Yeah, old school coal mines were usually stub layouts, but they still didn't look like the one on this trackplan. there should be a lot of track beyond the loading structure for storing cars waiting to be loaded, and what is basically a small storage yard in front of it of loaded cars track sorted by coal grade. As with most things, Armstrong has a good diagram of various levels of selective compression of such a mine

Why did your brewery need coal?

@@ellisjackson336 we had coal fired boilers in the powerhouse. Later switched to either natural gas or fuel oil.

I believe you forgot the question was a layout in the 1940 & 1950. The coal mine would have been 4-5 car tracks. Not today 100 unit trains 18:32

@@petesilcox4102 I wasn't really worried about the coal mine or any other industry as I assessed the purpose of the layout (the way it will please the owner). Any industry/industrial area is going to be representational. 1 car = 5 cars or such. After classification (and a good conductor as you work the line if the yardmaster doesn't block cars during makeup), you're switching industries in blocks of cars. At that point on the model, 1 car can represent 10. In other responses, I have mentioned that commodities moved in blocks of cars in mixed freights. TOFC, coal, meat, produce, whatever. Unit trains weren't really the modus operandi until the 70s give or take. Sure there were seasonal produce or meat trains but that was the exception, not the rule in this era. So I don't think I missed anything. My observation is that Rock Island, IL, and Kansas City are two "major" yards on a basement empire with 10-12 industries total. And, what? 10 feet of separation with no industry in between? I was also looking at the Depot in Colorado Springs, CO, being a focal point along with the peninsula with trestles being the first thing the visitor should see. And then there is the continuous-run bridge across the entrance rather than a point-to-point design or dog bone. All that tells me the railroad is designed to "run" more than "operate" -- which is fine. I think beyond era, I would want to know things like how many people were going to operate a session and the prototype railroad. Rock Island is my best guess. But most importantly, do you want operations or watch trains run? The hobby is big enough to fulfill whatever makes the owner happy. Even though I love operations, it's quite relaxing just to let the trains run, too. I also think the eastern terminus should be on one side of the door and the western terminus on the other. As it is, the middle point is at the door and there is random countryside between IA and CO. The other option is that somehow CO is between IA and KC. Or that it's a wishbone line like the C&EI with a line south from RI to KC and a line west from RI through IA to CO. Personally, I would make a point-to-point layout with Colorado Springs opposite side of the entry from where KC is, move Rock Island to where KC is and put KC in the alcove. You can leave the continuous run across the entrance. And operate it either as point-to-point (not utilizing the bridge) or continuous run. If the prototype is the RI, you can use the joint RI/UP Depot in KCK (photos online) instead of KC Union Station to represent KC and, by moving Springs further down the line, allow your passenger trains to stretch their legs between (and at) stations. It also allows space for intermediate "small towns" between the big cities to generate traffic to give the yards a purpose. Again, whether those industries generate 1 carload or 5 or 20 logistically doesn't matter because a single car represents a block of cars with the same move. At that point, how many cars an industry track holds becomes a matter of space, aesthetics, and suspension of disbelief. One of my pet peeves are industries such as grain elevators without extended sidings for the loaded cars to be moved down to fill the next empty. You can have a three car siding, but if there's no track beyond the fill chute, you can only load 1 car. As such, to "realistically" be able to fill 3 boxcars (in 1950) with grain, your siding would have to have room for two cars between the clearance point of the switch and the chute, 1 car at the chute, and extend 2 cars past the chute. But you don't always see that on model railroads because there's a willing suspension of disbelief. Same with the coal mine. It could hold 1 car and I would be fine with it. But that's me and my interests.

HA!

Been there done that, and had to repair some fragile parts such as safety valves and whistles along the way, great tip btw

Sounds good

Glad you like them!

Glad you enjoyed it!

negative. I havent been in a McDonalds in a long time.

@@djstrains Well, that's good. It's horrible stuff.

Glad it was helpful!

Glad it was helpful!

Glad you like them!

More to come

Agree.

My pleasure!

I sincerely appreciate that!

Glad to hear it!

That could all be on one track depending on how the brewery is set up.

Glad it was helpful!

Glad it was helpful!

Take a look at any good satellite mapping of the area you want to model. You will learn more in a day of railfanning once you fully understand the track plan.

Wow, thanks!

Glad it was helpful!

Glad it was helpful!

Glad it was helpful!

That's the plan!

Will start tomorrow morning actually. Will try to have some copies for Saturday train show and then possibly a ebook. It would be based upon areas I work

I like it

I lived in the Quad Cities in the 1970's. The place of a part time job was, in fact, located adjacent to the elevated portion of the RI line in downtown Davenport. While my personal modeling interests lie elsewhere, I find find your ideas very intriguing and believe they'd make a good starting point for a layout design.

working on that for a future video

My opinion is, this person should spend the money on a house that allows for a better track plan. 😂If this was a LEGO train layout... this person is going to save a lot of money just buying the LEGO track and not those expensive Modulars!

Jerry, Mopac had a car float operation on the Mississippi River between Mississippi and Arkansas. The IC had a similar operation between Illinois and Kentucky near where the Ohio River flows into the Mississippi.

@@garymccullah1143 OK but that's 350 miles from Kansas City as the crow flies, and a lot farther as the barge sails.

There was also a car ferry operation on MP / ex Missouri-Illinois Railroad at Ste Genevieve, MO (south of St Louis) and Illinois - Kellogg, IL I want to say. Saint Gen, as it's called, is a lovely little town with historic French colonial era restored structures, and a large open pit lime mine near the former car ferry site. There's still an automobile ferry operation on the old railroad site, too.

