus has been simply awesome. I have the Sigma Dock and as per one of the previous comments I am going to try switching the focus from Speed to Accuracy and see if that makes a difference. At least your video has convinced me that I don't have a faulty R5..Thanks again!

When you have the autofocus issues with a zoom lens, try quickly zooming out, focussing, then zooming back in and refocussing. The added depth of field wiwhen zoomed out gives the autofocus a much better chance of seeing the subject, and zooming the lens out and back in is pretty quick. I hope this works with your set up.

Thank you. Very interesting and informative. I have had the exact same issue wtih my R6 and Sigma 150-600mm C. Great to have this explained in detail. Even if there is no solution to that issue at the moment, at least I now understand what is going on.

I have been using the Sigma 70-200 sports lens on r5, it works flawlessly, thanks for the observation. great channel.

So I did plenty of in-the-field testing and comparing of Sigma (Sport) and RF 100-500 which I now own. I was debating whether to keep the Sigma as backup or for my Fuji X-H1 with the Fringer adapter. These are my conclusions (I hope this may be helpful to others): - With the Sigma, I set the customization mode 1 to "fast AF priority" and the focusing improved, but is still not 100%. - With the Sigma attached, shooting the R5 in crop mode also improved the AF. - Despite all this, it still seems to backfocus when shooting in FULL. Examples: eyes of owl sharp, belly not; squirrel on a fence at 45 degree angle, focus on eye is sharp, rest of body is not (at this angle the body was 'in front of' the eye - focal point); same squirrel with focus on his tail, everything is sharp now (body and head/eye were now 'behind' the focal point on the tail). - Using Zone AF "might" improve the AF issues, I have not been able to test that yet, but I must say, I bought the R5 for its eye AF. - Indeed, single AF works better, but I bought the R5 for action/tracking. - HOWEVER, when your subject is WELL-LIT or NOT TOO FAR - let's say 10-15 yards, the focus works well! I believe this is a communication problem between the (excellent!) lens and the (excellent) R5. A firmware update from Canon could possibly fix this. I have, however, little hope that Canon would do that (they want you to buy their own overpriced lenses). So I went ahead and bought the RF 100-500, which I had resisted doing for a long time. - The RF and the Sigma are equally sharp at 500mm - really! Kudos for Sigma! The RF "pops" more which gives the "impression" of a oh so slightly sharper image than the Sigma. - The Sigma is not sharp at 600mm - I didn't realize this until now. I even took pictures of the half moon last night and indeed. The RF at 500mm cropped (120% up-sized) to the same size as the Sigma at 600mm, is still sharper than the Sigma!!! So there is no reason for me to keep the Sigma for the extra reach! - I pixel peeped at 100% all the way up to 500%, same settings - all at f/7.1, same ISO, SS. A "negative" of the RF is indeed as mentioned in many forums/reviews, the AF can seriously struggle to find a bird in foliage or even worse, a wooded brush without leaves (the R5/RF's biggest nightmare, lol). The Sigma has NO issues in this situation (!) - except of course the by now known back-focusing problem. The work-around when using the RF is to use spot AF (I use the * for that) which works well, then try switching to eye/tracking (I use AF-ON for that). So... I decided - with pain in my heart - to sell my Sigma Sport 150-600 EF mount. Adorama and KEH both offer $925. Darn, I only get half of what I paid for. The lens is like new, original box and all, even a transferable protection plan still good for almost 2 years. Oh well... I could keep the Sigma for use with the X-H1 but honestly, that combo is only going to collect dust on the bookshelf, now that I have the RF.

Very interesting questions. I have yet to see a definitive answer from anyone. Here are my starting thoughts. First, as to DSLRs versus mirrorless. I have a Canon 60D and an R5 and agree that they handle the focussing search differently. However, I think the issue shown in your video is not due to the mechanical differences shown in your diagram. It looks like you must be using LiveVew when recording the focussing process for your 5D. If so, focus is being obtained off the full sensor, not the focussing sensor in your diagram. In LiveView, focussing is as shown in your mirrorless diagram because the mirrors are flipped out of the light path in LiveViee. As such, the difference on focussing must be a software issue. So, Canon could make the focussing for the R5 the same as for the 5D In LiveView but perhaps not without some tradeoffs in areas where the R5 has superior focussing capability. As to the second issue, the pulsing. I wonder if this has to do with the in lens focus calibration. Sigma and Tamron allow you to correct for DSLR front and back focus issues by programming an adjustment into the lens. This is to account for the fact that when not in LiveView the camera is using a separate sensor to focus and when focus is achieved on that sensor true focus may not exist on the actual image sensor when the mirror flips out of the way to take the photo. To compensate, we can program the lens to go ahead and rack focus in or out slightly from the focus sensor best focus position so as the achieve best focus on the image sensor. This works fine until you shift into LiveViee or put the lens on a mirrorless camera. On those cases the correction causes a conflict. The lens achieves focus on the imaging/focussing sensor, but then makes the adjustment programmed which cause the image to lose a bit of focus, but since the focus and image sensor are one and the same, the camera focus sensor now sees an out of focus image and tries to find focus again. It gets stuck in a loop. It seems like you cannot readily switch a lens with programmable focus adjustment between a DSLR and a mirrorless camera, because you have to use no calibration for the mirrorless while calibration is needed for the DSLR. This is just an idea.

