How to take Advantage of Genre || D&D with Dael Kingsmill

Рет қаралды 36,503

3 жыл бұрын

This time on MonarchsFactory we're gonna get academic and talk about genre theory and how using or fighting generic expectations can help or hinder your Dungeons and Dragons game.
Computer programming basics with my Uncle: • Beginner Computer Prog...
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Пікірлер: 236

@mcolville 3 жыл бұрын

Centaur of Attention, lol.

@atomictree5000 3 жыл бұрын

OMG, Mathew Colville. The one and only!

@Langtw 3 жыл бұрын

Why do I have such a vivid mental image of Matt chuckling while watching the video on his phone.

@dawncoyote 2 жыл бұрын

Big Piers Anthony energy

@RashidMBey 3 жыл бұрын

Dael: Did I hit record? Both of us: Yes. Me: Did you focus? Dael: I'm quite focused, yes.

@kingcrow15 3 жыл бұрын

Dael: I have approximate focus in many videos...

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

I feel attacked but I also laughed very hard

@rhkennerly 3 жыл бұрын

It’s okay. I enjoyed reading the titles of the books we normally can’t quite read.

@stevenklinden 3 жыл бұрын

@@MonarchsFactory On the plus side, your board games and books were beautifully in focus.

@raz8752 3 жыл бұрын

This better teach me how to effectively run a romcom dnd campaign

@thegreatandterrible4508 3 жыл бұрын

You know how to flirt? There you go.

@HarryH256 3 жыл бұрын

Misunderstandings occur, hijinx occur. It all ends happily

@TheBigHerman007 3 жыл бұрын

The romcom was the Friends we made along the way.

@notequalto5179 3 жыл бұрын

I've always wanted to do this!

@unitjax9507 3 жыл бұрын

Oh, the main couple aren't even players, the players are the couples friends who are constantly trying to set them up, and make sure their dates go well, they are safe, the players have to do random quests to get items for the couple who need gifts for each other

@johncheshirsky8822 3 жыл бұрын

"This is a D&D video" [proceeds to read a 20 minute lecture on history of literature and literary genres] You sneaky you, you made me learn!

@LegacyFilmAus 3 жыл бұрын

Yes, and D&D is also kind of a western. The posse head into town, grab a drink at the saloon, and look for work. They often want compensation for being a hero and leave the town having had their adventure and having learned a lesson.

@nicholasvandervelden450 3 жыл бұрын

A classical medieval western fairytale, as my favourite summation has it.

@BenGreen1980 3 жыл бұрын

Specifically, Lost Mine of Phandelver is a western. The lawman has been kidnapped, the remote prospecting town lives in fear of a resident gang of ruffians, and there's a race to find and control a lost mother lode.

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

Yes! I was so annoyed I forgot to bring up how easily D&D can slip into the domain of the western! If you want to do a genre dip, can't get a better alignment than the wild west

@barbaricspacewhale1892 3 жыл бұрын

Heck, gold panning and revolvers have actually been part of D&D culture since AD&D!

@Suunai 3 жыл бұрын

Bold of you to assume my party learns any lessons.

@DurandalsFate 3 жыл бұрын

One genre convention that's mostly taken for granted is that D&D settings tend to be post-apocalyptic: there was a Golden Age when the most powerful artifacts were crafted (and the most powerful mages and monsters rose), and then that civilization fell, and now people are relegated to raiding tombs, undertaking quests, or just killing and looting to acquire the largesse of that fallen civilization. It reflects the popular concept of a medieval European "Dark Age" following the collapse of the grand Roman Empire.

@Sentinel_Soul 3 жыл бұрын

Dael: "i'm eating chocolate and none of you can stop me" All the grandmas that were sent this video: "I see this as an absolute win"

@euansmith3699 3 жыл бұрын

I guess than an entertaining way to handle a "classic" heist movie, would be to play the heist through twice. The first time, the PCs always succeed on each action they attempt (unless it is too daft and breaks the genre conventions); this is the planning session. They then play through the actual heist with normal die rolls; to see how far the execution deviates from the plan.

@4n3c 2 жыл бұрын

this is brilliant, gonna borrow that idea for my next session(s)

@euansmith3699 2 жыл бұрын

@@4n3c Since writing that comment, I have played "Blades in the Dark", which has a great approach to doing heists. Instead of doing in depth planning, the PCs jump right in to the heist. They chose their target and their general approach. So the players might say, "We are going to rob the garrison's treasury; and we are going to use disguises to do so." You then start them off at the first obstacle they might encounter, and play the heist through from there. The clever part is "flashbacks". Whenever the PCs come up against something that they haven't prepared for, they can ask for a Flashback. The player describes what their character did before this moment to help them overcome the current obstacle. For example; faced with guards patrolling the perimeter and using a whispered pass word to enter and leave the target building; a player might say, "I spent a few hours watching the guards and trying to spot what their password is." You can then allow them to make a suitable skill or attribute roll to see if this flashback is useful to the character. This way you can go straight to the exciting part of the mission, rather than players spend an hour or two trying to cover every possibility in the heist.