When I first got a train set I went to the local hobby shop and took all I “needed” to the front counter and the owner told me to put half of it back as he wanted a customer not someone who will just quit. My first layout grew in leaps and bounds and by the time I was ready to start running trains in earnest we had to move, such a waste.

Hey, thanks

Demmler

"turning around and having your shirt snag something" Don't worry -- the aisles are only 2ft wide, so it's impossible to turn around anyway!

Dormer for window.

I'm thinking about including coal trains in my layout I'm planning. Actually loading and unloading cars is (as said in the video) time consuming and I think also difficult to model and can be messy. So I'll leave it away for now. I thought about having a circle with a hidden part and having the same train two times: Full and empty. And send them in turns in the opposite direction. If it's possible to have a scenic divider on the layout in this video, it could be possible to suggest a mine and/or an unloading facility (port or power plant) as photo on the backdrop and some structures where the train just disappears behind.

Not for diesels. We sometimes go weeks with 2 engines facing same direction on locals. Not turning them until they go for their inspection in Cumberland Maryland

@@djstrains Were tank engines a thing on mainlines in the USA? Afaik these were usually allowed the same speed in both directions (at least in Germany together with the Baureihe 50 tender locomotive) so they would work without turntables or wyes.

Probably in storage until needed. Railroad do not store empties in yards.

Storage.

I remember a dead end siding outside of Wilcox AZ that had about 70 diesel locomotives parked there as storage. They were there for about 2 years then they were all gone. Now it’s just an empty dead end siding. Sometimes a car can get isolated on a siding and the connecting track ripped up for whatever reason.

If you are going for a more modern layout, try sneaking in some old roadbed and fence lines that show where some old track used to be. Even buildings that curved to fit around an old siding for an industry that is not there. If you ever go onto google maps you can find lots of old track lines and empty roadbeds that show where rail is no longer needed.

You know what is crazy about railroads nowadays is that we “work off the main” at so many small industries, regardless of how much it delays our mainline trains. Even though I still see abandoned track where it would have been beneficial to leave it intact for safety or switching like you suggested.

There is usually a number in a box [4] that shows elevation in inches over baseline [0] -- top of the lowest rails/benchwork -- or a larger number [42] above floor. Grades are usually stipulated in percent [rise-over-run] at the top and/or bottom. "2.5% up --->"

@@blindjustice8718 thank you that really help’s appreciate it

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rcebZ5t2qtrdZoU.html

@@djstrains i suppose I should have figured you already did something about switching and I didn't remember or see it.

I'm in Southern IL. We had a very active coal mine area. They had a 4 track, stub end loader. I am guessing there was 50 car length's on either side of the tipple.

The track plan looks like at would work for the 1920s-1940s era. The eastern coal mines of that time had small short stub-ended tracks with a run-a-round for the loco.

I think even then there should be longer tracks for incoming and outgoing trains, runaround and maybe storage for additional cars.

correct!

The water tower is there it's farther to the right on the plans. I would say he should turn the engine house slightly eliminate the separate coal and ash track, move the coaling tower and ash pit try to get them in line with the the service building. Or hell you might be able to fit it in in between the service building and the water tower? Perhaps instead of a dedicated water tower track side build a column instead and move the tank somewhere else. What do you think?

My take is this is for continuous running varnish and time freights. The industries and yards are more for scenery -- to park cool rolling stock, cabooses, and locomotives -- than for operation.

@@Rubberduck055 i didn't see it and i've seen combined coaling towers and watering set ups before where the tank to it was? and norfolk and western had the ash pit on the same track as the coaling tower in Rowanoke and it also ran straight into the roundhouse with the lube shack on a track next to it they'd run a returning engine on to the ash pit then down to the coal tower/inspection pit top up the coal and water then to the roundhouse if no major repairs were needed they'd turn her around and throw the switch to the lube shack grease her up and spot her for redispatch!

Someone else's layout shouldn't irk you if they are happy with it. Most people have limited space and would like at least a basic line to run trains without having to switch and turn around. For example, I would venture to guess that shelf switching layouts running at minimum speed interest a very small percentage of people. I think a lot of beginner hobbyists get turned off by the negativity and all the folks who only want to throw around the word "prototypical." As they get into the hobby, they can make their layouts more realistic, sophisticated and detailed. I would also guess that most people would like to run a variety of trains and aren't worried about "prototype" or "era."

A circle can be useful for sending full and empty trains through the scenery in opposite directions. If a part of it is covered and used as staging or fiddle yard, it's both possible to use it as two seperate destinations, full/empty trains or as continuous track to check rolling stock, adjust decoder settings etc.

Timesaver can be built in 2' x 5' (HO). With the right industries, it can take 5 different types of rolling stock convincingly (especially 1960s and earlier) and doesn't scream, "TIMESAVER!!!" I use the "flattened" version from the ancient "HO Model Railroading Handbook" shown on p. 155 and explained on p. 157. The only difference I make is the short, single-car set-out track is off a wye switch to go under overhead silos. [All of John Allen's switches were wyes, cutting down necessary length of the module.]

There's a bit in the chapter Example starting at 15:49

yikes

Brakemen are rare now, it's normally a two person crew. If there is a third it's usually a Conductor Trainee.

@@cp368productions2 Oh ok. I haven't really paid attention to how it changed.

@@williambryant5946 I live at the interchange between NS and the RSR, both locals are two person crews, haven't had a Brakeman in oh probably 10 years or more.

@@cp368productions2 Yeah it's been around 15 years since I've paid attention to crew size or railfaned or kept up with real railroading. I thought I'd heard something about it some years back but wasn't sure if I'd heard it correctly. RSR?

@@williambryant5946 Rochester & Southern

Hahaha front end loader is what I brain farted on