Thanks, Duade. I’ve experienced the same issue with my version one Tamron 150-600 and R5. I need to take lots of bursts to make sure I get a few sharp images. The pulsing is very obvious. I don’t have that issue with my Canon 100-400. I’m saving up for the Canon RF 100-500. That will solve my problems.😉

I originally bought the 150-600 Sport for my 7dmk2 and thought they worked very well. When I got the R5 I found I was getting way too many issues with soft shots. This was last year and I couldn’t find much on the internet about it. I finally took the plunge and sold it. Problem is I am now without a suitable lens for wildlife so really wish the issues could be sorted, or a mirror less version. Great video though and pleased as I thought I was going mad before.

A really top notch explanation of an issue I am hearing more and more about and am now noticing in my own shots. I experience lack of focus and hunting with this combination (R5 and Sigma 150-600 Contemporary) when there is insufficient contrast between the edge of the subject of interest and the surroundings. If I then move to something nearby with better contrast, then come back to my original subject, I can take the shot. You mentioned no such issues with the 100-500 Canon RF mount. I have friends who have reported the same issues with that lens as well. And yet your last test with the static parrot had lots of contrast, but still hunted. It is a puzzle. Was hoping the latest firmware update addressed it, but haven't had a chance to test that yet.

Hello Duade and thank you for this video. I photograph mostly birds with two cameras - a DSLR Canon 80D with Canon 100-400 L USM II lens and a mirrorless Sony A9 with Sony 200-600 G lens. The AF on Sony A9 suffers the same problems as you described in your video plus Sony A9 is difficult to focus on small or not enough contrasting foreground subjects or horizontal lines which can be frustrating more so that Sony does not have the bird eye feature. The Canon 80D AF is superior in this aspect and I thought it was Sony problem but now I am convinced that this is a mirrorless issue in general. Thank you for your great videos.

Hi Duade I have the R5 and the Sigma 150-600mm "Sport". I had to settle for this lens because the RF 100-500mm is next to impossible to get here in the U.S. unless you are willing to pay $400-$700 over it's current price of $2,799. (Canon doesn't even have any!). I also have the rf 800mm f11 and I have to say the Sigma is much faster at auto focus and has the versatility. Also, as you know, Canon has a $10,000 gap between the rf1-500 and the other primes! It's rather ridiculous position to put the consumer in. In conclusion, we will have to get by with what we have access to and what is realistic price wise for most people. Thanks for your great content! David Sylvester

i'm using the sigma 150-600mm sport which has a slightly better AF than the contemporary I believe . I use it with a Nikon Z7. I haven't noticed the issue that you have highlighted but will check it out asap, I haven't noticed any pulsing but agree the AF sometimes snaps to the background and has a job regaining focus. I tend to use single point or small area focus but there has been a recent firmware update that has improved the tracking mode. Nice to see another Ifootage monopod user, great piece of gear.

Duade Kobie Clark has the new Pentax K3 mark 3 with the 101 focus points he was showing how the focus would change focus on movement of the water in a lake insted of staying locked on the bird that was not moving . My older Pentax K3-11 does not have that problem with the 27 focus points it stays locked on the bird. I'm not sure more focus points are the answer I believe it's how there used by the camera and lens in tandem. I'm also not sold that mirrorless are superior to DSLR cameras as they still will give you equivalent pictures to mirrorless I believe the photographer as you have proven is the more important than the camera.

Thanks Duade. I’ve stopped using the Sigma 150-600C on my R5 because of the pulsing problem. Some days it seems to be particularly petulant and pulses perpetually. Others, not at all. To be fair, I was unaware that there is a new lens upgrade for R compatibility, so I will install that and retry to see if it improves the situation. The 100-500RF back-focus sticking appears to be exacerbated by low light, low contrast, back lighting, or a small subject. Too often I have missed a special shot because of refusal to focus or refocusing delay. Unacceptable really, when you consider the cost of the kit.