@DougDanger9 3 жыл бұрын

"It's weird, but I'm sticking with it." That's why I keep coming back.

@chrisschuber9149 3 жыл бұрын

"Romeo & Juliet..." ???? "By Shakespeare" Ohhhh

@Beaurisque 3 жыл бұрын

Wait, someone made an adaptation of that movie with Leonardo Di Caprio ? And what's a dumb pseudonym, Shake Spear :O

@Uhshawdude 3 жыл бұрын

@@Beaurisque Bill Wigglestick

@AggroJordan86 3 жыл бұрын

@@Beaurisque an early German reality TV contestant before scripted reality famously did not know about Shakespeare. His genuine assumption was: Shake's Beer! Bonus: they actually made a Shake's Beer afterwards. Sadly, it did not do well.

@euansmith3699 3 жыл бұрын

@@Uhshawdude That gave me a genuine LOL. Now I want to play a Halfling Dramatist.

@live4twilight4ever 3 жыл бұрын

There is something so magical in the moment where you (or your players) realize "oh, we're in a different genre, now."

@euansmith3699 2 жыл бұрын

Players, "Ew! It's Body Horror!" 😁

@scienceguy8888 3 жыл бұрын

A little add on to this talk of genre and D&D (or other rpgs); Every DM has their own genre. They will have unique quirks that they will always creep into their games regardless of the "genre" they are playing, because people have likes and dislikes. If you want to become a better GM you can't have a better start than learning what your personal "genre" is and understanding how that will mesh with your players.

@kokorodaki4017 3 жыл бұрын

And building on to that, your regular players are gonna figure out what your quirks are as a DM, and you can use those in the same way that genre-based things can. Thinking about this, I relate it to a lot of RPG video games. You're on a quest, and start finding lots of potions? There's probably a big boss-fight coming up soon.

@frigginsepone446 3 жыл бұрын

About BAD quirks: Me: What's the friggin problem? She's exactly your type of girl, why are you giving her the cold shoulder? Player: You know, Sep, you always kill the girls we're dating. Like... ALWAYS! Me: Uhm... true, I guess. (And that had actually been the plan, AGAIN) Bad idea to use the same trigger again and again, it took lots of successful dates with non-lethal outcomes to repair the damage.

@Langtw 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, no matter what I do, I always end up having ruins from an ancient civilization and Elder Gods. I won't plan it, someone will ask an unexpected question, and then now there's Cthulhu.

@GoblinLord Жыл бұрын

@@Langtw Oops, all Cthulu

@rwolfheart6580 3 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU for mentioning that Dragon Age is a Renaissance (I'd say more vaguely early modern tho) setting. It's a big pet peeve when people call settings like that medieval. They have printing presses! Widespread literacy! Theatre in prose! Baroque architecture!

@pedroscoponi4905 3 жыл бұрын

This was a _good one,_ yknow? As someone who's been on both sides of the DM screen, I can say: the most dangerous thing about genre and using it, is when your very genre savvy players use their savvyness to "win." I remember my dm in 3.5 kept trying to tempt my LG cleric in a miriad of ways, pushing for that story of corruption, but I never really _rolled with it_ so much as I resisted with every fiber of my being. It made perfect sense to me back then, but now I feel like it was a mistake on my part. So yeah, be aware - players will sometimes use their understanding of the genre to _undermine it_ instead, specially if they're very green! "Yes and" can get thrown out the window if a beloved PC's safety is at stake...

@Batinsee 3 жыл бұрын

I love that Dael shows me all the critical theory I learned in grad school finally has a practical purpose.

@ninthlevelcantrip799 3 жыл бұрын

Chain of Acheron shade!!! Heist! Heist! Heist!

@Taurusus 3 жыл бұрын

This is something I've also tended to apply to my writing in general! As a youth I thought I was super smart by making things embarrasingly complicated for no good reason (oh look you actually explicitly cited changing which way is North on a compass, how fun for me!), and it took me a while to realise how many pages/chapters you *don't have to write* if you trend towards creative application of genre norms instead of subverting them exclusively to be "different". Cool video Dael, nice to have vague concepts that float around my head laid out in an easily digestible, concise format.

@RashidMBey 3 жыл бұрын

30 minutes before I DM my favorite group, and best believe 24 minutes of that is devoted to a gale of Dael. A breath of fresh air for fresh DMs like moi.

@drskelebone 3 жыл бұрын

Dael: "You have six players, and two of them are there to be funny and crack jokes." Me:

@beepboprobotsnot3748 3 жыл бұрын

Only two?

