Yeah possibly - though I suspect the biggest concern for them would be missing out on sales/profits - and going public with it could have encouraged more people to buy them. The safety concerns are valid though - we don't know if they're identical to the official versions of the models or not! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

@@SamsTrains I bet their going out the back door and are the real article. Some dodgy Chinese scam, probably run by the factory personnel. It's a bit like the "grey" import issue with the likes of cameras and stuff.

@@SamsTrains I agree, even if they are using the exact same factories/tooling as Dapol does so that these aren't cheap knockoffs but the actual product. If you end up seeing the product you want for cheaper elsewhere, of course you'll want to buy it from them. It would be like seeing a loco on Trainworld and a much lower price than the MSRP from Bachmann's website, why would you buy direct from Bachmann? Well if people don't know these are "counterfeit" products, the same thought process will be there too.

Most of those " fake" models I saw came from the same manufacturer in China who builts for Dapol and were identical models​ my advice fir Dapol seitch to manufacturer in Korea or Turkey and cut your own marge which is 70 % of Msrp. @@SamsTrains

When you visit a shop in China, there is the front of the shop and then various back rooms which you get to if they believe you are not out to get them. They show you the genuine articles, the “fake fakes” - knock offs pure and simple and usually of dubious quality, and “genuine fakes” the best of which were actually manufactured by the factory which does the real thing - usually after the QA folk from “the brand” is not on site. When we were manufacturing in China, we fought this practice by having our QA hold the branding tools, labels and stickers. Qualified success as they forged those for the knock offs. They also reset the production counters. It is a battle over there.

It's just 0-16.5 . Been around since forever

A tad irritating that they're bringing out British On30 this year, because they just downsized their American On30 line.

Yeah that's fair to say - I suppose then they're relying on LNER modellers to prop up the scale which doesn't seem wise... but if they're not willing to invest massively in the scale, then it is the second best idea you're right! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Also, as an East Coast modeller, it's good to see a major manufacturer not taking yet more LMS or GW. Until relatively recently, the LNE had been badly served (Gresley Pacifics apart). I think it makes a refreshing change for a manufacturer to specialise on a different area of the country. Yes I know I'm biased, but still!

Ahh interesting - can't believe that'd be ruled fine... though I suppose things are different in China... I'm sure Dapol aren't regretting their shifts towards UK based production! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

⁠China has no concept of copyright or intellectual property. I don't want to get too deep into geopolitics here, but if you knew all the technology and designs China has stolen from western countries, you'd be horrified. It's not an accident all of their military equipment looks like knockoffs of American equipment. Several years ago they hacked almost every major US defense contractor, most notably Lockheed-Martin, where they got full plans and specs for stealth jets. This attitude extends all the way down their economy. If you have a product made in China, you better expect knockoffs to appear. Heck, you don't even have to make the product there if it's easy enough for them to copy.

@@Studio23MediaAbsolutely right from my bitter experience

@@SamsTrains One problem, if I may mention it. Apart from railways, I also have an interest in 'high-end' 1/18th scale model cars. Just about the finest manufacture of all, CMC, sell their cars in the £500-£1000 range: they are made in China. It has been estimated that if they were to return their manufacturing to Germany, prices would treble, putting these glorious hand-built (yes they are!) models completely out of the reach of all but the very wealthy. Remember - when Hornby originally shifted production from Britain to China, their locomotives instantly went from toys to superb models. And there lyeth the problem.

​@Studio23Media let's not get too carried away. The Germans, British, and US manufacturers all were copying each other's products, even down to the same numbers. Bing had to take on Ives for for their rip off's, meccano took märklin to court, bing took hornby on about copyright. China's just a modern manufacturer but it's never been just a Chinese problem

Yeah, it's not a new scale 😂

haha exactly!!

YOU guessed right ! THEY ARE !

Awesome! Are they looking good??

@@SamsTrainsyes

Ahh interesting - I'm guessing the term NG7 is new though?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

​@@SamsTrains just the term. Have a look at their older 0n30 range for the US market that hasn't weathered the market very well...

Thanks a lot James, absolutely! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Thanks a lot Brian!

@@SamsTrains you're welcome Sam's trains

hahaha!

Thanks a lot David - wow £50 is fantastic - you probably won't like the price of the new ones haha! That's awesome too - hope you enjoy DCC! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

haha I know - they've really upped their game!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

haha that'd be awesome! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Are the couplings on the Bachman narrow guage models compatible with Hornby oo

​@caledonianrailway1233 dosent look like it but i want for 1 for fun and hope they can be

⁠The models use NEM pockets so you could swap them to whatever you like. They will come with a version of the prototypical chopper coupling and a simpler item for close coupling the rolling stock.

@@andrewblades8368 great thanks

Yeah that's right - prices just silly for the new stuff - thought they were trying to get it to take off?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

I model TT120, and yes I would love the prices to be cheaper, however it doesn't matter to me how they compare with 00, as I would never buy that scale as I just don't have room for anything worthwhile in it. As long as new stuff keeps coming out I'm happy.