I have the S-150-600mm and us it with a Canon RP. I have found that Oneshot af mode with single focus point (no tracking) works best when Im taking a target that’s not moving much. I use two buttons on the back right to 1) center focus point and then 2) back focus. It gives me more explicit control on idle, small, or far off targets. I still use tracking with birds. I have also seen more AF reliability at 400-500mm than 600m.

I broke down and purchased the R6 which works well with my EF lenses but I also bought 1 RF lens (the 800mm f11). I am actually really happy with the 800 mm. The COST, light weight, size and ability to handhold (very good stabilization) make up for the f11. I am getting more good shots than I ever expected BUT mostly because it is easy to carry around with me on occasions where I would be without a big lens or a camera for that matter and things always seem to pop up. I do a lot of walks in Maine. I encountered the same focus problem (grabbing the back ground) but could not bump the focus on the 800 using the ring, while on AF?? My solution was to set the 1/2 press on the shutter button to spot AF and a back button to eye detection. I was just out trying to shoot Kingfishers in flight and landing with their catch on a perch. I find I can hit the perch with the 1/2 press then hit the back button and it gets the bird fast while on a perch. I am still struggling to focus on the fast flying Kingfisher in flight with eye AF but it's all new to me, so hopefully with practice I'll get something worth keeping.

I've been waiting for this video. Thanks a lot.

Hi Duane just purchased this exact combo, not had a great deal of time to work with it yet, early indications are as you say. Sharp and soft, to say I’m disappointed is an understatement! I will have to keep going with it. Wish I had seen your video a week ago. Thanks for all the great vids, if you find away round the issues, please post. Cheers Phil AKA keepclickingphotography

If it's OK, I have a second comment. I tried the R5/rf100-500 continuous focus with animal eye. Aimed at a setup perch, it did a great job locking on the birds, even in flight as they approached or departed the perch. When a bird left, it sometimes focused on the background, but then captured the next bird. I doubt if anybody regularly uses continuous AF, but it worked great and it would be good hands-off with a remote shutter.

I had exactly the same focus "pulsing" issue with a Sigma 500mm f4 Sport lens on Nikon DSLR bodies. I put it down to imperfect reverse engineering of the Nikon focus system by the Sigma engineers.

I've got this lens with an R6 and I have a love hate relationship with it. When it gets it right, its amazing, BUT The issues brought up here are very apparent to me. I get a LOT of soft shots, and now I understand why a little better. Gonna start just shooting massive bursts and hope for the best lol.

Excellent video! You hit the nail on the head with all your points of issues and questions. I went from Canon 7D mark II with the Sigma 150-600mm to the R5 and after that I can't afford the Canon lens. I'm almost thinking of selling my R5 because I shoot birds and have had several issues with the focusing. Even missed a lifer hummingbird because of this on a trip! I end up having to focus somewhere else (on the ground) and then try and focus on the bird again, but end up missing the shot altogether, since birds don't wait around! The sharp/soft focus is a real issue. I feel like after spending this much money on the camera it should work with this lens and not have so many issues. I like many of the features on it, but feel like I'm not getting the results I was hoping for.

I was ecstatic when I acquired a Canon R7 about 5 months ago (moving forward from a T3i and SL1, it was a big leap to upgrading). I wish I found your videos beforehand because I'm struggling so hard with my Sigma 60-600... Some of my photography companions were chalking up my AF issues as a new mirrorless owner, but your videos just helps reaffirm that I'm not going crazy and my frustration isn't unfounded. Edit: Don't know if this will be seen but I just got back from attempting to take pictures of jets (what I typically use the camera for) and it was awful. About ready to return the R7 or downgrade and wait for other lenses to become available... Haha...

Hi Duade, once again a great video. I've had Sigma 150-600 C for a year now and I've been using it with Canon 5D Mark III and I'm very happy with the results. Currently, I've seized the opportunity to rent an R5 for a weekend for free thanks to Canon promotional campaign in my country and I'm also bothered with the "out-of-focus butterfly in the foreground" focusing issue you mention at 9:20. Can't really comment on the issue of pulsing since it's hard to detect with my own eyes, as you mentioned, however, I do hear the autofocus motor going back and forth, but if tested on still subjects, it stops after a few seconds. What bothers me more, however, is another issue that it's not mentioned in the video: when tracking a bird (or anything else, for that matter) on the plain blue sky background using Servo AF with 1-point AF or Spot AF when the bird leaves the point for a fraction of a second and the plain blue sky is in the AF point then the camera loses the focus completely because it tries to focus on the sky and fails. This is very frustrating, especially that I don't have this issue on 5DM3. When using 5DM3 and pointing it directly to plain blue sky it just knows that there's no point trying to focus on the sky and it doesn't even drive the AF motor, which makes tracking the bird on the sky much easier. On R5 it is a nightmare because once a bird leaves the point it takes so much time to refocus that the bird is usually gone. Did you also have this issue? I've tried different settings but I couldn't find any that would prevent from refocusing when AF point is on plain blue sky. On both cameras I have set the setting "Lens drive when AF impossible" to ON (Firmware version of the rented R5 is 1.4.0)