@BetterMonsters 3 жыл бұрын

Dael, you consistently make the best D&D content on the internet. Thank you for allowing us to benefit from your experience

@ZipperonDisney 3 жыл бұрын

This is a really thoughtful video Dael - just the kind of content that made me fall in love with your content :) Something I do along these lines is the different regions in my setting are specific to a genre or flavor of fantasy. The Northlands is sword and sorcery, RumBlood is swashbuckling, Shade Meadow is wuxia etc. It helps hard bake genre expectations into the sessions though the world.

@GeorgieBonsoir 3 жыл бұрын

I've done this too, except in my case, it was dark fantasy (akin to Dark Souls) in the western nations, and dark sci-fi (akin to Warhammer 40k) in the eastern nations, with a little cosmic horror thrown in. The key is to signal that change with a tone-setting description, or an event that is distinctly from that genre, such as (in my case) seeing an 'eldritch space worm drift past the sky with thick clouds obscuring its form'; as I'm sure you did too, with something like a 'clearly pirate-looking and pirate sounding fellow' approaching the party and saying something to do with 'their ship'.

@thebakerofbananabread3237 3 жыл бұрын

"I am an angel, I am the moon!" I am radiance in an Aussie Afternoon!

@tristanescure7384 3 жыл бұрын

Really insightful video. I think stories deeply speak to the quirks of the human mind. Our brains LOVE pattern recognition, will see paterns where there are none and feel wierd when a pattern is broken. To succesfully subvert expectations, it's important to hide a different pattern in the expected one, rather than break something and replace it with nothing.

@tom3266 3 жыл бұрын

It brings up another interesting thought: tone, and the way it influences what (sub)genres you can reach for, and the WAY you do so. You can run a fantasy D&D campaign in many tones ranging from serious to downright slapstick. Crime Noir is an example of a very powerful genre for players to key into because it is highly distinct in its characteristics. It has inspired parody for ages; as such, despite noir being a serious genre, for a light-hearted campaign, it could be much easier to shift to because there already is flexible buy-in from the players that it's not going to be hard-boiled perceived realism. In this way, the social contract of humor invites creativity.

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

True! It's like how Community could easily switch to that sort of genre as a show because it had a loose comedic grip on tone from the beginning, whereas if a serious legal drama tried it, it would be a bit harder to swallow

@tom3266 3 жыл бұрын

@@MonarchsFactory Absolutely!

@TheNerdySimulation 3 жыл бұрын

I think in specificity with games there is also a matter of recognizing the concept of "system = setting" or, as I prefer to call it, Quasi-Lore. The rules of a game are an inherent reflection of the generalized world/genre's laws of physics. If there isn't a magic system for a game, then that implies there aren't spellcasters. If you're reading this and think "but homebrew exists" then you've severely missed the point. You're free to change rules, just as you're free to change genre... Nobody is here to tell you how to play a game, but understand that when a game gives the PCs multiple base features centered around murderizing, they are going to expect the game to feature at least _some_ murderizing.

@Armaggedon185 3 жыл бұрын

There's a potential follow-up video to this one (though it might be more Colville's style), talking about how sometimes the dice and the rules can actually play against the genre we expect. For example, from high fantasy, we expect maybe a handful of dramatic character deaths. However, any veteran of D&D can tell you that the dice don't always play ball. When a TPK happens, we're completely blindsided because we followed the rules and the dice, but they don't necessarily play to genre. Likewise, some GMs might feel this when their expected epic boss battle goes by too quickly, since they were expecting a dramatic confrontation (though the players get to feel powerful, so they may not feel it as acutely). This is a tricky thing to manage, and I certainly don't have the answer to it just yet, but perhaps the takeaway is to just run the game in a more dramatic style, employing the rules only when you want to engage those systems. One handy tip for anyone wanting a rollicking action-adventure game, for example: the first shots from the bad guys always miss, just to let the heroes know that they're there.

@chocolatebunnies6376 3 жыл бұрын

In thirty years we will be e-mailing these to our grandchildren. And the way you say crime noir makes it sound like a dessert. A just dessert. With ice cream. And liquorice. Scented with a smoking pipe from an empty barrel. On the house.

@tylerreed2409 3 жыл бұрын

I think for heists a big help is to get your players to lay out their plan ahead of time, then work with them on what the metrics for success are (such as how they get materials/specialists they need) and then give them time to recalibrate when they fail. I think heists, like a lot of sneaky stuff suffer if you stay too close to the rules because it starts to feel pointless if one failed check can ruin the plan. So letting fails potentially imperil the plan is essential to the fun, but allowing them to feel that their solutions just barely pulled them through is the preferred results of fails.

