Thank YOU!

Thank you for your information. I have this same set of sights on my 45-70 sharps. I have been trying to find information on how to use the sights. Any other information that you could direct me to would be appreciated.

@@kennyadkins744 What is your sight radius on your rifle (distance from the staff to the front sight)?

Many thanks!

The initial zero will depend on the load you are using and the front sight height. The point of impact of a 300 grain load is not the same as a 405 grain or 500 grain load. My suggestion would be to start at short range 25 meters/yards and make the adjustments so point of aim = point of impact. At 100 yards this setting will typically print high (depending on load) but you should be on paper. Once you've dialed in a 100 yard zero you can use a ballistic calculator to determine approximate zeros at different ranges. Knowing the velocity of your load and the BC of the bullet will be needed for those calculations to be most accurate. Your eye will naturally center the top of the (square) post in the sight picture and the desired POI right on top of it. If your front sight is beaded or a ring, center those within the aperture and center the POI within or behind. Hope that helps. harder to explain than to demonstrate.

@@SagebrushLongshots I have a LabRadar so I will check the velocity of my 300 grain cast Bullets . I started at 25 yards with my ladder style front sight it came with. I have a Hornady ballistic calculator I use for my precision rifles that works very well . Do you have a ballistic calculator you can recommend for cast Bullets ? Thanks for all your help !

@@1987foxl90 The Hornady is a good one. I like and use it myself.

@@SagebrushLongshots ok great! Thank you

You might want to give MVA a call and see if they have a mounting solution.

I'm not familiar with the method you described. The easiest way to do it is with a ballistic calculator. There are apps and web pages available for free and some reloading manuals have tables in the back. Plug in the numbers, bullet weight, ballistic coefficient (if known), velocity, front sight height over bore... Since you know your 100 yard zero is 34 you could plug in a 400 or 500 or whatever distance you wanted to zero and the program will give you how many inches above (usually) your 100 yard zero. For example: you want a 425 yard zero, the calculator says you need to be 18" high at 100 yards. In theory, assuming the increments on your sight are 1 MOA (or at least close) you should be able to dial up 18 more (52) and be on paper. Keep in mind with these old and slow cartridges at long ranges are affected by the rotation of the planet. Your zero shooting east will be different than your westward zero. Another method we use is to walk it in. You need a spotter and the right conditions for that. Keeping a log book with as much relevant data as possible will help get you there faster when you change loads. Hope that helps.

@@SagebrushLongshots Thank you very much sir. I really do appreciate it. My tang sight is a Meacham Tool and Die. That method that I mentioned is similar to adjusting a scoped rifle, you know, fire three shots, then adjust the cross hairs to the group.

Another way to analyze this. BTW, this applies to a 36” sight radius. An additional 24” of drop at 200 yards is an additional 12 MOA of sight adjustment Up from your 100 yard setting. We know that 1” equals 1 MOA at 100 yards. Plus or minus a very small fraction. At 200 yards 1” equals 1/2 MOA. At 200 yards 2” equals 1 MOA At 200 yards 24” equals 12 MOA At 300 yards 3” equals 1 MOA At 400 yards 4” equals 1 MOA SO If you know what the drop is at any given distance AND you know what you’re zero is at 100 yards you can easily calculate the additional MOA adjustments For your vernier sites

Here's what one of the pards had to say about your predicament. "Shims made from aluminum pop cans work to get the tang sight vertical. They cut easily with scissors to make narrow shims that can be slipped in on the side you want to raise to correct But I always considered that a temporary fix. Wind felt the same way. We figured out what it needed to get the sight perfectly vertical by shimming. Then once it was trued up, I removed the sight and filed metal off the sight base on the opposite bottom side to make it fit. Then remove the shims and reinstall the sight again. But if it's a inexpensive sight, you might want to just shim it until you save up for a good sight like an MVA or similar. Might not want to spend time correcting an inexpensive sight, and th.en maybe replace it later."

You are correct. The use of MOA in this video isn't 100% accurate but it is expedient and pretty close actually being the case. Another LONG video is needed to explain that. For now this hopefully will give most folks a basic understanding of how these sights work.

I'd like to see that! I have a 24" Chiappa 1892 wearing a Marbles, and I noticed 4 clicks basically wasn't quite the same as 4 clicks on my 20" Marlin 336 (wearing a Williams peep). I too have a fascination with long range lever shooting, so keep up the good work! Latest purchase is a Marlin 1894CB in 32H&R which is an absolute breeze to handload for - gotta love those carbide dies right?!

The only problem I have with 32 caliber Marlins is that I waited too long to buy them. Great caliber. The Ruger Single Six and Seven are a hoot too.

I noticed you guys shooting the 32-20 for pistol cartridge silhouette - i got my 32 for the exact same purpose. Originally i planned to use the 44mag, but I find it's just a bit too much gun for this application. i find it a bit fatiguing over a couple of 40-shot matches TBH, and the barrel heat mirage screws up my sight picture.

You'll like your 32 Cowboy for the silhouette game. When I had that same carbine my go too loads was a 100gr cast bullet over Unique (Alliant's data). Accurate and flat shooting at silhouette ranges - leg hold on the chickens, spine hold on the rams. Hodgdon Lil'Gun is GREAT in the 32 H&R producing some very impressive velocities. Overkill for silhouette, fun if you ever get the chance to ring some long range steel.

5 minutes on the staff (roughly). Depends on sight radius but it is usually pretty close. The video explains how to use the sight better than I can in the comments. We read from the bottom hash on the sight. To go up 1 MOA you would align with the next hash ABOVE the bottom hash with the closest above on the staff. For two MOA you'd align the second to the nearest above it on the staff. Hope that helps!