Thanks for your content, love it. I have experience the inability to focus on blurry front objects using Canon 5Dm4 and 300mm 2.8 always, so I got used to fine-tune the focus using the manual focus wheel. I see the same problem in Sony A1 and 200-600mm lens, but to lesser frequency. I am surprised you did not see that with 5Dm4.

On the flipside though, the mirrorless AF isn't as easily distracted away when shooting through leaves, branches, fences etc., as is the DSLR.

On my Lumix G9 I can assign AF-Near and AF-Far to function buttons to solve exactly this problem. Works superbly. It would be the perfect solution to this issue for Canon and the other brands; I'm very curious as to why they are not implementing something similar.

Hey Duade, something to try with the mirrorless is to twist you camera 45 deg to obtain focus in these situations. Steve Perry talks about this quite a bit in some of his mirrorless AF issues. I'll be curious on how the Z9 goes when I finally get it.

Great video! I have the focus issue with my sony camera with multiple lenses, all dedicated mirrorless lenses, both from sony and sigma. I usually use the workaround where I move the camera to have it focused on something much closer than the subject and then move it back, thus achieving focus. It is indeed annoying, but I learned to live with it. However, I completely agree that on such high-end cameras this shoud not be an issue. Hopefully, this will get fixed sometime in the future..

Splendid as always Duade

As I thought about the AF pulsing issue, I realized that it looks similar to the pulsing that you get with a Panasonic camera. Panasonic cameras have only contrast-detection AF; they do not use the on-chip phase-detection that most of today's mirrorless cameras employ. It makes me wonder if the R5 is reverting to contrast-detection when using the Sigma 150-600 and some other adapted lenses. (It could be using phase-detection at first to get the focus close to the subject, and then switching to contrast-detection for fine-tuning, which it does constantly as you keep the AF button pressed.) Thank you for a great video! I personally won't worry about the pulsing since I don't have any adapted lenses. But that issue of a mirrorless camera not being able to find the subject when it's not near the current focus distance is concerning. I wasn't quite clear on your conclusion with this one. Have you experienced this with native lenses, and with other camera brands as well, or is it more of a problem with Canon and adapted lenses?

Thanks for solving the mystery that's been driving me crazy.

I got the same auto-focus issue on the R5. Thank you for the solution sharing.

My experience. Sigma 100-600mm c with Nikon d850 and d500. With stationary subjects. Once focus is achieved, get off the bbf. The lens continues to focus because the button tell it to do so. My first copy did a resonance thing and bussed like an electric razor. Second copy is much better behaved. No problem if the subject is in motion. Other than that the lens has served me well.

Another informative video Duade. Since I don’t use the gear that you were testing it doesn’t really apply to me but that’s okay. I imagine that it’s a great help for others. One issue that I had with the video and I hope that I was the only one with this problem. The sound went out of sync about 1/3rd into the video. I played the video twice and it was the same both times. I see that you are still using the monopod an interesting design for sure!

Many thanks Duade,I do have a 1.4 lll extender,cheers

Had the same issue with my R6 and the sigma and was using for sport and the AF was very poor . No problems on my 5D IV . Ended up trading up to a RF 100-500 .

R5 does not struggle but lens with adapter.Adapter has to translate to camera where the AF focus point is of a lens which is not optimize for the ML system.

Hey Duade, really enjoyed the vid. My R6 and Sigma150-600C are just a match made in heaven (yes an RF version would be ideal). I have the AF button with limited AF types (rotating) and * as EYE AF. hardly any issue.. moving the manual focus a bit ain't no big deal .. a few years ago didn't we all shoot with out hands on lens 24/7 ? 🤣 I believe mirror less glass will all come with a focus preset button pretty-soon as high-end primes do. Thanks slot for all the effort you put in Duade, I highly admire you and your work! (Edit: autocorrect doesn't seem to like your name spelling much) 🙋‍♂️from🇩🇴

I work with the EF 28-300 mm on the R5 most of the time and I have the same issue when trying to focus on small objects like a butterfly. After using the focus ring to get the butterfly (almost) in focus the autofocus locks on and stays locked on. Since you didn't have the problem with RF lens, I think we can safely say it's an issue in the communication between the camera and EF lenses.