@@trevorbell3571Well said Trevor. Finally someone with a bit of common sense. It was never about making things cheaper. It was about growing the options and hobby.

Covering the whole hobby in TT120 quickly was always beyond one company. However Hornby basically drove off all other manufacturers by announcing a huge range for the future. Another manufacturer entering the scale has to contend with Hornby releasing the same product as they did with several others in OO a year or so ago.

The prices and variety are really hurting. There's basically no secondhand market, very little support from anyone or anywhere else, and the Intercity 125 set is approaching price parity with O gauge!

Thank you so much Caden that's lovely to hear! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Ahh interesting - were they previously available, or new for now? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

@SamsTrains they were new for 2024 for arnold tt and then changed to hornby tt they were the same ones and they also had previous versions which were maersk,dhl and ONE. Good wagons I have some.

The Arnold ones came out a few months ago. They sold out quickly. They are basically the same just with different containers

@damianinCanadaTT-OO the new hornby were on Arnold's site after announcement from hornby they switched to their website and dearer.i think someone did a vid on it showing the container wagon on both sites for a while and different prices.

haha fingers crossed! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

And they could have done a non-Welsh loco with more universal appeal in 009. They needed something more generic. None of the Bachmann 009 locos are any use to me. The nearest they got to my wallet was the Hunslet 0-4-0Ts.

Nah not too many - but at least plenty are in the works! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

They had the exact same situation when they ran their Triang Railways TT3 / TT100 range, between 1956 and 1965. The TT3 models cost the same to produce as the OO guage equivalents, so the company cut the profit margins on their TT3 models. However, 1960's railway modellers still complained that the TT3 models cost as much as the larger OO equivalents. This was what killed the first British foray into RTR TT model railways, back in the 1960's. Sixty years later and will Hornby's TT120 fail for the same reason as their previous TT3 venture??

Hornby TT:120 has never been marketed as the “more affordable” option. It’s a premium product. In the same way that a newly-tooled Graham Farish is premium, Hornby TT:120 is premium. And you’re comparing apples to oranges. The OO HST that comes in the train set is a decades-old tooling. It’s quite dated, but it does get the job done as an affordable product. The new TT HST is a brand new tooled locomotive, that is more akin to the recently upgraded OO HST that retails for hundreds of pounds.

Yeah - I think a lot of the prices have been reasonable for the TT locos so far - that's no longer true with the likes of the J50... that's actually more expensive than many OO scale 0-6-0s... not a good look! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Hornby tt prices looking more eye watering with each new release. £350 for a hst train set!?!?!? I think tt will dying by next year, especially with yet another awful trading update from Hornby yesterday.

@@NgaugeShelfLayouts That’s the DCC sound version, which features two decoders. If you’d like, you can go for the DC version for 250 pounds. And you can save 20 pounds by buying at the retailers for 229.99 GBP. That features a newly tooled locomotive, an unpowered version of the newly tooled locomotive, two newly tooled coaches, an oval of track, a controller, a re-railer, and a transformer. The sets are a really good value.

Thanks Dennis

@@SamsTrains Any time Sam

No problem at all - there may not be a lot they can do, but hopefully knowledge is power for people! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

@@SamsTrainsI'm certain they'll definitely be finding a new factory to work with. 😂

just went on ebay for a look out of curiosity, these products are definatly there, and lots of them. reading some of the product reviews though... seems like people more than a month ago started to suspect these were 'fake' items, ore something not right with them

There's quite a few running examples of the powerplant still earning their keep so maybe they've recorded one of those

Oh that's on Ebay??? What is the Murphy 121 priced at? There is a seller on Taobao who has the 121s at 850 RMB, and upon further investigation, they have Dapol O scale 14xxs too. :o

@@azuma892 The murphy 121 is priced around the same as the dapol stuff abotu 160 quid

Hmmm interesting - that's not really a good price for the Murphy 121 actually! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

@@SamsTrains I don't really know much about the model, would you say they should be a lot cheaper?

@@trainman86trainstramsandmoreIf it's the typical method of a Chinese factory making a legitimate product and then making unauthorized knockoffs after hours, the product will be generally the same, but they'll use cheaper parts or skimp on quality. Their knockoffs are rarely as good as the originals. Though I can't say for certain in this case.