Ideally the bullet will print directly on top of the front sight post. We mostly use a thin post for the front sight. There are other styles which have advantages and disadvantages too. When looking through the sights focus on the front sight. Place the front sight on the target. Your eye will naturally center the front sight in the rear aperture. A gentle steady squeeze and a few seconds later you will be rewarded with a satisfying ding if you did it correctly. That is basically all there is to it. As you know with wind, varying distances, etc. adjustments will be required. Congratulations on the new rifle. Let us know how it shoots!

@@SagebrushLongshots Thanks for the reply, the rifle is a treat to shoot! Another question for the vernier sight though. So at a longer distance which requires the eye cup to be high on the staff, when looking through it should I try to use the front sight? It seems like that at a high staff position you wouldn't see the front sight unless you angled your head to find it and in your videos it looks like you just look through the disc. Sorry for the questions but it's hard to find specific info on such an old model of sight!

Yes, use both sights. It may feel a bit odd as your cheek hovers above the stock but it angles the rifle for the correct trajectory.

@@SagebrushLongshots Thanks again, I'll give it a try next time I'm at the range!

If you had a baseline zero and used a ballistic calculator you would get pretty close to dialing it in. Example: 100 yard zero is XX minutes. Plug in the numbers into the Ballistic Calculator for a 300 yard zero. Look at the height above zero at 100 yards to determine how many minutes you'd need to add to the sight.

@@SagebrushLongshots So are you saying that a ballistic calculator can be used for both riflescopes and for vernier sights to calculate moa?

@@dogbone1358 Estimate. There is no substitute for time behind the trigger.

What about the windage lines?

MOA is used loosely in this video and varies rifle to rifle for a number of reasons including barrel length. If I am understanding your questions correctly I would suggest zeroing your rifle at the range for the load you listed assuming it shoots well in your rifle. We typically further dial in our rifles by adjusting the front sight for both height and windage so elevation zero's at 50 yards at the lowest staff setting possible (that may be above 0) and the windage POI is centered on the rear vernier. Once a zero for a known distance has been determined you can use a balistics calculator to get pretty close at other yardages. For example if you zeroed your rifle with that load at 100 yards. I would guess you would need 15 "MOA" added to that setting to be zero's at 200 yards. For 300 you'd need about 16 more (31 total above the 100 yard zero). For 400 you'd need about 50 total above the 100 yard zero... etc. Without knowing the specifics such as BC, velocity, which sight you have and how it is delineated, etc. a guess is as good as I could do and even then would need to verified on the range.

Some Ballistic Calculators will give you an approximation from a known zero. Example: Your 100 yard zero is 75 MOA on the sight. Plug in 200 yard zero to the calculator and see how high you would be at 100 yards, say 6" high. Dialing 81 MOA (75 +6) on your sight staff should get you close. Plug in 300 zero, read how high it would be at 100 - say it's 35, add that to 75 MOA (the 100 yard zero) and dial in 110 on the sight. Should be close enough to dial it in on paper or steel. There is no substitute for actual range time.

Minutes of angle would depend on the load, front sight height and distance between the front and rear sights. Once a zero at a given distance is known and the BC and velocity of the load one can calculate the difference in MOA at various distances.

Some sights have windage on the peep or the base. Those that don't require windage be set with the front sight.

If you know the velocity, weight, BC and caliber, a ballistic calculator will save you some ammo and get you close. Dialing it will require range time. Other factors will also affect POI such as wind, altitude, direction, temperature... Lets just say using your 100 yard zero of 114 moa and assuming your load is a 45 caliber 405 gr cast bullet traveling 1200 fps at the muzzle. A 200 yard zero will require adding about 14 (128) MOA to the staff. You'd need 30 MOA (144) for 300 and 44 MOA (158) for 400. Having no idea what load you are using I just pulled these numbers out of thin air for clarification. Also note that the graduations on the staff may or may not be MOA. On Vernier sights it is often close but not exact. There is no substitute for range time. Best Regards.

Just guessing. +6-10 for 200. +25-35 for 300. +45-60 for 400... 1500 fps w/ 500 gr would be a stout load. We're mostly lobbing them out there between 1200-1300.

Thanks Rocky.

Ok got it now,

Hey there Z man - Asking and answering here may help others with the same or similar questions. Let'r rip and I'll see if I can help. Pecos

Pecos Trail alrighty, I saw your video with you shooting at a target at 600 yards. I noticed your ammo and I'm wondering what you shoot? Is it a cast bullet? If so do you cast them yourself? What is the bullet mold specs? What powder and how many grains do you load your rounds with? I have a shiloh sharps rifle on order chambered in 45-70. I'm looking at reloading and casting my own rounds. And since it looks like you've pretty much got it dialed in, I'd like to ride a little on your coat tails if possible. If you could help I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

Hey there Z man -- I do cast bullets for a lot of my loads in all types of rifles. I also use commercial bullets when they are available and fit the accuracy perimeters. The heaviest bullet I use in the Sharps rifles comes from a Lyman 457671 mold. You can get the specs off the Lyman website. I also frequently use Oregon Trail 300, 350 and 405 grain bullets. Powder charges will show different accuracy from one rifle to the next. You will have to do some load development to find what your rifle likes. The Lyman manuals are a good choice to start your journey. I'm fond of IMR4198 and Unique for powder. www.gmdr.com is also a good source for load data. Hope this helps. Pecos

And Z man -- Look to the Trapdoor Springfield levels loads to get started. They offer fine accuracy as well as range. You don't need to beat yourself to a pulp. Pecos