Thank you Duade for a such an informative video. It was very helpful for me in terms of deciding my next lens. I am currently using an R6 with the Canon 400 f5.6 L. Never faced any AF issues. I often pair it with the 1.4x ii and the AF still works quite well. No pulsing issues. Then, I also have a Tamron 70-300 di VC USD. I am noticing the pulsing issue with this lens on the R6. I hope the RF mount lenses from Sigma and Tamron address these issues because otherwise they seem to produce such good value lenses.

I’m surprised the R5 doesn’t have near and far focus facility. I use this on my mirror less programmed into the two front function buttons. Not naming my brands because I’m not into camera wars. Really enjoyed your video and the way you use your gear., you’re a very good photographer, I’m eyeing up this lens, Sigma make it for my mirror less mount. Thanks for the run down, always useful to build on others experiences. 👍

Let me answer it for the folks. I have the exact setup, the R5 + Sigma 150-600mm. Not sure whether you might remember as I might have mentioned it to you in the past is that I simply refuse to get the RF 100-500mm. Personally, I feel it is a rip-off as over here in HK, at one point it had been driven up to US$3.4K which was the same price as a R5 here. Even now the price has dropped after 6 months, it is still going for US$3K, double the price of the Sony FE 200-600mm. Just ask yourself, how is that even possible?! On top of that, I much prefer an internal zoom because of the much smoother and shorter throw. So, the answer about pairing up the R5 with the Sigma 150-600mm is don't do it! I will explain why. I won't even mention about the pulsing issue as you detailed above because it is true. There are so many other issues that you didn't even mention. May be the reason you didn't mention them is you are using the Canon EF to RF adapter. I don't have that as it has been sold out everywhere for months. Instead, I have the Viltrox adapter. Well, right off the bat, it has communication issues and I will cover them as follows: 1) the OS may or may not come on which will require you to toggle the switch between OS and off and 2) in terms of focusing range when I used to shoot at FULL with my 90D, on the R5 it doesn't work. You will have to toggle the switch to specify the range. Last but not least, the latest development is my adapter connection with the Sigma has finally become loose over time whereby the lens is now giving me errors from time to time. I was already waiting for the updated A1 to come out, but this may force me to pull the pin even on the current A1. So, like I said, don't do it. If you must choose the R5, you must buy the RF 100-500mm or the RF 600mm or 800mm f/11 or the RF 400mm f/2.8 or the RF 600mm f/4. Is as simple as that. You may want to adapt your EF glass, but I can't guarantee you on the performance. But, if you still haven't decided on the body yet, I would probably go with the A1 because Sony has so many more lens options. First of all, it has way more native E-mount lenses, then the 3rd party lens support is second to none. Both Sigma and Tamron have E-mount lenses. Canon doesn't. Although Sigma is working on it, don't expect it to come through for may be another couple of years.

I've not had these issues with this combo in quite the same way, I've had it where the AF cannot see the subject, like the butterfly, but hunts and pulls focus slowly until it can see it and, I've not experienced the pulsing at all. Like you, I use dual BBF, and mostly AF case 1. The light there looks soft and I think that can certainly make a difference and it is more snappy in harder light.

love the videos - these investigative videos are very helpful and interesting. Keep them coming

Thank you for this video. Very interesting and very informative, as always! I just realized i have this issue aswell! but with my Nikon Z6 and the Tamron 150-600 G2. So your analysis with the mirrorless together with the third party lenses, could very well be spot on. I also do get very nice images, and for the time being i am happy enough with the setup. But yes for now, sometimes it can be a struggle. Looking forward for the 200-600 mm lens for nikon mirrorless to arrive.

in case of acquiring focus - this is indeed a problem to overcome on R5 and R6. They are way less effective with that than my old 7DMKII. I either use manual focus or the custom ring om my 600 f4. once in focus the AF is sticky as never before...

Hi Duade. Very informative video. I just got fed up waiting for the R7 so I purchased an R5 (firmware 1.4) with EF adapter. With my 100-400 ef II and 1.4X III it is a joy to use, no pulsating focus for my set-up at least. Focus stuck on background happens once in a while though with somewhat very small and low contrast subjects with AF single point focus. You already mentioned in a previous video the different much larger single focus point compared to the size of the much smaller EYE af point; Would certainly help if the single point was the same size and just as accurate as the eye af point. Single point af is much smaller on the 90D. I also own a Sigma 150-600 c with the latest firmware update: I get very sharp R5 images with the lens alone and quite acceptable photos with the 1.4 Canon TC BUT with both set-ups, the focus is slow, often pulsating and so jumpy with the TC it is almost unusable. Too bad, that combo is 840mm but I have to try new tweaks, who knows. I relate the pulsating to the IBIS of the R5 as it seems to improve if the lens IS is set to off. I am handholding so very problematic without IS.