@billlocke3294 3 жыл бұрын

One of the best examples of setting up expectations and then breaking them is The Canterbury Tales. The prologue starts out talking about seasonal changes, giving the impression of a nice pastoral story, then the next 4 lines talk about the cosmic changes taking place giving the impression of an classical epic, then the next 4 talk about nature and singing birds giving the impression of a fairy story, and then the last 4 talk about a travel adventure. The question is whether Chaucer was having fun telling you that these stories were going to cover everything, or more that he was joking and these stories were simply about nothing and all the expectations that he set were tossed out. He blew up the concept of expectations and genre over 700 years ago.

@The_Slate1 3 жыл бұрын

Currently running a Riverdale style teen mystery drama, and this video was exactly what I needed to get some sappy teen schlock flowing.

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

You're doing the Lord's work

@92snorlax 3 жыл бұрын

18:22 Mr. Colville, you're being summoned to the table. But uh, only when you're good and ready.

@TheDeano444 3 жыл бұрын

My newest 5e game started with nothing. No world. No Gods. A blank canvas. I ran a game of Microscrope with an active input from the players, and in that single session, we as a group, developed more of a world than I could've in a month. It pretty much dictated the most of the questions we had as dm/players for technoloigal, social and cultural impact in this era. The genre was not mine; it was what we, as a group wanted to experience. As the DM, I have to build around that, which is honestly so much more interesting. Big love from Brissie

@LemonsOnFire 3 жыл бұрын

I don't know why but I was very happy to hear you refer to the world of One Piece.

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

I once tried to explain One Piece to my sister who doesn't watch anime. It was a confusing conversation. "Ok. So everyone is pirates because there's this famous treasure. But also some of the people who are inevitably pirates have random super powers because of devil fruit. If you eat a devil fruit you can't swim any more coz the sea wants to kill you, which is bad because almost the whole world is ocean. Also there's a man who fights with three swords at a time by holding one in his teeth. He's not a devil fruit person, he's just like that."

@MAKRA567 3 жыл бұрын

"It's easier to subvert the player's expectations if you give them something clear, obvious, and universal to expect" is my takeaway. Also might be easier to get the players to follow along with the story and pick up on plot cues with the genre expectations.

@chasetriesagain8539 3 жыл бұрын

My last big campaign was me stealing from crime noir flicks on a weekly basis. Keeping the tone alive hinged on the players being low level in a place where there were lots of people who were both more politically and magically powerful. The genre was definitely beginning to shift as the players leveled up and started to gain some leverage. Also: "I am an angel. I am the Moon. I am a light upon all." The Discord definitely isn't going to make this a Thing. Definitely not.

@rileywakeford8773 10 ай бұрын

I took the phrase "think about genre" and took it to the absolute extreme and now I've made a whole TTRPG focused on genre and tv tropes

@ThirdWorldSuavity 3 жыл бұрын

The background music sounds a lot like my alarm and I keep feeling like I'm about to wake up from a weirdly specific d&d dream.

@DaveTpletsch 3 жыл бұрын

I love the advice to use genre shorthand to subvert expectations, to set up expectations and then deviate from the expected outcome. It strikes me as being good storytelling design, in fact I KNOW it's good design because it's the same principle I was taught in college while learning 2D design. The principle I was taught was specifically "Repetition with Variation." The idea being, you set up a pattern, and then somewhere in the pattern, you alter things. Where the pattern changes you get a focal point, a place which litterally draws your eye and makes your brain go "Oh, that's interesting, that doesn't fit the pattern, I wonder why." It's a trick to make a viewers brain become interested and start piecing together the information it's gathered into a cohesive story. What Dale is talking about here is literally the same thing, just applied to DMing instead of 2D design, and in my experience as an artist, it's one of the most powerful tools to get your audience to engage with narrative. It's kind of an abstract concept, but I feel like Dael does an excellent job of explaining it.

@ed-chivers 3 жыл бұрын

Hi Dael, really loved this video - two things spring to mind in response. One - part of the fun in using genres in game is the act of subverting them. When players fill in the gaps as per genre expectations but then they have that "aha!" moment when they realise that the expectations they all made aren't quite right. Like a storytelling "bait and switch" Two - when you talked about genre switching between sessions, that made me think about my own game. I use music a lot, to set mood, and part of what I'm doing there is also cueing in my players as to what genre they're in at that point in time. In-game music is a really powerful storytelling tool, for me.

@bensonprice4027 3 жыл бұрын

I feel like I heard this quote before, but I have no idea who to give credit: "The difference between tragedy and comedy is all a matter of where the story starts and ends."

@mollywantshugs5944 11 ай бұрын

I love when tropes are actively used for misdirection, like the big plot twist in Knives Out (you know the one if you’ve seen it)

@wraithreaper22 3 жыл бұрын

Another wonderful day with the lovely Dael 🥰 yay!