Ahh interesting - I hadn't realised the later sets had lights - I just can't believe they don't get everything worked out before releasing the models... everything seems so chaotic and rushed.... Thanks for watching, Sam :)

I totally understand the frustration but FOMO often costs and they had said they were going to do a HST train set in the catalogue. I think train sets are a lost leader created to get people into the hobby. A bit like game consoles

well said Damian. It’s getting a bit wearying Sam for you to continue to make digs at Hornby’s expense. Everyone could see the upcoming HST sets. It was well trailed. And the price is keen because the sets are the best way to get folk into the hobby. Which is what we assume we all want to happen more… Right now we have the 50 out in a month, then the Duchess in the summer, then the J50 in October, and then the 66 before the year end. Thats not including the rolling stock: 21T wagons, all the new coaches just out, the hoppers coming soon, and IFAs too. That and the buildings - pubs, terraces homes, shops, croft house, church - in just released. And then the coming accessories too. I really have no clue what you think constitutes a busy release schedule if that doesn’t! Consider the double standards - Bachmann release a handful of O scale narrow gauge - and no criticism of limited range at all. I do think you’ve gotten into a rut with your Hornby takes. Please come back to the cheery chappy that got us all watching in the first place! 😊

⁠Perhaps Hornby could stop making so many awful decisions that make people angry and not want to buy their products. They completely lost me when they started undercutting all their competition's new releases. It's a really bad look.

So Hornby are not allowed to develop their products to prevent upsetting those that bought earlier versions. Hmm.

A Fairlie could well be a possibility as Bachmann spent 2 days measuring everything possible at Boston Lodge before the 009 models were produced.Linda/Blanche perhaps first.A Garratt even,it has been a rumour in 009 circles for some time.That would be awesome.

It's an established but uncommon scale. In Europe it's usually called O-16.5, while over here in the US it's On30. It's a bit of a boutique scale, not a lot of ready made stuff for it but a big kitbashing community. Bachmann are actually the biggest manufacturer of O scale narrow gauge, they used to do a lot of American narrow gauge O scale stuff.

Thanks Justin!

Wow can you imagine that?! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Bachmanns previous 0 scale narrow gauge range hasn't weathered too well, and I believe they've canned the range. This new UK variant I'm guessing they're hoping might be met with more success

While Hornby is [courageously] bringing British models into TT scale, from what I've read, there is already TT in Europe and USA [which I assume is why they use 120 scale and not the original TT 3mm to the foot]. So at least there will be a scale where British locos and accessaries, will be in the same scale as the rest of the world.

​@@muir8009If you're referring to their American On30 range, most of it is quite alright but they have indeed downsized heavily. I hope they do the same thing they did with Talyllyn and bring the "NG7" international.

@asteroidrules that's the range. Bit of a shame it's been downsized, I had read (to be taken with a grain of salt of course) that the market was considerably less than anticipated at sales had just plateaued. But the way I feel is that good on the manufacturers for trying. If they couldn't be bothered we'd just have the original gauges I, II and III

Ahh interesting - they seem to be doing well with narrow gauge! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

It's new ! Some 2nd hand TT can be found on ebay and also new products sold at very reasonable prices compared to the RRP. I hardly think all these 00 gauge fans buying only 2nd hand is helpful to the hobby ! :)

Ahh awesome!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Yes! I do have plans to look at least one of those :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Yeah that's right - not sure why they're not calling it ON30 actually! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Absolutely - they look great! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Yeah absolutely - I'm personally waiting for another manufacturer to do one! I'm not paying £200 for such an old model Thanks for watching, Sam :)

And a Cauliflower

How about a Webb 'Problem' (either 2-2-2-0 or 2-2-2-2), with drivers revolving in opposite directions when starting ;-)

Yeah I heard they were at an exhibition - do they look good?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

@@SamsTrains yes they look really good and high quality. They also ran very well

Didn't? I suppose it's because a lot of their rolling stock is LNER flavoured at the moment... the better solution would have been to do a Jinty and the rolling stock to match... but I guess they're not investing that heavily! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

@@SamsTrains It's good to see LMS fans squirming over a lack of equipment. Makes a refreshing change. From an LNE man! ;-)

Thank you so much! No I wouldn't recommend the Railroad 14xx as the motor wasn't the only issue! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

It sure is!!

Yeah absolutely! I doubt it unfortunately as they're £200 each and supposedly haven't been produced yet - they may be waiting to see how pre-orders go before making the factory order... in which case they may not be left in stock to get discounted! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Yeah I've seen a few suspect models myself in the past - but this is the first time I've seen a manufacturer speak out publicly about it - a very strange and worrying situation for them! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

I haven't actually - that does sound very interesting! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Yeah that's right - I'm hoping to do a review soon! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

I'm seriously thinking to go for it before any review. Around the 250€ mark, uh... But I am happy with my two 9F no motor issues on them... Well, If I can find her now at Modelbahn-Union, maybe...

@@OlivierGabin I;ll do the same, wait till it drops on MU. I got my Hermit for £110! Since Brexit, Modelbahn Union is my to go place, but I feel sorry for the small UK shops I used to buy online from.

LMS locomotives in TT:120 are due to start arriving in the next month or two. GWR locomotives are coming later.

Oh, never knew about that

Wish I have some photos, they don't appear online often. The physical toy store I saw those in didn't allow photos, I wonder why haha.

Yeah I've heard about those - never seen any for sale myself though! Thanks for watching, Sam :)