Hi Duade: As always, thank you again for an informative and well-presented video. I have been shooting with the R5 and R6, in combination with the Sigma 150-600c, 60-600s, RF 100-500, and even all three of the EF 70-300 (not including the DO version). I have also used all of these EF-mount lenses with the 5DIV, 5DsR, and 7DMkII. Considering that Canon have just released new firmware that offers some tweaks to the autofocus, if you have not downloaded and installed that, it MIGHT PERHAPS make a difference. I am not sure exactly what settings you have for your focus, so of course there may be some variations. Furthermore the subjects and environments I shoot in are different to yours, so this cannot be seen as anything approaching a scientific comparison. What I learnt was that for static subject the DSLRs do fine, and in SOME cases all of the cameras do well in shooting moving subjects: in my case I was following gannets in flight at some speed. The DSLRs had a lower keeper rate than the R-bodies for these birds on the move, and my best results were the R6 with the 100-500, with the R5 a little bit behind. I have not tried shooting butterflies (although I certainly acknowledge that you have issues with your simulated bird's eyes too). Again our situations may be different, but I found that placing the subject in the centre of the frame, then using the centre button on the rear dial to re-set the autofocus on the subject (and thus bypassing the animal eye tracking) and tracking the subject, seemed to resolve the issue of not finding the subject using direct animal eye tracking. Certainly, your (or that of others) experience may be different. I have not been aware of pulsing, but I was not looking for it, so I shall conduct further experiments myself! {:-) Given that Sigma have dropped fairly solid hints that they are soon to address the RF mount, that may mean they can offer unique products in that market space for a while (I am sure Tamron will be onto that too), I would expect native RF-mount lenses in t the150-600 and 60-600 range considering they would be adapting their own versions: even perhaps offering 70-300 or 100-400 zoom lenses: given that Canon are already offering a 70-200 native offering and the super long 600 and 800 primes.

Tnx, I had higher hopes for this. I suspect we will have to wait for Sigma driver updates or RF versions.

these issues are sadly the reason I have dragged my heels jumping over to the mirrorless version of all my Canon gear, I don't want to struggle with the 2 x 150 to 600 sports sigmas we have, or worse still my 600 F4 Canon Prime. Was thinking of picking up the new R7, but it seems to have been dumbed down from the 7D mk II, the 5Dsr gives us great results or used to, it fell off a cliff during a landscape shoot, but I really fancied the live exposure readings of the Mirrorless for wildlife, again really wanted the benefit of the Eye Focus for birds in flight but i can see the issue you have pointed out being even worse during flight

Great video. Thank you. I was using the Sigma Canon mount with MC11on my Sony A7rIV and A9 and finally sold the lens today. Hunt, hunt, peck, peck...one image out of 20 or 30 in focus. Maybe I will buy a 7DII or a 5DIV and another Sigma and try again. We shouldn't have to do that. The images that were sharp with the Sigma are as good as the ones with my Sony 200-600. Again, thanks for explaining the issue.

Hi DudeAde,Too late! I've bought a used 150-600C. The good news :The lens is sharp @600 (I'm Nikon APS-C 200-500). I use it, slowly, on Olympus ("pro capture" & reach) and on Sony (low light/FF). I wish a R5 (FF-APSC) someday in the future (R7?). The back focusing issue is well known with R5/R6, and very sticky when it's engaged. No firmware update until now. Fantastic AF except when it happens! :( Most people use the old technique, recompose, refocus, then compose and focus again. Not a happy move. => Is it the same issue with the R3 ? (R3 owners ?) The pulsating issue is new to me. Not a good news. Well, Sigma does reverse DSLR engineering, then this sauce is adapted to mirrorless tech. Not really surprising. The cheap, dark and light 100-400 RF will be my route as a mandatory second lens I suppose. Great video : Thank you ! (and BTW, great comments/community around your channel ! Hope we'll all keep it that way ;)

Interesting. I noticed this same behavior with my old Tamron 150-600 (not the newer G2). I gave up on that lens (very slow autofocus in general, and not as sharp as I'd like) and replaced it with the Canon 100-500, which is amazing. Glad I didn't decide to get the Sigma either! BTW, the Tamron was updated to the newest firmware (had to send it to Tamron for that) and camera had the latest firmware at the time (I haven't tested it recently).