@Addiradle1 3 жыл бұрын

Blades in the Dark does the revealing of the heist plans remarkably well, allowing flashbacks that allow the players to alter a scene by spending resources to say that they prepared for this in advance.

@Alessandro-vv2fh 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. This came out exactly at the right time, you're always very thoughtful.

@Haiddon 3 жыл бұрын

that thing you mentioned about poetry being interesting once you know the rules and you're able to tell how and why they broke the rules is actually my exact approach to homebrew. like you want to know exactly what rules you're going to be breaking, and why, and what it'll add to, or take away from, the game.

@mateofantasma 3 жыл бұрын

Brilliant! Thanks for sharing these ideas.

@StubbornProgrammer 3 жыл бұрын

Well those videos with your uncle were quite the trip. It's been a long time since I had to explain any of that stuff, so I got hit pretty hard by nostalgia. Best of luck with your project!

@CountsDigGraves 3 жыл бұрын

I finished reading Walter Moers' 13½ Lives of Captain Bluebear last night and my understanding of genres is on a break for a while.

@dannys_78 3 жыл бұрын

A friend of mine ran a one-shot for us last year where the setting and rules were D&D but it was really just the climax of the Avengers movie - we all played different Avengers characters (including a few not in that movie) and basically had to fight our way up Stark tower to take out Loki and all the aliens pouring through the portal - but it was all couched in the D&D lore and races and rules... and yet, this genre twist worked well, mashing up superheroes and the high fantasy of D&D. It was good fun :)

@iampixilated9732 3 жыл бұрын

hey dael, thank you so much for making this video. i realized a little over a year ago that no matter what genre of game i tried to run, it either didnt feel organic, or my players were acting like i was going to pull the rug out from them and make it suddenly survival/social horror. since then i have made my own TTRPG based around the social horror, akin to the emotional depth that even un-named protagonists in lovecraftian stories usually have, purely to have my 'world' fit better with their expectations. so now when im looking at different kinds of players, and attempting to get people to help me playtest it. everyones first question is 'why didnt you just use dnd, or even call of cthulhu'. and i never have a good way to explain to them the concept of expected genre. NOW I DO. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

@neilwato 3 жыл бұрын

This is the first video of yours that I've seen. Thanks for putting in the effort. I learned something!

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry that the first video you saw was so out of focus 😭

@SyvernSycor 3 жыл бұрын

You would be so much fun to watch live on Twitch. Hearing your commentary, and reacting to videos in your area of interest would be great to watch.

@ricstubbs6802 3 жыл бұрын

The history of music is also the history of following established forms but changing them enough to keep it interesting. Beethoven's 5th Symphony, 1st Movmt. famously, followed a standard form of the time, stating a theme, restating it, then developing it, then appearing to recapitulate with an ending, but instead of ending it adds an entire new development section. If you listen to it, you can probably tell where the fake ending is. In a similar vein, fantasy author Brandon Sanderson talks about how authors make generic promises by the conflicts they set up in their stories, and much of the spice of storytelling is fulfilling that promise in an unexpected way.

@apocalypticmoth6040 3 жыл бұрын

Very informative video! Thanks again!

@Nichoma 3 жыл бұрын

I've been thinking over how to run an upcoming heist dream of my players in dnd for months, and you pointing out that there's always a big reveal of how its done at the end is trope really made me realize why nothing ive written feels right. The new idea I just had after this to give it that mix of not knowing everything is the crime syndicate they are tangled with to do the heist could send one of their men with the party as like a heist chaperone. Then this guy who maybe knows the layout of the place or has staked out guard shift changes becomes vital and adds a factor that aren't wholly responsible for, giving it something uncertain. Idk, still needs work.

@ashanron8161 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Dael. This video is actually really helpful! Recently, I was wondering about how to make people come to an agreement of the setting with little needed effort. It might be a non-existent problem but for the recent groups I've played with this has became a problem for me. Your talk about genre really have inspired me on how to resolve this issue. Love your videos :)

@Wineblood 3 жыл бұрын

Not only do I like D&D and storytelling/writing, but also programming. This video hit all the spots.

@turnipslop3822 3 жыл бұрын

This was extremely helpful, thank you

@xelacremant7396 3 жыл бұрын

Ok so, I absolutely don't want to be an ass, but it's the second video in a row that I think I'm noticing a problem with the focus, which your camera seems to automatically make on your shelf behind you (that Mary Stewart - The crystal Cave is impeccably neat. Some would say CRYSTAL CLEAR, haha... Anyway). So yeah, just a head's up, excellent video. Pertinent, Eloquent as usual ;)

@MystWalkur 3 жыл бұрын

I've noticed it too, I thought my eyes were being stupid again

@Landoseixas 3 жыл бұрын

Came here to say the same.