I use this lens with a Canon 90d and with the Canon R5. I've always had breathing issues with the lens so I just recently bought the doc. To do some custom settings. I'm going to do some customizations and see how that goes

Very useful Duade! Thanks

Nice explanation/video. I program the "AF point" button to "Recall shooting func" , using "Info" button to change settings to only "AF method"=single point, "AF operation"=on (and also Tracking sensitivity and accel/decel to my liking - not sure if relevant). When shooting, hitting "AF-point" seems to get me out of the undesirable AF lock-on. I never need to use the lens focus ring. Originally programmed this way to get focus on partial subject when AF detection doesn't work. Must confess, I've never used a DSLR so maybe I'm missing the point.

Hi Duade, I don't have any Canon cameras but have a similar focusing issue with the Sony A1, none of the hunting in and out though. I'm using Sony lens', currently the 200-600 & the 100-400, with the 600f4 on order. I have no experience with any other mirrorless cameras, so can't draw any conclusions on the focusing issue and here in the U.K. it's currently a wet and gloomy Winter, so my insect photography is very, very limited. My DSLR's are Nikon, D500 & D850 and I only use Nikon lens' too. I did buy the Sigma 150-600 but lost patience with the hit or miss focusing on that, it's now an ornament, boxed up and replaced with a Nikon 200-500 and other stuff for landscapes etc. Back to mirrorless stuff, as pointed out below by Donald, zooming out/in does sometimes correct that for me too, as will focusing off to the left/right, or of course manual adjustment. But the point is that for the cost of these things, those issues shouldn't exist. Maybe an firmware upgrade will be released to correct these matters at some point, if the manufacturers are made aware of them, of course. Interesting video. Regards, Mark.

I have similar annoyances in the Fuji system, with Fuji cameras and the Fuji XF80mm macro lens. Focusing nearby it just more miss than hit. And that's with a lens made for the mirrorless system it's used on. So I think it's something about mirrorless systems as such, not just the lenses.

Very interesting video thanks. I got the same issue with the Canon R6 combined with Canon EF 100-400 mkII + 1.4x Ext. I am therefore looking forward to purchase the Canon RF 100-500.

I see. Interesting. I have the canon 600D and every time I want to focus it goes through the entire range until it finds the range and focus in the small square. Its very slow so easy to tell what its doing. Hopefully canon can mimic that a bit with the mirrorless in the future.

Great video, and spot on for me. I've just upgraded to the R5, and I'm considering buying a long zoom lens. The Sigma 150-600 is at the top of my list right now, but seeing this video.... Have you tried the RF F11 lenses, they're in the same price range I guess.

I use a Sony A9 with native lenses and it also performs worse with static AF than my Nikon D500 DSLR. It'll land on a small bird in midground and immediately shoot to the background and focus there. The Melbourne Nikon/Sony/Canon agent said that these AF sensors get confused. I'd say that may be because they're line-type only PD sensors while DSLRs have cross-type sensors spread around the centre of the frame that take data from both vertical and horizontal lines. I expect line-type sensors need more distinction in colour and contrast between the subject and the surrounds to function well. They're more likely to get this if the subject is moving. The Sony's accuracy when it does get a lock is also not quite as good as the Nikon's. I ditched all my DSLR gear except the D500 body when moving to Sony mirrorless but found I had to keep the D500 and buy another tele lens so that while out getting record shots of small birds there were enough keepers. If record shots aren't a priority, then this AF failure is just (!) an irritation.

I have not noticed the issue you refer too with either the Sigma 100 - 400 or the 150 - 600. I have experienced losing focus completely however. I can have a critter in perfect focus with the AF locked on the eye and suddenly nothing in the frame will be in focus and 4 or 5 shots later (well before I can release the shutter b utton) it regains focus. This is using either lens with the R6 body. Never a problem with AF on the 90D. It doesn't happen every time. I never know when it will happen though and that makes for interesting shoots!?!

Duane - I hope that you test the Sigma 150-600mm with the Canon R7. I would like to purchase it and get the extra 100mm and save about $2,000 USD, because the Canon 100-500mm is around $2,800. You give great information for the beginner bird photographer. Keep up the good work.