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

I know, I was so sad when I sat down to edit 😭 I'm working on it

@MystWalkur 3 жыл бұрын

@@MonarchsFactory You just forgot to drop Blur, it happens to the best of us! lol Amazing video as always

@elivyre9439 3 жыл бұрын

I'm late, but you mentioned heists and I wanted to mention something I have been doing in my Eberron based crime thriller. I found the best way to replicate that classic twist of "Actually that was all part of the plan" is to steal a page from Blades in the Dark and give your players flashbacks. Basically have your player make the minimum viable plan, then as they encounter obstacles they can describe how they planed to overcome the obstacle. For example, if they discover a magical trap the wizard might ask if they were able to discover a way to disarm it. They you would have them roll arcana and describe their preparations. Honestly though if you want D&D style heists then buy Blades in the Dark. The game is really good and I say its worth looking into even if you just steal a few mechanics for your 5e game like I did.

@edwardchavers6229 3 жыл бұрын

Your mom's right. You are very cool. Thank you again for all the hard work.

@MindlessO_o 3 жыл бұрын

I am in love with your d&d videos! Right up there with Matt Colville. You are both definitely the best d&d KZfaqrs out there. Keep up the good work you beautiful soul, you're gourges

@cultsofkelsafar7647 3 жыл бұрын

I have definitely picked up random odd phrases from yours and others videos to use them in conversation, needless to say that "I'm not naming names, but I am thinking them very loudly" will be joining my repertoire. Also yeah, European geography is fun, especially when you realise that Denmark is the same latitude as Scotland.

@cultsofkelsafar7647 3 жыл бұрын

Also just wondering, what are your thoughts on firearms and flying machines in high fantasy and D&D?

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

I think that they're not typically for me in my more medievalist leaning game, but that the horizon of expectation of fantasy RPGs has been stretched enough to include them without feeling all that out of place should a DM want to use them.

@cultsofkelsafar7647 3 жыл бұрын

@@MonarchsFactory A clearly well thought out and eloquent answer. Thank you.

@civilbeard 3 жыл бұрын

This is good advice to help me temper my enthusiasm with worldbuilding. Some parts of the genre simply don't need subversion, and those bits I don't subvert save up capital for the bits I do.

@Dyrnwyn 3 жыл бұрын

You were brilliant with Questing Beast and the Bard the other day.

@HD-ct2un 3 жыл бұрын

I run so many of my games in non-traditional fantasy genres. Currently I’m running a gun blazing western campaign and a 1920s monster campaign, both combined with fantasy. Both of these have dragons and undead and all that you expect from a high fantasy game, but with western or gangster tropes. It’s fun to subverse genres with expectations associated with the other genre being interacted with.

@blackhillsbirder881 3 жыл бұрын

Great stuff! I tried running a western campaign a while back and felt that disconnect you describe- now running a high fantasy with the same group and feeling the click!

@chrishall5570 3 жыл бұрын

Playing with tropes in genre is always interesting to me both in games and other media since its usually how people determine whether they like the genre as a whole depending on how common that trope is within that genre. As an example I often find that I'm not big on high fantasy because I often get frustrated with how few rules a soft magic system has especially when it feels last minute or if it breaks pre-existing rules since it can be a little to convenient at times.

@WesAllen 3 жыл бұрын

I like tweaking the genre for specific purposes. To get my neighbors to play a pandemic game, for example, I set a one shot adventure inside a larger world that I’m planning-but the game follows Hallmark Movie tropes (My more established group declared this idea is called Howlmark). So it there was a lot of generic tongue-in-cheek moments getting to the ending. Now that the players decided to continue beyond the adventure the tongue-in-cheek is still there, but it’s being reduced a bit. My more established group finished a campaign and decided to run the one shot, but keeping established players on Hallmark Movie rails is nuts, and the ways we navigated that added all sorts of lunacy. But now that the one shot is over, the oddness of Howlmark is becoming a feature linked to what the Big Bad is after. But I write fantasy satire so this is how my brain works.

@martijnvanweele6204 3 жыл бұрын

A step deeper than this, but I like to use my players' knowledge of various works of fiction to help them understand my D&D setting. Recently, I ran a dungeon which they had learned had a bunch of basilisks. The entrance to said dungeon was barred with spider webs, and once they tried to cut through, they were attacked by giant spiders. All of my players have read Harry Potter, so they quickly surmised that the basilisks had invaded this place, and the spiders had made the web to trap them inside because spiders are afraid of basilisks. I'm planning to read up on _Artemis Fowl_ for an upcoming Feywild adventure...

@theKurtAnderson 3 жыл бұрын

An awesome example of dipping into genres for a few sessions is the Adventure Zone: Balance live play podcast. They had distinct macguffin arcs that did this well, with plays on action (Fast and the Furious), horror (Alien), mystery (Muster on the Orient Express), and more - all within D&D 5e high-fantasy! Highly recommended

@gulfharmony 3 жыл бұрын

The world of Krynn is hot-north, cold-south, because the main continent is in the Southern Hemisphere

@JacksonOwex 3 жыл бұрын

I want to make a world where the middle is cold and the poles are warm, mostly because I like going against the flow!

@charleybrett1663 3 жыл бұрын

@@JacksonOwex that would imply that the poles are somehow closer to the sun... pringle earth theory?

@monotonexylophone1623 3 жыл бұрын

@@charleybrett1663 yo-yo earth

@seileurt 3 жыл бұрын

Fuzzy Dael for fuzzy sets.

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

Yes... I did it to be on theme... Good thinking

@HS-iw1ed 3 жыл бұрын

Giving players a handful of Flashbacks, where they describe something they prepped earlier in game time but are revealing now might help with heists

@suthekb14 3 жыл бұрын

Great video Dael! Genre tropes and expectations are something brought up again and again when discussing D&D and you did a really good job of bubbling it down for someone without any background in the subject while still getting across it's application to GMing. Now I just need to watch an entire video series about... genre theory? Is that a thing? I'm a STEM guy... it's all new to me 😅 Another related (I think) topic I see come up often is narrative/dramatic/story structure. Matt has referred to this often, both structure elements (inciting incident/climax) and examples of the structures like the heroes journey or the three act structure but I don't recall ever seeing a video discussing them that didn't already assume you knew what they were. And I assume that each genre works better with specific structures? Again, mostly STEM guy who has never dived (dove? doven?) into this before, but to me it just makes sense that it would. Anyways, video idea? Or maybe you have a 'suggested reading/viewing' for me? Regardless, thanks for the video!

@DaBezzzz 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe some good examples of media that have overarching genres with expectations, but use accentuations in smaller installments are Doctor Who and Marvel. With Doctor Who, the overarching genre is sci-fi adventure, but that doesn't stop them from having a literal Agatha Christie detective episode, or a disturbing psychological horror episode where they never even learn the name of the monster (episode Midnight or something) and plenty of other things. Marvel has superhero as its overarching genre, but has Shakespearean-esque drama in Thor movies, wacky galaxy-hopping in Guardians of the Galaxy, wizard stuff in Doctor Strange etc.

@DaBezzzz 3 жыл бұрын

Btw Dimension 20's Fantasy High does this really well, but instead of subverting tropes, the GM combines the tropes, which is the source of a LOT of the humor. On the one hand, it's classic fantasy, on the other, it's a high school drama. A lot of the characters are funny and compelling because they fit in both genres; for example, Gorgug's parents are gnomes who are really nice and peaceful, but then you find out they have a crystal containing a fire elemental just casually somewhere, and a straight-up tank they usually use to mow the lawn.

@liamcullen3035 3 жыл бұрын

Here I am wondering if the out-of-focus Dael was a deliberate allusion to the “fuzziness” quality that she referred to. Such a cunning plan... Thanks for the great video! 😁 Making a unique world is very cool, but every point of difference from player expectations requires some amount of effort to impart (and again to remind the players when they forget). I think it is better to let generic expectations do most of the heavy-lifting! And save that effort for the important times; picking your battles like you said.

@MrsDixon-ip8vb 3 жыл бұрын

love this!

@LeviReeves 3 жыл бұрын

this video is a masterpiece

@jordangaudin6919 3 жыл бұрын

I saw the Dead of Winter box on the shelf and it solely convinced me to trust the youtuber. (And btw, thanks for speaking so clearly, I'm french and I understood it all. Mostly.)

@samchafin4623 3 жыл бұрын

"I'm not naming any names, but I'm thinking them really hard." ROTFLMAO!

@pocketsizedquasar3903 2 жыл бұрын

This is a stellar video (as all of yours are) but i just came to the realization upon a rewatch that the sitcom you're talking about might be Schitt's Creek? which is exciting if I'm right. that's all hope you're doing well

@JLawrenceKenny 3 жыл бұрын

"I'm not naming names, but I am thinking them very loudly" I feel like this is a dig at E. E. Cummings? Unless there is another anti-poet that Dael has mentioned before.

@ed-chivers 3 жыл бұрын

I had the same thought! Dael's telepathy is working!

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

No, E. E. Cummings is fine by me with the little I've read - comes across as knowing what he's pushing against poetically, like so many of the (good) modernists, and kind of wields form against itself. I do think work like his paved the way for the type of poets I'm thinking the names of loudly, though.

@bensonprice4027 3 жыл бұрын

She must be thinking of Shel Silverstein. 😆

@GodLikeDevil 3 жыл бұрын

@@ed-chivers Lang Leav?

@balijosu 3 жыл бұрын

Jewel.