I use the R6 with this lens, I have found the issue seems to be much worse in a busy situation, where there are maybe leaves or a branch surrounding the subject. I took a little fluffy lion out with me the other day, as to me it seemed worse after firmware update 1.5. With a clear and unobstructed view the focus on the eye was almost instantaneous, however, when there was a small twig in front, even when I manually focused on the eye, as soon as I pressed autofocus the focus would move off the eye, and start hunting. I also took my EF 70-200 f2,8 and the only RF lens I own, which is the 24-104 f4-F7-1. To be honest I didn't find either of these lenses any better in that particular situation. The weather has been pretty awful here in the UK for the last week, and I've been out twice in very overcast conditions which didn't help. As regards the pulsing, I have noticed with 150-600mm that I could have a sharp shot followed by a soft one, then the third one is back in focus. However this was normally hand held, and I assumed that it was my error. Maybe I'm not as bad as I thought.

That's interesting, I'm using the Tamron 150-600 on my Nikon Z6II and it performs exceptionally well landing and holding focus for both stills and video. It would seem Nikon did a better job adapting for old lenses. I've used lots of third party F-Mount lenses without issue on mine, but I've heard many complaints around my local camera shop regarding adapted non-Canon lenses on their mirrorless systems. That said, I've been reading Canon is planning to release another 32 lenses in the coming years, so that should solve the need to use adapters for a lot of people.

Man I was so happy with my setup until I watched your video. :D I am immediately going to try and replicate your findings. Personally I cannot justify the RF100-500 it a nice lens but I cannot use it on my crop DSLR, it has less reach, it is slower 7.1 at the 500mm mark, price is also more than double that of the Sigma/Tamron options. If only Canon made something like the Sony 200-600 solid, not extending, electronic driven zoom motors and priced it somewhat competitively...

Great video Duade!

Very informative and relaxing video. Thank you so much!

Hi Duade. Hi have seen this problem several times. I'm not sure that the problem is with sigma lens or Tamron lens. I suspect the EF to RF converter. These lens are very heavy. I think sume issues withth electronic contact on the converter. Itried several converters manufacturer and the problems change.

I have the same issue of focussing birds in flight where I just can't get the bird in focus. I am using R5 and latest version of EF500mm f4. Sent my body and lens to Canon and just received back and Canon don't seem to think it is an issue. I had no such issues with my 1Dx Mark 1 and Mark iii. And the difference is not minor. Also at times, when the background is cluttered, I have focussing issues on the bird. The feeling I get is I am not in control of the camera focusing system. Perched birds and with clearer backgrounds it is fine. I am disappointed. On separate topic, the hot shoe got rusted with minimal exposure to rain (was wiped immediately).

Sigma, Tamron, et al will likely fix this if/when they start releasing RF mount lenses.

I also noticed pulsing/AF issues with the Sigma and Tamron I tried, but it's not an issue with all EF-mount Sigma lenses; I've found my R5/6 to work with the Art 85 1.4, the 70-200 Sports, the 60-600 Sports, the 24-35 f/2 Art, and one or two others. I guess the higher end lenses are fine, but there are issues with the Contemporary lenses (I also had issues with the 18-200 Contemporary adapted on the R5). And with regard to the AF grabbing the background, I've been told that's just an issue with how mirrorless camera AF works. I usually find something at a similar distance to point the lens at, or do some MF adjustments.

A off brand EF mount lens worked better on a EF mount camera than it did on an RF mount camera using an adapter. All the hunting stopped when you switched to a Canon RF mount lens. Maybe that is the answer right there. If you pay half the price then you have to settle for 50% results.

GDay Duade! Thanks for this investigation! I don't seem to suffer for this (R6 + 100-400Lii & EF100L2.8), although it's now too cold in Europe to find volunteering butterflies;-) Nevertheless I learned from it, because in my early urge to preserve battery life I had disabled 'Lens drive when AF impossible'. As a result my 100-400 stopped attempting to focus when nothing was found around the current focus distance. So I had to turn the manual focus to be closer to where I needed to focus and then AF could take over again. It was annoying, but I kinda preferred it over the hunting and sticking to focus on the background which you complained about already in your earlier YT's. Now with the lens drive enabled, I can focus where I want without needing to give a hint via the focus ring, which is obviously better. And so far no sticking to the background but as I said no butterflies to check it completely. In return, I'd like to suggest an extension of the dual back button AF (which I set up nearly identical to you and Jan, and which was a huge gamechanger after upgrading from the 70D where I never liked the back button focus). From another YT, I picked up the desire to sometimes us a zone instead of spot AF for cases of BIF where the bird may be to far away for eye AF. But his suggested method to obtain it was cumbersome. After some searching, I now added the 'direct AF method selection' (on the button right of * aka AF point selection, because I do AF point selection via the joystick) which allows to rather quickly switch between spot and zone.