@goatnorrisxxvii2512 3 жыл бұрын

I love these vids, keep it up :>

@natanoj16 3 жыл бұрын

A great heist adaption for ttrpg is blades in the dark and its use of flashbacks ^^

@JKevinCarrier 3 жыл бұрын

Some very perceptive analysis and great advice here, as always. Genre can be a double-edged sword, though. I'm wary of leaning on those familiar tropes too much, lest the players start to get a little *too* genre-savvy and start metagaming. "Ok, so there's a ghost haunting the inn that's scared away all the customers, and the innkeeper needs us to sort it out or else she won't be able to pay the rent and the landlord will foreclose on the property. We're obviously in a 'Scooby-Doo' episode, the 'ghost' is really the landlord, and there's some hidden treasure in the basement that he wants to get at. So let's just go kill the landlord, pull up the floorboards, and be done with it."

@pedrogomezid 3 жыл бұрын

my campaign is shifting from BOTW “Life in the Ruins” to Yakuza Crime Drama so this video is a godsend 😂

@SanJacintoArtGuild 8 күн бұрын

Well posited!

@Pb2plus 3 жыл бұрын

Hey I just wanted to add my own example. Typically Dnd is played in a anglo-saxonic culture. There is an expectation on how towns look like in that culture etc. I wanted my campain to be different so subconsciously I kinda named all towns and countries to be more latin sounding. That had the wanted consequence of without me saying anything the players understanding the "power structure and what to expect from a town, and the relationship with deities. But I didnt expect (though I enjoyed) that their character were created in line with my vision for the world, without me telling them to! All I did was present the setting and using latin sounding names for countries and cities.

@darshvia 3 жыл бұрын

Hahahaha. Always stay for the after-credits scenes.

@mirtul1 3 жыл бұрын

Maybe something interesting: I think DMs and writers are, in a way, a genre themselves. They have their own habits of how they set up a scene, what kind of characters they use etc. and your players get used to those habits and begin to expect them. For example, I love love love twists in my stories. The dog that followed you around was actually a Shifter master thief and is now robbing you blind. That kinda stuff. I don't really do this to surprise my players, they mostly have come expect it. But they also always play along, not because they don't know what will happen, but because they've come to like it. In general, I think my kinda storytelling leads to a lot of tension, because my players can never be quite sure if or how situations might change ... BUT twists are also kinda meaningless if you go for them every time. If there is no uncertainty whatsoever about there being a twist, then what's the twist? So it pays off to subvert their expectations and sometimes just make it so that things are as they seem. Funnily enough, this actually also leads to tension, because if I don't troll my players for while, they begin to think somethings up.

@CharlesStacyII 3 жыл бұрын

An excellent explanation as always Dael. I was wondering why you left the "Western" analogy out but we can't always remember everything. You did give me a lot to ponder. My players want a political Intrigue game next and that's a bit outside of my wheelhouse so lots of research for me. On another note though I did watch the video with your Uncle and loved it. The butcher paper was a stroke of genius.

@JMcMillen 3 жыл бұрын

"You've got your lead character and there are two possible love interests. You've got the guy that she has a crush on and then you've got her longtime funny guy best friend. And you look at that setup and you know that the best friend is endgame". So... you weren't watching 'Pretty in Pink' then.

@jebprendergast101 3 жыл бұрын

Tolkien: Writes incredibly eloquent essays on the nature of fiction and language. George RR Martin: THERE’S NOT ENOUGH INCEST.

@post1084 3 жыл бұрын

Dael's point still stands !

@HAERTofWINTER 3 жыл бұрын

Dael can you teach my Writing class please, I feel like I’d pay more attention if the literary concepts were explained through D&D. I’m so over the term “subvert genre”.

@bensonprice4027 3 жыл бұрын

As someone who runs a lot of published adventures from faerun, I completely threw out the idea of a 10 day week because there seemed to be no reason to use it and just caused confusion at the table.

@MonarchsFactory 3 жыл бұрын

Mhm, I feel that. Days of the week in my setting are just Monday, Tuesday, et al. If anyone ever happens to question it I'll do a handwavey "it's got a different name but you, the player, would understand the concept as Wednesday". And you know what? No one's ever questioned it.

@bensonprice4027 3 жыл бұрын

@@MonarchsFactory thanks so much for responding to my comment. And thanks for such insightful takes on story telling and D&D.

@crouchingmarker 3 жыл бұрын

My D&D world is a dome. The players bought a load of warm clothes to travel north, despite North being where the plane of fire touches the material and the sun both rises and sets.

@UnknownVir 3 жыл бұрын

Considering a writing project, part of it is gonna require studying a sample set (because I'm a nerd and it's not a format I'm familiar with). It's interesting how I didn't initially do that when writing poetry though. By not knowing, you can subvert things unintentionally which can either lead to creative expansion or a complete clash of traits.